(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I hope he fights it in court. I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. Give them the refund, that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

I'm with you. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but this is unwarranted intrusion on personal decisions. What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Abortions aren't communicable.

But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

…and sometimes 200% if there are complications.

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I hope he fights it in court. I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. Give them the refund, that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

I'm with you. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but this is unwarranted intrusion on personal decisions. What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Abortions aren't communicable.

But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

That's a non-sequitur. He was asked why "my body, my choice" doesn't apply to vaccine mandates in workplace settings and gave a compelling answer. If you want to discuss abortion, take it to the spin room.

If we actually cared that much, we could probably FOIA Rolo's contract and see what provisions there are re: state policy.

(08-19-2021 11:47 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

…and sometimes 200% if there are complications.

Maybe it's time to brush up on how percents work...

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/ar...94244.html


If you were curious about how this is playing locally. Please, remember this is an opinion piece from the left coast but does present a perspective to consider.

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 09:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

It doesn't matter about whether a new law is substantially similar to what was agreed to at the time of contract signing. If there's one thing that's an ironclad principle, it's that a contract has to comply with the law or else it's unenforceable. If laws change, then the contract will either be (a) invalid or (b) more likely, be "blue-lined" so that the newly unlawful provision is removed from the contract or it is changed so that the contract is in compliance with the new law. (Many contracts have boilerplate language that explicitly state (b) will occur in the event that a new law conflicts with a contractual provision. I'd be shocked if a $3 million coaching contract with a major university didn't include this very standard provision.)

In any event, while we can debate whether employers *should* require vaccinations, it is VERY clear from a legal standpoint that employers have every right to do so as long as there is a religious or health exception. There is actually very little legal debate about that here.

For the Saints tickets, they make it clear on the back of the ticket (or in the fine print if you print off a ticket at home) that it's non-refundable and that entry to the stadium is contingent upon compliance with all stadium policies and rules. It doesn't matter if they created a new policy in the 3 months since you first bought the ticket - the "contract" is complying upon entry to the stadium. The Saints can remove you for basically any lawful reason that they want (e.g. as long as it's not discriminating against a protected class, such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc... and no, choosing not to be vaccinated doesn't create protected class status) and they have zero obligation to refund your tickets.

Once again, whether people want to debate about whether the Saints *should* require that policy is one thing, but they have every right to do so and keep your ticket money if you don't comply (just as it would be the case if you chose to break any other stadium rule).

I think the Saints lose that. This isn't like requiring you to not wear certain types of clothes. Its a whole different level of intrusion. Its one thing to keep them out. Its entirely different to refuse to refund money with a new restriction.

I don't think so - if anything, entities are granted much more leeway in restrictions when there's a public safety element compared to, say, clothing or not bringing in signs with obscenities.

Even if you were to argue this, teams generally have a broad "tickets are non-refundable" policy anyway that applies no matter what. The only exceptions are generally if a game legitimately cannot be played (e.g. canceled because of a hurricane). Otherwise, a ticketholder's remedy if he/she can't/won't attend is to try to sell the ticket in a secondary market.

(08-19-2021 12:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 09:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

It doesn't matter about whether a new law is substantially similar to what was agreed to at the time of contract signing. If there's one thing that's an ironclad principle, it's that a contract has to comply with the law or else it's unenforceable. If laws change, then the contract will either be (a) invalid or (b) more likely, be "blue-lined" so that the newly unlawful provision is removed from the contract or it is changed so that the contract is in compliance with the new law. (Many contracts have boilerplate language that explicitly state (b) will occur in the event that a new law conflicts with a contractual provision. I'd be shocked if a $3 million coaching contract with a major university didn't include this very standard provision.)

In any event, while we can debate whether employers *should* require vaccinations, it is VERY clear from a legal standpoint that employers have every right to do so as long as there is a religious or health exception. There is actually very little legal debate about that here.

For the Saints tickets, they make it clear on the back of the ticket (or in the fine print if you print off a ticket at home) that it's non-refundable and that entry to the stadium is contingent upon compliance with all stadium policies and rules. It doesn't matter if they created a new policy in the 3 months since you first bought the ticket - the "contract" is complying upon entry to the stadium. The Saints can remove you for basically any lawful reason that they want (e.g. as long as it's not discriminating against a protected class, such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc... and no, choosing not to be vaccinated doesn't create protected class status) and they have zero obligation to refund your tickets.

Once again, whether people want to debate about whether the Saints *should* require that policy is one thing, but they have every right to do so and keep your ticket money if you don't comply (just as it would be the case if you chose to break any other stadium rule).

I think the Saints lose that. This isn't like requiring you to not wear certain types of clothes. Its a whole different level of intrusion. Its one thing to keep them out. Its entirely different to refuse to refund money with a new restriction.

I don't think so - if anything, entities are granted much more leeway in restrictions when there's a public safety element compared to, say, clothing or not bringing in signs with obscenities.

Even if you were to argue this, teams generally have a broad "tickets are non-refundable" policy anyway that applies no matter what. The only exceptions are generally if a game legitimately cannot be played (e.g. canceled because of a hurricane). Otherwise, a ticketholder's remedy if he/she can't/won't attend is to try to sell the ticket in a secondary market.

Well its only an "element." And a lot of vaccinated people are transmitting the virus. we had a vaxxed friend get it from a vaxxed client recently.

Even more since putting 70,000 people in a stadium is a risk in itself. I'm not sure if we're ready to go back to a stadium. Having unvaccinated people only impacts that on the margins.

Requiring you to put an experimental vaccine in your body to get your money back is an EXTREME ask. There's nothing marginal about that.

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

Exactly!!! And vaccine passports???? Nope

For the record, I did decide to get one dose of the vaccine (I am scheduled to get my other dose soon)due to me not wanting my son to catch Covid-19 from me as well as keeping myself healthy for him, and a story I saw on Yahoo about a young man who regretted not getting the vaccine and was on his deathbed.

But here's my point: it was my choice!!! My job wasn't on the line (in fact, my job is actually giving a cash reward for getting the vaccine), and I like being able to go wherever I want, vaccine or no vaccine. This country was built on freedom, and I believe we have forgotten that over time.

$3,000,000 vs freedom. I'll take freedom every day!!!!!

(08-19-2021 09:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

It doesn't matter about whether a new law is substantially similar to what was agreed to at the time of contract signing. If there's one thing that's an ironclad principle, it's that a contract has to comply with the law or else it's unenforceable. If laws change, then the contract will either be (a) invalid or (b) more likely, be "blue-lined" so that the newly unlawful provision is removed from the contract or it is changed so that the contract is in compliance with the new law. (Many contracts have boilerplate language that explicitly state (b) will occur in the event that a new law conflicts with a contractual provision. I'd be shocked if a $3 million coaching contract with a major university didn't include this very standard provision.)

In any event, while we can debate whether employers *should* require vaccinations, it is VERY clear from a legal standpoint that employers have every right to do so as long as there is a religious or health exception. There is actually very little legal debate about that here.

For the Saints tickets, they make it clear on the back of the ticket (or in the fine print if you print off a ticket at home) that it's non-refundable and that entry to the stadium is contingent upon compliance with all stadium policies and rules. It doesn't matter if they created a new policy in the 3 months since you first bought the ticket - the "contract" is complying upon entry to the stadium. The Saints can remove you for basically any lawful reason that they want (e.g. as long as it's not discriminating against a protected class, such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc... and no, choosing not to be vaccinated doesn't create protected class status) and they have zero obligation to refund your tickets.

Once again, whether people want to debate about whether the Saints *should* require that policy is one thing, but they have every right to do so and keep your ticket money if you don't comply (just as it would be the case if you chose to break any other stadium rule).

About the first paragraph - I thought it worked the other way, that contracts cannot be changed by state law. That is, there is a "contract clause" in the US constitution that says this. No?

Now, if a contract does have a kind of "catch-all" provision that you talk about, then IMO whether that is reasonable or not would be a matter of judicial judgment. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that the state could have a catch-all provision in a contract that would, in effect, bypass the Contract Clause and allow it to make pretty much whatever changes it wants after the fact. That would seem to my non-legal mind to apply more to the WSU situation, since he has a contract with the State, whereas the Saints are a private organization.

But again, IANAL, I am talking about what seems reasonable to me.

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I hope he fights it in court. I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. Give them the refund, that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

I'm with you. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but this is unwarranted intrusion on personal decisions. What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Abortions aren't communicable.

But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

Women die due to lack of abortion access - other than that, zero death rate

(08-19-2021 01:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I hope he fights it in court. I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. Give them the refund, that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

I'm with you. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but this is unwarranted intrusion on personal decisions. What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Abortions aren't communicable.

But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

Women die due to lack of abortion access - other than that, zero death rate

I would say very few women who have abortions die each year from having an abortion or lack of access to them. Hundreds of thousands of women (females) are killed each year by being aborted.

(08-19-2021 01:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

Exactly!!! And vaccine passports???? Nope

For the record, I did decide to get one dose of the vaccine (I am scheduled to get my other dose soon)due to me not wanting my son to catch Covid-19 from me as well as keeping myself healthy for him, and a story I saw on Yahoo about a young man who regretted not getting the vaccine and was on his deathbed.

But here's my point: it was my choice!!! My job wasn't on the line (in fact, my job is actually giving a cash reward for getting the vaccine), and I like being able to go wherever I want, vaccine or no vaccine. This country was built on freedom, and I believe we have forgotten that over time.

$3,000,000 vs freedom. I'll take freedom every day!!!!!

Freedom always has it's limits. More than freedom, our country was built on sacrifice and community. You mask and Vax not just for yourself, but for your Fellow American.

Spin room here we come. Oh well.

(08-19-2021 01:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  I'm with you. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but this is unwarranted intrusion on personal decisions. What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Abortions aren't communicable.

But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

Women die due to lack of abortion access - other than that, zero death rate

I would say very few women who have abortions die each year from having an abortion or lack of access to them. Hundreds of thousands of women (females) are killed each year by being aborted.

Women died regularly when abortion was outlawed. Other than a miniscule amount from complications, there are no deaths from abortion.

(08-19-2021 01:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

Exactly!!! And vaccine passports???? Nope

For the record, I did decide to get one dose of the vaccine (I am scheduled to get my other dose soon)due to me not wanting my son to catch Covid-19 from me as well as keeping myself healthy for him, and a story I saw on Yahoo about a young man who regretted not getting the vaccine and was on his deathbed.

But here's my point: it was my choice!!! My job wasn't on the line (in fact, my job is actually giving a cash reward for getting the vaccine), and I like being able to go wherever I want, vaccine or no vaccine. This country was built on freedom, and I believe we have forgotten that over time.

$3,000,000 vs freedom. I'll take freedom every day!!!!!

Freedom always has it's limits. More than freedom, our country was built on sacrifice and community. You mask and Vax not just for yourself, but for your Fellow American.

I see someone wasn't paying attention during history class. In 1775, the British crown tried to impose gun control and other types of control upon the American colonies. We fought back!!!! And yes, there was sacrifice too!! Most definitely. This country was founded on people looking for freedom!! The Pilgrims, Roger Williams and Rhode Island, Lord Calvert and the colony of Maryland, William Penn and the colony of Pennsylvania. All of the Germans who immigrated to upstate New York. I could go on endlessly. But ask just about any immigrant why they decided to move to the United States of America. They will tell you because of freedom.

(08-19-2021 01:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Abortions aren't communicable.

But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

Women die due to lack of abortion access - other than that, zero death rate

I would say very few women who have abortions die each year from having an abortion or lack of access to them. Hundreds of thousands of women (females) are killed each year by being aborted.

Women died regularly when abortion was outlawed. Other than a miniscule amount from complications, there are no deaths from abortion.

The baby would disagree that there are no deaths.

(08-19-2021 01:36 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

Women die due to lack of abortion access - other than that, zero death rate

I would say very few women who have abortions die each year from having an abortion or lack of access to them. Hundreds of thousands of women (females) are killed each year by being aborted.

Women died regularly when abortion was outlawed. Other than a miniscule amount from complications, there are no deaths from abortion.

The baby would disagree that there are no deaths.

exactly!!!

(08-19-2021 01:35 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

Exactly!!! And vaccine passports???? Nope

For the record, I did decide to get one dose of the vaccine (I am scheduled to get my other dose soon)due to me not wanting my son to catch Covid-19 from me as well as keeping myself healthy for him, and a story I saw on Yahoo about a young man who regretted not getting the vaccine and was on his deathbed.

But here's my point: it was my choice!!! My job wasn't on the line (in fact, my job is actually giving a cash reward for getting the vaccine), and I like being able to go wherever I want, vaccine or no vaccine. This country was built on freedom, and I believe we have forgotten that over time.

$3,000,000 vs freedom. I'll take freedom every day!!!!!

Freedom always has it's limits. More than freedom, our country was built on sacrifice and community. You mask and Vax not just for yourself, but for your Fellow American.

I see someone wasn't paying attention during history class. In 1775, the British crown tried to impose gun control and other types of control upon the American colonies. We fought back!!!! And yes, there was sacrifice too!! Most definitely. But ask just about any immigrant why they decided to move to the United States of America. They will tell you because of freedom.

I was paying attention - I was reading American History books in 1st grade.

Freedom has it's limits. We accept them as being a part of society. 100% Freedom = anarchy.

I want the freedom to travel and go to indoor activities without having to worry about the idiots that are unvaxxed and unmasked, but people are denying me that right.

(08-19-2021 01:36 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 11:38 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  But yet they end in death 100% of the time. What is COVID's death rate?

Women die due to lack of abortion access - other than that, zero death rate

I would say very few women who have abortions die each year from having an abortion or lack of access to them. Hundreds of thousands of women (females) are killed each year by being aborted.

Women died regularly when abortion was outlawed. Other than a miniscule amount from complications, there are no deaths from abortion.

The baby would disagree that there are no deaths.

Well, since it is a fetus not a baby.

(08-19-2021 01:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:35 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 01:07 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-19-2021 08:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'm vaxxed and hope others are too, but the idea of making your job contingent on a significant requirement that was not in place when you signed the deal rubs me the wrong way.

To me, the blanket statement about complying with state laws works, if there is something substantially similar already in the contract. E.g., if when he signed the deal, the state already required vaccinations of state employees for some diseases, then adding covid to the list is not a cause for him to complain (that's why I don't mind colleges requiring covid vaccines for students, they typically already require vaccinations for other things). But if there was no vaccine mandate of any kind, then that's IMO different, a substantial alteration of employment conditions.

It's like the Saints saying they will not refund season tickets to fans who don't want to comply with the new vaccine mandate for attending the games. I support the vaccine mandate, but think the Saints should give them the refund, as that wasn't in the boilerplate when they bought the tickets.

Exactly!!! And vaccine passports???? Nope

For the record, I did decide to get one dose of the vaccine (I am scheduled to get my other dose soon)due to me not wanting my son to catch Covid-19 from me as well as keeping myself healthy for him, and a story I saw on Yahoo about a young man who regretted not getting the vaccine and was on his deathbed.

But here's my point: it was my choice!!! My job wasn't on the line (in fact, my job is actually giving a cash reward for getting the vaccine), and I like being able to go wherever I want, vaccine or no vaccine. This country was built on freedom, and I believe we have forgotten that over time.

$3,000,000 vs freedom. I'll take freedom every day!!!!!

Freedom always has it's limits. More than freedom, our country was built on sacrifice and community. You mask and Vax not just for yourself, but for your Fellow American.

I see someone wasn't paying attention during history class. In 1775, the British crown tried to impose gun control and other types of control upon the American colonies. We fought back!!!! And yes, there was sacrifice too!! Most definitely. But ask just about any immigrant why they decided to move to the United States of America. They will tell you because of freedom.

I was paying attention - I was reading American History books in 1st grade.

Freedom has it's limits. We accept them as being a part of society. 100% Freedom = anarchy.

I want the freedom to travel and go to indoor activities without having to worry about the idiots that are unvaxxed and unmasked, but people elected, corrupt officials are denying me that right.

Your culprits are listed above.

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand (and to little surprise, imo)...

USFFan