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When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1
When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
There are several reasons for this.

1. It will allow the opportunity for schools to play more often.

2. It will be more fair than moving to 9 games. The differential of 4 home and 5 away would be balanced only by the subsequent season. In my opinion, that's not really sufficient to balance competition.

3. Financially, it will provide the ability to sell more games to TV networks. The precise number would depend on how many we expanded with, but here's some cursory math.

Current output: 14 teams x 8 games = 56 games

14 teams x 9 games = 63 games
14 teams x 10 games = 70 games

16 teams x 9 games = 72 games
16 teams x 10 games = 80 games

18 teams x 9 games = 81 games
18 teams x 10 games = 90 games

20 teams x 9 games = 90 games
20 teams x 10 games = 100 games

Just based on this factor alone, the amount of market share we could assume is quite significant.

Now it would depend on who we add as to what the ultimate value of those games were, but the average value of each game could increase depending on who the addition is.
01-27-2021 05:21 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
I think it's a good idea. The major con in this is everyone wants 7 home games as well as maintaining OOC rivalries or big name OOC opponents. I think for this to work, expansion to a 14 game season would be needed. But overall, I like it.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2021 06:24 PM by ClairtonPanther.)
01-27-2021 06:24 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-27-2021 06:24 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think it's a good idea. The major con in this is everyone wants 7 home games as well as maintaining OOC rivalries or big name OOC opponents. I think for this to work, expansion to a 14 game season would be needed. But overall, I like it.

It is not necessary to move to 14 games. What people forget is that when you expand you are simply making conference games out of former OOC opponents. 5 home 5 away with 2 buy games still gives everyone 7 games. When SEC games are worth more to the networks than OOC rivalry games those OOC rivalry games will stop.

Kentucky will play Tennessee the last game of the season.
Georgia will play Florida the last game of the season.
And South Carolina (the only one who will gripe) will simply play 6 home games one year and 7 the next and use one of their buy games for Clemson.

Depending on who it is that joins all of the games in the West may be covered in conference.
01-27-2021 06:37 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
I think that ESPN would still push for those OOC games. Especially the games in Jerry's World between the likes of an Auburn vs Virginia Tech or Ohio State vs LSU, for argument's sake. I think dropping divisions and locking into say 3 schools would go a long way in fixing scheduling as well. But overall a 10 game conference schedule is very appealing.
01-27-2021 07:40 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-27-2021 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think that ESPN would still push for those OOC games. Especially the games in Jerry's World between the likes of an Auburn vs Virginia Tech or Ohio State vs LSU, for argument's sake. I think dropping divisions and locking into say 3 schools would go a long way in fixing scheduling as well. But overall a 10 game conference schedule is very appealing.

Why? You would spoil bowl and CFP games by playing these match ups in the regular season. The SEC realized how well it did playing 10 SEC games this year in spite of COVID. Florida and Georgia have little incentive. Kentucky didn't want the game with Louisville. Only South Carolina wants the game and who knows, Clemson may not.

Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma are all games better left to the post season and Florida / FSU would draw a lot more for a bowl game than regular season. ESPN is realizing this as well. Want more content you up the number of conference games and add brands. Whether a Texas or Oklahoma the number and quantity go way up. Also the SEC loses money playing OOC games when in conference games earn more and all the revenue over 2 years (home and away) stays in the house.
01-27-2021 08:53 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
Good idea IMO. I would rather see ten conference games than an exciting ratings buster game with the Delaware Hens, or some of these schools we are adding as filler to our schedules.
01-28-2021 12:00 AM
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-28-2021 12:00 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Good idea IMO. I would rather see ten conference games than an exciting ratings buster game with the Delaware Hens, or some of these schools we are adding as filler to our schedules.

Hold up.

Delaware is finally scheduling FBS teams in football?
01-28-2021 07:00 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-27-2021 08:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think that ESPN would still push for those OOC games. Especially the games in Jerry's World between the likes of an Auburn vs Virginia Tech or Ohio State vs LSU, for argument's sake. I think dropping divisions and locking into say 3 schools would go a long way in fixing scheduling as well. But overall a 10 game conference schedule is very appealing.

Why? You would spoil bowl and CFP games by playing these match ups in the regular season. The SEC realized how well it did playing 10 SEC games this year in spite of COVID. Florida and Georgia have little incentive. Kentucky didn't want the game with Louisville. Only South Carolina wants the game and who knows, Clemson may not.

Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma are all games better left to the post season and Florida / FSU would draw a lot more for a bowl game than regular season. ESPN is realizing this as well. Want more content you up the number of conference games and add brands. Whether a Texas or Oklahoma the number and quantity go way up. Also the SEC loses money playing OOC games when in conference games earn more and all the revenue over 2 years (home and away) stays in the house.

It was a good experiment all in all.

But there are ways to balance some of these priorities.

Let's say we expanded with 6 schools. The primary goal there is a 20 team league would be very conducive to a 4-team conference playoff. It would also create tons of fresh games every year without having to go out of conference. That's in addition to the value of the TV contract when you lookout the number of games.

Texas will probably want Texas Tech. That's fine with me. Oklahoma and Kansas both make sense.

The final 2? That would be an interesting debate. There aren't really a lot of flagships available at this stage. I say go for a couple of up and comers and just help them develop. It will pay off in the end and it will help maintain the balance of power in the meantime.

I say South Florida and Cincinnati.

Why UC? Even with their limited funds, they have proven to be more interested in competing than many P5 schools. South Florida is probably a strong contender in the next generation just based on the alumni base alone.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri
South: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Central: Alabama, Auburn, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, Cincinnati

-10 conference games
-conference semis for the championship
-19 game basketball schedule...round robin format
01-29-2021 12:29 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #9
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 12:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 08:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think that ESPN would still push for those OOC games. Especially the games in Jerry's World between the likes of an Auburn vs Virginia Tech or Ohio State vs LSU, for argument's sake. I think dropping divisions and locking into say 3 schools would go a long way in fixing scheduling as well. But overall a 10 game conference schedule is very appealing.

Why? You would spoil bowl and CFP games by playing these match ups in the regular season. The SEC realized how well it did playing 10 SEC games this year in spite of COVID. Florida and Georgia have little incentive. Kentucky didn't want the game with Louisville. Only South Carolina wants the game and who knows, Clemson may not.

Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma are all games better left to the post season and Florida / FSU would draw a lot more for a bowl game than regular season. ESPN is realizing this as well. Want more content you up the number of conference games and add brands. Whether a Texas or Oklahoma the number and quantity go way up. Also the SEC loses money playing OOC games when in conference games earn more and all the revenue over 2 years (home and away) stays in the house.

It was a good experiment all in all.

But there are ways to balance some of these priorities.

Let's say we expanded with 6 schools. The primary goal there is a 20 team league would be very conducive to a 4-team conference playoff. It would also create tons of fresh games every year without having to go out of conference. That's in addition to the value of the TV contract when you lookout the number of games.

Texas will probably want Texas Tech. That's fine with me. Oklahoma and Kansas both make sense.

The final 2? That would be an interesting debate. There aren't really a lot of flagships available at this stage. I say go for a couple of up and comers and just help them develop. It will pay off in the end and it will help maintain the balance of power in the meantime.

I say South Florida and Cincinnati.

Why UC? Even with their limited funds, they have proven to be more interested in competing than many P5 schools. South Florida is probably a strong contender in the next generation just based on the alumni base alone.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri
South: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Central: Alabama, Auburn, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, Cincinnati

-10 conference games
-conference semis for the championship
-19 game basketball schedule...round robin format

ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.
01-29-2021 12:53 AM
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Post: #10
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 12:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 08:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think that ESPN would still push for those OOC games. Especially the games in Jerry's World between the likes of an Auburn vs Virginia Tech or Ohio State vs LSU, for argument's sake. I think dropping divisions and locking into say 3 schools would go a long way in fixing scheduling as well. But overall a 10 game conference schedule is very appealing.

Why? You would spoil bowl and CFP games by playing these match ups in the regular season. The SEC realized how well it did playing 10 SEC games this year in spite of COVID. Florida and Georgia have little incentive. Kentucky didn't want the game with Louisville. Only South Carolina wants the game and who knows, Clemson may not.

Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma are all games better left to the post season and Florida / FSU would draw a lot more for a bowl game than regular season. ESPN is realizing this as well. Want more content you up the number of conference games and add brands. Whether a Texas or Oklahoma the number and quantity go way up. Also the SEC loses money playing OOC games when in conference games earn more and all the revenue over 2 years (home and away) stays in the house.

It was a good experiment all in all.

But there are ways to balance some of these priorities.

Let's say we expanded with 6 schools. The primary goal there is a 20 team league would be very conducive to a 4-team conference playoff. It would also create tons of fresh games every year without having to go out of conference. That's in addition to the value of the TV contract when you lookout the number of games.

Texas will probably want Texas Tech. That's fine with me. Oklahoma and Kansas both make sense.

The final 2? That would be an interesting debate. There aren't really a lot of flagships available at this stage. I say go for a couple of up and comers and just help them develop. It will pay off in the end and it will help maintain the balance of power in the meantime.

I say South Florida and Cincinnati.

Why UC? Even with their limited funds, they have proven to be more interested in competing than many P5 schools. South Florida is probably a strong contender in the next generation just based on the alumni base alone.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri
South: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Central: Alabama, Auburn, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, Cincinnati

-10 conference games
-conference semis for the championship
-19 game basketball schedule...round robin format

ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.

Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.
01-29-2021 04:10 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #11
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 04:10 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 08:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think that ESPN would still push for those OOC games. Especially the games in Jerry's World between the likes of an Auburn vs Virginia Tech or Ohio State vs LSU, for argument's sake. I think dropping divisions and locking into say 3 schools would go a long way in fixing scheduling as well. But overall a 10 game conference schedule is very appealing.

Why? You would spoil bowl and CFP games by playing these match ups in the regular season. The SEC realized how well it did playing 10 SEC games this year in spite of COVID. Florida and Georgia have little incentive. Kentucky didn't want the game with Louisville. Only South Carolina wants the game and who knows, Clemson may not.

Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma are all games better left to the post season and Florida / FSU would draw a lot more for a bowl game than regular season. ESPN is realizing this as well. Want more content you up the number of conference games and add brands. Whether a Texas or Oklahoma the number and quantity go way up. Also the SEC loses money playing OOC games when in conference games earn more and all the revenue over 2 years (home and away) stays in the house.

It was a good experiment all in all.

But there are ways to balance some of these priorities.

Let's say we expanded with 6 schools. The primary goal there is a 20 team league would be very conducive to a 4-team conference playoff. It would also create tons of fresh games every year without having to go out of conference. That's in addition to the value of the TV contract when you lookout the number of games.

Texas will probably want Texas Tech. That's fine with me. Oklahoma and Kansas both make sense.

The final 2? That would be an interesting debate. There aren't really a lot of flagships available at this stage. I say go for a couple of up and comers and just help them develop. It will pay off in the end and it will help maintain the balance of power in the meantime.

I say South Florida and Cincinnati.

Why UC? Even with their limited funds, they have proven to be more interested in competing than many P5 schools. South Florida is probably a strong contender in the next generation just based on the alumni base alone.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri
South: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Central: Alabama, Auburn, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, Cincinnati

-10 conference games
-conference semis for the championship
-19 game basketball schedule...round robin format

ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.

Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.

Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.
01-29-2021 04:35 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #12
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:10 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-27-2021 08:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Why? You would spoil bowl and CFP games by playing these match ups in the regular season. The SEC realized how well it did playing 10 SEC games this year in spite of COVID. Florida and Georgia have little incentive. Kentucky didn't want the game with Louisville. Only South Carolina wants the game and who knows, Clemson may not.

Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma are all games better left to the post season and Florida / FSU would draw a lot more for a bowl game than regular season. ESPN is realizing this as well. Want more content you up the number of conference games and add brands. Whether a Texas or Oklahoma the number and quantity go way up. Also the SEC loses money playing OOC games when in conference games earn more and all the revenue over 2 years (home and away) stays in the house.

It was a good experiment all in all.

But there are ways to balance some of these priorities.

Let's say we expanded with 6 schools. The primary goal there is a 20 team league would be very conducive to a 4-team conference playoff. It would also create tons of fresh games every year without having to go out of conference. That's in addition to the value of the TV contract when you lookout the number of games.

Texas will probably want Texas Tech. That's fine with me. Oklahoma and Kansas both make sense.

The final 2? That would be an interesting debate. There aren't really a lot of flagships available at this stage. I say go for a couple of up and comers and just help them develop. It will pay off in the end and it will help maintain the balance of power in the meantime.

I say South Florida and Cincinnati.

Why UC? Even with their limited funds, they have proven to be more interested in competing than many P5 schools. South Florida is probably a strong contender in the next generation just based on the alumni base alone.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri
South: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Central: Alabama, Auburn, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, Cincinnati

-10 conference games
-conference semis for the championship
-19 game basketball schedule...round robin format

ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.

Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.

Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.

Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.
01-29-2021 06:01 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #13
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 06:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:10 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  It was a good experiment all in all.

But there are ways to balance some of these priorities.

Let's say we expanded with 6 schools. The primary goal there is a 20 team league would be very conducive to a 4-team conference playoff. It would also create tons of fresh games every year without having to go out of conference. That's in addition to the value of the TV contract when you lookout the number of games.

Texas will probably want Texas Tech. That's fine with me. Oklahoma and Kansas both make sense.

The final 2? That would be an interesting debate. There aren't really a lot of flagships available at this stage. I say go for a couple of up and comers and just help them develop. It will pay off in the end and it will help maintain the balance of power in the meantime.

I say South Florida and Cincinnati.

Why UC? Even with their limited funds, they have proven to be more interested in competing than many P5 schools. South Florida is probably a strong contender in the next generation just based on the alumni base alone.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri
South: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Central: Alabama, Auburn, South Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, Cincinnati

-10 conference games
-conference semis for the championship
-19 game basketball schedule...round robin format

ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.

Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.

Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.

Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.

You could do that it doesn't really matter and nobody will raise sand over either format as long as it is profitable and splitting another 60 plus million for the 2 semis will cover any rancor.

The only viable question is which 4 add the most?

Now let me toss a wrinkle out there. Suppose that a conference of such wealth attracted the ACC top brands to seek inclusion? Then I could see 20.

Now try to conceive the best possible 6 between the two and consider academics (important somewhat to Texas and our presidents, our weaknesses, and the win loss balance with Texas and Oklahoma included.

How about: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas to the West and Duke, North Carolina (circa Cunningham 2011) and Florida State to the East?

3 major football brands, 3 major basketball brands, 4 AAU schools.
01-29-2021 06:11 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:10 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.

Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.

Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.

Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.

You could do that it doesn't really matter and nobody will raise sand over either format as long as it is profitable and splitting another 60 plus million for the 2 semis will cover any rancor.

The only viable question is which 4 add the most?

Now let me toss a wrinkle out there. Suppose that a conference of such wealth attracted the ACC top brands to seek inclusion? Then I could see 20.

Now try to conceive the best possible 6 between the two and consider academics (important somewhat to Texas and our presidents, our weaknesses, and the win loss balance with Texas and Oklahoma included.

How about: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas to the West and Duke, North Carolina (circa Cunningham 2011) and Florida State to the East?

3 major football brands, 3 major basketball brands, 4 AAU schools.

Though of course the issue is profitability, I do think people forget that 21 (3x7) is viable too. One school would always have to be on a bye or playing non-con, but I don't think that is a major issue. It would allow four from the Big 12 and 3 from the ACC or vice versa.
01-30-2021 01:32 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #15
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-29-2021 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:10 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 12:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  ATU we have a history on this topic. I really like South Florida for the future, but I don't see Cincinnati working at all. Now that said in reality as strong as USF is for the future I see no indication that such promotion will occur in this next realignment.

So if there are 6 schools taken they would all likely be from the Big 12, but that's audacious, and highly unlikely. The SEC can easily justify 2 from Texas, and Kansas to go with Oklahoma. If there was a 2 more Iowa State and West Virginia would be the more likely of the unlikely.

What I think is tops is 18 and what I consider likely is 16.

But absolutely, regardless of the number of schools involved, or even who they are, the point is inventory is gained and if with brand schools then significant inventory is gained and likely at the expense of OOC rivalry games that don't earn as much as conference games on the tube.

I'm not saying it would be an easy transition for Florida, but moving the Georgia game to the last game of the year and making it the money game for tickets works for both schools since it is a 50/50 allotment in the Gator Bowl. Georgia Tech doesn't help Georgia as much as Auburn and Florida do. Florida State does help Florida, but if the conference is looking to maximize revenue and each SEC school makes 68 to 73 million a year then perhaps the transition from FSU to Georgia would be much easier to justify. South Carolina is not a top brand school for the SEC so maybe they want to keep Clemson as I suggested and maybe they use one of their 2 buy games to do so.

If Texas and Oklahoma joined in West and brought OSU and Tech with them then Missouri would be the only one who needed to use a buy game for Kansas.

But if we made that kind of move it would absolutely help to maximize profits. The more conferences expand the more they don't have to have big OOC games until they matter (playoffs and bowls) and if anything came out of the COVID year it was this.

Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.

Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.

Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.

You could do that it doesn't really matter and nobody will raise sand over either format as long as it is profitable and splitting another 60 plus million for the 2 semis will cover any rancor.

The only viable question is which 4 add the most?

Now let me toss a wrinkle out there. Suppose that a conference of such wealth attracted the ACC top brands to seek inclusion? Then I could see 20.

Now try to conceive the best possible 6 between the two and consider academics (important somewhat to Texas and our presidents, our weaknesses, and the win loss balance with Texas and Oklahoma included.

How about: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas to the West and Duke, North Carolina (circa Cunningham 2011) and Florida State to the East?

3 major football brands, 3 major basketball brands, 4 AAU schools.

If we assume that ESPN is willing to help arrange the movement of Texas and Oklahoma then I think there are a couple of other things we can safely assume.

1. Texas probably gets an in-state buddy if they want one. I think there's a reasonable debate as to which one that would be, but I also think the power structure at Texas A&M would have some sway here. They probably have some that are more favored than others. Although the A&M fans are most likely not very fond of either Texas Tech or Baylor, it's probably one of them.

Tech is a large state school with some political influence, but it is also geographically isolated in some respects. Baylor is more centrally located and generally more competitive all around, but they have had scandals. They also sued A&M back in 2011 and that leaves a sour taste in anyone's mouth. My guess would be Texas Tech.

Outside of the obvious reasons, I also think Tech is less of a threat to Texas on the football field. Their isolation makes it less attractive for recruits. They won't be terrible most years, but they likely won't be great either. This is where the balance comes in that you were speaking about earlier.

2. Oklahoma and Kansas work well as a pair. They've been in the same conference for a very long time and have played each other annually for a very long time. KU in the fold with Missouri makes them more viable for various reasons. Their football isn't likely a threat so they help with balance, but they also help with basketball quality and ratings for ESPN during the Winter months.

BUT...what if it doesn't really work this way at all? I've been operating under the assumption that Texas and Oklahoma would be willing to move to the SEC, but I think Oklahoma is the one that's more likely to move.

ESPN could pursue the Big 12 rights hard, but they won't pay them SEC money. They won't pay them Big Ten money either. Oklahoma will almost certainly have to leave if they are going to maintain a certain comfort level.

Pure speculation, but I think Oklahoma would just want Oklahoma State as their buddy. The SEC could accommodate this, and I think it may be important to do so because ESPN will do their best to make Texas happy. That means keeping the Big 12 intact with or without Oklahoma.

Strategically, it works fine for us because Oklahoma has no real reason to go to the Big Ten even if they academic side would prefer it. They will be fine in the SEC with OSU and we'll be more competitive, richer, and have greater access to TX players and markets. The Big Ten is immediately cut off from any move that would help them. Their only move from here would be to crack the ACC and ESPN has no motivation to allow them to do that.

We could still increase our payout again later if Texas relents.

For their part, UT has some decisions to make. Independence could be workable, but it would be difficult if leagues move to more conference games. A weakened Big 12 is an issue competitively and financially. While ESPN would surely bend over backward to help them, they have limited options.

But at that point, ball's in their court...no negotiations needed. They can either join up or not.
01-31-2021 02:29 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #16
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(01-31-2021 02:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:10 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Audacious is my middle name.

I agree the brand vs brand dynamic is what actually matters. Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes.

The money, while integral to the whole deal, is joined at the hip with the schedule. I think UT and OU would be happy to see a bunch of SEC schools coming through most weeks, but they also likely want some familiar faces. I think that's especially true for Texas in the event they can't play several TX schools in non-conference.

18 could work with 2 divisions of 9, but it would be very difficult to squeeze 4 teams out of 3 divisions. The series of tie-breakers you'd have to devise would leave everyone in a foul mood. I don't imagine a system like that would last long before a ton of people would start losing their minds. 20 works simply because it's divisible by 4. Of course, 16 is as well

Kansas probably works for Oklahoma. Texas Tech probably works for Texas.

If you find 2 more then the number of games we play from that point forward should account for any financial disparity. After all, what's left of the Big 12 won't be getting very many viewers after this. If we have 100 games on the market then that's essentially the combination of the current SEC and Big 12's slates.

Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.

Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.

You could do that it doesn't really matter and nobody will raise sand over either format as long as it is profitable and splitting another 60 plus million for the 2 semis will cover any rancor.

The only viable question is which 4 add the most?

Now let me toss a wrinkle out there. Suppose that a conference of such wealth attracted the ACC top brands to seek inclusion? Then I could see 20.

Now try to conceive the best possible 6 between the two and consider academics (important somewhat to Texas and our presidents, our weaknesses, and the win loss balance with Texas and Oklahoma included.

How about: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas to the West and Duke, North Carolina (circa Cunningham 2011) and Florida State to the East?

3 major football brands, 3 major basketball brands, 4 AAU schools.

If we assume that ESPN is willing to help arrange the movement of Texas and Oklahoma then I think there are a couple of other things we can safely assume.

1. Texas probably gets an in-state buddy if they want one. I think there's a reasonable debate as to which one that would be, but I also think the power structure at Texas A&M would have some sway here. They probably have some that are more favored than others. Although the A&M fans are most likely not very fond of either Texas Tech or Baylor, it's probably one of them.

Tech is a large state school with some political influence, but it is also geographically isolated in some respects. Baylor is more centrally located and generally more competitive all around, but they have had scandals. They also sued A&M back in 2011 and that leaves a sour taste in anyone's mouth. My guess would be Texas Tech.

Outside of the obvious reasons, I also think Tech is less of a threat to Texas on the football field. Their isolation makes it less attractive for recruits. They won't be terrible most years, but they likely won't be great either. This is where the balance comes in that you were speaking about earlier.

2. Oklahoma and Kansas work well as a pair. They've been in the same conference for a very long time and have played each other annually for a very long time. KU in the fold with Missouri makes them more viable for various reasons. Their football isn't likely a threat so they help with balance, but they also help with basketball quality and ratings for ESPN during the Winter months.

BUT...what if it doesn't really work this way at all? I've been operating under the assumption that Texas and Oklahoma would be willing to move to the SEC, but I think Oklahoma is the one that's more likely to move.

ESPN could pursue the Big 12 rights hard, but they won't pay them SEC money. They won't pay them Big Ten money either. Oklahoma will almost certainly have to leave if they are going to maintain a certain comfort level.

Pure speculation, but I think Oklahoma would just want Oklahoma State as their buddy. The SEC could accommodate this, and I think it may be important to do so because ESPN will do their best to make Texas happy. That means keeping the Big 12 intact with or without Oklahoma.

Strategically, it works fine for us because Oklahoma has no real reason to go to the Big Ten even if they academic side would prefer it. They will be fine in the SEC with OSU and we'll be more competitive, richer, and have greater access to TX players and markets. The Big Ten is immediately cut off from any move that would help them. Their only move from here would be to crack the ACC and ESPN has no motivation to allow them to do that.

We could still increase our payout again later if Texas relents.

For their part, UT has some decisions to make. Independence could be workable, but it would be difficult if leagues move to more conference games. A weakened Big 12 is an issue competitively and financially. While ESPN would surely bend over backward to help them, they have limited options.

But at that point, ball's in their court...no negotiations needed. They can either join up or not.

An independent Texas would have trouble landing their Olympic sports in a competitive conference imho as any non-power 5 will seem a step down in quality.

I don’t see How Oklahoma and Kansas are always a tandem in realignment scenarios. Boren said he didn’t consider the SEC invitation because neither Texas or Oklahoma State were offered as well. Kansas, at most, is a team to consider rounding out with. Their football support is terrible, but their blue blood basketball program and AAU academics won’t make up the value needed to cover the cost of adding another mouth to feed without taking away money from existing schools.

Outside a few ticked off Big Ten and PAC schools, I don’t see any major needs or desires for any Big 12 school to jump ship right now.
02-01-2021 06:51 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #17
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(02-01-2021 06:51 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 02:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Your understanding of 3 divisions of 6 lacks.
5 Division Games, 2 rotating gems from each of the other divisions, 1 permanent foe.
Make the divisions regional and it works just fine for everyone.
As to picking the Wild Card that is set by formula just like with the NFL. There is no fighting about who gets in if math decides it. Meanwhile it keeps many more schools involved until the end.

As to the number and composition assuming they all come from the Big 12:
At 2: Texas and Oklahoma
At 4: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma
At 6: Texas, Texas Tech/Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State/West Virginia.

Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.

You could do that it doesn't really matter and nobody will raise sand over either format as long as it is profitable and splitting another 60 plus million for the 2 semis will cover any rancor.

The only viable question is which 4 add the most?

Now let me toss a wrinkle out there. Suppose that a conference of such wealth attracted the ACC top brands to seek inclusion? Then I could see 20.

Now try to conceive the best possible 6 between the two and consider academics (important somewhat to Texas and our presidents, our weaknesses, and the win loss balance with Texas and Oklahoma included.

How about: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas to the West and Duke, North Carolina (circa Cunningham 2011) and Florida State to the East?

3 major football brands, 3 major basketball brands, 4 AAU schools.

If we assume that ESPN is willing to help arrange the movement of Texas and Oklahoma then I think there are a couple of other things we can safely assume.

1. Texas probably gets an in-state buddy if they want one. I think there's a reasonable debate as to which one that would be, but I also think the power structure at Texas A&M would have some sway here. They probably have some that are more favored than others. Although the A&M fans are most likely not very fond of either Texas Tech or Baylor, it's probably one of them.

Tech is a large state school with some political influence, but it is also geographically isolated in some respects. Baylor is more centrally located and generally more competitive all around, but they have had scandals. They also sued A&M back in 2011 and that leaves a sour taste in anyone's mouth. My guess would be Texas Tech.

Outside of the obvious reasons, I also think Tech is less of a threat to Texas on the football field. Their isolation makes it less attractive for recruits. They won't be terrible most years, but they likely won't be great either. This is where the balance comes in that you were speaking about earlier.

2. Oklahoma and Kansas work well as a pair. They've been in the same conference for a very long time and have played each other annually for a very long time. KU in the fold with Missouri makes them more viable for various reasons. Their football isn't likely a threat so they help with balance, but they also help with basketball quality and ratings for ESPN during the Winter months.

BUT...what if it doesn't really work this way at all? I've been operating under the assumption that Texas and Oklahoma would be willing to move to the SEC, but I think Oklahoma is the one that's more likely to move.

ESPN could pursue the Big 12 rights hard, but they won't pay them SEC money. They won't pay them Big Ten money either. Oklahoma will almost certainly have to leave if they are going to maintain a certain comfort level.

Pure speculation, but I think Oklahoma would just want Oklahoma State as their buddy. The SEC could accommodate this, and I think it may be important to do so because ESPN will do their best to make Texas happy. That means keeping the Big 12 intact with or without Oklahoma.

Strategically, it works fine for us because Oklahoma has no real reason to go to the Big Ten even if they academic side would prefer it. They will be fine in the SEC with OSU and we'll be more competitive, richer, and have greater access to TX players and markets. The Big Ten is immediately cut off from any move that would help them. Their only move from here would be to crack the ACC and ESPN has no motivation to allow them to do that.

We could still increase our payout again later if Texas relents.

For their part, UT has some decisions to make. Independence could be workable, but it would be difficult if leagues move to more conference games. A weakened Big 12 is an issue competitively and financially. While ESPN would surely bend over backward to help them, they have limited options.

But at that point, ball's in their court...no negotiations needed. They can either join up or not.

An independent Texas would have trouble landing their Olympic sports in a competitive conference imho as any non-power 5 will seem a step down in quality.

I don’t see How Oklahoma and Kansas are always a tandem in realignment scenarios. Boren said he didn’t consider the SEC invitation because neither Texas or Oklahoma State were offered as well. Kansas, at most, is a team to consider rounding out with. Their football support is terrible, but their blue blood basketball program and AAU academics won’t make up the value needed to cover the cost of adding another mouth to feed without taking away money from existing schools.

Outside a few ticked off Big Ten and PAC schools, I don’t see any major needs or desires for any Big 12 school to jump ship right now.

I tend to connect Oklahoma and Kansas for two reasons.

1. They've been playing each other for a very long time and have a good relationship. KU also makes a good match for Missouri. In other words, this is about compatibility for the SEC.

2. I think ESPN will work hard to maintain Kansas basketball in their quiver. No, the basketball program is not enough to overcome a lack of football value, but ESPN needs consistently attractive content outside of football season. They don't shut down during the Winter. In other words, KU is one of the few true basketball blue bloods and they will bring an audience.

The only Big 12 school that needs to jump is Oklahoma. They're locked into a position of inferiority, financially speaking, to their primary rival in Texas. They need to rectify that which is why I think they would move if the opportunity presents itself.

If all it took was offering Texas and Oklahoma together to get them into the SEC then I'm all for it, but I have a feeling it won't be that simple. Simply because these things are rarely that neat and tidy.
02-01-2021 04:08 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(02-01-2021 04:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(02-01-2021 06:51 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 02:29 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-29-2021 06:01 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Your faith in SEC schools not bickering over those details is greater than mine.

If we did 18 then I think we would get less fuss out of dividing into 2 divisions and then taking the top 2 from each division. The semis could be structured as the #1 team in one division playing host to the #2 from the other. The winners meet in Atlanta.

You could do that it doesn't really matter and nobody will raise sand over either format as long as it is profitable and splitting another 60 plus million for the 2 semis will cover any rancor.

The only viable question is which 4 add the most?

Now let me toss a wrinkle out there. Suppose that a conference of such wealth attracted the ACC top brands to seek inclusion? Then I could see 20.

Now try to conceive the best possible 6 between the two and consider academics (important somewhat to Texas and our presidents, our weaknesses, and the win loss balance with Texas and Oklahoma included.

How about: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas to the West and Duke, North Carolina (circa Cunningham 2011) and Florida State to the East?

3 major football brands, 3 major basketball brands, 4 AAU schools.

If we assume that ESPN is willing to help arrange the movement of Texas and Oklahoma then I think there are a couple of other things we can safely assume.

1. Texas probably gets an in-state buddy if they want one. I think there's a reasonable debate as to which one that would be, but I also think the power structure at Texas A&M would have some sway here. They probably have some that are more favored than others. Although the A&M fans are most likely not very fond of either Texas Tech or Baylor, it's probably one of them.

Tech is a large state school with some political influence, but it is also geographically isolated in some respects. Baylor is more centrally located and generally more competitive all around, but they have had scandals. They also sued A&M back in 2011 and that leaves a sour taste in anyone's mouth. My guess would be Texas Tech.

Outside of the obvious reasons, I also think Tech is less of a threat to Texas on the football field. Their isolation makes it less attractive for recruits. They won't be terrible most years, but they likely won't be great either. This is where the balance comes in that you were speaking about earlier.

2. Oklahoma and Kansas work well as a pair. They've been in the same conference for a very long time and have played each other annually for a very long time. KU in the fold with Missouri makes them more viable for various reasons. Their football isn't likely a threat so they help with balance, but they also help with basketball quality and ratings for ESPN during the Winter months.

BUT...what if it doesn't really work this way at all? I've been operating under the assumption that Texas and Oklahoma would be willing to move to the SEC, but I think Oklahoma is the one that's more likely to move.

ESPN could pursue the Big 12 rights hard, but they won't pay them SEC money. They won't pay them Big Ten money either. Oklahoma will almost certainly have to leave if they are going to maintain a certain comfort level.

Pure speculation, but I think Oklahoma would just want Oklahoma State as their buddy. The SEC could accommodate this, and I think it may be important to do so because ESPN will do their best to make Texas happy. That means keeping the Big 12 intact with or without Oklahoma.

Strategically, it works fine for us because Oklahoma has no real reason to go to the Big Ten even if they academic side would prefer it. They will be fine in the SEC with OSU and we'll be more competitive, richer, and have greater access to TX players and markets. The Big Ten is immediately cut off from any move that would help them. Their only move from here would be to crack the ACC and ESPN has no motivation to allow them to do that.

We could still increase our payout again later if Texas relents.

For their part, UT has some decisions to make. Independence could be workable, but it would be difficult if leagues move to more conference games. A weakened Big 12 is an issue competitively and financially. While ESPN would surely bend over backward to help them, they have limited options.

But at that point, ball's in their court...no negotiations needed. They can either join up or not.

An independent Texas would have trouble landing their Olympic sports in a competitive conference imho as any non-power 5 will seem a step down in quality.

I don’t see How Oklahoma and Kansas are always a tandem in realignment scenarios. Boren said he didn’t consider the SEC invitation because neither Texas or Oklahoma State were offered as well. Kansas, at most, is a team to consider rounding out with. Their football support is terrible, but their blue blood basketball program and AAU academics won’t make up the value needed to cover the cost of adding another mouth to feed without taking away money from existing schools.

Outside a few ticked off Big Ten and PAC schools, I don’t see any major needs or desires for any Big 12 school to jump ship right now.

I tend to connect Oklahoma and Kansas for two reasons.

1. They've been playing each other for a very long time and have a good relationship. KU also makes a good match for Missouri. In other words, this is about compatibility for the SEC.

2. I think ESPN will work hard to maintain Kansas basketball in their quiver. No, the basketball program is not enough to overcome a lack of football value, but ESPN needs consistently attractive content outside of football season. They don't shut down during the Winter. In other words, KU is one of the few true basketball blue bloods and they will bring an audience.

The only Big 12 school that needs to jump is Oklahoma. They're locked into a position of inferiority, financially speaking, to their primary rival in Texas. They need to rectify that which is why I think they would move if the opportunity presents itself.

If all it took was offering Texas and Oklahoma together to get them into the SEC then I'm all for it, but I have a feeling it won't be that simple. Simply because these things are rarely that neat and tidy.

I am not saying this is likely, but it's time for the SEC to strategize its end game and to think in terms of using their new payouts to push for that end.

This is why I suggested that perhaps we should think the unthinkable and consider offering Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma to the West and Duke, North Carolina and Florida State to the East. That's 6 bluebloods 3 in football and 3 in basketball. Then the SEC could set up these divisions:

Northeast: Florida State, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Southeast: Auburn, Duke, Georgia, Kentucky, Florida,
Southwest: Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Northwest: Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas

Duke and UNC would have a home and home in hoops as would Kentucky/Florida, and Kansas/Missouri. For hoops you would play 8 games (home and home) in division and 1 out of division school home and home. That's 10 games against 5 teams. You would play 1 game against each of the other 14 for a 24 game conference schedule and play the other 8 against OOC competition. That's plenty of inventory for basketball and with 4 major national brands in the conference and strong regional brands that's an extremely nice lineup.

It balances the SEC football with maximized branding and content games and it provides the same in hoops. These 6 additions truly maximizes the SEC total value.

In a move to 20 moving first for the final maximization of value will be key.

Let the Big 10 move next and then have a two 20 team conferences of the best of the rest for 80 total schools.
02-01-2021 05:19 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #19
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(02-01-2021 05:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I am not saying this is likely, but it's time for the SEC to strategize its end game and to think in terms of using their new payouts to push for that end.

This is why I suggested that perhaps we should think the unthinkable and consider offering Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma to the West and Duke, North Carolina and Florida State to the East. That's 6 bluebloods 3 in football and 3 in basketball. Then the SEC could set up these divisions:

Northeast: Florida State, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Southeast: Auburn, Duke, Georgia, Kentucky, Florida,
Southwest: Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Northwest: Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas

Duke and UNC would have a home and home in hoops as would Kentucky/Florida, and Kansas/Missouri. For hoops you would play 8 games (home and home) in division and 1 out of division school home and home. That's 10 games against 5 teams. You would play 1 game against each of the other 14 for a 24 game conference schedule and play the other 8 against OOC competition. That's plenty of inventory for basketball and with 4 major national brands in the conference and strong regional brands that's an extremely nice lineup.

It balances the SEC football with maximized branding and content games and it provides the same in hoops. These 6 additions truly maximizes the SEC total value.

In a move to 20 moving first for the final maximization of value will be key.

Let the Big 10 move next and then have a two 20 team conferences of the best of the rest for 80 total schools.

In my way of looking at it, if the SEC wants to strategize and get the most value then they will have to break the rules.

Right now, the rules are of ESPN, by ESPN, and for ESPN.

When the networks say "we'll pay you this much for these games or these programs" then what they're really saying is this is the most advantageous for "us." Or "we're happy to do business with you as long as you do it our way." I can't think of another major media product that simply allows network TV to call shots for them. College sports is basically it.

College football is the second most watched sporting product in America. When you couple that with a pretty popular product in college basketball, especially when you consider the Big Dance, as well as the ancillary value of having filler programming like baseball, softball, and others, then it really is a nice value for sports networks to buy into a conference or two for a relatively small investment on their part.

And it seems the conferences are happy to do it this way. They are so happy to do it this way that they will squander opportunity after opportunity just to get a leg up on other institutions in other parts of the country. It doesn't make any sense.

ESPN is not a business partner. They are renting our property so they can make money off of it. Nothing wrong with that, but it's about time the SEC leaders and others started thinking that way. They do not give a crap about us or any other college conference.

If you want to win the game then start thinking in terms of what the rules are. The rules are basically this...ESPN makes a premium off of certain match-ups and access to certain markets. That's fine and up until now, we have been more or less content to play it that way. You want to break the rules? Then force ESPN's hand by leveraging your value...

There are a lot of ways to do it, but basically you have to think in terms of what is valuable to ESPN. They need content and they need to fill air time or have streaming options as it were. They don't want to pay an equal rate per school for larger conferences because that messes with their value equation. But whose value equation are we talking about? ESPN's and that's literally it.

One of the reasons I've always questioned the idea of incremental expansion is because it gives ESPN every reason to keep things within their control. The only way to shake their grip is to strategize outside of their paradigm. You start talking about adding 6, 10, or even more schools and all of a sudden ESPN has to look at the equation differently. The reason is simple...supply and demand. Control the supply and you can manipulate demand.

If the SEC started thinking in terms of a media structure that wasn't simply the best product, but was actually the lion's share of the product then you've flipped the leverage. Sure, ESPN could decide they don't want to increase their end of the ledger. Who cares? They can start acting like a business partner or we take the product elsewhere. ESPN won't play that card because far too much of their content is centered around college sports. They would literally have to admit that college content simply wasn't very valuable and just refuse to do business. They won't do that because they have built a freaking empire on college sports. Admitting it had less than premier value would be admitting they've been running a charity the last few decades. Of course, that's foolish. We all know they've made plenty of cash doing what they're doing. They won't simply give it up.

Even if ESPN played hardball, and they would because they're better at it, then all you have to do is take whatever new product you create and shop it to another network. ESPN loses exclusive access and we get more simply by obtaining a premium amount from other media partners. No one in professional sports gives a crap about miffing some executive in New York or CT. The reason is because they control the supply...they are unified. They also tend not to heave over their content in whole chunks without a second thought. They parse out their packages and they are perfectly happy to eschew synergy in favor of making sure they get the best balance of exposure and revenue.

College conferences, by contrast, are hurting themselves because they compete against each other. ESPN likes the idea of numerous conferences competing for airtime. They win in that fight because they get to pick what they like the most and tailor their payouts accordingly.

I do not believe for a second that ESPN really wants to reduce the number of leagues down to 3 or 2 and certainly not 1. They would lose their butt at the negotiating table in that scenario.

Something sticks out to me when I read this Forbes article.

The NFL rakes in nearly 6 billion annually and their new rights deal will increase that mark. That's divided up among 32 teams. Now, I'm not dumb. I know the NFL is a good bit more valuable than college sports because it attracts more viewers and does so nationally. But am I really to believe the NFL is THAT much more valuable than college content?

The SEC is getting 3 billion over 10 years for their 1st tier, for example. I cannot accept that the best college content is simply potatoes compared to the NFL. If you combine all the P5 leagues together then everyone made about 2.9 billion in 2019. Well, that sounds about right, doesn't it? About half of what the NFL makes? Well, that's divided up among 65 power schools. More importantly, it also includes absolutely everything...all media rights of any kind. It's radio money and bowl money...

It also includes the basketball product, the postseason tournaments from the CFP all the way to the Women's College World Series. It's literally all forms of conference revenue outside of tickets sales and the like. Some of this stuff is absolutely a bargain for networks like ESPN because they can fill so much time. That in itself has value. The NFL attracts a lot more viewers per game, but they also only have a premium number of events available.

I'm not suggesting that every single school is of equal value one way or the other in whatever they produce. No, I'm simply suggesting that the market is not being allowed to work.

Pretty soon, we're going to have to start paying players. Pretty soon, a ton of fans are going to get sick of paying exorbitant rates for tickets and supplying large donations at the same time. The best way to supplement the income is simply to stop being stupid.

The SEC should start by forming a media partnership with the 2 leagues that are about to have their contracts end. Forget about raiding them for Texas and Oklahoma.

Create a partnership with the Big 12 in which we have an annual football game. We could increase our in-house total to 9 games as well to match what the Big 12 and PAC 12 are doing.

In the meantime, create a "10th game" by setting up match-ups with all the Big 12 schools. If the Big 12 thinks they can expand by a couple and add to the party then that's even better. Personally, I think BYU is a pretty good target for them. The key here is this media partnership would own all the new games created. Instead of a 10th game for the conference and keeping it in house, you create an extra game for 20 schools. That's 10 brand new games and all P5 quality. Combine all that with a 3 game basketball challenge where everyone actually gets to participate to some degree. Combine that with the whatever media value the new Big 12 contract is worth.

This isn't expansion. It's cooperation from one conference to the next and we share media values in some respect. But we don't just share value of new games created. The Big 12 is going back into the marketplace and what if they had the strength of the SEC behind them? This is why I originally suggested merging with them years ago. If you have 24 quality schools operating as one then you can really change the market.

Now, I'm going to get crazy...

Bring the PAC 12 into the same deal. Combine the media values on the market and create extra games. It's easy for the SEC and Big 12 to get together. The PAC 12 and the Big 12 could have another round of games between themselves. I don't know that the SEC would want to add that sort of travel on a regular basis, even for football, but they could consider a few more feature games with the PAC 12...a few more basketball games...a Spring sport challenge by getting baseball and softball teams together.

This is pretty rudimentary actually. The larger increases in revenue would come from more broad partnerships down the road, but I think you see where I'm going.
02-02-2021 10:31 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #20
RE: When expansion occurs, the SEC should move to 10 conference games.
(02-02-2021 10:31 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(02-01-2021 05:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I am not saying this is likely, but it's time for the SEC to strategize its end game and to think in terms of using their new payouts to push for that end.

This is why I suggested that perhaps we should think the unthinkable and consider offering Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma to the West and Duke, North Carolina and Florida State to the East. That's 6 bluebloods 3 in football and 3 in basketball. Then the SEC could set up these divisions:

Northeast: Florida State, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Southeast: Auburn, Duke, Georgia, Kentucky, Florida,
Southwest: Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Northwest: Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas

Duke and UNC would have a home and home in hoops as would Kentucky/Florida, and Kansas/Missouri. For hoops you would play 8 games (home and home) in division and 1 out of division school home and home. That's 10 games against 5 teams. You would play 1 game against each of the other 14 for a 24 game conference schedule and play the other 8 against OOC competition. That's plenty of inventory for basketball and with 4 major national brands in the conference and strong regional brands that's an extremely nice lineup.

It balances the SEC football with maximized branding and content games and it provides the same in hoops. These 6 additions truly maximizes the SEC total value.

In a move to 20 moving first for the final maximization of value will be key.

Let the Big 10 move next and then have a two 20 team conferences of the best of the rest for 80 total schools.

In my way of looking at it, if the SEC wants to strategize and get the most value then they will have to break the rules.

Right now, the rules are of ESPN, by ESPN, and for ESPN.

When the networks say "we'll pay you this much for these games or these programs" then what they're really saying is this is the most advantageous for "us." Or "we're happy to do business with you as long as you do it our way." I can't think of another major media product that simply allows network TV to call shots for them. College sports is basically it.

College football is the second most watched sporting product in America. When you couple that with a pretty popular product in college basketball, especially when you consider the Big Dance, as well as the ancillary value of having filler programming like baseball, softball, and others, then it really is a nice value for sports networks to buy into a conference or two for a relatively small investment on their part.

And it seems the conferences are happy to do it this way. They are so happy to do it this way that they will squander opportunity after opportunity just to get a leg up on other institutions in other parts of the country. It doesn't make any sense.

ESPN is not a business partner. They are renting our property so they can make money off of it. Nothing wrong with that, but it's about time the SEC leaders and others started thinking that way. They do not give a crap about us or any other college conference.

If you want to win the game then start thinking in terms of what the rules are. The rules are basically this...ESPN makes a premium off of certain match-ups and access to certain markets. That's fine and up until now, we have been more or less content to play it that way. You want to break the rules? Then force ESPN's hand by leveraging your value...

There are a lot of ways to do it, but basically you have to think in terms of what is valuable to ESPN. They need content and they need to fill air time or have streaming options as it were. They don't want to pay an equal rate per school for larger conferences because that messes with their value equation. But whose value equation are we talking about? ESPN's and that's literally it.

One of the reasons I've always questioned the idea of incremental expansion is because it gives ESPN every reason to keep things within their control. The only way to shake their grip is to strategize outside of their paradigm. You start talking about adding 6, 10, or even more schools and all of a sudden ESPN has to look at the equation differently. The reason is simple...supply and demand. Control the supply and you can manipulate demand.

If the SEC started thinking in terms of a media structure that wasn't simply the best product, but was actually the lion's share of the product then you've flipped the leverage. Sure, ESPN could decide they don't want to increase their end of the ledger. Who cares? They can start acting like a business partner or we take the product elsewhere. ESPN won't play that card because far too much of their content is centered around college sports. They would literally have to admit that college content simply wasn't very valuable and just refuse to do business. They won't do that because they have built a freaking empire on college sports. Admitting it had less than premier value would be admitting they've been running a charity the last few decades. Of course, that's foolish. We all know they've made plenty of cash doing what they're doing. They won't simply give it up.

Even if ESPN played hardball, and they would because they're better at it, then all you have to do is take whatever new product you create and shop it to another network. ESPN loses exclusive access and we get more simply by obtaining a premium amount from other media partners. No one in professional sports gives a crap about miffing some executive in New York or CT. The reason is because they control the supply...they are unified. They also tend not to heave over their content in whole chunks without a second thought. They parse out their packages and they are perfectly happy to eschew synergy in favor of making sure they get the best balance of exposure and revenue.

College conferences, by contrast, are hurting themselves because they compete against each other. ESPN likes the idea of numerous conferences competing for airtime. They win in that fight because they get to pick what they like the most and tailor their payouts accordingly.

I do not believe for a second that ESPN really wants to reduce the number of leagues down to 3 or 2 and certainly not 1. They would lose their butt at the negotiating table in that scenario.

Something sticks out to me when I read this Forbes article.

The NFL rakes in nearly 6 billion annually and their new rights deal will increase that mark. That's divided up among 32 teams. Now, I'm not dumb. I know the NFL is a good bit more valuable than college sports because it attracts more viewers and does so nationally. But am I really to believe the NFL is THAT much more valuable than college content?

The SEC is getting 3 billion over 10 years for their 1st tier, for example. I cannot accept that the best college content is simply potatoes compared to the NFL. If you combine all the P5 leagues together then everyone made about 2.9 billion in 2019. Well, that sounds about right, doesn't it? About half of what the NFL makes? Well, that's divided up among 65 power schools. More importantly, it also includes absolutely everything...all media rights of any kind. It's radio money and bowl money...

It also includes the basketball product, the postseason tournaments from the CFP all the way to the Women's College World Series. It's literally all forms of conference revenue outside of tickets sales and the like. Some of this stuff is absolutely a bargain for networks like ESPN because they can fill so much time. That in itself has value. The NFL attracts a lot more viewers per game, but they also only have a premium number of events available.

I'm not suggesting that every single school is of equal value one way or the other in whatever they produce. No, I'm simply suggesting that the market is not being allowed to work.

Pretty soon, we're going to have to start paying players. Pretty soon, a ton of fans are going to get sick of paying exorbitant rates for tickets and supplying large donations at the same time. The best way to supplement the income is simply to stop being stupid.

The SEC should start by forming a media partnership with the 2 leagues that are about to have their contracts end. Forget about raiding them for Texas and Oklahoma.

Create a partnership with the Big 12 in which we have an annual football game. We could increase our in-house total to 9 games as well to match what the Big 12 and PAC 12 are doing.

In the meantime, create a "10th game" by setting up match-ups with all the Big 12 schools. If the Big 12 thinks they can expand by a couple and add to the party then that's even better. Personally, I think BYU is a pretty good target for them. The key here is this media partnership would own all the new games created. Instead of a 10th game for the conference and keeping it in house, you create an extra game for 20 schools. That's 10 brand new games and all P5 quality. Combine all that with a 3 game basketball challenge where everyone actually gets to participate to some degree. Combine that with the whatever media value the new Big 12 contract is worth.

This isn't expansion. It's cooperation from one conference to the next and we share media values in some respect. But we don't just share value of new games created. The Big 12 is going back into the marketplace and what if they had the strength of the SEC behind them? This is why I originally suggested merging with them years ago. If you have 24 quality schools operating as one then you can really change the market.

Now, I'm going to get crazy...

Bring the PAC 12 into the same deal. Combine the media values on the market and create extra games. It's easy for the SEC and Big 12 to get together. The PAC 12 and the Big 12 could have another round of games between themselves. I don't know that the SEC would want to add that sort of travel on a regular basis, even for football, but they could consider a few more feature games with the PAC 12...a few more basketball games...a Spring sport challenge by getting baseball and softball teams together.

This is pretty rudimentary actually. The larger increases in revenue would come from more broad partnerships down the road, but I think you see where I'm going.

This is absolutely the issue. When I started posting on the topic in 2006 on a Georgia site that is now defunct this was one o the issues I raised. The conferences absolutely need to work together as the Networks have inordinate power dealing with us separately. It's why I've often referred to it all as a hostile takeover of college sports by the corporate networks.

If the SEC and Big 10 (the conferences which still have some leverage) have the fortitude to invite who they wish, refuse to sign GOR's with the networks (which isn't a requirement) and grow their own marketability as you suggest rather than allowing themselves to only grow with schools acceptable to networks, and if they quit telling the networks in advance what they want to do, or tipping their hands by asking valuations on teams they are considering, then all of realignment would have turned out very differently, more natural in it's organization than just expanding for new markets, and the game would be much healthier.

Had the first two additions to the 10 member SEC been Florida State and Clemson then the Big East and ACC would likely have merged. And if the SEC had expanded again it would have still been into Texas. But I think it would have been a very healthy expansion if it had occurred at all.

Had the SWC and Big 8 seen a growth of the SEC solidifying Florida and moving into South Carolina then perhaps the Big 8 would have warmed up to Arkansas as a member and they might have moved on a Utah school to 14.

An ACC/Big East union with basketball only members would have created a healthy hybrid.

Georgetown, Seton Hall, St.Johns, Villanova, Providence and one or two I may be forgetting as basketball only members.
Boston College, Maryland, Miami, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Duke, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia, Wake Forest

That would have made for a heckuva healthy East Coast Conference.

If Maryland still departs to become the Big 10 #12 then the Irish join in their slot, if Notre Dame isn't the Big 10's #12 which the ND administration at the time favored.

We have what we have because ESPN wanted to keep strength down in all of them but the SEC and Big 10 where neither would have signed with them if there had been an attempt to weaken them.

So the PAC stays at 12, the SEC moves to 12, the Big 10 moves to 12 and the ACC and Big 12 move to 14 football members. Louisville and TCU never get the initial promotion.

Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Join:

Arkansas, Baylor, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and possibly B.Y.U. to form the 14 member Big 14.

Now tell me how any of those conferences would be worse off than today?

Big 10:
Indiana, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue
Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin

SEC:
Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Kentucky
Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

PAC:
Arizona, Arizona State, California U.C.L.A., Southern Cal
Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State

(perhaps they add Nevada with Utah)

While this is a hypothetical listing my point that it illustrates is that all of these remain much more compact and regional which helps with all minor sports, gives fans reasonable travel games, but does not give the networks the market spread they wanted from just a couple of conferences at the expense of everyone.

They are the ones who intentionally blurred the lines to create what they thought would be pull from two viewing audiences when a Missouri played a Kansas, a Pitt played a West Virginia, or F.S.U. played Florida, or Clemson played U.S.C. and while they got some of what they wanted it never panned out in a glorious way and too many people got frustrated.

Now I ask you with that 12 member SEC what else do we need? And every school in it is very much like the others with regard to football save Vandy and Kentucky but then each division needs a patsy.
02-02-2021 04:41 PM
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