(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Cancel culture is all about punishing people for wrongthink, even if the wrongthink is decades or even centuries old.

Personally, I don't think people should be punished for wrongthink. Especially if the wrongthink was the prevalent thinking during their era. Tolerance for other viewpoints is one of the hallmarks of being American. Well, it used to be.

This.

A perfect example is WMR. If you're so against him and what he did that you don't want to attend then that is a fair and reasonable choice... but to take what he endowed for all that it is worth and then to relegate the key person who made that all possible to a foot note is just ridiculous to me. If you want to 'end' him, that's fine. His estate/heirs should be able to 'take back' what they did

I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

And you should return your degree and pay back any scholly monies you got.

(03-03-2021 06:01 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Cancel culture is all about punishing people for wrongthink, even if the wrongthink is decades or even centuries old.

Personally, I don't think people should be punished for wrongthink. Especially if the wrongthink was the prevalent thinking during their era. Tolerance for other viewpoints is one of the hallmarks of being American. Well, it used to be.

This.

A perfect example is WMR. If you're so against him and what he did that you don't want to attend then that is a fair and reasonable choice... but to take what he endowed for all that it is worth and then to relegate the key person who made that all possible to a foot note is just ridiculous to me. If you want to 'end' him, that's fine. His estate/heirs should be able to 'take back' what they did

I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

And you should return your degree and pay back any scholly monies you got.

I am assuming that neither of you to have direct relatives that were slaves. I don’t either. I’m going to give those that fall into this category the benefit of the doubt that their discomfort is significant.

(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Cancel culture is all about punishing people for wrongthink, even if the wrongthink is decades or even centuries old.

Personally, I don't think people should be punished for wrongthink. Especially if the wrongthink was the prevalent thinking during their era. Tolerance for other viewpoints is one of the hallmarks of being American. Well, it used to be.

This.

A perfect example is WMR. If you're so against him and what he did that you don't want to attend then that is a fair and reasonable choice... but to take what he endowed for all that it is worth and then to relegate the key person who made that all possible to a foot note is just ridiculous to me. If you want to 'end' him, that's fine. His estate/heirs should be able to 'take back' what they did

I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

I mean, I guess you can compare your discomfort paying taxes with somebody else’s discomfort with a family history of enslavement but I wouldn’t go that route personally.

(03-03-2021 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 06:01 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  This.

A perfect example is WMR. If you're so against him and what he did that you don't want to attend then that is a fair and reasonable choice... but to take what he endowed for all that it is worth and then to relegate the key person who made that all possible to a foot note is just ridiculous to me. If you want to 'end' him, that's fine. His estate/heirs should be able to 'take back' what they did

I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

And you should return your degree and pay back any scholly monies you got.

I am assuming that neither of you to have direct relatives that were slaves. I don’t either. I’m going to give those that fall into this category the benefit of the doubt that their discomfort is significant.

These issues are inherently tough, and trying to draw an immobile line is a bit of a fool’s errand, IMO. I think too often these conversations focus on absolutes and extrapolate one decision to others.

The removal of a statue of the founder is a hugely impactful action, and I don’t think it’s clearly right or clearly wrong. I lean on the side of wrong, given the namesake and that owning slaves in that period wasn’t outside the norm. I’m also not aware of Rice being well known for being particularly cruel to slaves or anything like that. At the same time, I, like you, can’t put myself in others shoes and know that I don’t fully empathize with those positions. So I don’t want to dismiss those perspectives outright.

On smaller, less meaningful changes, I am more likely to either support of be agnostic about changes. Should Rice have changed the term Master? I frankly don’t care enough and have zero issue with it. I wouldn’t have advocated for it, but I certainly wouldnt have opposed it.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a Rice student who is not helped far more by William Marsh Rice's founding of Rice University that he/she is hurt by the fact that five generations ago his/her ancestors were slaves.

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me....

But I really have a hard time believing that someone applied to William Marsh Rice University... intends to trade off of that degree bearing that name for the better part of their life... who buys a shirt or hat or bumper sticker with that name on it... who proudly tells their friends that they attend this prestigious university bearing that man's name... who will put a diploma bearing his name on their walls...

but to have to walk past a statue that is really mostly a convenient path across campus or a tourist spot as opposed to a place that someone MUST pass frequently (I probably passed within 50 feet of Willie's statue 10 times in my 3 years on campus... at Will Rice College... I know not the founder, but still 'tainted', no?) is a bridge too far? I just have an incredibly hard time believing that... but I'd be willing to listen.

I personally know a few black former student-athletes who said something more along the lines of, they're laughing their asses off that this 'racist' footed the bill for their education.

If its foot traffic, I wouldn't have a big problem with moving it to in front of Lovett (the front drive/entrance) or some other similar place of significance, but less foot traffic... but ONLY if you can convince me that this is an actual meaningful issue as opposed to people simply looking for excuses to be offended and to 'affect change', even if such change is purely about appearances.

I wonder what will happen with Tecumseh at the Naval Academy?

(03-03-2021 11:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me....

Well... you're barking up the wrong tree on the Rice Parliament because it's certainly not going to be explained by a group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes.

(03-03-2021 10:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think you would be hard pressed to find a Rice student who is not helped far more by William Marsh Rice's founding of Rice University that he/she is hurt by the fact that five generations ago his/her ancestors were slaves.

Debatable.

(Slavery/racism/suppression of black wealth by various means) versus (William Marsh Rice paying for a university)?

The current black students at Rice could have gone to hundreds of universities that would have set them up for spectacular success. I'm pretty sure if you presented them the option of "no history of slavery" versus "no founding of Rice University" I know which way they would vote.

If it was really that big of an issue for someone, then they wouldn't have applied to Rice in the first place. Or, if they are somehow just learning that Rice had connections to slavery and the Civil War (as if the school's official colors weren't a giant flag advertising that), then they should make every effort to transfer. Not a right or wrong decision either way.

(03-03-2021 11:43 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  The current black students at Rice could have gone to hundreds of universities that would have set them up for spectacular success.

Many of which, including most of the Ivy League, were founded by people with ties to slavery (literally Elihu Yale's profession) or were funded by profits from the slave trade or related industries.

(03-04-2021 12:14 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:43 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  The current black students at Rice could have gone to hundreds of universities that would have set them up for spectacular success.

Many of which, including most of the Ivy League, were founded by people with ties to slavery (literally Elihu Yale's profession) or were funded by profits from the slave trade or related industries.

Agree... yet this doesn't take away from my point that these high-achieving black students at Rice would not have been just fine had WMR never founded Rice. I don't think that you are arguing that without slavery there would be no secondary education in the Unites States in 2021.

(03-03-2021 07:08 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Cancel culture is all about punishing people for wrongthink, even if the wrongthink is decades or even centuries old.

Personally, I don't think people should be punished for wrongthink. Especially if the wrongthink was the prevalent thinking during their era. Tolerance for other viewpoints is one of the hallmarks of being American. Well, it used to be.

This.

A perfect example is WMR. If you're so against him and what he did that you don't want to attend then that is a fair and reasonable choice... but to take what he endowed for all that it is worth and then to relegate the key person who made that all possible to a foot note is just ridiculous to me. If you want to 'end' him, that's fine. His estate/heirs should be able to 'take back' what they did

I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

I mean, I guess you can compare your discomfort paying taxes with somebody else’s discomfort with a family history of enslavement but I wouldn’t go that route personally.

The IRS statement was facetious and an attempt at humor, but it does illustrate, as did the other examples, that just because somebody does not like something that it does not follow that it should be abolished.

(03-03-2021 11:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me....

Well... you're barking up the wrong tree on the Rice Parliament because it's certainly not going to be explained by a group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes.

Not just racist, but ageist. Apparently I must STFU due to ethnicity and age.

(03-03-2021 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 06:01 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  This.

A perfect example is WMR. If you're so against him and what he did that you don't want to attend then that is a fair and reasonable choice... but to take what he endowed for all that it is worth and then to relegate the key person who made that all possible to a foot note is just ridiculous to me. If you want to 'end' him, that's fine. His estate/heirs should be able to 'take back' what they did

I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

And you should return your degree and pay back any scholly monies you got.

I am assuming that neither of you to have direct relatives that were slaves. I don’t either. I’m going to give those that fall into this category the benefit of the doubt that their discomfort is significant.

How far back may we go? My ancestry is primarily British, German, and Spanish, all of which were enslaved by the Romans, and 3% Jewish, who were enslaved by the Egyptians, and 5% Native American, who enslaved each other. No telling how many ancestors I have who were slaves. In fact, given the prevalence of slavery throughout history and on every continent, I doubt there is any human on this earth who has zero slaves in their genealogical tree, including you, 93.

(03-03-2021 11:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Well... you're barking up the wrong tree on the Rice Parliament because it's certainly not going to be explained by a group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes.

My child, you don't get to be old by being stupid.

(03-04-2021 01:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me....

Well... you're barking up the wrong tree on the Rice Parliament because it's certainly not going to be explained by a group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes.

Not just racist, but ageist. Apparently I must STFU due to ethnicity and age.

Conservative victimhood strikes again!

Here is the conversation above, that you responded to directly:

"but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad"

"I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me...."

You seriously took offense to saying that the Quad posters aren't either current or past black students?

You're certainly free to speak on this and offer your opinion. But that isn't really relevant to a conversation about hearing directly from black Rice students about their opinions...

(03-03-2021 11:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me....

But I really have a hard time believing that someone applied to William Marsh Rice University... intends to trade off of that degree bearing that name for the better part of their life... who buys a shirt or hat or bumper sticker with that name on it... who proudly tells their friends that they attend this prestigious university bearing that man's name... who will put a diploma bearing his name on their walls...

but to have to walk past a statue that is really mostly a convenient path across campus or a tourist spot as opposed to a place that someone MUST pass frequently (I probably passed within 50 feet of Willie's statue 10 times in my 3 years on campus... at Will Rice College... I know not the founder, but still 'tainted', no?) is a bridge too far? I just have an incredibly hard time believing that... but I'd be willing to listen.

I personally know a few black former student-athletes who said something more along the lines of, they're laughing their asses off that this 'racist' footed the bill for their education.

If its foot traffic, I wouldn't have a big problem with moving it to in front of Lovett (the front drive/entrance) or some other similar place of significance, but less foot traffic... but ONLY if you can convince me that this is an actual meaningful issue as opposed to people simply looking for excuses to be offended and to 'affect change', even if such change is purely about appearances.

I wonder what will happen with Tecumseh at the Naval Academy?

Two thoughts:

1) I'm really impressed at how infrequently you passed by Willy's statue.
I passed that statue almost every single day I was on campus.

But thinking about the university's layout, if you didn't have classes in the engineering quad or Herzstein, you don't really have a reason to go past it. Always interesting how different people's experiences at Rice are, even when the school is so small.

2) I think the perspective from your student-athlete friend is a good one, especially since their education and degree were paid for with their hard work representing the school. And while not all black students at Rice fit that bill, Rice has such a strong financial aid system, that it's likely that most student in the student body (sans-international students) are receiving some support from the institution.

One thing that gets overshadowed by those advocating for change is that, while Rice may have done abhorrent things with the benefit of hindsight to evaluate them, his legacy has created a university that continues to strive to do better.

Now, the whole all white charter business makes waters a bit murkier, as that is definitely a stain on our university. But again, I think we have made significant strides to address that in the past 50+ years.

(03-04-2021 01:11 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

I'd be willing to hear someone explain this to me....

Well... you're barking up the wrong tree on the Rice Parliament because it's certainly not going to be explained by a group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes.

Not just racist, but ageist. Apparently I must STFU due to ethnicity and age.

Don't be such a baby. He was saying that it would be nice to have an explanation about how black students feel regarding walking by the statue and I simply stated that we aren't going to get insight into that here.

(03-04-2021 01:17 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 07:06 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 06:01 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 05:58 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 04:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm a bit torn on the statue issue. I understand both the POV of both sides but I tend to listen to the black students who say that they are uncomfortable with the statue being in the quad. Therefore, if I were asked to vote, I would likely vote for the removal of the statue.

I'm not sure that moving his statue to a place that receives less foot-traffic is "relegating him to a foot note". Even completely removing the statue. I don't think there's any chance that Rice is going to change its name.

Why does that seem impossible to you? If WMR is so shameful we have to hide or remove the statue of the founder, it seems entirely logical to me that we eventually would be debating whether to change the name to "Freedom U." or "Sojourner Truth U.".

I foresee lots of schools having to change their names to satisfy this movement. Washington and Lee? There's a double whammy of slaveowners. I don't know who Brown, Yale, Harvard, Baylor or dozens of other schools were named after, or the detail of their lives or if those details measure up to modern race standards, but I doubt that many people from over 50 years back will measure up. When even Lincoln cannot appear as the name of a school in SF, it is not inconceivable.

If walking by a piece of rock makes somebody uncomfortable, don't walk by it. The Alamo makes me uncomfortable. The UT Tower makes me uncomfortable. The whole city of Waco makes me uncomfortable. The IRS office makes me uncomfortable.

If walking by the statue of the man who made your education possible makes you uncomfortable, I think you must be very ungrateful.

And you should return your degree and pay back any scholly monies you got.

I am assuming that neither of you to have direct relatives that were slaves. I don’t either. I’m going to give those that fall into this category the benefit of the doubt that their discomfort is significant.

How far back may we go? My ancestry is primarily British, German, and Spanish, all of which were enslaved by the Romans, and 3% Jewish, who were enslaved by the Egyptians, and 5% Native American, who enslaved each other. No telling how many ancestors I have who were slaves. In fact, given the prevalence of slavery throughout history and on every continent, I doubt there is any human on this earth who has zero slaves in their genealogical tree, including you, 93.

LOL that you equate how historical slavery in your remote lineage is somehow relevent to how slavery has affected current black Americans.

(03-04-2021 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-03-2021 11:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Well... you're barking up the wrong tree on the Rice Parliament because it's certainly not going to be explained by a group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes.

My child, you don't get to be old by being stupid.

Just saying that you're not going to get insight from current black students on this forum. I include myself in "group of mostly middle-age and older white dudes".