(02-21-2021 11:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lad, once again, what duties did Cruz 'cut and run' from? What 'work for his constituents' can he do as a a US Senator? Please do tell.

What official actions did Cruz abdicate?

Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

(02-21-2021 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 10:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  All AOC--and Robert Francis--really did was to start energizing their phone banks and donor bases for their next political runs. It's a fairly cheap trick. You get to build up your political databases under the guise of doing good.
Democrats are masters of this. Republicans don't have a clue about it. I'm really tired of one team going for the jugular and the other team standing by clueless.

I would love for any nationally-known Republican to raise those level of funds for Texas orgs right now. If political posturing also results in service to the community through wellness calls and direct donations to relief orgs, that is A-OK in my book.

That was kind of my point. Whatever funds democrats raise through efforts like this are crumbs compared to the value of the phone and email and contact information they generate. Democrats are masters of this. Republicans either don't know or don't care. That's what I mean about one party going for the jugular and the other playing for a tie. Never let a crisis go to waste.

How hard would it have been for Cruz to make a short video with, say, Mattress Mack, saying something like, "The last thing that the people dealing with the problem need is a VIP in the way, so I am getting out of the way for a few days with my children. In the meantime, my staff is available to assist in any way needed, since they are quite frankly the ones who do the work anyway. And I am teaming up with my buddy, Jim MacIngvale, to raise money for relief to Texans in this time of need. Here is Mack to give you all the details." Mack comes on, does his thing, in the end he gets a telephone/email list to send flyers to, and Cruz and republicans add to their phone and email databases.

I remember expressing my views on energy in a post in the spin room during the 2008 campaign. A leftist poster commented that my ideas had lots of merit, and that I should submit them to Obama, who was seeking ideas at a certain website. Assuming against belief that it was an honest attempt to gather ideas for evaluation and deliberation, I did so. I have yet to hear one word form Obama, his campaign, or his administration about energy policy. But I was immediately placed on every democrat fundraising email and telephone list in the country, where I remain to this day, choosing to stay there for comic relief and to know what the enemy is thinking. I still get more from democrats than from republicans, even republicans to whom I have made contributions.

(02-21-2021 11:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lad, once again, what duties did Cruz 'cut and run' from? What 'work for his constituents' can he do as a a US Senator? Please do tell.

What official actions did Cruz abdicate?

Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

No, you didnt.

Quote:Coordinated directly with FEMA.

Not official duty, further, aside from the 90,000 foot view of 'coordinate', please do tell what the fk that means? Nice oblique answer, but broad and unresponsive.

Quote:Worked with mayors and city official to try and understand what sort of federal assistance they could use.

See the answer above. You use broad ass words and concepts and try and drive that jalopy through a very specific question. So, how is '[Cruz] work[ing] with mayors and city official" any different, say, than Abbott's office? Or the FEMA people directly charged with this? And, what might Cruz know about 'what sort of Federal assistance they could use' that Abbott's officials be in the dark about, or for that matter, the FEMA peeps running this?

Quote:Talked with his constituents and provided resources to them directly.

Optics things now. Got it. How many turkeys does Ted and Hilda need to bake for the effort to 'provide them directly' to satisfy this very non-official role? How many sheets of cookies to satisfy you?

Funny, again, you didnt seem to answer in an iota any 'official things' that Ted abdicated, have you?

That is the problem with parroting a side's op ed. Amazing that.

As ham pointedly noted :

Quote: He could go hand out bottled water at the GRB or visit a taco truck giving away free food... but that is all theatre

None of it is official. Period.

And, like Ham, if there are no official duties, I dont begrudge ANYONE for bailing out and literally escaping the effects of what happened here.

And, it's okay to say you are wrong, as opposed to asking counter-questions that dont gain you any traction in light of the original question. But please continue to lean on your 'cut and run' scenario that seems to grabbed your attention.

Quote:Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

In terms of 'at the moment of emergency' and the very immediate preliminary steps, I dont see what impact a Senator can have except a cameo. The keys are local officials, state government emergency response, Governor's office, and the levers of state power that the state government can apply with potentially an aid from FEMA in acquisition.

I guess you think in the alternative, that Ted should be 'on the phone' telling CTEC to get power pronto to Huntley and Ethel's ranch outside of Harper? I mean, that is a fair counter rhetorical (and equally as stupid) question as the one you post above, so bummer, yes I threw it out there.

My view is that when I vote for state executive positions, I am voting on whom should exercise state responses to these matters. Much like I vote for my mayor, and sheriff. When I vote for a state rep or state senator, I am voting for them to exercise their vote in my stead as such at the state legislature; *not* to be a quasi- disaster planner and coordinator. And even more removed, when I vote for my Senator from Texas, what I am voting for is not for him to be an emergency coordinator, nor to really deal with state internal issues. He/she is my voice in Washington DC.

Funny thing, that is basic civics. Perhaps not when there is blood to be made.

(02-21-2021 01:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lad, once again, what duties did Cruz 'cut and run' from? What 'work for his constituents' can he do as a a US Senator? Please do tell.

What official actions did Cruz abdicate?

Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

No, you didnt.

Quote:Coordinated directly with FEMA.

Not official duty, further, aside from the 90,000 foot view of 'coordinate', please do tell what the fk that means? Nice oblique answer, but broad and unresponsive.

Quote:Worked with mayors and city official to try and understand what sort of federal assistance they could use.

See the answer above. You use broad ass words and concepts and try and drive that jalopy through a very specific question. So, how is '[Cruz] work[ing] with mayors and city official" any different, say, than Abbott's office? Or the FEMA people directly charged with this? And, what might Cruz know about 'what sort of Federal assistance they could use' that Abbott's officials be in the dark about, or for that matter, the FEMA peeps running this?

Quote:Talked with his constituents and provided resources to them directly.

Optics things now. Got it. How many turkeys does Ted and Hilda need to bake for the effort to 'provide them directly' to satisfy this very non-official role? How many sheets of cookies to satisfy you?

Funny, again, you didnt seem to answer in an iota any 'official things' that Ted abdicated, have you?

That is the problem with parroting a side's op ed. Amazing that.

As ham pointedly noted :

Quote: He could go hand out bottled water at the GRB or visit a taco truck giving away free food... but that is all theatre

None of it is official. Period.

And, like Ham, if there are no official duties, I dont begrudge ANYONE for bailing out and literally escaping the effects of what happened here.

And, it's okay to say you are wrong, as opposed to asking counter-questions that dont gain you any traction in light of the original question. But please continue to lean on your 'cut and run' scenario that seems to grabbed your attention.

Quote:Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

In terms of 'at the moment of emergency' and the very immediate preliminary steps, I dont see what impact a Senator can have except a cameo. The keys are local officials, state government emergency response, Governor's office, and the levers of state power that the state government can apply with potentially an aid from FEMA in acquisition.

I guess you think in the alternative, that Ted should be 'on the phone' telling CTEC to get power pronto to Huntley and Ethel's ranch outside of Harper? I mean, that is a fair counter rhetorical (and equally as stupid) question as the one you post above, so bummer, yes I threw it out there.

My view is that when I vote for state executive positions, I am voting on whom should exercise state responses to these matters. Much like I vote for my mayor, and sheriff. When I vote for a state rep or state senator, I am voting for them to exercise their vote in my stead as such at the state legislature; *not* to be a quasi- disaster planner and coordinator. And even more removed, when I vote for my Senator from Texas, what I am voting for is not for him to be an emergency coordinator, nor to really deal with state internal issues. He/she is my voice in Washington DC.

Funny thing, that is basic civics. Perhaps not when there is blood to be made.

Talked to a Biden-voter NeverTrumper who thought the whole Cruz thingie was overblown. I agree.

(02-20-2021 07:38 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Some of the $$ from AOC is going to the Houston food bank to pay for meals. I’ll pass along the news to those who eat the meals that the money supports that the aid is “nothing.” It isn’t plumbing, but it directly supports a vital service people need when they have no potable water or can’t purchase food at a grocery store.

I left this forum for a few weeks to see if anything changed... clearly it has not.

You took one word I said as part of a sentence, and used it in a different way as if I'd said it in THAT way... arguing as I have repeatedly said about you 'in the absurd'.

My comment was in response to a specific belief I noted that the money she raised could not make a dent, either financially or practically in the need for generators... which was a specific claim I noted. For you to take it out of context and apply it to food banks is just flat out wrong. You seem to continue to have no problem misrepresenting what people said to score cheap political points.

There is far too much witchery and sugar in the sentiments "for others" and "NOT for myself,"

(02-22-2021 04:33 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-20-2021 07:38 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Some of the $$ from AOC is going to the Houston food bank to pay for meals. I’ll pass along the news to those who eat the meals that the money supports that the aid is “nothing.” It isn’t plumbing, but it directly supports a vital service people need when they have no potable water or can’t purchase food at a grocery store.

I left this forum for a few weeks to see if anything changed... clearly it has not.

You took one word I said as part of a sentence, and used it in a different way as if I'd said it in THAT way... arguing as I have repeatedly said about you 'in the absurd'.

My comment was in response to a specific belief I noted that the money she raised could not make a dent, either financially or practically in the need for generators... which was a specific claim I noted. For you to take it out of context and apply it to food banks is just flat out wrong. You seem to continue to have no problem misrepresenting what people said to score cheap political points.

There is far too much witchery and sugar in the sentiments "for others" and "NOT for myself,"

"I heard that AOC raised $1mm for relief... and that's great... but for the +/- 6mm people impacted its nothing. I'd rather she pass some legislation to fix the problems or help people with plumbing expenses or what have you.... and that can be done next week. Somoene (not on here) argued that this money could have bought generators or water or other such drivel... ignoring that banks were closed, generators were sold, you'd have to decide whom among those 6mm people got helped... and then you'd have to somehow inform them about the assistance..."

That's the quote - I didn't take what you said out of context. If you had meant to talk about generators the entire time, that was definitely unclear, as it was an example at the end of the paragraph.

I made the point that this money will have a very real impact on some of those 6MM people by helping to feed them, because that is how it was being used. The way your wrote it, it clearly sounded like you were making the counter point to the claim that it would help people. In that paragraph, you mentioned buying water or paying for plumbing expenses as well as generators - so it appeared that generators were just another example of why you felt like the $$ wouldn't help people.

(02-21-2021 02:00 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 01:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lad, once again, what duties did Cruz 'cut and run' from? What 'work for his constituents' can he do as a a US Senator? Please do tell.

What official actions did Cruz abdicate?

Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

No, you didnt.

Quote:Coordinated directly with FEMA.

Not official duty, further, aside from the 90,000 foot view of 'coordinate', please do tell what the fk that means? Nice oblique answer, but broad and unresponsive.

Quote:Worked with mayors and city official to try and understand what sort of federal assistance they could use.

See the answer above. You use broad ass words and concepts and try and drive that jalopy through a very specific question. So, how is '[Cruz] work[ing] with mayors and city official" any different, say, than Abbott's office? Or the FEMA people directly charged with this? And, what might Cruz know about 'what sort of Federal assistance they could use' that Abbott's officials be in the dark about, or for that matter, the FEMA peeps running this?

Quote:Talked with his constituents and provided resources to them directly.

Optics things now. Got it. How many turkeys does Ted and Hilda need to bake for the effort to 'provide them directly' to satisfy this very non-official role? How many sheets of cookies to satisfy you?

Funny, again, you didnt seem to answer in an iota any 'official things' that Ted abdicated, have you?

That is the problem with parroting a side's op ed. Amazing that.

As ham pointedly noted :

Quote: He could go hand out bottled water at the GRB or visit a taco truck giving away free food... but that is all theatre

None of it is official. Period.

And, like Ham, if there are no official duties, I dont begrudge ANYONE for bailing out and literally escaping the effects of what happened here.

And, it's okay to say you are wrong, as opposed to asking counter-questions that dont gain you any traction in light of the original question. But please continue to lean on your 'cut and run' scenario that seems to grabbed your attention.

Quote:Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

In terms of 'at the moment of emergency' and the very immediate preliminary steps, I dont see what impact a Senator can have except a cameo. The keys are local officials, state government emergency response, Governor's office, and the levers of state power that the state government can apply with potentially an aid from FEMA in acquisition.

I guess you think in the alternative, that Ted should be 'on the phone' telling CTEC to get power pronto to Huntley and Ethel's ranch outside of Harper? I mean, that is a fair counter rhetorical (and equally as stupid) question as the one you post above, so bummer, yes I threw it out there.

My view is that when I vote for state executive positions, I am voting on whom should exercise state responses to these matters. Much like I vote for my mayor, and sheriff. When I vote for a state rep or state senator, I am voting for them to exercise their vote in my stead as such at the state legislature; *not* to be a quasi- disaster planner and coordinator. And even more removed, when I vote for my Senator from Texas, what I am voting for is not for him to be an emergency coordinator, nor to really deal with state internal issues. He/she is my voice in Washington DC.

Funny thing, that is basic civics. Perhaps not when there is blood to be made.

Talked to a Biden-voter NeverTrumper who thought the whole Cruz thingie was overblown. I agree.

Has anyone argued that he would have been out of contact at a hotel in Cancun, any more than he would have been in a private house in DC or Texas?
Granted, it's hard to hand out water bottles from across the border, but not hard to use a computer, or even the proverbial "pen and a phone" which five years ago were the effective instruments of executive (oops, I guess I mean legislative) power.

(02-21-2021 11:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lad, once again, what duties did Cruz 'cut and run' from? What 'work for his constituents' can he do as a a US Senator? Please do tell.

What official actions did Cruz abdicate?

Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

I think the true impact of high government muckety-mucks is in what they do in private by phone. Handing out water or singing to babies makes good photo ops, but has little real effect.

Back in 199x, my son was in Iowa when they had flooding. My son was working as a volunteer filling sand bags. President Clinton came in, they halted the operation and cleared the area so he could have his picture taken filling three bags. The overall impact was negative - three bags filled while dozens of volunteers were idled. I guess this is the type of stuff that Cruz could have done. Big whoop.

Nobody has argued that what Cruz did was a good thing. This is not a case of Cruz good, Cuomo bad. Both bad, just not equally bad. It is all, repeat, all about the way the MSM has pushed Cuomo to the back for actions that killed people and then were covered up, in favor of a furor and hoopla about Cruz going to Cancun. It is like putting stories of the Hillside Strangler on page 10 while plastering the front page with pissant crap about somebody who said a bad word.

(02-22-2021 04:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  "I heard that AOC raised $1mm for relief... and that's great... but for the +/- 6mm people impacted its nothing. I'd rather she pass some legislation to fix the problems or help people with plumbing expenses or what have you.... and that can be done next week. Somoene (not on here) argued that this money could have bought generators or water or other such drivel... ignoring that banks were closed, generators were sold, you'd have to decide whom among those 6mm people got helped... and then you'd have to somehow inform them about the assistance..."

That's the quote - I didn't take what you said out of context. If you had meant to talk about generators the entire time, that was definitely unclear, as it was an example at the end of the paragraph.

I made the point that this money will have a very real impact on some of those 6MM people by helping to feed them, because that is how it was being used. The way your wrote it, it clearly sounded like you were making the counter point to the claim that it would help people. In that paragraph, you mentioned buying water or paying for plumbing expenses as well as generators - so it appeared that generators were just another example of why you felt like the $$ wouldn't help people.

Yes you did take it out of context. You clearly tried to imply that I was doing ANYTHING other than comparing the size of the 'need' to the amount raised. That is the context of my comment, and you used it in a different context.... as if I had said that it would help 'nobody'.

$3mm/6mm people is 50 cents per person.... That's 'nothing'. Just as I said in my generator comparison, that doesn't mean that if you instead decided to only give the help to 'certain' people (however you decide that) that you couldn't provide meaningful help to those select few. This even gives you the benefit of assuming cash was actually an inhibitor to providing food... nothing I've read suggests that even to this point, that they haven't been able to purchase or distribute food because of a lack of cash.

In the alternative, I am sure there are MANY people who will have trouble making their homes liveable again due to a lack of cash for plumbing issues... but having said that, its going to take a lot more than $3mm to help everyone.... hence legislation. ANYONE can raise money. Only Cruz and AOC (and their ilk) can pass legislation.

If we're going to raise money from those with disposable cash, why don't we ever hold a fundraiser to eliminate the debt?

(02-22-2021 07:41 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 04:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  "I heard that AOC raised $1mm for relief... and that's great... but for the +/- 6mm people impacted its nothing. I'd rather she pass some legislation to fix the problems or help people with plumbing expenses or what have you.... and that can be done next week. Somoene (not on here) argued that this money could have bought generators or water or other such drivel... ignoring that banks were closed, generators were sold, you'd have to decide whom among those 6mm people got helped... and then you'd have to somehow inform them about the assistance..."

That's the quote - I didn't take what you said out of context. If you had meant to talk about generators the entire time, that was definitely unclear, as it was an example at the end of the paragraph.

I made the point that this money will have a very real impact on some of those 6MM people by helping to feed them, because that is how it was being used. The way your wrote it, it clearly sounded like you were making the counter point to the claim that it would help people. In that paragraph, you mentioned buying water or paying for plumbing expenses as well as generators - so it appeared that generators were just another example of why you felt like the $$ wouldn't help people.

Yes you did take it out of context. You clearly tried to imply that I was doing ANYTHING other than comparing the size of the 'need' to the amount raised. That is the context of my comment, and you used it in a different context.... as if I had said that it would help 'nobody'.

$3mm/6mm people is 50 cents per person.... That's 'nothing'. Just as I said in my generator comparison, that doesn't mean that if you instead decided to only give the help to 'certain' people (however you decide that) that you couldn't provide meaningful help to those select few. This even gives you the benefit of assuming cash was actually an inhibitor to providing food... nothing I've read suggests that even to this point, that they haven't been able to purchase or distribute food because of a lack of cash.

In the alternative, I am sure there are MANY people who will have trouble making their homes liveable again due to a lack of cash for plumbing issues... but having said that, its going to take a lot more than $3mm to help everyone.... hence legislation. ANYONE can raise money. Only Cruz and AOC (and their ilk) can pass legislation.

If we're going to raise money from those with disposable cash, why don't we ever hold a fundraiser to eliminate the debt?

You just got mad at me because you said $$ wouldn’t make a dent in the need for generators. Now you’re broadening it to the scope in general...

My response was to the broader point you’ve now gotten to, which is that these funds will make a noticeable dent for those who are positively impacted by the organizations that provide services.

You’re absolutely right that more money is needed, and that this is not sufficient to make everyone whole. But we shouldn’t trivialize these efforts in the immediate wake of the disaster. Much better to have such large donations than to not have them.

BTW, Congress wasn’t even in session in DC when the storm hit - hence Cruz being home. So I don’t know how well your pivot to legislating hits the mark.

Regardless, I’ll take elected officials getting their hands dirty and directly helping people affected by a natural disaster to those fleeing the scene with no plans to work any day of the week.

(02-22-2021 06:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 02:00 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 01:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lad, once again, what duties did Cruz 'cut and run' from? What 'work for his constituents' can he do as a a US Senator? Please do tell.

What official actions did Cruz abdicate?

Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

No, you didnt.

Quote:Coordinated directly with FEMA.

Not official duty, further, aside from the 90,000 foot view of 'coordinate', please do tell what the fk that means? Nice oblique answer, but broad and unresponsive.

Quote:Worked with mayors and city official to try and understand what sort of federal assistance they could use.

See the answer above. You use broad ass words and concepts and try and drive that jalopy through a very specific question. So, how is '[Cruz] work[ing] with mayors and city official" any different, say, than Abbott's office? Or the FEMA people directly charged with this? And, what might Cruz know about 'what sort of Federal assistance they could use' that Abbott's officials be in the dark about, or for that matter, the FEMA peeps running this?

Quote:Talked with his constituents and provided resources to them directly.

Optics things now. Got it. How many turkeys does Ted and Hilda need to bake for the effort to 'provide them directly' to satisfy this very non-official role? How many sheets of cookies to satisfy you?

Funny, again, you didnt seem to answer in an iota any 'official things' that Ted abdicated, have you?

That is the problem with parroting a side's op ed. Amazing that.

As ham pointedly noted :

Quote: He could go hand out bottled water at the GRB or visit a taco truck giving away free food... but that is all theatre

None of it is official. Period.

And, like Ham, if there are no official duties, I dont begrudge ANYONE for bailing out and literally escaping the effects of what happened here.

And, it's okay to say you are wrong, as opposed to asking counter-questions that dont gain you any traction in light of the original question. But please continue to lean on your 'cut and run' scenario that seems to grabbed your attention.

Quote:Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

In terms of 'at the moment of emergency' and the very immediate preliminary steps, I dont see what impact a Senator can have except a cameo. The keys are local officials, state government emergency response, Governor's office, and the levers of state power that the state government can apply with potentially an aid from FEMA in acquisition.

I guess you think in the alternative, that Ted should be 'on the phone' telling CTEC to get power pronto to Huntley and Ethel's ranch outside of Harper? I mean, that is a fair counter rhetorical (and equally as stupid) question as the one you post above, so bummer, yes I threw it out there.

My view is that when I vote for state executive positions, I am voting on whom should exercise state responses to these matters. Much like I vote for my mayor, and sheriff. When I vote for a state rep or state senator, I am voting for them to exercise their vote in my stead as such at the state legislature; *not* to be a quasi- disaster planner and coordinator. And even more removed, when I vote for my Senator from Texas, what I am voting for is not for him to be an emergency coordinator, nor to really deal with state internal issues. He/she is my voice in Washington DC.

Funny thing, that is basic civics. Perhaps not when there is blood to be made.

Talked to a Biden-voter NeverTrumper who thought the whole Cruz thingie was overblown. I agree.

Has anyone argued that he would have been out of contact at a hotel in Cancun, any more than he would have been in a private house in DC or Texas?
Granted, it's hard to hand out water bottles from across the border, but not hard to use a computer, or even the proverbial "pen and a phone" which five years ago were the effective instruments of executive (oops, I guess I mean legislative) power.

Honestly, had Cruz thought about it, he easily could have made this the play. Go to a place with electricity and broadband and get work done. Provide the support and contacts needed from afar, from a location with secure utilities. It would have been a win-win and proactive.

But clearly that was not the plan, given that he didn’t explain that from the start. He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

(02-22-2021 08:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 06:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 02:00 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 01:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 11:40 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Ive provided that response already.

Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

No, you didnt.

Quote:Coordinated directly with FEMA.

Not official duty, further, aside from the 90,000 foot view of 'coordinate', please do tell what the fk that means? Nice oblique answer, but broad and unresponsive.

Quote:Worked with mayors and city official to try and understand what sort of federal assistance they could use.

See the answer above. You use broad ass words and concepts and try and drive that jalopy through a very specific question. So, how is '[Cruz] work[ing] with mayors and city official" any different, say, than Abbott's office? Or the FEMA people directly charged with this? And, what might Cruz know about 'what sort of Federal assistance they could use' that Abbott's officials be in the dark about, or for that matter, the FEMA peeps running this?

Quote:Talked with his constituents and provided resources to them directly.

Optics things now. Got it. How many turkeys does Ted and Hilda need to bake for the effort to 'provide them directly' to satisfy this very non-official role? How many sheets of cookies to satisfy you?

Funny, again, you didnt seem to answer in an iota any 'official things' that Ted abdicated, have you?

That is the problem with parroting a side's op ed. Amazing that.

As ham pointedly noted :

Quote: He could go hand out bottled water at the GRB or visit a taco truck giving away free food... but that is all theatre

None of it is official. Period.

And, like Ham, if there are no official duties, I dont begrudge ANYONE for bailing out and literally escaping the effects of what happened here.

And, it's okay to say you are wrong, as opposed to asking counter-questions that dont gain you any traction in light of the original question. But please continue to lean on your 'cut and run' scenario that seems to grabbed your attention.

Quote:Do you subscribe to the idea that a sitting US Senator doesn’t have the ability to make any impact at all?

In terms of 'at the moment of emergency' and the very immediate preliminary steps, I dont see what impact a Senator can have except a cameo. The keys are local officials, state government emergency response, Governor's office, and the levers of state power that the state government can apply with potentially an aid from FEMA in acquisition.

I guess you think in the alternative, that Ted should be 'on the phone' telling CTEC to get power pronto to Huntley and Ethel's ranch outside of Harper? I mean, that is a fair counter rhetorical (and equally as stupid) question as the one you post above, so bummer, yes I threw it out there.

My view is that when I vote for state executive positions, I am voting on whom should exercise state responses to these matters. Much like I vote for my mayor, and sheriff. When I vote for a state rep or state senator, I am voting for them to exercise their vote in my stead as such at the state legislature; *not* to be a quasi- disaster planner and coordinator. And even more removed, when I vote for my Senator from Texas, what I am voting for is not for him to be an emergency coordinator, nor to really deal with state internal issues. He/she is my voice in Washington DC.

Funny thing, that is basic civics. Perhaps not when there is blood to be made.

Talked to a Biden-voter NeverTrumper who thought the whole Cruz thingie was overblown. I agree.

Has anyone argued that he would have been out of contact at a hotel in Cancun, any more than he would have been in a private house in DC or Texas?
Granted, it's hard to hand out water bottles from across the border, but not hard to use a computer, or even the proverbial "pen and a phone" which five years ago were the effective instruments of executive (oops, I guess I mean legislative) power.

Honestly, had Cruz thought about it, he easily could have made this the play. Go to a place with electricity and broadband and get work done. Provide the support and contacts needed from afar, from a location with secure utilities. It would have been a win-win and proactive.

But clearly that was not the plan, given that he didn’t explain that from the start. He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

You just made a couple of norm bending statements...

"But clearly that (i.e. go to a place and get work done) was not the plan"

Hate to tell you that *no one* takes a trip these days without work some work impinging. But here, you lead us to believe that the intent was to do nothing -- that is not even bother.

First, you pull this out of thin ait; then fill it in with specious reasoning; then come to a specious endpoint.

Assuming the worst, do you seriously believe that Cruz 'wasnt going to take advantage of broadband' and studiously ignore anything and everything for the duration?

Or is this the brand new certainty that is now bedrock reality for you?

(02-22-2021 08:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

These may be the two most sordid parts of the whole story:
- that one of their friends leaked their text messages to the press, and
- that Cruz's first excuse was to blame his family.

Both actions are pretty hideous.

(02-22-2021 09:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 08:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 06:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 02:00 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 01:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  No, you didnt.


Not official duty, further, aside from the 90,000 foot view of 'coordinate', please do tell what the fk that means? Nice oblique answer, but broad and unresponsive.


See the answer above. You use broad ass words and concepts and try and drive that jalopy through a very specific question. So, how is '[Cruz] work[ing] with mayors and city official" any different, say, than Abbott's office? Or the FEMA people directly charged with this? And, what might Cruz know about 'what sort of Federal assistance they could use' that Abbott's officials be in the dark about, or for that matter, the FEMA peeps running this?


Optics things now. Got it. How many turkeys does Ted and Hilda need to bake for the effort to 'provide them directly' to satisfy this very non-official role? How many sheets of cookies to satisfy you?

Funny, again, you didnt seem to answer in an iota any 'official things' that Ted abdicated, have you?

That is the problem with parroting a side's op ed. Amazing that.

As ham pointedly noted :
None of it is official. Period.

And, like Ham, if there are no official duties, I dont begrudge ANYONE for bailing out and literally escaping the effects of what happened here.

And, it's okay to say you are wrong, as opposed to asking counter-questions that dont gain you any traction in light of the original question. But please continue to lean on your 'cut and run' scenario that seems to grabbed your attention.


In terms of 'at the moment of emergency' and the very immediate preliminary steps, I dont see what impact a Senator can have except a cameo. The keys are local officials, state government emergency response, Governor's office, and the levers of state power that the state government can apply with potentially an aid from FEMA in acquisition.

I guess you think in the alternative, that Ted should be 'on the phone' telling CTEC to get power pronto to Huntley and Ethel's ranch outside of Harper? I mean, that is a fair counter rhetorical (and equally as stupid) question as the one you post above, so bummer, yes I threw it out there.

My view is that when I vote for state executive positions, I am voting on whom should exercise state responses to these matters. Much like I vote for my mayor, and sheriff. When I vote for a state rep or state senator, I am voting for them to exercise their vote in my stead as such at the state legislature; *not* to be a quasi- disaster planner and coordinator. And even more removed, when I vote for my Senator from Texas, what I am voting for is not for him to be an emergency coordinator, nor to really deal with state internal issues. He/she is my voice in Washington DC.

Funny thing, that is basic civics. Perhaps not when there is blood to be made.

Talked to a Biden-voter NeverTrumper who thought the whole Cruz thingie was overblown. I agree.

Has anyone argued that he would have been out of contact at a hotel in Cancun, any more than he would have been in a private house in DC or Texas?
Granted, it's hard to hand out water bottles from across the border, but not hard to use a computer, or even the proverbial "pen and a phone" which five years ago were the effective instruments of executive (oops, I guess I mean legislative) power.

Honestly, had Cruz thought about it, he easily could have made this the play. Go to a place with electricity and broadband and get work done. Provide the support and contacts needed from afar, from a location with secure utilities. It would have been a win-win and proactive.

But clearly that was not the plan, given that he didn’t explain that from the start. He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

You just made a couple of norm bending statements...

"But clearly that (i.e. go to a place and get work done) was not the plan"

Hate to tell you that *no one* takes a trip these days without work some work impinging. But here, you lead us to believe that the intent was to do nothing -- that is not even bother.

First, you pull this out of thin ait; then fill it in with specious reasoning; then come to a specious endpoint.

Assuming the worst, do you seriously believe that Cruz 'wasnt going to take advantage of broadband' and studiously ignore anything and everything for the duration?

Or is this the brand new certainty that is now bedrock reality for you?

Just use your brain - had Cruz planned to work remotely, he wouldn't have lied about why he was going on the trip.

Seriously, if Cruz's personal intention of going to Cancun was to remotely work, why not say that?

You could be right that Cruz was planning to work remotely all along. But if that's the case, and Cruz responded the way he did, he is an undeniable and massive idiot.

You're certainly correct that any vacation taken these days does not keep someone from working - I never suggested that, despite another Tanq effort to say I did. But people either intentionally plan to work remotely, and bring the equipment/support to assist with that, or they don't. And in this case, logic says Cruz wasn't planning to work remotely because his first response to being reported abroad was to throw his daughters' under the bus and lie about how long his trip was supposed to be...

(02-22-2021 11:29 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 08:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

These may be the two most sordid parts of the whole story:
- that one of their friends leaked their text messages to the press, and
- that Cruz's first excuse was to blame his family.

Both actions are pretty hideous.

To the first line - I saw some hot takes along the lines of "no wonder you saw so many Beto signs in River Oaks" because of how unfavorable the Cruz's seem to be viewed by their peers in Houston.

I don't think that action is "hideous" though, given that the texts were released after Cruz perpetuated the lie to the press. I kind of appreciate that others were willing to hold Cruz accountable for saying his daughters' pressured him and his wife into taking the trip. Had Cruz not lied to the press, then the breach of trust would be much worse.

It's a good example of how tough life can be for a politician's family, fair or unfair.

A lot of people just don't like him. Personally I don't see that much to dislike about him. Just another politician.

What seems odd to me is that a lot of the people, AKA the Identity party, who dislike him are the same ones clamoring for a [fill in the blank with a minority] for this post or that one, but when it comes to this hispanic, they don't want him. He's yucky!

I think the most reprehensible and disagreeable person in congress is Adam Schiff. I always marvel at how he survived middle school, as often as he must have been stuffed in his locker. Makes me think of Young Sheldon, but without the warmth.

(02-22-2021 08:36 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  You just got mad at me because you said $$ wouldn’t make a dent in the need for generators. Now you’re broadening it to the scope in general...

Don't you EVER get tired of telling people what they think or feel?

YOU broadened the scope, Lad... taking my comment out of context... that was my point (and to the mild extent that I got 'mad', what made me 'mad'. I've come to expect it of you) and you said you didn't at first, and now you admit that you did.

Quote:My response was to the broader point you’ve now gotten to, which is that these funds will make a noticeable dent for those who are positively impacted by the organizations that provide services.

No it wasn't. Your point was to imply that I said it WOULDN'T make a difference.... which I didn't do. Had the above been your point, you could have made your point without the snarky comment towards me, since what you said and what I said are not inconsistent with each other.

It is the simple difference between a polite 'while it doesn't address the whole issue, it CAN make a difference to a few people' and a petty 'I'll be sure to tell those people she helped that you said it was 'nothing''. That's the difference between you making a point, and you misrepresenting someone else's in order to try and belittle it.

You ignore that I mentioned that my family and I effectively did 'nothing' ourselves, helping people on our street... which is NOTHING compared to the need, but it certainly helps those we helped.

I don't have the ability to sponsor or enact legislation. While I appreciate her efforts here, her skills and position are much better suited towards passing legislation that might address the ENTIRE problem (which only about 537 people in the country have the power to do) or to putting mechanisms in place such that some sort of 'urgent fundraising' for a disaster was unnecessary. She may still do that... and THAT would (imo) be a much better use of her skills and position. How much media attention would that get though?

Quote:You’re absolutely right that more money is needed, and that this is not sufficient to make everyone whole. But we shouldn’t trivialize these efforts in the immediate wake of the disaster. Much better to have such large donations than to not have them.

Which is why I said it was nice. You've diefied her actions FAR more than I've trivialized them.

Quote:BTW, Congress wasn’t even in session in DC when the storm hit - hence Cruz being home. So I don’t know how well your pivot to legislating hits the mark.

Which once again, implies that there was/is timeliness to this effort (other than media attention)... which I have seen zero evidence of. They could have passed the bill two weeks ago when they were in session, and FEMA would have had 50byn more. If the problem was that the food bank didn't have funds to buy food, this would have been necessary.... but that wasn't the problem.

Quote:Regardless, I’ll take elected officials getting their hands dirty and directly helping people affected by a natural disaster to those fleeing the scene with no plans to work any day of the week.

If I need my plumbing fixed, I'm not calling Cruz or AOC. Are you? If I need to make sure that cashflow isn't an issue for a food bank in a disaster, I'm calling AOC or Cruz. Biden specifically said he wasn't coming down here because he would be in the way. I haven't in any way trivialized her acts... I have merely made note of the clear fact that this was not a completely selfless act... and I have some mild distaste for the politicization of disasters like this. Joe Biden seems to agree. Would she have done it if Cruz had been getting his own hands dirty? I doubt it. WOuldn't her efforts STILL have been better than to not have them under those circumstances? Of course. There have been other disasters and she didn't personally get involved. Why not? Even my son, who actually voted for her in Queens (though he now lives in Manhattan, he never moved his registration) GLOATS at the political opportunism.

Raising money is fine... and certainly better than doing nothing... but the value to her AND the party in terms of political capital is a vast multiple of the money raised. This is a good investment for democrats, and I'm sure its been internally sold as such.

I do though find it funny that you imply that elected officials should 'get their hands dirty' during a disaster but they can't do ANYTHING when Congress isn't 'in session'. PLENTY of things have happened while Congress has been 'out'... especially on relatively small measures like a few mm for food banks. If nothing else, they reach agreements with other key members (including perhaps the President through an EO) to 'let something slide' or to 'allow a temporary transfer of funds' with the understanding that it will be addressed in 'the next bill'.

If you disagree with my position, that's fine... say so. Instead you seem to do nothing but try and rephrase what others have said to trivialize the position you have now assigned to them.

Perfect example... I just saw on Yahoo a picture of Cruz putting water bottles into someone's trunk... While his supporters may say 'getting his hands dirty' or that 'him doing this is still better than him doing nothing or going to Mexico', I'd still say that he's just practicing political theatre... and because of the circumstances, it is unbelievably transparent and probably even to his supporters, does more harm than good (because of its transparency). Its stupid... In my mind, he's actually compounding his poor optics. He ignored the optics going in, and now he's a 'slave' to them? Jesus.

Also FTR, while he's doing this I also saw that the house committee passed the 1.9 trillion stimulus... while Cruz was handing out water and I guess AOC is still tweeting for donations.

(02-23-2021 08:30 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 09:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 08:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 06:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 02:00 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Talked to a Biden-voter NeverTrumper who thought the whole Cruz thingie was overblown. I agree.

Has anyone argued that he would have been out of contact at a hotel in Cancun, any more than he would have been in a private house in DC or Texas?
Granted, it's hard to hand out water bottles from across the border, but not hard to use a computer, or even the proverbial "pen and a phone" which five years ago were the effective instruments of executive (oops, I guess I mean legislative) power.

Honestly, had Cruz thought about it, he easily could have made this the play. Go to a place with electricity and broadband and get work done. Provide the support and contacts needed from afar, from a location with secure utilities. It would have been a win-win and proactive.

But clearly that was not the plan, given that he didn’t explain that from the start. He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

You just made a couple of norm bending statements...

"But clearly that (i.e. go to a place and get work done) was not the plan"

Hate to tell you that *no one* takes a trip these days without work some work impinging. But here, you lead us to believe that the intent was to do nothing -- that is not even bother.

First, you pull this out of thin ait; then fill it in with specious reasoning; then come to a specious endpoint.

Assuming the worst, do you seriously believe that Cruz 'wasnt going to take advantage of broadband' and studiously ignore anything and everything for the duration?

Or is this the brand new certainty that is now bedrock reality for you?

Just use your brain - had Cruz planned to work remotely, he wouldn't have lied about why he was going on the trip.

Funny thing, I seem to remember a slew of people telling me that, based on what was *not* said*, I was off base designating specific intent.

Care to guess who that might be? I can think of two right off the bat.

Awesome job being our omniscient know it all into someone else's intent, intentions, and reson d'etre. Pretty fing impressive there. You are seemingly wasting good years out of your life drilling holes, not to mention the disservice you are paying to world by keeping your all knowing knowledge of everyone's intent and intention at all times from being used more often. <slow clap>

Quote:You're certainly correct that any vacation taken these days does not keep someone from working - I never suggested that, despite another Tanq effort to say I did.

Perhaps, in addition to your omniscient know it all on everyone's intention, perhaps you should read some of my words in context. I am throwing out there that the vast majority of us know we can get stuff done at a distance --- But instead *you* are saying conclusively that Mr Cruz did not intend to do so at the slightest. But please feel free to mischaracterize the comment.

Quote: But people either intentionally plan to work remotely, and bring the equipment/support to assist with that, or they don't. And in this case, logic says Cruz wasn't planning to work remotely because his first response to being reported abroad was to throw his daughters' under the bus and lie about how long his trip was supposed to be...

Actually logic doesnt say anything of if, or how much Cruz was planning to do. It is *your* omniscience that derives that from that. But, hey, Im a mere mortal, and for some odd fing reason I dont think I can read minds. Apparently you do. Got it.

And lastly, for your puerile ad hom of 'use your brain', perhaps you can now understand *why* I characterized you as an arrogant as **** dude. Funny that.

(02-23-2021 05:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 08:30 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 09:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 08:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-22-2021 06:07 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Has anyone argued that he would have been out of contact at a hotel in Cancun, any more than he would have been in a private house in DC or Texas?
Granted, it's hard to hand out water bottles from across the border, but not hard to use a computer, or even the proverbial "pen and a phone" which five years ago were the effective instruments of executive (oops, I guess I mean legislative) power.

Honestly, had Cruz thought about it, he easily could have made this the play. Go to a place with electricity and broadband and get work done. Provide the support and contacts needed from afar, from a location with secure utilities. It would have been a win-win and proactive.

But clearly that was not the plan, given that he didn’t explain that from the start. He threw his daughters under the bus, then his wife’s text thread about a vacation was leaked.

You just made a couple of norm bending statements...

"But clearly that (i.e. go to a place and get work done) was not the plan"

Hate to tell you that *no one* takes a trip these days without work some work impinging. But here, you lead us to believe that the intent was to do nothing -- that is not even bother.

First, you pull this out of thin ait; then fill it in with specious reasoning; then come to a specious endpoint.

Assuming the worst, do you seriously believe that Cruz 'wasnt going to take advantage of broadband' and studiously ignore anything and everything for the duration?

Or is this the brand new certainty that is now bedrock reality for you?

Just use your brain - had Cruz planned to work remotely, he wouldn't have lied about why he was going on the trip.

Funny thing, I seem to remember a slew of people telling me that, based on what was *not* said*, I was off base designating specific intent.

Care to guess who that might be? I can think of two right off the bat.

Awesome job being our omniscient know it all into someone else's intent, intentions, and reson d'etre. Pretty fing impressive there. You are seemingly wasting good years out of your life drilling holes, not to mention the disservice you are paying to world by keeping your all knowing knowledge of everyone's intent and intention at all times from being used more often. <slow clap>

Seriously, what's your issue with my profession?

You keep bringing it up in a denigrating and condescending way, as if it's relevant to any of these conversations.

Regardless of your seemingly odd focus on one aspect of my job being related to drilling, it seems odd that you think people can't use context clues to infer someone's intentions.