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(10-27-2021 06:25 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 04:05 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  I'll throw this out there, and dodge the tomatoes. I'll go to my grave thinking Ben Bryant would have been the better QB for this team. I know I'm probably the only one who thinks that, and I am ok with that. Dez misses soo many open receivers. I'm not here to bang on Dez though. He's good, especially when his handcuffs are off. Although I think he's somewhat a product of what is around him. This roster is loaded. He's a good leader, the team loves him, and seems to be a great guy too. He is a great Bearcat and representative of Cincinnati. It's hard to nit pick a coach and team that is #2 in the country.

Ben's current numbers;
STATS CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG RTG
2021 149 216 69.0 1,836 8.5 10 4 54 152.0

I know it's the MAC, but he's no slouch.

I'm going to try to make this my last post because I don't want to beat a dead horse but I do want to emphasize when Navy has the ball with a chance to win that means you needed more from your team. I really don't understand "we didn't need Des to run to beat Navy". In a one score game you need your best and Des' legs is his best.

Re Bryant: we'll never know. We saw Ben play one game here and he made some good throws and threw some picks too. It's hard to compare one start vs. 40+ Des starts. My guess is if you wanted to run an offense that doesn't allow QB runs Ben may have been the better prospect but if we had the Des that was a top 10 runner in 19-20 we're not having this discussion. We wanted Des to improve from mediocre to average passing while continuing to be a threat with his legs; not instead of using his legs. This is literally the power post player who develops a jumper ignoring what made him great in the first place.

We know this staff has always been all in on Des as a team leader. Luke even mentioned in 2019 when Des' injury had him throwing around 100 yards a game that they probably should have pulled him before the Memphis game. Had he gotten a couple more games who know what that looks like and then when they opened up the competition in the next offseason maybe Ben plays with more confidence if he's had 3-4 games under his belt. I think a lot of times when it's close the staff always goes with experience so if you're one year behind a similar level prospect it's tough to ever break through.

You mention 2019, with the good and bad, as if they are separate instances. The good running Dez created the Dez that couldn't throw. He really doesn't have the size to take all of the hits. That's his deal. He's too small to be a runner, and not a good enough thrower to be a pocket passer.

If Dez goes down, the playoffs are out. Not because UC can't win. But because it will have the Kenyon Martin effect. UC should have been a 1 seed that year, but they were bumped because the personnel changed. I think the same thing would happen here.

I think the answer is, there isn't a good answer. They are doing, it probably the way I would do it. With past history, I don't think they can just let it rip.

Put me in the camp that feels Des is not running the ball enough. Whether its by design or Des is playing cautious, UC has lost its biggest weapon. And without running Des, UC is forcing him to do what he does the worst, throw with accuracy.

I think people are being really harsh on Des's accuracy. Des has become a very accurate QB. Des does at times have a tendency to sail some intermediate routes, but his downfield passing has been mostly exceptional this year and he's been mostly great about getting the ball out and on time to the right receiver with accuracy. UC's offense is not one of those college offenses that picks up cheap yards with a lot of dinking and dunking that inflates QB accuracy numbers.

As to Des running, I'm mostly pleased with UC's offensive gameplans this year and don't mind their keeping that to a minimal. However, I do think it is a huge missing piece we're going to need if we make the playoffs. I do wish they'd use it a little the couple times he's had a slow start this year. I felt like after the QB draw call against IU he got his rhythm and the entire offense opened up. I think it's something that can be used a bit more when the game is in doubt, but I understand the reluctance and given how great the offense has mostly been this year it is hard to really fault them.

His recently attempted 2 yard pass to Whyle(?) As he was rolling out was a prime example of an instance where he should have just used his blocker and taken the yards available.

(10-27-2021 08:57 AM)Bearcat419 Wrote:  His recently attempted 2 yard pass to Whyle(?) As he was rolling out was a prime example of an instance where he should have just used his blocker and taken the yards available.

This was going to be my point too. A couple times last week he was running two yards behind a guy in a roll out and should have just tucked it and followed - but instead tried to pass it to him like it was a hot potato. Both times the receivers looked at him like "wtf are you doing?". Both dangerous/scary plays. This tells me he has definitely been told not to run.

This thread is why we can’t have nice things.

Des comp% last 5 games:

IU 56%
ND 59%
Temple 76%
UCF 56%
Navy 60%

Compared to CJ Stroud last 5 games:

Oregon 64%
Tulsa 60%
Rutgers 73%
Maryland 72%
Indiana 75%

(10-26-2021 07:15 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Two things. One, I agree with rath. I think the running plays are more situational calls this year. You have to ask yourself as the staff - do we run him against the dregs on the schedule at the risk of an injury or save him for a game like Notre Dame, SMU, the Chip game and the NY6/CFP? That game clinching end around run against ND looked pretty damn good - iconic in Bearcats Sports Lore History if you ask me. This decision is made easier with the emergence of Ford. We haven't had a back like Ford in a long time. Mike Warren was a beast at getting the tough yard but he was a tad slow against good defenders. JF can take it to the house against anyone at any point in the game. Ask Georgia. Ford has also shown durability. Running takes a pounding on your body and Rid is still on the slim side. That said, Rid's rushing yards are down for sure but he has 3 TDs through 7 games. There's still potentially 7 games remaining.

Second, Rid worked on his passing game big time during the off season. His passing numbers this year project as the best season of his four. He has an assortment of weapons to throw too unlike any from previous years talent and depth-wise. I know we all lament a few of his throws per game but he's still shown improvement on that side of the ball this year.

I've changed my tune on his running attempts per game since the beginning of the year. Situational is fine. Persistent is troubling with so much on the line right now.

Ridder's run attempts per game (not counting sacks, but counting broken pass plays):

13.7 - 2018 Big Games (P5 + ranked opponents)
10.8 - 2018 other games

9.7 - 2019 Big Games (P5 + ranked opponents + Temple)
8.3 - 2019 other games

9.4 - 2020 Big Games (P5 + ranked opponents + UCF)
6.6 - 2020 other games

2021 season:
4 - Miami
2 - Murray St
8 - Indiana
9 - Notre Dame
2 - Temple
3 - UCF
4 - Navy

Offhand, I'd say that means that against big opponents (IU & ND), Ridder is running more in line with his numbers in past years.

He's just holding back against teams that we should easily beat.

(10-27-2021 09:24 AM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Des comp% last 5 games:

IU 56%
ND 59%
Temple 76%
UCF 56%
Navy 60%

Compared to CJ Stroud last 5 games:

Oregon 64%
Tulsa 60%
Rutgers 73%
Maryland 72%
Indiana 75%

This is why I wish the advanced metric guys would come up with an accuracy rating rather than flat Completion percentage...something that factors out drops in clear catch scenarios and how many completions were made by an individual effort by the receiver instead of the throw by the QB. I would venture that in the last few games there have been between 3-5 drops for Des each, now, there have also been some pretty interesting throws that were made into completions by great efforts from the receiver as well. Would be a really cool stat to try to develop honestly.

Our coaching staff completely whiffed on Stroud's recruitment.

(10-27-2021 09:24 AM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Des comp% last 5 games:

IU 56%
ND 59%
Temple 76%
UCF 56%
Navy 60%

Compared to CJ Stroud last 5 games:

Oregon 64%
Tulsa 60%
Rutgers 73%
Maryland 72%
Indiana 75%

(10-27-2021 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  [quote='Cat-Man' pid='17783923' dateline='1635344691']


This is why I wish the advanced metric guys would come up with an accuracy rating rather than flat Completion percentage...something that factors out drops in clear catch scenarios and how many completions were made by an individual effort by the receiver instead of the throw by the QB. I would venture that in the last few games there have been between 3-5 drops for Des each, now, there have also been some pretty interesting throws that were made into completions by great efforts from the receiver as well. Would be a really cool stat to try to develop honestly.

To drill down farther-- there are catches, and catches. By that I mean- there are balls thrown where the receiver catches it, but has to wait for it, or the ball is behind him-- and then there are catches where the player catches it in stride and can get YAC. There are 2 different types of completions. On target to where they get YAC, and just completions where bc the ball wasn't accurate enough-- no YAC was available.

I'm 98% sure, that the top NFL teams have the analytics department that tracks every pass by college QB's. I mean MLB teams can track every batted ball by hitters, I would be shocked if NFL teams didn't have information on every throw by QB (in the NFL and of course the college QB's they are scouting.)

How many times have we seen a QB throw it late, or just behind a WR, when if it was on target, it would have been a catch and a TD, vs just a catch.

Honestly, it would be great information to have to help your QB improve on some throws. Which throws are they more accurate in and why. Which throws are inaccurate- and what can be improved? Just think BAsketball. You have those charts which show the players shooting % from basically every spot on the court. Players just shoot better from certain spots-- QB's are no different-- certain passes they are just better at.

(10-27-2021 10:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  [quote='UCGrad1992' pid='17782463' dateline='1635293702']


2021 season:
4 - Miami
2 - Murray St
8 - Indiana
9 - Notre Dame
2 - Temple
3 - UCF
4 - Navy

Offhand, I'd say that means that against big opponents (IU & ND), Ridder is running more in line with his numbers in past years.

He's just holding back against teams that we should easily beat.

Agree. With Prater being inexperienced, the coaching staff is just being pragmatic as they know a Ridder injury severely affects the season. I expect the trend of just a handful of carries vs most teams to be the norm going forward. But in the AAC Championship game (hopefully,) and subsequent bowl game-- I expect to see more Ridder runs.

I just wish Ridder would run more often, early, just to keep the defense honest. TEams know he isn't going to carry the ball much- so, keep them on their toes and let him run 2-3 times early in the game, just so teams can't sit on Ford. Or at least do some play action, bc teams know the ball is going to Ford and Ridder isn't going to keep it. Teams aren't respecting the option.

(10-27-2021 07:35 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 06:25 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 04:05 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  I'll throw this out there, and dodge the tomatoes. I'll go to my grave thinking Ben Bryant would have been the better QB for this team. I know I'm probably the only one who thinks that, and I am ok with that. Dez misses soo many open receivers. I'm not here to bang on Dez though. He's good, especially when his handcuffs are off. Although I think he's somewhat a product of what is around him. This roster is loaded. He's a good leader, the team loves him, and seems to be a great guy too. He is a great Bearcat and representative of Cincinnati. It's hard to nit pick a coach and team that is #2 in the country.

Ben's current numbers;
STATS CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG RTG
2021 149 216 69.0 1,836 8.5 10 4 54 152.0

I know it's the MAC, but he's no slouch.

I'm going to try to make this my last post because I don't want to beat a dead horse but I do want to emphasize when Navy has the ball with a chance to win that means you needed more from your team. I really don't understand "we didn't need Des to run to beat Navy". In a one score game you need your best and Des' legs is his best.

Re Bryant: we'll never know. We saw Ben play one game here and he made some good throws and threw some picks too. It's hard to compare one start vs. 40+ Des starts. My guess is if you wanted to run an offense that doesn't allow QB runs Ben may have been the better prospect but if we had the Des that was a top 10 runner in 19-20 we're not having this discussion. We wanted Des to improve from mediocre to average passing while continuing to be a threat with his legs; not instead of using his legs. This is literally the power post player who develops a jumper ignoring what made him great in the first place.

We know this staff has always been all in on Des as a team leader. Luke even mentioned in 2019 when Des' injury had him throwing around 100 yards a game that they probably should have pulled him before the Memphis game. Had he gotten a couple more games who know what that looks like and then when they opened up the competition in the next offseason maybe Ben plays with more confidence if he's had 3-4 games under his belt. I think a lot of times when it's close the staff always goes with experience so if you're one year behind a similar level prospect it's tough to ever break through.

You mention 2019, with the good and bad, as if they are separate instances. The good running Dez created the Dez that couldn't throw. He really doesn't have the size to take all of the hits. That's his deal. He's too small to be a runner, and not a good enough thrower to be a pocket passer.

If Dez goes down, the playoffs are out. Not because UC can't win. But because it will have the Kenyon Martin effect. UC should have been a 1 seed that year, but they were bumped because the personnel changed. I think the same thing would happen here.

I think the answer is, there isn't a good answer. They are doing, it probably the way I would do it. With past history, I don't think they can just let it rip.

I agree with if Des goes down win or lose we won't make CFP based on perception from committee. But if he doesn't start running we're not going to make the CFP either. Got to go with risk. Let it fly...in this case...run.

(10-27-2021 10:09 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-26-2021 07:15 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Two things. One, I agree with rath. I think the running plays are more situational calls this year. You have to ask yourself as the staff - do we run him against the dregs on the schedule at the risk of an injury or save him for a game like Notre Dame, SMU, the Chip game and the NY6/CFP? That game clinching end around run against ND looked pretty damn good - iconic in Bearcats Sports Lore History if you ask me. This decision is made easier with the emergence of Ford. We haven't had a back like Ford in a long time. Mike Warren was a beast at getting the tough yard but he was a tad slow against good defenders. JF can take it to the house against anyone at any point in the game. Ask Georgia. Ford has also shown durability. Running takes a pounding on your body and Rid is still on the slim side. That said, Rid's rushing yards are down for sure but he has 3 TDs through 7 games. There's still potentially 7 games remaining.

Second, Rid worked on his passing game big time during the off season. His passing numbers this year project as the best season of his four. He has an assortment of weapons to throw too unlike any from previous years talent and depth-wise. I know we all lament a few of his throws per game but he's still shown improvement on that side of the ball this year.

I've changed my tune on his running attempts per game since the beginning of the year. Situational is fine. Persistent is troubling with so much on the line right now.

Ridder's run attempts per game (not counting sacks, but counting broken pass plays):

13.7 - 2018 Big Games (P5 + ranked opponents)
10.8 - 2018 other games

9.7 - 2019 Big Games (P5 + ranked opponents + Temple)
8.3 - 2019 other games

9.4 - 2020 Big Games (P5 + ranked opponents + UCF)
6.6 - 2020 other games

2021 season:
4 - Miami
2 - Murray St
8 - Indiana
9 - Notre Dame
2 - Temple
3 - UCF
4 - Navy

Offhand, I'd say that means that against big opponents (IU & ND), Ridder is running more in line with his numbers in past years.

He's just holding back against teams that we should easily beat.

I think this is a great post. One could argue that Des had a couple opportunities to run against Navy that would have helped the team, but outside of that why does Des need to take the risk and run against the other teams? The games were all out of hand early and there was no need for him to take those hits against teams like Temple, Miami and UCF.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. There's always room for growth and improvement. I'll just leave this here...

37-5 (.881)

The winningest active quarterback in college football.

(10-27-2021 09:24 AM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Des comp% last 5 games:

IU 56%
ND 59%
Temple 76%
UCF 56%
Navy 60%

Compared to CJ Stroud last 5 games:

Oregon 64%
Tulsa 60%
Rutgers 73%
Maryland 72%
Indiana 75%

This thread is about QB rushes right?

So how many times did O$U run Stroud this season? I have no idea but I'm gonna guess not very much.

Des is not the same threat w/o running the football. It makes sense to limit his carries against teams that are sub 500. Smu should get a good dose of "running Des."

(10-27-2021 04:26 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Everyone's entitled to their opinion. There's always room for growth and improvement. I'll just leave this here...

37-5 (.881)

The winningest active quarterback in college football.

2 of those 5 losses caused UC to missed out on a NY6 bowl.
1 of those 5 losses was a loss in a NY6 bowl.

As Kenyon Martin tattooed on his arm.....NEVER SATISFIED.

I think we can all agree we want Des to run the ball more, until he gets hurt. Then we start insisting that he shouldn't have been running the ball so much.

(10-26-2021 10:55 PM)geef Wrote:  I'm not convinced, 1992. It might be time to run Bryant out there an see what he can do.

Not to stray from the topic, but were you in the house for that incredible Timbers goal last night?