Sure, the Ivy League could offer full scholarships and move to FBS tomorrow if they chose to.

(03-14-2021 07:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 07:46 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-02-2020 06:24 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Navy's already in Temple's AAC.

Navy is in the Western Division of the AAC by their own choice. IOW, Navy is more interested in being in "Houston's AAC" than in "Temple's AAC".

Well, to be more precise, they are interested in SMU, Tulsa, and Tulane’s AAC—the private schools the believe they can compete with.

It's not just level of competition that makes the AAC West attractive, it's also the desire to have a more national schedule.

Having more of their games in one region of the country, and on top of that the region where having a football presence carries the least marketing benefit, is the opposite of what they want.

(03-14-2021 07:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 07:46 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-02-2020 06:24 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Navy's already in Temple's AAC.

Navy is in the Western Division of the AAC by their own choice. IOW, Navy is more interested in being in "Houston's AAC" than in "Temple's AAC".

Well, to be more precise, they are interested in SMU, Tulsa, and Tulane’s AAC—the private schools the believe they can compete with.

I don't think that's precise at all. They want to play in Texas every year, and being in a division with both Houston and SMU let's them do that. I doubt if they care much about Tulsa at all, and Tulane only insofar as it might help them recruit Naval Officers.

(12-02-2020 05:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  FBS power conference.

1.Boston College
2.Syracuse
3.Pittsburgh
4.Penn. State
5.Maryland
6.Rutgers
7.West Virginia
8.Virginia
9.Virginia Tech
10.UMass.
11.UConn.
12.Buffalo
13.Cincinnati
14.Navy as football only/Dayton


This lineup would be good on paper for football/basketball stand point.

Having Toledo as #14 (all sports) makes more sense than Navy/Dayton for football/basketball... A good rival for Cincy - northern/southern Ohio...

This UC grad would prefer UD/Navy. No offense.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

(03-14-2021 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 05:28 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  From Spring 1961 - “UB Hopes to Join New Football Conference” ? ?

Buffalo, Boston University, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Connecticut, Villanova, Temple, Massachusetts

https://twitter.com/shollander2/status/1...85995?s=20

Anyone know the history of this, with Temple and Nova, Holy Cross and BU, talking about this possibility? Obviously UConn, UMass, and Temple not moving up killed it, and Rutgers liked being Indy, playing multiple Ivy schools and Army.

It’s interesting that Colgate wasn’t mentioned. They would have fit the profile and geography.

Colgate is toothpaste, IMO.

(03-14-2021 05:28 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  From Spring 1961 - “UB Hopes to Join New Football Conference” ? ?

Buffalo, Boston University, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Connecticut, Villanova, Temple, Massachusetts

https://twitter.com/shollander2/status/1...85995?s=20

Anyone know the history of this, with Temple and Nova, Holy Cross and BU, talking about this possibility? Obviously UConn, UMass, and Temple not moving up killed it, and Rutgers liked being Indy, playing multiple Ivy schools and Army.

This is awesome and I’ve never come across this before.

From what I understand, moving up to a new division required the schedule to include a certain number of games vs. programs at that level.* You had the University Division and College Division, and I believe Temple was college division at that time, but it’s hard to know for sure with conflicting sources. Temple de-emphasized football in the early 50’s and it wasn’t until Wayne Hardin came along that they dropped from the Middle Atlantic and were back to being an Independent. I’m interested in looking into this a bit more.

Very cool stuff, and it would have been a good league.


*To clarify, sites like College Football Reference are great but they use their own methods to determine which program was major at the time and are no way official in that regard.

(03-14-2021 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 05:28 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  From Spring 1961 - “UB Hopes to Join New Football Conference” ? ?

Buffalo, Boston University, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Connecticut, Villanova, Temple, Massachusetts

https://twitter.com/shollander2/status/1...85995?s=20

Anyone know the history of this, with Temple and Nova, Holy Cross and BU, talking about this possibility? Obviously UConn, UMass, and Temple not moving up killed it, and Rutgers liked being Indy, playing multiple Ivy schools and Army.

It’s interesting that Colgate wasn’t mentioned. They would have fit the profile and geography.

I’m going to guess because Colgate wasn’t offering scholarships and was miming the Ivy League programs. Holy Cross didn’t de-emphasize until the 80’s, and it’s a damn shame they did because they had one of the best coaches in the sport at the time. A tragedy really.

(11-28-2020 09:23 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 08:47 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Completely Northeastern? No.

A Northeastern division of the conference? Sure. It wouldn't be a Power conference but there are some options.

Barring any defections from other conferences, there really isnt a viable path without realignment of the most foolish proportions:

UCONN
UMASS
Stony Brook
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Villanova
Georgetown
JMU
Delaware

No way in hell this happens, but these are the schools with the budget to move up...over time. I don’t see the NCAA approving another FBS G5 conference.

In order for this to happen, they would all have to go independent and then sign scheduling agreements in fb and basketball for 6 years and then petition to create an FBS conference.

Ain’t happening.

That's basically the old Yankee Conference/A-10 Football members with Georgetown and Stony Brook added on.

(11-27-2020 06:58 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  Maybe branded as the America East

• Connecticut
• Massachusetts
• Rhode Island
• New Hampshire
• Maine
• Stony Brook
• Albany
• Army? (probably not)
• New Mexico State? (bad geography, but like the opportunity)
  

The conference could agree to play with less than 85 scholarships so that it's not that huge of an additional expense than they're already doing, and now they can demand higher fees for "buy" games if they count as FBS wins, as well as getting to play in bowls and split the revenue.

If not, how can UConn and UMass stay viable in the FBS long-term?

A long time ago, yes, it would have been possible to have a northeast style Pac-12. Today, sadly, no. Northeasterners really do like FCS and if they want something more, it's not too far of a drive to a NFL or a nearby P5 stadium. Plus, and I am genuinely surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but it there is a lot of natural outdoor beauty in the Northeast. I would say that the Northeast has just as much natural beauty as the Pacific Northwest does.

(03-15-2021 10:02 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 05:28 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  From Spring 1961 - “UB Hopes to Join New Football Conference” ? ?

Buffalo, Boston University, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Connecticut, Villanova, Temple, Massachusetts

https://twitter.com/shollander2/status/1...85995?s=20

Anyone know the history of this, with Temple and Nova, Holy Cross and BU, talking about this possibility? Obviously UConn, UMass, and Temple not moving up killed it, and Rutgers liked being Indy, playing multiple Ivy schools and Army.

It’s interesting that Colgate wasn’t mentioned. They would have fit the profile and geography.

I’m going to guess because Colgate wasn’t offering scholarships and was miming the Ivy League programs. Holy Cross didn’t de-emphasize until the 80’s, and it’s a damn shame they did because they had one of the best coaches in the sport at the time. A tragedy really.

Delaware is the school that sticks out to me that wasn’t included. They were the only other Middle Atlantic program that could have moved up.

(03-15-2021 08:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2021 05:28 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  From Spring 1961 - “UB Hopes to Join New Football Conference” ? ?

Buffalo, Boston University, Holy Cross, Rutgers, Connecticut, Villanova, Temple, Massachusetts

https://twitter.com/shollander2/status/1...85995?s=20

Anyone know the history of this, with Temple and Nova, Holy Cross and BU, talking about this possibility? Obviously UConn, UMass, and Temple not moving up killed it, and Rutgers liked being Indy, playing multiple Ivy schools and Army.

It’s interesting that Colgate wasn’t mentioned. They would have fit the profile and geography.

Colgate is toothpaste, IMO.

They did try to expand their offerings

There were really no divisions before 1940s which made everybody including junior college to compete with each other. Conferences back then 2 and 4 year schools. The D3 conference with the all private schools had UCLA in that conference before the PAC 12 was formed. Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Idaho and Montana shared a northwest conference with College of Idaho and the D3 schools. That was before the PAC 12 was formed. As it is, all the FBS schools at one point shared a conference with schools from FCS, D2, D3, NAIA, NJCAA, USCAA and defunct schools. That is why the reference sites need to dig deeper into this.

A G5 level league in the northeast would be very hard to achieve.

Buffalo, Temple, and Navy all have conferences. Army might like a scheduling agreement that gets them a few games close to home, but overall they want a national schedule.

UMass and UConn will at best, commit to football only memberships, so you’d still need 8 full members to be legit.

Villanova isn’t going to commit to a move up, and like UConn, the best you could get from them is a football only deal.

Liberty has big aspirations and chances are someone would find them unacceptable.

Organizing a league at that level in that part of the country today is an exercise in herding cats

(03-16-2021 06:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A G5 level league in the northeast would be very hard to achieve.

Buffalo, Temple, and Navy all have conferences. Army might like a scheduling agreement that gets them a few games close to home, but overall they want a national schedule.

UMass and UConn will at best, commit to football only memberships, so you’d still need 8 full members to be legit.

Villanova isn’t going to commit to a move up, and like UConn, the best you could get from them is a football only deal.

Liberty has big aspirations and chances are someone would find them unacceptable.

Organizing a league at that level in that part of the country today is an exercise in herding cats

^This

It would be a hodgepodge of FBs and FCS schools. By and large, football isn’t a big thing in New England as evidenced by the number of football playing schools (not counting the Ivy League):

Maine - 1 FCS
New Hampshire - 1 FCS
Massachusetts- 2 FBS (1 P5/1 g5)
Connecticut - 1 (FBS)
New York - 4 3 FBS/1 FCS 1 P5/3g5)
New Jersey - 1 FBS P5
Rhode Island - 1 FCS

It makes ZERO... repeat, ZERO sense to try to do something like this. There is too much disparity in budget and resources among the schools that could possibly move up.

That list is missing Monmouth in NJ. Are there others missing?

(03-18-2021 10:39 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 06:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A G5 level league in the northeast would be very hard to achieve.

Buffalo, Temple, and Navy all have conferences. Army might like a scheduling agreement that gets them a few games close to home, but overall they want a national schedule.

UMass and UConn will at best, commit to football only memberships, so you’d still need 8 full members to be legit.

Villanova isn’t going to commit to a move up, and like UConn, the best you could get from them is a football only deal.

Liberty has big aspirations and chances are someone would find them unacceptable.

Organizing a league at that level in that part of the country today is an exercise in herding cats

^This

It would be a hodgepodge of FBs and FCS schools. By and large, football isn’t a big thing in New England as evidenced by the number of football playing schools (not counting the Ivy League):

Maine - 1 FCS
Vermont - 1 FCS
New Hampshire - 1 FCS
Massachusetts- 2 FBS (1 P5/1 g5)
Connecticut - 1 (FBS)
New York - 4 3 FBS/1 FCS 1 P5/3g5)
New Jersey - 1 FBS P5

It makes ZERO... repeat, ZERO sense to try to do something like this. There is too much disparity in budget and resources among the schools that could possibly move up.

Vermont doesn’t have an FCS school. New Hampshire has two in UNH and Dartmouth. You’re missing Rhode Island. And I’m pretty sure your info is wrong for NY and NJ. But you got Maine!

(03-18-2021 11:34 AM)VCE Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 10:39 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 06:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A G5 level league in the northeast would be very hard to achieve.

Buffalo, Temple, and Navy all have conferences. Army might like a scheduling agreement that gets them a few games close to home, but overall they want a national schedule.

UMass and UConn will at best, commit to football only memberships, so you’d still need 8 full members to be legit.

Villanova isn’t going to commit to a move up, and like UConn, the best you could get from them is a football only deal.

Liberty has big aspirations and chances are someone would find them unacceptable.

Organizing a league at that level in that part of the country today is an exercise in herding cats

^This

It would be a hodgepodge of FBs and FCS schools. By and large, football isn’t a big thing in New England as evidenced by the number of football playing schools (not counting the Ivy League):

Maine - 1 FCS
Vermont - 1 FCS
New Hampshire - 1 FCS
Massachusetts- 2 FBS (1 P5/1 g5)
Connecticut - 1 (FBS)
New York - 4 3 FBS/1 FCS 1 P5/3g5)
New Jersey - 1 FBS P5

It makes ZERO... repeat, ZERO sense to try to do something like this. There is too much disparity in budget and resources among the schools that could possibly move up.

Vermont doesn’t have an FCS school. New Hampshire has two in UNH and Dartmouth. You’re missing Rhode Island. And I’m pretty sure your info is wrong for NY and NJ. But you got Maine!

Yeah, I meant RI not VT.

Should have clarified by saying “schools that possibly could move to FBS”.

I left out the Ivy Leagues and schools with small budgets which would keep them fcs such as Wagner and Fordham.

Under that logic you can leave off Rhode Island, they're one of the least funded teams in the CAA

(03-18-2021 05:20 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 11:34 AM)VCE Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 10:39 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 06:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A G5 level league in the northeast would be very hard to achieve.

Buffalo, Temple, and Navy all have conferences. Army might like a scheduling agreement that gets them a few games close to home, but overall they want a national schedule.

UMass and UConn will at best, commit to football only memberships, so you’d still need 8 full members to be legit.

Villanova isn’t going to commit to a move up, and like UConn, the best you could get from them is a football only deal.

Liberty has big aspirations and chances are someone would find them unacceptable.

Organizing a league at that level in that part of the country today is an exercise in herding cats

^This

It would be a hodgepodge of FBs and FCS schools. By and large, football isn’t a big thing in New England as evidenced by the number of football playing schools (not counting the Ivy League):

Maine - 1 FCS
Vermont - 1 FCS
New Hampshire - 1 FCS
Massachusetts- 2 FBS (1 P5/1 g5)
Connecticut - 1 (FBS)
New York - 4 3 FBS/1 FCS 1 P5/3g5)
New Jersey - 1 FBS P5

It makes ZERO... repeat, ZERO sense to try to do something like this. There is too much disparity in budget and resources among the schools that could possibly move up.

Vermont doesn’t have an FCS school. New Hampshire has two in UNH and Dartmouth. You’re missing Rhode Island. And I’m pretty sure your info is wrong for NY and NJ. But you got Maine!

Yeah, I meant RI not VT.

Should have clarified by saying “schools that possibly could move to FBS”.

I left out the Ivy Leagues and schools with small budgets which would keep them fcs such as Wagner and Fordham.

NY has:
FBS (3): Syracuse, Army, Buffalo
FCS (7): Albany, Colgate, Fordham, LIU, Marist, Stony Brook, Wagner