BYU is the no brainer #1 choice if the Big 12 goes west and the assumption is that there would be another western team to pair with them. I'm surprised to see that most mention Boise as the other partner so this thread is to compare those up for the #2 spot.

I'd assume many think Boise is much further east than it is when in reality is only 48 miles further east than San Diego.

Miles from Boise - San Diego
Ames 995 - 1248
Waco 1155 - 1018
Lawrence 982 - 1127
Manhattan 920 - 1070
Stillwater 987 - 1014
Fort Worth 1099 - 999
Lubbock 901 - 770
Morgantown 1630 - 1835
Total Miles 8669 - 9081
Average Trip 1083 - 1135
Difference -52 - +52

So SDSU is closer to the Texas schools and Boise is closer to everyone else. On average, Boise is 52 miles closer to the Big 12 schools which is a little more than 5 minutes of flight time.

The Mountain West wouldn’t even add Boise when their football program was at its peak until the conference was gutted by Utah, TCU and BYU leaving. I have a hard time believing Big 12 presidents are going to sign off on a former junior college. With that being said, here is how the schools vying for the #2 spot compare:

Boise State
USNWR University Ranking – #298-389. Its so high up there they just lump it together with a bunch of other schools.
Boise metro area population – 750,000
#102 Media Market
1.787 million total people in the state
2019 Football Attendance Average - 33,488 (capacity is 36,387)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 5,116 (capacity is 12,644 )

SDSU
USNWR University Ranking - #143
San Diego County is 3.4 million
#29 Media Market
2019 Football Attendance Average - 29,896 (new stadium under construction with 35,000 capacity and expandable to 40K)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 11,668 (capacity is 12,414).

Colorado State
USNWR University Ranking – #153
Fort Collins metro area is 310,000.
#106 Media Market.
Its 65 miles north of Denver and Nielsen does not include Fort Collins in the Denver Market DMA.
2019 Football Attendance Average – 23,338 (41,000 capacity in very new stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 3,532 (capacity is 8,745)

UNLV
USNWR University Ranking - #258
#39 Media Market
Las Vegas Metro area has 2.3 Million
2019 Football Attendance Average - 19,864 (now playing in Raiders 65K stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 8,218 (capacity is 17,923)

I'm biased but I think the #2 western spot goes to either SDSU or Colorado State. SDSU is the best school, is in the biggest media market, a trophy location, great recruiting grounds, new stadium being built, and has an incredibly high ceiling. Colorado State is a good school too and much closer to current Big 12 schools but its a tiny market and poor support despite being the only game in a college town. Vegas is really improving but they are now in a saturated sports market and are one of the nations worst football programs historically. Boise is a known football brand but has slid far from its 2012 football peak, is in a small market and has horrendous academics. Hopefully expansion doesn't drag on for years and this is settled in the short term.

I have been saying this all along.

Boise St is not a serious contender. Especially because geographically there are 3 other schools that are as good or BETTER...

Colorado St: location and academics are much better
UNLV: media market/destination
SDSU: academics and media market

And... Boise is not a direct flight. It is a pain in the ass to get to Boise. Vegas, San Diego and Denver area all direct flights from anywhere - meaning actual door to door time is better for them than for Boise in every case.

I would add UNLV as the western team - that gives the B12 the top 2 tourist destinations - Orlando and Vegas. That makes the B12 a national brand.

But... I'm guessing they stick with 12 for now and none of these will be added.

Doesn't make any sense to go west when there is more money and more viewers to be made by going east.

SDSU should have joined the AAC when they had the invite. They would be in a much better position today.

(08-27-2021 01:51 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  BYU is the no brainer #1 choice if the Big 12 goes west and the assumption is that there would be another western team to pair with them. I'm surprised to see that most mention Boise as the other partner so this thread is to compare those up for the #2 spot.

I'd assume many think Boise is much further east than it is when in reality is only 48 miles further east than San Diego.

Miles from Boise - San Diego
Ames 995 - 1248
Waco 1155 - 1018
Lawrence 982 - 1127
Manhattan 920 - 1070
Stillwater 987 - 1014
Fort Worth 1099 - 999
Lubbock 901 - 770
Morgantown 1630 - 1835
Total Miles 8669 - 9081
Average Trip 1083 - 1135
Difference -52 - +52

So SDSU is closer to the Texas schools and Boise is closer to everyone else. On average, Boise is 52 miles closer to the Big 12 schools which is a little more than 5 minutes of flight time.

The Mountain West wouldn’t even add Boise when their football program was at its peak until the conference was gutted by Utah, TCU and BYU leaving. I have a hard time believing Big 12 presidents are going to sign off on a former junior college. With that being said, here is how the schools vying for the #2 spot compare:

Boise State
USNWR University Ranking – #298-389. Its so high up there they just lump it together with a bunch of other schools.
Boise metro area population – 750,000
#102 Media Market
1.787 million total people in the state
2019 Football Attendance Average - 33,488 (capacity is 36,387)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 5,116 (capacity is 12,644 )

SDSU
USNWR University Ranking - #143
San Diego County is 3.4 million
#29 Media Market
2019 Football Attendance Average - 29,896 (new stadium under construction with 35,000 capacity and expandable to 40K)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 11,668 (capacity is 12,414).

Colorado State
USNWR University Ranking – #153
Fort Collins metro area is 310,000.
#106 Media Market.
Its 65 miles north of Denver and Nielsen does not include Fort Collins in the Denver Market DMA.
2019 Football Attendance Average – 23,338 (41,000 capacity in very new stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 3,532 (capacity is 8,745)

UNLV
USNWR University Ranking - #258
#39 Media Market
Las Vegas Metro area has 2.3 Million
2019 Football Attendance Average - 19,864 (now playing in Raiders 65K stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 8,218 (capacity is 17,923)

I'm biased but I think the #2 western spot goes to either SDSU or Colorado State. SDSU is the best school, is in the biggest media market, a trophy location, great recruiting grounds, new stadium being built, and has an incredibly high ceiling. Colorado State is a good school too and much closer to current Big 12 schools but its a tiny market and poor support despite being the only game in a college town. Vegas is really improving but they are now in a saturated sports market and are one of the nations worst football programs historically. Boise is a known football brand but has slid far from its 2012 football peak, is in a small market and has horrendous academics. Hopefully expansion doesn't drag on for years and this is settled in the short term.

BOISE & SDSU are not in the BIG12 Expansion talks IMHO. Top four are BYU, Cinci, UCF, Houston... The next two would be USF & Memphis IMHO

(08-27-2021 01:51 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  BYU is the no brainer #1 choice if the Big 12 goes west and the assumption is that there would be another western team to pair with them. I'm surprised to see that most mention Boise as the other partner so this thread is to compare those up for the #2 spot.

I'd assume many think Boise is much further east than it is when in reality is only 48 miles further east than San Diego.

Miles from Boise - San Diego
Ames 995 - 1248
Waco 1155 - 1018
Lawrence 982 - 1127
Manhattan 920 - 1070
Stillwater 987 - 1014
Fort Worth 1099 - 999
Lubbock 901 - 770
Morgantown 1630 - 1835
Total Miles 8669 - 9081
Average Trip 1083 - 1135
Difference -52 - +52

So SDSU is closer to the Texas schools and Boise is closer to everyone else. On average, Boise is 52 miles closer to the Big 12 schools which is a little more than 5 minutes of flight time.

The Mountain West wouldn’t even add Boise when their football program was at its peak until the conference was gutted by Utah, TCU and BYU leaving. I have a hard time believing Big 12 presidents are going to sign off on a former junior college. With that being said, here is how the schools vying for the #2 spot compare:

Boise State
USNWR University Ranking – #298-389. Its so high up there they just lump it together with a bunch of other schools.
Boise metro area population – 750,000
#102 Media Market
1.787 million total people in the state
2019 Football Attendance Average - 33,488 (capacity is 36,387)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 5,116 (capacity is 12,644 )

SDSU
USNWR University Ranking - #143
San Diego County is 3.4 million
#29 Media Market
2019 Football Attendance Average - 29,896 (new stadium under construction with 35,000 capacity and expandable to 40K)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 11,668 (capacity is 12,414).

Colorado State
USNWR University Ranking – #153
Fort Collins metro area is 310,000.
#106 Media Market.
Its 65 miles north of Denver and Nielsen does not include Fort Collins in the Denver Market DMA.
2019 Football Attendance Average – 23,338 (41,000 capacity in very new stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 3,532 (capacity is 8,745)

UNLV
USNWR University Ranking - #258
#39 Media Market
Las Vegas Metro area has 2.3 Million
2019 Football Attendance Average - 19,864 (now playing in Raiders 65K stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 8,218 (capacity is 17,923)

I'm biased but I think the #2 western spot goes to either SDSU or Colorado State. SDSU is the best school, is in the biggest media market, a trophy location, great recruiting grounds, new stadium being built, and has an incredibly high ceiling. Colorado State is a good school too and much closer to current Big 12 schools but its a tiny market and poor support despite being the only game in a college town. Vegas is really improving but they are now in a saturated sports market and are one of the nations worst football programs historically. Boise is a known football brand but has slid far from its 2012 football peak, is in a small market and has horrendous academics. Hopefully expansion doesn't drag on for years and this is settled in the short term.

The Mountain West made an epic mistake when it lolligagged on inviting the Broncos.Imagine what might have been had Utah, BYU, TCU, and Boise State been in the same league in the late 2000s—the Mountain West would have had a legitimate claim as a Power Conference, obviously better than the Big East.

Will the Big 12 make the same mistake?

It will likely be the big 4

BYU, Cinci, Houston and UCF

BYU and Cinci have better academics than Oklahoma for what its worth

That gives them enough to legit claim a power conf

Boise state is gonna be in the Big 12. People can complain all they want BYU wants Boise State in, FOX and ESPN both want Boise State in. And they earned it on the field over the last two decades.

(08-27-2021 01:51 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  I'm biased but I think the #2 western spot goes to either SDSU or Colorado State. SDSU is the best school, is in the biggest media market, a trophy location, great recruiting grounds, new stadium being built, and has an incredibly high ceiling. Colorado State is a good school too and much closer to current Big 12 schools but its a tiny market and poor support despite being the only game in a college town. Vegas is really improving but they are now in a saturated sports market and are one of the nations worst football programs historically. Boise is a known football brand but has slid far from its 2012 football peak, is in a small market and has horrendous academics. Hopefully expansion doesn't drag on for years and this is settled in the short term.

I would certainly take Boise State’s accomplishments since our supposed “slide” since 2012 over SDSU’s:

Boise State
Division Championships: 4
Conference Championships: 3
Bowl Championships: 3 (1 major)
Final Top-25 Rankings: 4

San Diego State
Division Championships: 2
Conference Championships: 2
Bowl Championships: 4 (0 major)
Final Top-25 Rankings: 1

The only on-field metric SDSU beats Boise State in is number of bowl championships, which is likely because you played in lesser bowls against lesser opponents (and Boise State’s bowl games in 2018 and 2020 were not played).

(08-27-2021 03:02 PM)Reverend Wrote:  Boise state is gonna be in the Big 12. People can complain all they want BYU wants Boise State in, FOX and ESPN both want Boise State in. And they earned it on the field over the last two decades.

I think if that truly is the case then you need to seriously look at expanding all the way to 14 or even 16 if you are the B12.

BYU
Boise St
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Colorado St

Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-27-2021 02:16 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  SDSU should have joined the AAC when they had the invite. They would be in a much better position today.

Not really

(08-27-2021 02:27 PM)NeighSayer Wrote:  

(08-27-2021 01:51 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  BYU is the no brainer #1 choice if the Big 12 goes west and the assumption is that there would be another western team to pair with them. I'm surprised to see that most mention Boise as the other partner so this thread is to compare those up for the #2 spot.

I'd assume many think Boise is much further east than it is when in reality is only 48 miles further east than San Diego.

Miles from Boise - San Diego
Ames 995 - 1248
Waco 1155 - 1018
Lawrence 982 - 1127
Manhattan 920 - 1070
Stillwater 987 - 1014
Fort Worth 1099 - 999
Lubbock 901 - 770
Morgantown 1630 - 1835
Total Miles 8669 - 9081
Average Trip 1083 - 1135
Difference -52 - +52

So SDSU is closer to the Texas schools and Boise is closer to everyone else. On average, Boise is 52 miles closer to the Big 12 schools which is a little more than 5 minutes of flight time.

The Mountain West wouldn’t even add Boise when their football program was at its peak until the conference was gutted by Utah, TCU and BYU leaving. I have a hard time believing Big 12 presidents are going to sign off on a former junior college. With that being said, here is how the schools vying for the #2 spot compare:

Boise State
USNWR University Ranking – #298-389. Its so high up there they just lump it together with a bunch of other schools.
Boise metro area population – 750,000
#102 Media Market
1.787 million total people in the state
2019 Football Attendance Average - 33,488 (capacity is 36,387)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 5,116 (capacity is 12,644 )

SDSU
USNWR University Ranking - #143
San Diego County is 3.4 million
#29 Media Market
2019 Football Attendance Average - 29,896 (new stadium under construction with 35,000 capacity and expandable to 40K)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 11,668 (capacity is 12,414).

Colorado State
USNWR University Ranking – #153
Fort Collins metro area is 310,000.
#106 Media Market.
Its 65 miles north of Denver and Nielsen does not include Fort Collins in the Denver Market DMA.
2019 Football Attendance Average – 23,338 (41,000 capacity in very new stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 3,532 (capacity is 8,745)

UNLV
USNWR University Ranking - #258
#39 Media Market
Las Vegas Metro area has 2.3 Million
2019 Football Attendance Average - 19,864 (now playing in Raiders 65K stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 8,218 (capacity is 17,923)

I'm biased but I think the #2 western spot goes to either SDSU or Colorado State. SDSU is the best school, is in the biggest media market, a trophy location, great recruiting grounds, new stadium being built, and has an incredibly high ceiling. Colorado State is a good school too and much closer to current Big 12 schools but its a tiny market and poor support despite being the only game in a college town. Vegas is really improving but they are now in a saturated sports market and are one of the nations worst football programs historically. Boise is a known football brand but has slid far from its 2012 football peak, is in a small market and has horrendous academics. Hopefully expansion doesn't drag on for years and this is settled in the short term.

The Mountain West made an epic mistake when it lolligagged on inviting the Broncos.Imagine what might have been had Utah, BYU, TCU, and Boise State been in the same league in the late 2000s—the Mountain West would have had a legitimate claim as a Power Conference, obviously better than the Big East.

Will the Big 12 make the same mistake?

Obviously? Nope, Big East was still better.

(08-27-2021 03:13 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  

(08-27-2021 03:02 PM)Reverend Wrote:  Boise state is gonna be in the Big 12. People can complain all they want BYU wants Boise State in, FOX and ESPN both want Boise State in. And they earned it on the field over the last two decades.

I think if that truly is the case then you need to seriously look at expanding all the way to 14 or even 16 if you are the B12.

BYU
Boise St
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Colorado St

Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app

I think they are going to 14 anyway. Teams like K-State and Baylor probably would rather make a few million less for more conference security in case the PAC-12 comes calling for teams.

San Diego State is playing it's games in Carson, CA, 2 1/2 hours on a good traffic day from campus.

(08-27-2021 03:38 PM)Reverend Wrote:  

(08-27-2021 03:13 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  

(08-27-2021 03:02 PM)Reverend Wrote:  Boise state is gonna be in the Big 12. People can complain all they want BYU wants Boise State in, FOX and ESPN both want Boise State in. And they earned it on the field over the last two decades.

I think if that truly is the case then you need to seriously look at expanding all the way to 14 or even 16 if you are the B12.

BYU
Boise St
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Colorado St

Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app

I think they are going to 14 anyway. Teams like K-State and Baylor probably would rather make a few million less for more conference security in case the PAC-12 comes calling for teams.

Let's hope. I've been clamoring for a 14 team B12 since 2016. Back then I said the 4 they should add were Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF and USF (not much has changed from my stance then). I didn't include Houston then as it didn't expand their footprint, but now it might be needed with the UT loss. Not sure. Also not sure who in 2016 would've blocked Houston, and not sure if the remaining Texas 3 would block Houston today. Not sure how many of the L8 are needed in order to block someone from being invited.

Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app

I honestly don't feel like the Big XII would feel compelled to look at anyone other than BYU west of the existing footprint. The only school that would be considered is the Air Force Academy. BSU & SDSU just don't fit the mold.

I could also see if BYU agreed to join, they could possibly take just one more school and call it quits. If BYU refrains, then the eastern four makes the most sense.

Boise State's academics is growing so fast.
Their endowment more than doubled from a few years ago.
University of Idaho lost their flagship status, which Boise State became the unofficial flagship.
Fastest growing population. Boise do have a direct airport unlike Stillwater and others.
The last G5 team that have the most better win/lost record since 2000.
Their men's basketball is slowly getting their to be a contender.
Boise State besides BYU have the name brand than the other schools right now. UCF is getting up there.

(08-27-2021 01:51 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  BYU is the no brainer #1 choice if the Big 12 goes west and the assumption is that there would be another western team to pair with them. I'm surprised to see that most mention Boise as the other partner so this thread is to compare those up for the #2 spot.

I'd assume many think Boise is much further east than it is when in reality is only 48 miles further east than San Diego.

Miles from Boise - San Diego
Ames 995 - 1248
Waco 1155 - 1018
Lawrence 982 - 1127
Manhattan 920 - 1070
Stillwater 987 - 1014
Fort Worth 1099 - 999
Lubbock 901 - 770
Morgantown 1630 - 1835
Total Miles 8669 - 9081
Average Trip 1083 - 1135
Difference -52 - +52

So SDSU is closer to the Texas schools and Boise is closer to everyone else. On average, Boise is 52 miles closer to the Big 12 schools which is a little more than 5 minutes of flight time.

The Mountain West wouldn’t even add Boise when their football program was at its peak until the conference was gutted by Utah, TCU and BYU leaving. I have a hard time believing Big 12 presidents are going to sign off on a former junior college. With that being said, here is how the schools vying for the #2 spot compare:

Boise State
USNWR University Ranking – #298-389. Its so high up there they just lump it together with a bunch of other schools.
Boise metro area population – 750,000
#102 Media Market
1.787 million total people in the state
2019 Football Attendance Average - 33,488 (capacity is 36,387)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 5,116 (capacity is 12,644 )

SDSU
USNWR University Ranking - #143
San Diego County is 3.4 million
#29 Media Market
2019 Football Attendance Average - 29,896 (new stadium under construction with 35,000 capacity and expandable to 40K)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 11,668 (capacity is 12,414).

Colorado State
USNWR University Ranking – #153
Fort Collins metro area is 310,000.
#106 Media Market.
Its 65 miles north of Denver and Nielsen does not include Fort Collins in the Denver Market DMA.
2019 Football Attendance Average – 23,338 (41,000 capacity in very new stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 3,532 (capacity is 8,745)

UNLV
USNWR University Ranking - #258
#39 Media Market
Las Vegas Metro area has 2.3 Million
2019 Football Attendance Average - 19,864 (now playing in Raiders 65K stadium)
2019 Basketball Attendance Average - 8,218 (capacity is 17,923)

I'm biased but I think the #2 western spot goes to either SDSU or Colorado State. SDSU is the best school, is in the biggest media market, a trophy location, great recruiting grounds, new stadium being built, and has an incredibly high ceiling. Colorado State is a good school too and much closer to current Big 12 schools but its a tiny market and poor support despite being the only game in a college town. Vegas is really improving but they are now in a saturated sports market and are one of the nations worst football programs historically. Boise is a known football brand but has slid far from its 2012 football peak, is in a small market and has horrendous academics. Hopefully expansion doesn't drag on for years and this is settled in the short term.

I do not know were you came up with "the assumption is there would be another western team to pair with BYU" . That statement is grossly wrong.

(08-27-2021 02:58 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It will likely be the big 4

BYU, Cinci, Houston and UCF

BYU and Cinci have better academics than Oklahoma for what its worth

That gives them enough to legit claim a power conf

I have said this 4 from the beginning. The question I have is would networks pay the league enough money to warrant a 13 & 14 if the B12 would have inventory that can start at 9 or 9:30 PM CST like the PAC does. Could that make a 13 & 14 team worth it? Then you might look at another team or two out west besides BYU. Otherwise, I don't think those teams add enough.

(08-27-2021 04:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State's academics is growing so fast.
Their endowment more than doubled from a few years ago.
University of Idaho lost their flagship status, which Boise State became the unofficial flagship.
Fastest growing population. Boise do have a direct airport unlike Stillwater and others.
The last G5 team that have the most better win/lost record since 2000.
Their men's basketball is slowly getting their to be a contender.
Boise State besides BYU have the name brand than the other schools right now. UCF is getting up there.

It is easy to grow/improve when starting from a low point - and growth rate is slowing. Memphis Metro added the same number of population as Boise over the last 10 years, but since they were starting with 700K

Idaho is still the Flagship. And the Flagship of a tiny state doesn't mean much