(10-27-2021 09:35 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think CUSA has to be careful about this. It will have difficulty lining up the FBS minimum of at least eight schools that are full members of the conference if it allows too many potential additions to decide for themselves whether they would prefer to join for football only.

Right — the league can’t even continue as an FBS conference if they have fewer than 8 full members that play FBS football in the league! Thus it would be a huge mistake to let any current or potential members at this time choose to play football only in CUSA. Members have to be all-in or all-out. Maybe at some point in the future after the FBS status has become rock-solid, the conference could then vote on whether to permit a full member to move to FB-only status.

(10-27-2021 07:40 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 01:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Plus, North Dakota was in the Big Sky before, and when North Dakota decided to leave, the Big Sky made no attempt to try to change the president of North Dakota's mind. In fact, I believe they encouraged it!!!

That was an interesting situation. The Big Sky commish at the time wanted to kill the Summit and get NDSU & SDSU to join the Big Sky. The conference had a chance to get them both back when they moved up to DI, but he couldn't get unanimous agreement from the presidents(probably cost/travel issues from the west coast schools).

After the clear successes of the xDSUs, the Big Sky presidents now wanted them, but both were comfortable in the Summit/MVFC. The only way to get them was to destabilize the Summit. So the Big Sky poached SUU right around the time a couple other schools left the Summit. Then the Big Sky also went after the Summit's two expansion candidates, UND & USD. UND said yes and signed immediately, while USD said yes but said they needed a few days to get approval from their political overlords.

During that brief window of time, the presidents of NDSU & SDSU, plus the commissioners of the MVFC and Summit, got on the phone with the presidents of the MVFC schools to get USD a spot. The presidents saw what the Big Sky was trying to do and got USD to back out of the verbal agreement. So instead of eventually getting all 4 Dakota schools and creating a 16-team FCS superconference, the Big Sky was left with only UND way out on an island. After it was clear the plan had blown up in their faces, there were only too happy to see UND eventually leave.

It was fascinating to watch as it happen; all in the course of only a couple days.

Ah yes, the good old days under Doug Foolerton. Don't leave out that stellar UNC add. At least we'll be rid of the SUU add in a few months.

(10-28-2021 12:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 09:35 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think CUSA has to be careful about this. It will have difficulty lining up the FBS minimum of at least eight schools that are full members of the conference if it allows too many potential additions to decide for themselves whether they would prefer to join for football only.

Right — the league can’t even continue as an FBS conference if they have fewer than 8 full members that play FBS football in the league! Thus it would be a huge mistake to let any current or potential members at this time choose to play football only in CUSA. Members have to be all-in or all-out. Maybe at some point in the future after the FBS status has become rock-solid, the conference could then vote on whether to permit a full member to move to FB-only status.

The NCAA allows conferences the right to alter their football-sponsoring membership if they increase their All-Female Sports sponsored.

The NCAA as a general rule allows 8 FBS sponsoring members if there are 8 All-Female Sports sponsored and represented in the league. However, a league is allowed to have either 7 FBS members with the league sponsoring and representing 9 All-Female Sports or at VERY minimum 6 FBS members with the league sponsoring and representing 10 All-Female sports.

Go read Bylaw 20.02.6 in the NCAA Division I Manual, and then come back here and tell us what it says.

(10-28-2021 12:15 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-28-2021 12:10 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 11:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 09:35 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I think CUSA has to be careful about this. It will have difficulty lining up the FBS minimum of at least eight schools that are full members of the conference if it allows too many potential additions to decide for themselves whether they would prefer to join for football only.

Right — the league can’t even continue as an FBS conference if they have fewer than 8 full members that play FBS football in the league! Thus it would be a huge mistake to let any current or potential members at this time choose to play football only in CUSA. Members have to be all-in or all-out. Maybe at some point in the future after the FBS status has become rock-solid, the conference could then vote on whether to permit a full member to move to FB-only status.

The NCAA allows conferences the right to alter their football-sponsoring membership if they increase their All-Female Sports sponsored.

The NCAA as a general rule allows 8 FBS sponsoring members if there are 8 All-Female Sports sponsored and represented in the league. However, a league is allowed to have either 7 FBS members with the league sponsoring and representing 9 All-Female Sports or at VERY minimum 6 FBS members with the league sponsoring and representing 10 All-Female sports.

Go read Bylaw 20.02.6 in the NCAA Division I Manual, and then come back here and tell us what it says.

I tried looking for that. I was reading it wrong. I didn't mean to offend. I was looking at the sport requirements per school, not per conference. My apologies.

20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference
shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An
institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the
conference schedule in at least six men's and eight women's conference-sponsored sports, including men's basketball and football
and three women's team sports, including women's basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable
NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.1 Exception. A Football Bowl Subdivision member institution shall be permitted to count as one of its required
six men's sports and one of its required eight women's sports a sport in which its conference does not sponsor or conduct a
championship, provided the sport is one in which it participates in another Division I multisport or single-sport conference.
Different sports may be counted for men and women. (Adopted: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.2 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two
years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or
more of its member's failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective
8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

Right now they are in danger of being neither an FBS conference nor a Multisport core conference that gets an auto bid to basketball

If they truly cannot get back to 8 for FBS, they will need to focus on getting 7 core schools that want to play basketball and other sports together.

This may mean letting UTEP go to the WAC with a football membership guarantee so the thought of El Paso for non revenue spots doesnt scare off any members.

(10-28-2021 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Right now they are in danger of being neither an FBS conference nor a Multisport core conference that gets an auto bid to basketball

If they truly cannot get back to 8 for FBS, they will need to focus on getting 7 core schools that want to play basketball and other sports together.

This may mean letting UTEP go to the WAC with a football membership guarantee so the thought of El Paso for non revenue spots doesnt scare off any members.

That would not make sense. If they are giving up FBS why would UTEP want to be in CUSA?

(10-28-2021 12:18 AM)All4One Wrote:  I tried looking for that. I was reading it wrong. I didn't mean to offend. I was looking at the sport requirements per school, not per conference. My apologies.

Too often the attitude in this situation is something less than humble and appropriate. Good on you.

(10-28-2021 02:39 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(10-28-2021 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Right now they are in danger of being neither an FBS conference nor a Multisport core conference that gets an auto bid to basketball

If they truly cannot get back to 8 for FBS, they will need to focus on getting 7 core schools that want to play basketball and other sports together.

This may mean letting UTEP go to the WAC with a football membership guarantee so the thought of El Paso for non revenue spots doesnt scare off any members.

That would not make sense. If they are giving up FBS why would UTEP want to be in CUSA?

I *think* thier logic is "UTEP is too far away from prospective schools that would be turned off at the idea of flying those non-football teams to El Paso. So keep UTEP in C-USA for football and get 1 more full member from elsewhere"

I still say this is your best option:

WEST
NDSU / SDSU / UTEP / NMSU / MO St / LA Tech
EAST
IL St / IN St / YSU / WKU / MT / FIU

All you would need to do is get IN St to put some bleachers on the visitor's side and the conference would be set to go.

Kick FIU's all sports to the ASUN and choose your best basketball option for #12

NDSU / SDSU
UTEP / NMSU
LA Tech / (UTA, LR, UNO, ORU)
MO St / IL St
IN St / YSU
WKU / MT

CUSA basketball would be dramatically improved with this line-up.

(10-28-2021 03:06 PM)ChooChoo Wrote:  

I still say this is your best option:

WEST
NDSU / SDSU / UTEP / NMSU / MO St / LA Tech
EAST
IL St / IN St / YSU / WKU / MT / FIU

All you would need to do is get IN St to put some bleachers on the visitor's side and the conference would be set to go.

Kick FIU's all sports to the ASUN and choose your best basketball option for #12

NDSU / SDSU
UTEP / NMSU
LA Tech / (UTA, LR, UNO, ORU)
MO St / IL St
IN St / YSU
WKU / MT

CUSA basketball would be dramatically improved with this line-up.

Solid.

No suggestion with Indiana St - which operates on a OVC-level athletic budget with declining enrollment in a tiny market where one half of its stadium is nothing but grass - would be taken seriously by university presidents. Indiana St might not crack a top-40 FBS expansion list.

Youngstown St isn’t as unrealistic as Indiana St, but they’re a massive longshot as well.

(10-28-2021 03:13 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(10-28-2021 03:06 PM)ChooChoo Wrote:  

I still say this is your best option:

WEST
NDSU / SDSU / UTEP / NMSU / MO St / LA Tech
EAST
IL St / IN St / YSU / WKU / MT / FIU

All you would need to do is get IN St to put some bleachers on the visitor's side and the conference would be set to go.

Kick FIU's all sports to the ASUN and choose your best basketball option for #12

NDSU / SDSU
UTEP / NMSU
LA Tech / (UTA, LR, UNO, ORU)
MO St / IL St
IN St / YSU
WKU / MT

CUSA basketball would be dramatically improved with this line-up.

Solid.

This is a total non-starter for people who work with college budgets (or have background knowledge on Indiana St).

(10-28-2021 03:15 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  No suggestion with Indiana St - which operates on a OVC-level athletic budget with declining enrollment in a tiny market where one half of its stadium is nothing but grass - would be taken seriously by university presidents. Indiana St might not crack a top-40 FBS expansion list.

Youngstown St isn’t as unrealistic as Indiana St, but they’re a massive longshot as well.

I would sub SIU for the Sycamores. From a Missouri State travel standpoint, SEMO instead of Youngstown would be better as well. I don't think the Redhawks are there yet, the Show Me Center is a nice basketball venue and I have read they are renovating Houck Stadium.

(10-28-2021 03:25 PM)JohnGoodmanMSU Wrote:  

(10-28-2021 03:15 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  No suggestion with Indiana St - which operates on a OVC-level athletic budget with declining enrollment in a tiny market where one half of its stadium is nothing but grass - would be taken seriously by university presidents. Indiana St might not crack a top-40 FBS expansion list.

Youngstown St isn’t as unrealistic as Indiana St, but they’re a massive longshot as well.

I would sub SIU for the Sycamores. From a Missouri State travel standpoint, SEMO instead of Youngstown would be better as well. I don't think the Redhawks are there yet, the Show Me Center is a nice basketball venue and I have read they are renovating Houck Stadium.

SEMO has the 303rd athletic budget, which isn't in the realm of possibility.

SIU is clinging to an okay-ish athletic budget (184), but their full-time undergraduate enrollment has been cut almost in half from 15 years ago. The region is declining and poor economically, and the school is facing a dwindling budget every year. I've heard they're about to cut their athletic budget by 15%.

Schools like UNI, Indiana St, & Youngstown St are in the 247-252 range for athletic budgets, with enrollment and area population stagnant or on the decline. They're not feasible.

IMHO FCS candidates should be:
1. NDSU
2. SDSU
3. SHSU
4. MoSU
5. IliSU?
6. ?

Yeah, I know the schools CUSA is talking to, and Youngstown State and Indiana State are...not on that hot board.

Terre Haute is a big tv market. Indiana State needs a change of scenery to get noticed. Indiana State would be a media market.
Youngstown State is also a tv market.
UCA is in the Little Rock Metro for that tv market.
Chattanooga is a tv market wise.

There are still untapped tv markets that are still to get at the FCS, non-football schools who have expressed interest in adding footbal, Dayton want to get into something new, and D2 schools like Colorado Mesa, Midwestern State, West Texas A&M, Central Oklahoma, and so forth.

(10-28-2021 04:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Terre Haute is a big tv market. Indiana State needs a change of scenery to get noticed. Indiana State would be a media market.
Youngstown State is also a tv market.
UCA is in the Little Rock Metro for that tv market.
Chattanooga is a tv market wise.

Terre Haute is a big tv market if a network executive's target audience is exclusively inmates on death row.

(10-27-2021 11:52 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 07:40 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 01:09 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Plus, North Dakota was in the Big Sky before, and when North Dakota decided to leave, the Big Sky made no attempt to try to change the president of North Dakota's mind. In fact, I believe they encouraged it!!!

That was an interesting situation. The Big Sky commish at the time wanted to kill the Summit and get NDSU & SDSU to join the Big Sky. The conference had a chance to get them both back when they moved up to DI, but he couldn't get unanimous agreement from the presidents(probably cost/travel issues from the west coast schools).

After the clear successes of the xDSUs, the Big Sky presidents now wanted them, but both were comfortable in the Summit/MVFC. The only way to get them was to destabilize the Summit. So the Big Sky poached SUU right around the time a couple other schools left the Summit. Then the Big Sky also went after the Summit's two expansion candidates, UND & USD. UND said yes and signed immediately, while USD said yes but said they needed a few days to get approval from their political overlords.

During that brief window of time, the presidents of NDSU & SDSU, plus the commissioners of the MVFC and Summit, got on the phone with the presidents of the MVFC schools to get USD a spot. The presidents saw what the Big Sky was trying to do and got USD to back out of the verbal agreement. So instead of eventually getting all 4 Dakota schools and creating a 16-team FCS superconference, the Big Sky was left with only UND way out on an island. After it was clear the plan had blown up in their faces, there were only too happy to see UND eventually leave.

It was fascinating to watch as it happen; all in the course of only a couple days.

Ah yes, the good old days under Doug Foolerton. Don't leave out that stellar UNC add. At least we'll be rid of the SUU add in a few months.

Ha ha. Foolerton. I'd forgotten about that name. Unfortunately, I haven't forgotten about him. Enemy of all things WAC!