Not that I'm defending him, but there is a possibility that whomever handed him the gun pulled the trigger (perhaps to prove the gun was empty, even though it was not) and the gun 'hangfired' which is when the gunpowder, usually due to poor quality, doesn't ignite until up to 30-40 seconds later.
I have a friend who was a member of SWAT and now is the range master in a large city. Whenever there is an accidental firearms discharge he is on the investigation team. He said they all say “it just went off.”
He takes the gun, sits it on the table with the officer in question in the room and quietly stares at it for a painfully long time. He walks around it slowly and keeps staring at it asking if this is the firearm in question. He tells the officer they are going to wait together to see if it goes off. Lol
They all eventually amend their story on why the accidental discharge really happened.
(12-01-2021 04:27 PM)Bill Wrote: Not that I'm defending him, but there is a possibility that whomever handed him the gun pulled the trigger (perhaps to prove the gun was empty, even though it was not) and the gun 'hangfired' which is when the gunpowder, usually due to poor quality, doesn't ignite until up to 30-40 seconds later.
Colt single actions don't have a transfer bar safety. As rare as a hang fire is it is more likely that if the trigger wasn't pulled the hammer was being cocked and slipped forward and struck the primer. The half **** notch is worn down and doesn't catch the hammer if it is moving forward with force on slicked up a lot of fan fire / slicked up race guns.
I don't know if they have released the details on the gun (do the safety notch and half **** notch work), how many holes were loaded (5 or 6), etc but that will have a lot to do with what happened if the gun wasn't manually cocked and the trigger pulled. If the gun was loaded with 6 and the firing pin was sitting on the primer of a live round almost any bump to the gun could have set it off.
(12-01-2021 04:27 PM)Bill Wrote: Not that I'm defending him, but there is a possibility that whomever handed him the gun pulled the trigger (perhaps to prove the gun was empty, even though it was not) and the gun 'hangfired' which is when the gunpowder, usually due to poor quality, doesn't ignite until up to 30-40 seconds later.
Colt single actions don't have a transfer bar safety. As rare as a hang fire is it is more likely that if the trigger wasn't pulled the hammer was being cocked and slipped forward and struck the primer. The half **** notch is worn down and doesn't catch the hammer if it is moving forward with force on slicked up a lot of fan fire / slicked up race guns.
I don't know if they have released the details on the gun (do the safety notch and half **** notch work), how many holes were loaded (5 or 6), etc but that will have a lot to do with what happened if the gun wasn't manually cocked and the trigger pulled. If the gun was loaded with 6 and the firing pin was sitting on the primer of a live round almost any bump to the gun could have set it off.
(12-01-2021 05:47 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote: He's an actor with years of practice showing emotion don't believe for a minute he's terribly guilt stricken
First thing I thought...
He plays roles for a living, so much so actually make people believe exactly what he's portraying.
(12-01-2021 04:27 PM)Bill Wrote: Not that I'm defending him, but there is a possibility that whomever handed him the gun pulled the trigger (perhaps to prove the gun was empty, even though it was not) and the gun 'hangfired' which is when the gunpowder, usually due to poor quality, doesn't ignite until up to 30-40 seconds later.
Colt single actions don't have a transfer bar safety. As rare as a hang fire is it is more likely that if the trigger wasn't pulled the hammer was being cocked and slipped forward and struck the primer. The half **** notch is worn down and doesn't catch the hammer if it is moving forward with force on slicked up a lot of fan fire / slicked up race guns.
I don't know if they have released the details on the gun (do the safety notch and half **** notch work), how many holes were loaded (5 or 6), etc but that will have a lot to do with what happened if the gun wasn't manually cocked and the trigger pulled. If the gun was loaded with 6 and the firing pin was sitting on the primer of a live round almost any bump to the gun could have set it off.
BS
How much experience do you have with antique colt single action revolvers?
You load 5 and put the hammer down on an empty chamber for a reason. The hammer mounted firing pin is ridding on the primer if you load 6 and put the hammer down, or if you leave it 1/4 cocked the only thing between the gun and going off is the tiny sear that is normally worn down in slicked up cowboy action guns that are set up to fan fire.
Any kinetic impact to the hammer is carried directly to the firing pin and primer if you put the hammer down on a live round.
Nope Billy Boy, YOU did it. You killed that woman. Whether it was a hangfire or any other plausible malfunction, YOU chose to point the gun at the person and you violated the basic rules of firearm safety. YOU wouldv'e known that had you educated yourself rather than being an anti-gun prick.
You treat every gun as loaded. You know your intended target and what is behind it. You do not point the gun unless you intend to use it. You failed spectacularly on all three of these rules and as a result, someone is dead and someone else injured. That is the bottom line.
(12-02-2021 10:22 AM)No2rdame Wrote: Nope Billy Boy, YOU did it. You killed that woman. Whether it was a hangfire or any other plausible malfunction, YOU chose to point the gun at the person and you violated the basic rules of firearm safety. YOU wouldv'e known that had you educated yourself rather than being an anti-gun prick.
You treat every gun as loaded. You know your intended target and what is behind it. You do not point the gun unless you intend to use it. You failed spectacularly on all three of these rules and as a result, someone is dead and someone else injured. That is the bottom line.
^^ End of discussion.
I move that any movie star that has issues with firearms, their owners, or express anti- 2A comments in real life shouldn't portray a character on the silver screen that has anything to do with firearms.
There were three people in the church. Two were standing across the room from Baldwin who was handling the gun. Are we suppose to believe Beetlejuice showed up and pulled the trigger?
(12-01-2021 05:36 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I have a friend who was a member of SWAT and now is the range master in a large city. Whenever there is an accidental firearms discharge he is on the investigation team. He said they all say “it just went off.”
He takes the gun, sits it on the table with the officer in question in the room and quietly stares at it for a painfully long time. He walks around it slowly and keeps staring at it asking if this is the firearm in question. He tells the officer they are going to wait together to see if it goes off. Lol
They all eventually amend their story on why the accidental discharge really happened.
I love this story. Everybody knows that guns don’t fire themselves. Your friend has a good way of driving the point home.
(12-02-2021 12:16 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote: There were three people in the church. Two were standing across the room from Baldwin who was handling the gun. Are we suppose to believe Beetlejuice showed up and pulled the trigger?
what fk'rs need to realize is OSHA isn't involved in hollywood scripts ... chew on that fk'r, too...
too many are stupid ... wtf did ya think would happen 'shooting through a guise'....
I find it amusing focusing on the result vs. causality...
Quote:Alec Baldwin is speaking out more about what happened on the set of “Rust”. According to the announcement article by ABC News,
Actor Alec Baldwin told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos in an exclusive interview that he had “no idea” how a live bullet got onto the set of his film, “Rust,” but that he “didn’t pull the trigger” on the firearm that killed one person and wounded another.
“I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger at them, never,” Baldwin told Stephanopoulos in an upcoming interview that will air tonight.
I get the emotion of Mr. Baldwin’s statements. I don’t believe he meant to shoot anyone, and I believe the incident was an accident. But the events of October 21st in New Mexico clearly say otherwise with regards to his new assertion that he didn’t cause the gun to fire.
I do agree that several other contributing factors remain questions of the investigation. How did a live round get on the set of the “Rust” movie production? How that piece of ammunition meandered its way through the checks and balances procedures of the entertainment industry to get into the chamber of the gun in Baldwin’s hands in the moment he fired the fatal shot that ended the life of Halyna Hutchins, and wounded Joel Souza remains shrouded in the police investigation. That’s more of a matter about how the management system of the “Rust” production company was or was not up to proper standards.
But the fact remains that somehow, the chain of failures did happen. There is also no doubt that at the final moment of the chain of failure, whatever Baldwin was doing to manipulate the firearm in his hand were indeed actions that caused its firing pin to strike the primer of a live round as the single-action revolver was pointed at something Mr. Baldwin did not intend to destroy. He was, in that moment, the final contributing failure in the chain of events that ended in a terrible workplace tragedy.
I’ve been around firearms for a long time and I’ve heard claims like this more than a few times. “I don’t know how it happened. I don’t remember doing anything wrong. The gun just went off.”
I’ve heard it most surrounding tension-filled circumstances where guns were drawn and pointed at people, and somehow, someone’s finger found its way onto the trigger with enough pressure to activate it and discharge the firearm, often to the surprise and dismay of the person holding the weapon.
That’s kind of the thing about negligent discharge incidents. The person never suspects that they are doing something wrong until it happens. And it is often difficult for them to accept that their actions played a part in the chain of events that led up to the accident.
The sequence of safety failures may be a complex chain of events, but each link in the chain is an avoidable failure. Alec Baldwin’s final action was one of those failure steps. Like all other industrial accidents, it would not have occurred if just one person in the complex sequence of failures had not made their individual contributing mistake.
Antique Weapons Have Peculiarities
So, what mistake do I think Alec Baldwin could have made in that moment? For arguments sake, let’s take it a face value that he didn’t consciously press the trigger of the firearm he had in his hand. Could he really have unconsciously released it? The answer is yes.
The firearm in Mr. Baldwin’s possession that day was a single action revolver. As the accompanying video explains, this type of firearm appeared in the mid-19th century. The design of the system is an early one in the evolution of repeating firearms. In the hands of someone using it in a manner it was not designed to be, it is known to be able to fire a manner where a user might think he or she hadn’t “pulled the trigger” when in fact they had indeed already inadvertently bypassed the fire control function of the trigger and its sear.
A single-action revolver shooting technique called “fanning the hammer” does exist. The technique involves bypassing the trigger by holding the handgun in a manner that the trigger is already pressed. The shooter then “fans” the hammer by pulling it back and letting it go manually. On this type of revolver, the action will rotate the cylinder bringing a new chamber that might contain a live round into the battery. When the hammer is released, it drops the firing pin onto whatever is in the chamber. If there is a live round in it, it will set off the primer thus firing the gun.
Quickdraw trick shooters use this technique to draw and fire these single-action revolvers at sub-second speeds.
I made this YouTube video to explain the technique.
If Mr. Baldwin was using a similar technique to manipulate what he thought was a “cold gun” in his hands on that fateful day for theatrical imagery reasons, each time he “fanned the hammer,” he would have been advancing the cylinder with the live round in it one step closer to igniting. With a six-shot single action revolver, you can get lucky a maximum of five times before you’ve dropped the hammer on every chamber in the firearm.
Alec Baldwin didn’t have to consciously “pull the trigger” to fire the gun in his hand. He may have already activated it because he could have already been holding and operating it a fashion where the trigger had already been pressed.
Violations of Industry Policy and Procedure
As noted in my colleague Nick Arama’s breaking news article, “Alec Baldwin Makes Stunning Claim About the Shooting on ‘Rust’ Movie Set”, Baldwin is separately facing a lawsuit by “Rust” script supervisor Mamie Mitchell that his action to **** and fire the revolver was not part of the script.
Such deviations from the plan are frowned upon in the entertainment industry because they are known pathways to industrial accidents. This was noted in my hour-long video interview with experienced Hollywood armorer Clay Van Sickle published on November 10 on Red State, “EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: ‘Top Shot’ Armorer Discusses ‘Rust’ Shooting and Alec Baldwin’s Police Proposal”.
In the industry, even tiny changes to danger-laden production elements such as those involving firearms and physical stunts are supposed to be carefully worked through by a team of professionals who examine the details of the proposed changes and mitigate the risks. According to Van Sickle, in the ideal, there should be no ad hoc when it comes to such matters. Mitchell’s legal complaint is consistent with this.
The fact remains that Mr. Baldwin was not just an actor working for the film, but also a producer with responsibilities pertaining to the proper management of the film. We’ll see how that question of responsibility and culpability comes up when the interview airs.
Baldwin is just trying to make himself the victim.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2021 12:31 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
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