The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-15-2021 12:42 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:36 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:21 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 11:44 AM)jaybird44 Wrote:  OK, I cannot tell you how i know this,but i believe OLD DOMINION is looking to find a way to leave. I think conference usa will be dramatically different next year. ODU cannot afford to be in CUSA much longer. It does not make sense.

I hope you're right, as long as its someplace BETTER. As bad as CUSA is, there are worse options. If it gets us in a multi-bid basketball league somehow, I'll be happy. Your "next year" comment makes me think you anticipate something quickly.

I can't think of any worse options personally. Worst case is basketball lands in another 1-bid league, but everyone will be closer and attending the conference tournament will be possible.

Big South? ASun?

I'd rather be in the Big South. ASun wouldn't shrink the footprint much so I don't think we'd move there... though I would like to be in a conference with Liberty. Just personal preference I guess. Also assuming that in any move football stays FBS.

Since their football is FCS, does someone have an idea how ODU joins the Big South and retains FBS in football?

Can we go to the SoCon? I'd be into that basketball conference.

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(01-17-2021 07:51 PM)NC ODUFan Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:42 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:36 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:21 PM)monarx Wrote:  I hope you're right, as long as its someplace BETTER. As bad as CUSA is, there are worse options. If it gets us in a multi-bid basketball league somehow, I'll be happy. Your "next year" comment makes me think you anticipate something quickly.

I can't think of any worse options personally. Worst case is basketball lands in another 1-bid league, but everyone will be closer and attending the conference tournament will be possible.

Big South? ASun?

I'd rather be in the Big South. ASun wouldn't shrink the footprint much so I don't think we'd move there... though I would like to be in a conference with Liberty. Just personal preference I guess. Also assuming that in any move football stays FBS.

Since their football is FCS, does someone have an idea how ODU joins the Big South and retains FBS in football?

Perhaps a football only FBS conference invite or going Indy? Id rather stay in CUSA than go Big South or SoCon. Yuck. Even CAA is better. If its not putting basketball in CUSA, AAC, A10 or CAA I want nothing to do with it.

(01-17-2021 09:39 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-17-2021 07:51 PM)NC ODUFan Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:42 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:36 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I can't think of any worse options personally. Worst case is basketball lands in another 1-bid league, but everyone will be closer and attending the conference tournament will be possible.

Big South? ASun?

I'd rather be in the Big South. ASun wouldn't shrink the footprint much so I don't think we'd move there... though I would like to be in a conference with Liberty. Just personal preference I guess. Also assuming that in any move football stays FBS.

Since their football is FCS, does someone have an idea how ODU joins the Big South and retains FBS in football?

Perhaps a football only FBS conference invite or going Indy? Id rather stay in CUSA than go Big South or SoCon. Yuck. Even CAA is better. If its not putting basketball in CUSA, AAC, A10 or CAA I want nothing to do with it.

I don't have any desire to join the Big South or SoCon, but it does accomplish my main goal and that is to split football from other sports. From the Big South or SoCon, we have options and paths moving forward. We can move on to the A10 later when that domino falls. As long as or conference affiliation is contingent on football, that isn't the case. There is no next move. Just facing the reality that we are never getting into the AAC.

I don't think that we should be discussing the SoCon in the same breath as the Big South or Asun, or really even CAA. The SoCon is a much stronger conference, with teams that have fanbases that care about basketball, and the conference has a very strong history, as well as a team that made the leap to the A-10. SoCon is an upgrade from CUSA for basketball, and is significantly better than any of the other options being discussed outside of A-10.

Below is the average conference RPI rank over the last 3 years (including this season) for conferences that have been discussed here. As you will see, SoCon is a legit basketball conference.

SoCon: 10.33
A-10: 10.67
CUSA: 14.00
CAA: 16.00
ASun: 23.00
Big South: 24.33

I am going to need folks to explain to me why they turn their nose up at that conference.

Just a thought,what if odu goes independent and schedules a lot of nearby teams like va tech east carolina etc ,sort of what liberty does and goes A10 in basketball. Would like you that over a cusa/sun merger of some kind? Or would you like to see us go backwards into the caa?

Or stay put?

(01-19-2021 10:51 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  Just a thought,what if odu goes independent and schedules a lot of nearby teams like va tech east carolina etc ,sort of what liberty does and goes A10 in basketball. Would like you that over a cusa/sun merger of some kind? Or would you like to see us go backwards into the caa?

That would be best case scenario in my opinion, but we missed our chance at that and Wood Selig may have burned the bridge. Now we need the Big East to raid a couple of the Catholic schools from the A10 and as long as we have a new AD we should be able to get in when there is an opening. Right now they are at 14 and doubtful they expand. The only thing we have going for us is I hear they are looking to move the championship back to Richmond so we would all but guarantee sellouts.


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(01-19-2021 10:51 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  Just a thought,what if odu goes independent and schedules a lot of nearby teams like va tech east carolina etc ,sort of what liberty does and goes A10 in basketball. Would like you that over a cusa/sun merger of some kind? Or would you like to see us go backwards into the caa?

I think that would be optimal as long as we can get access to bowl games right? But, that would mean the A10 would need to lose at least 1 or 2 members. They wouldn't want to expand to 15 teams. They probably want to stay at 14.

The A10 puts 4 other teams within a few hours for all sports outside football. 6 within 5 or so hours.

(01-19-2021 10:51 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  Just a thought,what if odu goes independent and schedules a lot of nearby teams like va tech east carolina etc ,sort of what liberty does and goes A10 in basketball. Would like you that over a cusa/sun merger of some kind? Or would you like to see us go backwards into the caa?

I love any scenario that gets ODU in the A10, so yes, that would be awesome. My only hesitation would be what about bowl games? I’d hate for our guys to win 9 games and stay home. But even with that, I’d still prefer the Indy/A10 option. Basketball is our best chance to make noise, compete at a higher level and is where our history lies.

(01-19-2021 01:13 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't think that we should be discussing the SoCon in the same breath as the Big South or Asun, or really even CAA. The SoCon is a much stronger conference, with teams that have fanbases that care about basketball, and the conference has a very strong history, as well as a team that made the leap to the A-10. SoCon is an upgrade from CUSA for basketball, and is significantly better than any of the other options being discussed outside of A-10.

Below is the average conference RPI rank over the last 3 years (including this season) for conferences that have been discussed here. As you will see, SoCon is a legit basketball conference.

SoCon: 10.33
A-10: 10.67
CUSA: 14.00
CAA: 16.00
ASun: 23.00
Big South: 24.33

I am going to need folks to explain to me why they turn their nose up at that conference.

The SoCon has had a couple of good years. They remind me of where the CAA used to be. No doubt they deserve respect. I just don't care about playing any of the teams in the conference. At least in CUSA we play WKU, UNCC, Marshall, UAB, La Tech... a few teams we have some history with and like to play against. The SoCon has Wofford, ETSU, Furman, UNCG... all respectable squads, but I just don't care.

(01-20-2021 08:45 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 10:51 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  Just a thought,what if odu goes independent and schedules a lot of nearby teams like va tech east carolina etc ,sort of what liberty does and goes A10 in basketball. Would like you that over a cusa/sun merger of some kind? Or would you like to see us go backwards into the caa?

I think that would be optimal as long as we can get access to bowl games right? But, that would mean the A10 would need to lose at least 1 or 2 members. They wouldn't want to expand to 15 teams. They probably want to stay at 14.

The A10 puts 4 other teams within a few hours for all sports outside football. 6 within 5 or so hours.

I agree. And being in a conference again with VCU, UR, GMU, GW, St. Joes and Davidson would be so much fun. We could actually go to away games and conference championships again.

Lol--so I will play in this one briefly and then jump back out.

Given that we're performing at a top 4-5 level on average in this league, which has a lot of schools at or near our level, we could overlay this performance to end up in the bottom 4-5 in the A10. Then we could go to conference championships with many drives back home after the opening round--fun indeed.

And then we could look forward to fully capitalized threads shouting why we need to GET OUT OF THE A10.

Of course, our recruiting, competitiveness, and results could improve but that could also happen in the current conference. I like to deal in root causes vs excuses for current circumstances. And truthfully, if we could just pick up our performance where we are, the A10 could very well come back calling--just as they did recently to add a school located all the way in Kansas with fans that face a 21 hour drive to their conference tournament.

I think ODU should just focus on being better than WKU, UAB, MTSU and LT on an almost yearly basis. We haven't done that and it is not because others in CUSA are bringing us down. It's because we're not capturing our potential in this part of the USA. But if we did, our options for any level we want would surely come over time. And while we're blaming other conference members and driving distance for our non-performance, others with the same conditions are making themselves available for AAC consideration. Personally, I would love that league for all sports vs A10, but basketball and football HAVE to win at this level pretty consistently to make that happen. Until then, I'm looking squarely at JJ and RR for program and performance improvement--in this league.

(01-20-2021 10:19 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Lol--so I will play in this one briefly and then jump back out.

Given that we're performing at a top 4-5 level on average in this league, which has a lot of schools at or near our level, we could overlay this performance to end up in the bottom 4-5 in the A10. Then we could go to conference championships with many drives back home after the opening round--fun indeed.

And then we could look forward to fully capitalized threads shouting why we need to GET OUT OF THE A10.

Of course, our recruiting, competitiveness, and results could improve but that could also happen in the current conference. I like to deal in root causes vs excuses for current circumstances. And truthfully, if we could just pick up our performance where we are, the A10 could very well come back calling--just as they did recently to add a school located all the way in Kansas with fans that face a 21 hour drive to their conference tournament.

I think ODU should just focus on being better than WKU, UAB, MTSU and LT on an almost yearly basis. We haven't done that and it is not because others in CUSA are bringing us down. It's because we're not capturing our potential in this part of the USA. But if we did, our options for any level we want would surely come over time. And while we're blaming other conference members and driving distance for our non-performance, others with the same conditions are making themselves available for AAC consideration. Personally, I would love that league for all sports vs A10, but basketball and football HAVE to win at this level pretty consistently to make that happen. Until then, I'm looking squarely at JJ and RR for program and performance improvement--in this league.

Sure, I guess its possible we could do poorly in the A10, but I really doubt it. If we have games on TV (which is huge in recruiting), sold out games much of the time (which is quite likely with conference games against the four close schools), great rivalries and a better chance at the NCAA, we will be able to recruit better. I think we would finish in the top 4 far more often than the bottom four. Of course, we would need a different coach to do so, but thats a given either way. VCU and Richmond have done well in the A10, so theres no reason we wouldn't. Even GMU has been pretty decent. I expect ODU would be better than both in the A10 most of the time, just as we were in the CAA. And regardless, nobody is shouting to get out of CUSA because of performance. We want out because the media package sucks, the rivalries suck, the geography sucks, and the basketball sucks (outside of the top 4 or 5). So even with bad performance in the A10 (which is unlikely) we'd still have good TV and media exposure, great rivalries, geographic proximity and good basketball. I'd be thrilled.

(01-20-2021 10:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 10:19 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Lol--so I will play in this one briefly and then jump back out.

Given that we're performing at a top 4-5 level on average in this league, which has a lot of schools at or near our level, we could overlay this performance to end up in the bottom 4-5 in the A10. Then we could go to conference championships with many drives back home after the opening round--fun indeed.

And then we could look forward to fully capitalized threads shouting why we need to GET OUT OF THE A10.

Of course, our recruiting, competitiveness, and results could improve but that could also happen in the current conference. I like to deal in root causes vs excuses for current circumstances. And truthfully, if we could just pick up our performance where we are, the A10 could very well come back calling--just as they did recently to add a school located all the way in Kansas with fans that face a 21 hour drive to their conference tournament.

I think ODU should just focus on being better than WKU, UAB, MTSU and LT on an almost yearly basis. We haven't done that and it is not because others in CUSA are bringing us down. It's because we're not capturing our potential in this part of the USA. But if we did, our options for any level we want would surely come over time. And while we're blaming other conference members and driving distance for our non-performance, others with the same conditions are making themselves available for AAC consideration. Personally, I would love that league for all sports vs A10, but basketball and football HAVE to win at this level pretty consistently to make that happen. Until then, I'm looking squarely at JJ and RR for program and performance improvement--in this league.

Sure, I guess its possible we could do poorly in the A10, but I really doubt it. If we have games on TV (which is huge in recruiting), sold out games much of the time (which is quite likely with conference games against the four close schools), great rivalries and a better chance at the NCAA, we will be able to recruit better. I think we would finish in the top 4 far more often than the bottom four. Of course, we would need a different coach to do so, but thats a given either way. VCU and Richmond have done well in the A10, so theres no reason we wouldn't. Even GMU has been pretty decent. I expect ODU would be better than both in the A10 most of the time, just as we were in the CAA. And regardless, nobody is shouting to get out of CUSA because of performance. We want out because the media package sucks, the rivalries suck, the geography sucks, and the basketball sucks (outside of the top 4 or 5). So even with bad performance in the A10 (which is unlikely) we'd still have good TV and media exposure, great rivalries, geographic proximity and good basketball. I'd be thrilled.

Exhibit A: George Mason, who have a Final Four on their resume and plenty of close schools and rivalries in the A10, have consistently been in the middle to bottom of the conference. Why aren’t they top 4 or 5? Are they blaming being in the A10 for their performance? Are they benefitting from TV and media?

(01-20-2021 11:14 AM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 10:58 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 10:19 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Lol--so I will play in this one briefly and then jump back out.

Given that we're performing at a top 4-5 level on average in this league, which has a lot of schools at or near our level, we could overlay this performance to end up in the bottom 4-5 in the A10. Then we could go to conference championships with many drives back home after the opening round--fun indeed.

And then we could look forward to fully capitalized threads shouting why we need to GET OUT OF THE A10.

Of course, our recruiting, competitiveness, and results could improve but that could also happen in the current conference. I like to deal in root causes vs excuses for current circumstances. And truthfully, if we could just pick up our performance where we are, the A10 could very well come back calling--just as they did recently to add a school located all the way in Kansas with fans that face a 21 hour drive to their conference tournament.

I think ODU should just focus on being better than WKU, UAB, MTSU and LT on an almost yearly basis. We haven't done that and it is not because others in CUSA are bringing us down. It's because we're not capturing our potential in this part of the USA. But if we did, our options for any level we want would surely come over time. And while we're blaming other conference members and driving distance for our non-performance, others with the same conditions are making themselves available for AAC consideration. Personally, I would love that league for all sports vs A10, but basketball and football HAVE to win at this level pretty consistently to make that happen. Until then, I'm looking squarely at JJ and RR for program and performance improvement--in this league.

Sure, I guess its possible we could do poorly in the A10, but I really doubt it. If we have games on TV (which is huge in recruiting), sold out games much of the time (which is quite likely with conference games against the four close schools), great rivalries and a better chance at the NCAA, we will be able to recruit better. I think we would finish in the top 4 far more often than the bottom four. Of course, we would need a different coach to do so, but thats a given either way. VCU and Richmond have done well in the A10, so theres no reason we wouldn't. Even GMU has been pretty decent. I expect ODU would be better than both in the A10 most of the time, just as we were in the CAA. And regardless, nobody is shouting to get out of CUSA because of performance. We want out because the media package sucks, the rivalries suck, the geography sucks, and the basketball sucks (outside of the top 4 or 5). So even with bad performance in the A10 (which is unlikely) we'd still have good TV and media exposure, great rivalries, geographic proximity and good basketball. I'd be thrilled.

Exhibit A: George Mason, who have a Final Four on their resume and plenty of close schools and rivalries in the A10, have consistently been in the middle to bottom of the conference. Why aren’t they top 4 or 5? Are they blaming being in the A10 for their performance? Are they benefitting from TV and media?

Yes. They benefit. They are also George Mason. Other than 1 sensational run in the NCAA (a year we were nearly as good as they were), they have nowhere near the history, pride and expectations of ODU basketball. And they still much prefer the A10 vs. the CAA. We care more, we invest more, we support our program more, and we expect more. If we had the resources and exposure the A10 would bring, I would be surprised if ODU didnt have its first Sweet 16 run within a decade.

The one thing that we seem to have arrived at, is that if we find someplace to stash football, the options for getting us into a better conference really open up. I am doubtful that we can arrive at a good conference where we play both football and basketball, since the options seem to be moving up to AAC (not happening) or splitting CUSA (kind of terrible for basketball, most likely).

Ranking my preferred scenarios (that don't seem completely impossible):
1. A-10 Basketball & CUSA Football
2. SoCon Basketball & CUSA Football
3. A-10 Basketball & Independent Football
4. SoCon Basketball & Independent Football
5. Reconfigured CUSA Basketball & Football

Obviously, I am a basketball first guy, so I am sure my preferences are not super attractive to the football first folks.

(01-20-2021 10:19 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Lol--so I will play in this one briefly and then jump back out.

Given that we're performing at a top 4-5 level on average in this league, which has a lot of schools at or near our level, we could overlay this performance to end up in the bottom 4-5 in the A10. Then we could go to conference championships with many drives back home after the opening round--fun indeed.

And then we could look forward to fully capitalized threads shouting why we need to GET OUT OF THE A10.

Of course, our recruiting, competitiveness, and results could improve but that could also happen in the current conference. I like to deal in root causes vs excuses for current circumstances. And truthfully, if we could just pick up our performance where we are, the A10 could very well come back calling--just as they did recently to add a school located all the way in Kansas with fans that face a 21 hour drive to their conference tournament.

I think ODU should just focus on being better than WKU, UAB, MTSU and LT on an almost yearly basis. We haven't done that and it is not because others in CUSA are bringing us down. It's because we're not capturing our potential in this part of the USA. But if we did, our options for any level we want would surely come over time. And while we're blaming other conference members and driving distance for our non-performance, others with the same conditions are making themselves available for AAC consideration. Personally, I would love that league for all sports vs A10, but basketball and football HAVE to win at this level pretty consistently to make that happen. Until then, I'm looking squarely at JJ and RR for program and performance improvement--in this league.

This is just wrong on a lot of levels. First, the fact that our basketball program is in CUSA is a big part of the reason that we are falling behind. Our ability to recruit goes through the roof if we are in A-10 vs CUSA. Yes, JJ is a problem, and that would need to be rectified for us to complete in the A-10, but that needs to happen anyway and we would be better positioned to hire a really good coach if we were in the A-10. We would also see an influx of cash playing there from attendance and NCAAT payouts that would allow us to fund a better hire.

Further, everyone understands that A-10 is the best possible place for us to play basketball. Our rivals are there, it is regional, it is often a multi bid league, nobody that is the least bit knowledgeable about basketball is going to be calling for us to get the hell out of A-10 if we are there. If we are failing to compete, we will be calling for our AD to better position us to win that league. The only better place for us to be is the AAC for all sports, and that just aint happening anytime soon.

Basketball has to be a priority for our Admin. They hired a consultant to tell them that, when frankly it should have been obvious. As a mid major, we are not making our mark with football anytime in the near future. You have to build the ODU athletics brand via basketball while you give the football program time to mature into something akin to ECU. That will take a long time and a lot of success.

Let's build the brand and look at the AAC.

(01-19-2021 01:13 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't think that we should be discussing the SoCon in the same breath as the Big South or Asun, or really even CAA. The SoCon is a much stronger conference, with teams that have fanbases that care about basketball, and the conference has a very strong history, as well as a team that made the leap to the A-10. SoCon is an upgrade from CUSA for basketball, and is significantly better than any of the other options being discussed outside of A-10.

Below is the average conference RPI rank over the last 3 years (including this season) for conferences that have been discussed here. As you will see, SoCon is a legit basketball conference.

SoCon: 10.33
A-10: 10.67
CUSA: 14.00
CAA: 16.00
ASun: 23.00
Big South: 24.33

I am going to need folks to explain to me why they turn their nose up at that conference.

They may have a better conference RPI, but I would have zero interest in an ODU/VMI game or an ODU/Citadel Game. Ohhhh Furman and Wofford next week....meh. I am being sarcastic, no offense or disrespect intended.