(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 01:13 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  Texas & Mississippi State back at it after the rain delay, starting at 1:06 AM CT.

Also just announced (and yes, for the majority of folk who are sleeping as I type this and are waking up to the news, the NCAA dropped this bomb at 2:10 AM Eastern Time) .......... NC State out of the tournament completely due to the COVID issues. Vanderbilt on to the finals, they win by no contest.

Texas winds up winning, 8-5. So at least there will be one game on Saturday.

A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

And then if one of the Vanderbilt players comes down with Covid and dies do we get to charge you with murder?

The NCAA had no choice in the matter

Anyone blaming anyone other than the unvaccinated North Carolina State players needs to re-examine their values

The vaccine greatly illuminates your chances of getting Covid and greatly reduces your chances of spreading it but it’s not 100%. No drug or treatment is

The fact remains you can’t play Russian roulette with peoples lives in this manner

(06-26-2021 09:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:47 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

Knowing Tim Corbin, I strongly feel you are correct: He and his VU players would have wanted to play N.C. State with a full roster last night.

But, and as ken d noted, why did the two State players not get vaccinated? They are somewhat to blame for this (or seemingly so).

I hate this for NCST. I'm not a huge fan but our family does root some for the Wolfpack. I was so looking forward to watching the game today with my father and mother. And now this ...

Sad.

I am saddened for NC State too. I was rooting against them all series long but rooted for them yesterday. They showed grit and I liked their coach's attitude about the vaccines.

About the vaccines, IMO getting something injected in to your body is as personal a decision as it gets, so I won't question anyone who isn't comfortable with it. I am fully vaccinated myself, but respect the choice of those who aren't.

Agree fully, Quo. I know a few folks who are militantly socially conscientious (they truly care about society and their fellow humans) and who have chosen not to get vaccinated (for various reasons). I 100 percent respect their right to make that choice.

As to this situation specifically ... I wonder if the NCST players who did not get vaccinated, hypothetically, wish they could go back in time and simply opt out of participating in the NCAA Tournament. Perhaps that would have been the best way to handle.

(06-26-2021 10:10 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:47 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

Knowing Tim Corbin, I strongly feel you are correct: He and his VU players would have wanted to play N.C. State with a full roster last night.

But, and as ken d noted, why did the two State players not get vaccinated? They are somewhat to blame for this (or seemingly so).

I hate this for NCST. I'm not a huge fan but our family does root some for the Wolfpack. I was so looking forward to watching the game today with my father and mother. And now this ...

Sad.

Bill first consider these points:

1. Covid protocols had been relaxed nationwide (to varying degrees in each locale, but relaxed).

2. Most of N.C. State's suspended players had been vaccinated. Is the vaccine actually effective or not, or are flip flopping perspectives and opinions in play again? It can't really be both at the same time unless we've been lied to again.

3. Baseball is the least contact oriented of the major sports and is played outside.

4. The NCAA just suffered a major legal setback to their agency. Is this a kick the dog scenario where perhaps N.C. State was urged to withdraw yesterday by the NCAA who was trying to appear protective in an attempt to re-legitimize their role only to have N.C. State rightfully play on depleted of vaccinated players guilty only of contact with the un-vaccinated and who almost winning tweaked the NCAA's moment to look necessary and so was gutlessly punished in the middle of the night for doing so? It damn sure looks like it to me!

5. If all but 4 had been vaccinated why can't the rest play on? Do we trust the vaccine or not? If not why are we playing at all? If yes what possible reason is there for the vaccinated to be disqualified.

6. It's time for people to quit reacting and to think about all of the conflicting and irrational justifications being tendered by those in power. This one is glaring.

I'm vaccinated and feel for the greater good of this wonderful country everybody should be, too. But, and as I noted, this is a personal choice and I respect people's rights to make that choice.

As such, JRsec, this is an outstanding point you make:

5. If all but 4 had been vaccinated why can't the rest play on? Do we trust the vaccine or not? If not why are we playing at all? If yes what possible reason is there for the vaccinated to be disqualified.

(06-26-2021 10:24 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 01:13 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  Texas & Mississippi State back at it after the rain delay, starting at 1:06 AM CT.

Also just announced (and yes, for the majority of folk who are sleeping as I type this and are waking up to the news, the NCAA dropped this bomb at 2:10 AM Eastern Time) .......... NC State out of the tournament completely due to the COVID issues. Vanderbilt on to the finals, they win by no contest.

Texas winds up winning, 8-5. So at least there will be one game on Saturday.

A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

And then if one of the Vanderbilt players comes down with Covid and dies do we get to charge you with murder?

The NCAA had no choice in the matter

Anyone blaming anyone other than the unvaccinated North Carolina State players needs to re-examine their values

I feel the argument is more so how the NCAA handled making the decision (as opposed to the decision itself).

I don't think "all but 4 had been vaccinated". It sounds to me like about 50% of the team was vaccinated.

Only unvaccinated players were being tested. 2 tested positive, and then with contact tracing among unvaccinated players, NC State fielded 13 players. On could theorize based on that that 13 NCSU players were vaccinated, because how else would 13 players not be benched via contact tracing? Then, because of the positive tests, the vaccinated players were then tested. 4 tested positive, leaving them with 9 available players for today.

This is all based on various things I've been hearing so may not be 100% correct.

I will say that if 4 of 13 vaccinated players got COVID, either we've got either (1) really bad data on how it spreads among vaccinated people, (2) a fluke, or (3) players lying about being vaccinated.

(06-26-2021 10:24 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 01:13 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  Texas & Mississippi State back at it after the rain delay, starting at 1:06 AM CT.

Also just announced (and yes, for the majority of folk who are sleeping as I type this and are waking up to the news, the NCAA dropped this bomb at 2:10 AM Eastern Time) .......... NC State out of the tournament completely due to the COVID issues. Vanderbilt on to the finals, they win by no contest.

Texas winds up winning, 8-5. So at least there will be one game on Saturday.

A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

And then if one of the Vanderbilt players comes down with Covid and dies do we get to charge you with murder?

The NCAA had no choice in the matter

Anyone blaming anyone other than the unvaccinated North Carolina State players needs to re-examine their values

Eh? If one of the Vanderbilt players chooses to play (nobody can force them to) then if they get sick, that's on them nobody else.

As for dying, the covid survival rate for a 20 year old without underlying conditions is about 99.995%. Too low of a chance of death to be worth worrying about to me. If I was a kid, I'd play. If I worried about everything that had a .005% chance of killing me, I'd probably never leave my bedroom. Covid is just covid, it's not a black mamba bite, or rabies.

I don't blame the vaccinated or unvaccinated kids, just the dumb covid rules.

(06-26-2021 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Eh? If one of the Vanderbilt players chooses to play (nobody can force them to) then if they get sick, that's on them nobody else.

As for dying, the covid survival rate for a 20 year old without underlying conditions is about 99.995%. Too low of a chance of death to be worth worrying about to me. If I was a kid, I'd play.

I don't blame the vaccinated or unvaccinated kids, just the dumb covid rules.

Yeah, no players are at risk of dying. I guess one could argue they could spread it to more vulnerable friends and family members though.

But at some point, we need to just accept risk.

(06-26-2021 10:42 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Eh? If one of the Vanderbilt players chooses to play (nobody can force them to) then if they get sick, that's on them nobody else.

As for dying, the covid survival rate for a 20 year old without underlying conditions is about 99.995%. Too low of a chance of death to be worth worrying about to me. If I was a kid, I'd play.

I don't blame the vaccinated or unvaccinated kids, just the dumb covid rules.

Yeah, no players are at risk of dying. I guess one could argue they could spread it to more vulnerable friends and family members though.

But at some point, we need to just accept risk.

I guess anything is possible, but to me, if a kid wants to take the risk of catching the virus, and possibly spreading it to family, that's his business and maybe his family's, not the NCAAs. And he can catch the virus any place he is anywhere in society, not just at a baseball game.

Beyond that, we all do accept risk. We do it a thousand times a day in a myriad of circumstances. But the media has hyped covid-risk to the extent that many people out there (not talking about you, btw) are hyper-fearful of it in a way that they aren't about other things with similar risk.

(06-26-2021 11:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 10:42 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Eh? If one of the Vanderbilt players chooses to play (nobody can force them to) then if they get sick, that's on them nobody else.

As for dying, the covid survival rate for a 20 year old without underlying conditions is about 99.995%. Too low of a chance of death to be worth worrying about to me. If I was a kid, I'd play.

I don't blame the vaccinated or unvaccinated kids, just the dumb covid rules.

Yeah, no players are at risk of dying. I guess one could argue they could spread it to more vulnerable friends and family members though.

But at some point, we need to just accept risk.

I guess anything is possible, but to me, if a kid wants to take the risk of catching the virus, and possibly spreading it to family, that's his business and maybe his family's, not the NCAAs. And he can catch the virus any place he is anywhere in society, not just at a baseball game.

Beyond that, we all do accept risk. We do it a thousand times a day in a myriad of circumstances. But the media has hyped covid-risk to the extent that many people out there (not talking about you, btw) are hyper-fearful of it in a way that they aren't about other things with similar risk.

Agreed, that's what I was getting at. These kids are more likely to be killed on the bus ride to the stadium than from COVID. But we accept that risk without everyone getting all upset.

(06-26-2021 09:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:47 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

Knowing Tim Corbin, I strongly feel you are correct: He and his VU players would have wanted to play N.C. State with a full roster last night.

But, and as ken d noted, why did the two State players not get vaccinated? They are somewhat to blame for this (or seemingly so).

I hate this for NCST. I'm not a huge fan but our family does root some for the Wolfpack. I was so looking forward to watching the game today with my father and mother. And now this ...

Sad.

I am saddened for NC State too. I was rooting against them all series long but rooted for them yesterday. They showed grit and I liked their coach's attitude about the vaccines.

About the vaccines, IMO getting something injected in to your body is as personal a decision as it gets, so I won't question anyone who isn't comfortable with it. I am fully vaccinated myself, but respect the choice of those who aren't.

Particularly those under 22 who have virtually zero risk from the virus.

(06-26-2021 10:10 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:47 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

Knowing Tim Corbin, I strongly feel you are correct: He and his VU players would have wanted to play N.C. State with a full roster last night.

But, and as ken d noted, why did the two State players not get vaccinated? They are somewhat to blame for this (or seemingly so).

I hate this for NCST. I'm not a huge fan but our family does root some for the Wolfpack. I was so looking forward to watching the game today with my father and mother. And now this ...

Sad.

Bill first consider these points:

1. Covid protocols had been relaxed nationwide (to varying degrees in each locale, but relaxed).

2. Most of N.C. State's suspended players had been vaccinated. Is the vaccine actually effective or not, or are flip flopping perspectives and opinions in play again? It can't really be both at the same time unless we've been lied to again.

3. Baseball is the least contact oriented of the major sports and is played outside.

4. The NCAA just suffered a major legal setback to their agency. Is this a kick the dog scenario where perhaps N.C. State was urged to withdraw yesterday by the NCAA who was trying to appear protective in an attempt to re-legitimize their role only to have N.C. State rightfully play on depleted of vaccinated players guilty only of contact with the un-vaccinated and who almost winning tweaked the NCAA's moment to look necessary and so was gutlessly punished in the middle of the night for doing so? It damn sure looks like it to me!

5. If all but 4 had been vaccinated why can't the rest play on? Do we trust the vaccine or not? If not why are we playing at all? If yes what possible reason is there for the vaccinated to be disqualified.

6. It's time for people to quit reacting and to think about all of the conflicting and irrational justifications being tendered by those in power. This one is glaring.

I understand why the NCAA did what they did, but these things look less and less reasonable as we go on.

(06-26-2021 10:31 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 10:24 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:42 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  A stunningly horrible outcome. Truly there is no joy in Mudville tonight! What a crappy and gutless way for the NCAA to announce such a decision, when literally most of the nation is in bed via a press release, instead of before officials in the morning at a press conference where they had to explain their action!

If NC State was able to field a team, the NCAA should have found a way to give them a chance.They already did for one game so what changed?

I feel for NC State here, just like VCU men's hoops, Michigan men's hockey and Rice volleyball. All four individual squads taken down by covid.

Wolfpack bow out of Omaha with a win, three wins short of a national championship.

The NC State web site says that "the decision was ultimately made based on the recommendation of the championship medical team and the Douglas County Health Department."

Personally, and I admit I am in no way shape or form a medical doctor, I think these covid restrictions are silly. It should be up to the players on both teams to decide whether to play. I bet Vanderbilt would have been fine with playing the full roster of NC State, whether infected or not. I would be.

And then if one of the Vanderbilt players comes down with Covid and dies do we get to charge you with murder?

The NCAA had no choice in the matter

Anyone blaming anyone other than the unvaccinated North Carolina State players needs to re-examine their values

I feel the argument is more so how the NCAA handled making the decision (as opposed to the decision itself).

More tests came back positive. Everyone in the NC State dugout was exposed. What was the NCAA supposed to do differently?

Look, NC State knew what the rule was. And a number of players - apparently supported by the coaching staff - chose to risk the consequences of that rule. If the whole team had been vaccinated, there would have been no tests, and they'd be getting ready to suit up right now. Instead, they rolled the dice and lost. And that is not the NCAA's fault or anyone's fault except the coaching staff and the players who chose not to get vaccinated despite knowing the NCAA rule beforehand.

The NCAA ruined the CWS.

Well done idiots.

1. The posts related to murder are stupid.
2. No one on NC State's teams was going to infect anyone on Vandy's above and beyond the other 20,000 people in their immediate area. - That's bull ****
3. The shot is safe and effective but anti-vaxxers and far right extremists have ginned up their usually stupid **** and it percolated in Raleigh where there is still a contingent of people so stupid as to place "their rights" above their life.
4. All talk about exposure is bull ****
5. The facts are that rules were such that Vandy could win by the rulebook what they could not win on the field. Same thing happens in match play in golf. When you trust to dumb luck and everyone's good will, you are a fool - a dumb***. The fact that the NCAA is crooked means little when you gave them the bullets for their gun.

Here's what professionals would have done:

1. Got all of NC State's players vaccinated.
2. If not vaccinated had legal help to assist NC State players in not cooperating with the NCAA.
3. Contracted an epidemiologist to put you your hip pocket for two weeks - one good at publicly embarrassing others.
4. Advise players how to avoid the actually little men running after them to test them.

I can assure you this would not have happened to Duke or UNC-Ch because they would have brought immediate counter threats to the table against all opposing parties.

IMO, whatever the NCAA does is moot.

It will be litigated, and eventually a court will decide what the NIL rules will be.

Shouldn't be that way, but will.

Complete idiocy.

(06-26-2021 01:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Complete idiocy.

Yes, that's preposterous. The whole basis of the vaccination regime that the government has pushed the last six months is that once you are vaxxed, you are good to go, and don't worry about if you catch covid because it won't severely impact you - as it wasn't for the four who tested positive, because apparently they didn't even know they had it.

Just so stupid.