(04-25-2021 07:59 PM)Todor Wrote:  I guess if in the unlikely event the former Southland schools want to recreate the conference they left even more, there is a chance it could last one extra year before falling apart again. But its unlikely. Its still as doomed as the moment the TX schools got the boot from the Southland.

This got me thinking last night. There is a possible landing spot for the new WAC football schools if they don't like the new WAC. The ASUN is also trying to start up an FCS league, and they only have 5 members.

So, if your estimate is correct, we could see something like a move of Lamar, SHSU, SFAU and Tarleton State to the ASUN. That would put the ASUN at 16 for basketball, but it gets the ASUN an FCS league.

I think it's more likely that the new WAC schools stick with the move for a while, at least until the current administrators cycle out and you have new administrators who don't have to explain why they're moving out of the conference they just moved into.

(04-26-2021 06:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-25-2021 07:59 PM)Todor Wrote:  I guess if in the unlikely event the former Southland schools want to recreate the conference they left even more, there is a chance it could last one extra year before falling apart again. But its unlikely. Its still as doomed as the moment the TX schools got the boot from the Southland.

This got me thinking last night. There is a possible landing spot for the new WAC football schools if they don't like the new WAC. The ASUN is also trying to start up an FCS league, and they only have 5 members.

So, if your estimate is correct, we could see something like a move of Lamar, SHSU, SFAU and Tarleton State to the ASUN. That would put the ASUN at 16 for basketball, but it gets the ASUN an FCS league.

I think it's more likely that the new WAC schools stick with the move for a while, at least until the current administrators cycle out and you have new administrators who don't have to explain why they're moving out of the conference they just moved into.

It’s more likely that the ASUN will come after the Louisiana schools to get their football autobid.

(04-26-2021 07:44 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(04-26-2021 06:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-25-2021 07:59 PM)Todor Wrote:  I guess if in the unlikely event the former Southland schools want to recreate the conference they left even more, there is a chance it could last one extra year before falling apart again. But its unlikely. Its still as doomed as the moment the TX schools got the boot from the Southland.

This got me thinking last night. There is a possible landing spot for the new WAC football schools if they don't like the new WAC. The ASUN is also trying to start up an FCS league, and they only have 5 members.

So, if your estimate is correct, we could see something like a move of Lamar, SHSU, SFAU and Tarleton State to the ASUN. That would put the ASUN at 16 for basketball, but it gets the ASUN an FCS league.

I think it's more likely that the new WAC schools stick with the move for a while, at least until the current administrators cycle out and you have new administrators who don't have to explain why they're moving out of the conference they just moved into.

It’s more likely that the ASUN will come after the Louisiana schools to get their football autobid.

1. I think the ASUN would prefer the Texas public schools, but once they're up against the reality of not having enough schools, they'll take who they can get (which is why the "Incarnate Word to the WAC" rumor has some legs, even though 4 new WAC schools just changed conferences to get away from UIW)

2. Todor is metaphysically convinced that the schools who just announced that they're joining the WAC are hellbent on leaving the WAC. The ASUN is a remotely plausible way to do that.

(04-26-2021 06:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-25-2021 07:59 PM)Todor Wrote:  I guess if in the unlikely event the former Southland schools want to recreate the conference they left even more, there is a chance it could last one extra year before falling apart again. But its unlikely. Its still as doomed as the moment the TX schools got the boot from the Southland.

This got me thinking last night. There is a possible landing spot for the new WAC football schools if they don't like the new WAC. The ASUN is also trying to start up an FCS league, and they only have 5 members.

So, if your estimate is correct, we could see something like a move of Lamar, SHSU, SFAU and Tarleton State to the ASUN. That would put the ASUN at 16 for basketball, but it gets the ASUN an FCS league.

I think it's more likely that the new WAC schools stick with the move for a while, at least until the current administrators cycle out and you have new administrators who don't have to explain why they're moving out of the conference they just moved into.

Don't listen to him he is still scarred from the last Texas exodus from the WAC years ago. No one is going anywhere. The WAC is finally getting their act together by adding schools football playing schools that are geographically connected and have a history of playing each other. Folks this is finally a stable conference. Better days lie ahead

(04-26-2021 09:42 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(04-26-2021 06:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-25-2021 07:59 PM)Todor Wrote:  I guess if in the unlikely event the former Southland schools want to recreate the conference they left even more, there is a chance it could last one extra year before falling apart again. But its unlikely. Its still as doomed as the moment the TX schools got the boot from the Southland.

This got me thinking last night. There is a possible landing spot for the new WAC football schools if they don't like the new WAC. The ASUN is also trying to start up an FCS league, and they only have 5 members.

So, if your estimate is correct, we could see something like a move of Lamar, SHSU, SFAU and Tarleton State to the ASUN. That would put the ASUN at 16 for basketball, but it gets the ASUN an FCS league.

I think it's more likely that the new WAC schools stick with the move for a while, at least until the current administrators cycle out and you have new administrators who don't have to explain why they're moving out of the conference they just moved into.

Don't listen to him he is still scarred from the last Texas exodus from the WAC years ago. No one is going anywhere. The WAC is finally getting their act together by adding schools football playing schools that are geographically connected and have a history of playing each other. Folks this is finally a stable conference. Better days lie ahead

This. Poor Todor assumes all Texas schools are alike and will follow the example of earlier institutions by fleeing the WAC As soon as the opportunity presents itself. He seems incapable of making the distinction between these and other schools from the same state that did him/the WAC wrong in his opinion.

As a disinterested outside observer, the move from the Southland to the WAC looks a lot more like leaving the Southland rather than joining the WAC. The newly joining Texas schools have no history with the other WAC schools except for Tarleton St and UTRGV. There is no connection with California Baptist, Dixie St, Grand Canyon, New Mexico St, Seattle, Southern Utah, Utah Valley, or - for a brief period - Chicago St.

I don't think moving to the WAC was flippant but I don't see this as a long-term relationship, either. At best, it looks like a symbiotic relationship with two pseudo-conferences under the same name and banner. I wouldn't be surprised if the six Texas schools split at some point and brought along Incarnate Word and one other like West Texas A&M to create an all-Texas FCS conference. I also wouldn't surprised if they stayed.

(04-26-2021 10:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As a disinterested outside observer, the move from the Southland to the WAC looks a lot more like leaving the Southland rather than joining the WAC. The newly joining Texas schools have no history with the other WAC schools except for Tarleton St and UTRGV. There is no connection with California Baptist, Dixie St, Grand Canyon, New Mexico St, Seattle, Southern Utah, Utah Valley, or - for a brief period - Chicago St.

I don't think moving to the WAC was flippant but I don't see this as a long-term relationship, either. At best, it looks like a symbiotic relationship with two pseudo-conferences under the same name and banner. I wouldn't be surprised if the six Texas schools split at some point and brought along Incarnate Word and one other like West Texas A&M to create an all-Texas FCS conference. I also wouldn't surprised if they stayed.

I tend to agree. I think that somewhere down the road, there will likely be a non-fb WAC and a Texas based FCS conference. both sides would likely want to have 9 members apiece before splitting.

(04-26-2021 01:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I tend to agree. I think that somewhere down the road, there will likely be a non-fb WAC and a Texas based FCS conference. both sides would likely want to have 9 members apiece before splitting.

A non-FB WAC & a Texas FCS conference certainly would make sense.

The schools are committed to exploring FBS and quite frankly, the WAC "brand" or "name" and what the conference has (grandfathered admission to FBS) is part of the allure here.

So yes, the schools that left were all about getting away but there's an opportunity (and we'll learn more once the study is completed and the feedback from the universities at that point) to go FBS. That, the ability to play a predominantly in-state schedule for the Texas schools and an opportunity to significantly improve the basketball were the driving factors.

Incarnate Word U offers the WAC an opportunity to play a Current D1 team in an Excellent setting in one of our Nations Premier Tourist Destinations ... if you are from Stephenville , Beaumont , Huntsville etc .. San Antonio and UICW offer a unique opportunity to follow your Hone Team and enjoy College Sports


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(04-26-2021 05:49 PM)Cowboy Frog Wrote:  Incarnate Word U offers the WAC an opportunity to play a Current D1 team in an Excellent setting in one of our Nations Premier Tourist Destinations ... if you are from Stephenville , Beaumont , Huntsville etc .. San Antonio and UICW offer a unique opportunity to follow your Hone Team and enjoy College Sports


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UIW offers that as an OOC opponent as well. What they do not offer is a unique opportunity to follow your home team and enjoy college sports. All opponents offer that "opportunity".

If San Antonio doesn't support FBS UTSA playing in the Alamodome, what makes you think they would support FCS Incarnate Word playing in a 6000 seat (less than high school) stadium?

Mr SMU ...( I also attended SMU.).I have followed TCU through the Southwest Conference ...Went to EVERY destination ..The WAC also went to every destination ..Conference USA ..Also Every Destination ..The Mountain West ..Also every destination ..The BIG EAST ..TCU was only there long enough to owe a BIG exit fee ..and the BIG 12 ....First You MUST understand WHY colleges offer athletics ...IT IS TO ATTRACT STUDENTS and ENTERTAIN BOOSTERS ...Do you think THE WAC teams think they are going to attract students in Stephenville or Abilene .....??? NO they go to where the potential Students are ....The Metroplex , Houston and Austin/SA..They want to have a PRESENCE in each area ...THE BIG 12 HIRED TCU to PROVIDE an OPPORTUNITY for their ALUMS and BOOSTERS in the METRO AREA to have a place where they could go to see their college play ..THEY NO Longer had to go to Lawrence or Iowa or Lubbock to meet with the College Presidents and promotion folks ...They could see their team play and GIVE MONEY to the SCHOOL and take their kids to see their ALMA Mater Play and stay where they Live and make their living ...SAN ANTONE and UICW would be a BOON to WAC recruiting and fundraising ....THERE is MORE Money in SA than ALL others WAC destinations COMBiNED..!!!!


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(04-26-2021 10:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As a disinterested outside observer, the move from the Southland to the WAC looks a lot more like leaving the Southland rather than joining the WAC. The newly joining Texas schools have no history with the other WAC schools except for Tarleton St and UTRGV. There is no connection with California Baptist, Dixie St, Grand Canyon, New Mexico St, Seattle, Southern Utah, Utah Valley, or - for a brief period - Chicago St.

I don't think moving to the WAC was flippant but I don't see this as a long-term relationship, either. At best, it looks like a symbiotic relationship with two pseudo-conferences under the same name and banner. I wouldn't be surprised if the six Texas schools split at some point and brought along Incarnate Word and one other like West Texas A&M to create an all-Texas FCS conference. I also wouldn't surprised if they stayed.

The scenario you are proposing is years down the road. And even then I don’t see it. How much exposure do you think a Texas only conference gives them nationally?

(04-26-2021 01:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(04-26-2021 10:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As a disinterested outside observer, the move from the Southland to the WAC looks a lot more like leaving the Southland rather than joining the WAC. The newly joining Texas schools have no history with the other WAC schools except for Tarleton St and UTRGV. There is no connection with California Baptist, Dixie St, Grand Canyon, New Mexico St, Seattle, Southern Utah, Utah Valley, or - for a brief period - Chicago St.

I don't think moving to the WAC was flippant but I don't see this as a long-term relationship, either. At best, it looks like a symbiotic relationship with two pseudo-conferences under the same name and banner. I wouldn't be surprised if the six Texas schools split at some point and brought along Incarnate Word and one other like West Texas A&M to create an all-Texas FCS conference. I also wouldn't surprised if they stayed.

I tend to agree. I think that somewhere down the road, there will likely be a non-fb WAC and a Texas based FCS conference. both sides would likely want to have 9 members apiece before splitting.

Split from the WAC to form a new D1 conference that would have no NCAA basketball auto bid for eight years? I don’t think so.

(04-26-2021 07:17 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(04-26-2021 10:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As a disinterested outside observer, the move from the Southland to the WAC looks a lot more like leaving the Southland rather than joining the WAC. The newly joining Texas schools have no history with the other WAC schools except for Tarleton St and UTRGV. There is no connection with California Baptist, Dixie St, Grand Canyon, New Mexico St, Seattle, Southern Utah, Utah Valley, or - for a brief period - Chicago St.

I don't think moving to the WAC was flippant but I don't see this as a long-term relationship, either. At best, it looks like a symbiotic relationship with two pseudo-conferences under the same name and banner. I wouldn't be surprised if the six Texas schools split at some point and brought along Incarnate Word and one other like West Texas A&M to create an all-Texas FCS conference. I also wouldn't surprised if they stayed.

The scenario you are proposing is years down the road. And even then I don’t see it. How much exposure do you think a Texas only conference gives them nationally?

It seems like for most of these schools, the relevant question is how much exposure a Texas only conference gives them in Texas.

FCS has no visibility anywhere, I'm not sure why that would matter.

(04-26-2021 08:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-26-2021 07:17 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(04-26-2021 10:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  As a disinterested outside observer, the move from the Southland to the WAC looks a lot more like leaving the Southland rather than joining the WAC. The newly joining Texas schools have no history with the other WAC schools except for Tarleton St and UTRGV. There is no connection with California Baptist, Dixie St, Grand Canyon, New Mexico St, Seattle, Southern Utah, Utah Valley, or - for a brief period - Chicago St.

I don't think moving to the WAC was flippant but I don't see this as a long-term relationship, either. At best, it looks like a symbiotic relationship with two pseudo-conferences under the same name and banner. I wouldn't be surprised if the six Texas schools split at some point and brought along Incarnate Word and one other like West Texas A&M to create an all-Texas FCS conference. I also wouldn't surprised if they stayed.

The scenario you are proposing is years down the road. And even then I don’t see it. How much exposure do you think a Texas only conference gives them nationally?

It seems like for most of these schools, the relevant question is how much exposure a Texas only conference gives them in Texas.

Look no further than the Southwest Conference. This conference was doomed once mass communications arrived and recruits saw there was a world of football outside Texas. Problem was the SWC saw little exposure nationally and eventually collapsed. Southland fits this same model. Because all the schools were so close no one knew the schools existed outside of their Conference. Very little exposure. So, yes schools want national exposure not Texas exposure.

(04-26-2021 10:50 PM)Todor Wrote:  FCS has no visibility anywhere, I'm not sure why that would matter.

There is more at play than just FCS.

Lamar, SFAU and Sam Houston State wants FBS.
Abilene Christian is spending money to upgrade their facilities.
West Texas A&M had plans to go to 22,500 seat stadium. Right now, it would be less seating, but it is not out of the question that they could go FBS since they have more resources than UIW.

McNeese State and NW LA State both have stadiums that can be FBS, but they need more money to fix up their facilities.

It seems the Tarleton State AD is looking at going FBS.

Central Oklahoma does have plans to go to 20,000 seats.

UCA, Jacksonville State, EKU, Kennesaw State and North Alabama could be affiliates as FBS football for the WAC in the future.

I just don't see UIW will be WAC anytime soon. They might need $100 million to upgrade all of their facilities.

Tarleton fans have stated that they plan to be FBS 4 years from now. I guess they will be an Indy and remain in the WAC because no one else would take them and they dont have the money or backing to actually make a big move like that and be ready for it with facilities in place etc. I have no idea what Abilene is planning, but they don't have especially high aspirations so the WAC is a good fit.

Its the others who are bolting, not the 2 mentioned above. Wherever the east Texas schools end up, that conference probably won't want Tarleton or Abilene. They could be included if somehow the entire Texas split off, but I don't see that happening.

Whatever kind of FCS arrangements those schools want to patch together in the meantime, fine, as it has little to do with the other WAC schools.