Or if Texahoma indeed survives as a thing in a temporary move and we actually do have 4 x 16 until the 3027 contract expiration.

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame
UVa, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State

Any or all of the divisions in each of the four conferences could be tweaked to provide better divisions and what is listed is not in crossover order.

If Texas/Oklahoma join the Pac-12, the SEC and Big 10 aren't going to settle for Little 8 members just to match the "Pac-16" in size (if you assume they relent and add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech as well). In fact, they're better off keeping 14 members as the pie slices are bigger when cut 14 ways rather than 16. If Notre Dame wants to join the ACC, maybe West Virginia gets in but the academic minded presidents like I'll bet your UNC one is will certainly fight their admission and other schools will also be considered.

I think a 4x14 is more likely than a 4x16 (Oklahoma and Texas just join the Pac-12 and the Big Ten, ACC, and SEC stand pat). If Texas Tech and Oklahoma State (or Kansas) join the party in the Pac-16, the other conferences will just let the Pac-16 be the biggest conference in membership. There has to be a real reason for one of them to invite a member and if Texas and Oklahoma aren't available and the ACC (including Notre Dame) are locked into the GOR there isn't one.

(11-28-2020 08:53 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If Texas/Oklahoma join the Pac-12, the SEC and Big 10 aren't going to settle for Little 8 members just to match the "Pac-16" in size (if you assume they relent and add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech as well). In fact, they're better off keeping 14 members as the pie slices are bigger when cut 14 ways rather than 16. If Notre Dame wants to join the ACC, maybe West Virginia gets in but the academic minded presidents like I'll bet your UNC one is will certainly fight their admission and other schools will also be considered.

I think a 4x14 is more likely than a 4x16 (Oklahoma and Texas just join the Pac-12 and the Big Ten, ACC, and SEC stand pat). If Texas Tech and Oklahoma State (or Kansas) join the party in the Pac-16, the other conferences will just let the Pac-16 be the biggest conference in membership. There has to be a real reason for one of them to invite a member and if Texas and Oklahoma aren't available and the ACC (including Notre Dame) are locked into the GOR there isn't one.

No way will Oklahoma and Texas join the PAC and be on island........ especially for their other sports teams.

(11-28-2020 08:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  Or if Texahoma indeed survives as a thing in a temporary move and we actually do have 4 x 16 until the 3027 contract expiration.

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame
UVa, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State

Any or all of the divisions in each of the four conferences could be tweaked to provide better divisions and what is listed is not in crossover order.

I believe you omitted Kansas State.

(11-28-2020 11:11 AM)texoma Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 08:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  Or if Texahoma indeed survives as a thing in a temporary move and we actually do have 4 x 16 until the 3027 contract expiration.

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame
UVa, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State

Any or all of the divisions in each of the four conferences could be tweaked to provide better divisions and what is listed is not in crossover order.

I believe you omitted Kansas State.

I'm guessing he didn't. If it's 4x16 and Notre Dame is included, someone's left out.

(11-28-2020 11:23 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 11:11 AM)texoma Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 08:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  Or if Texahoma indeed survives as a thing in a temporary move and we actually do have 4 x 16 until the 3027 contract expiration.

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame
UVa, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State

Any or all of the divisions in each of the four conferences could be tweaked to provide better divisions and what is listed is not in crossover order.

I believe you omitted Kansas State.

I'm guessing he didn't. If it's 4x16 and Notre Dame is included, someone's left out.

(11-28-2020 12:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 11:23 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 11:11 AM)texoma Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 08:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  Or if Texahoma indeed survives as a thing in a temporary move and we actually do have 4 x 16 until the 3027 contract expiration.

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame
UVa, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State

Any or all of the divisions in each of the four conferences could be tweaked to provide better divisions and what is listed is not in crossover order.

I believe you omitted Kansas State.

I'm guessing he didn't. If it's 4x16 and Notre Dame is included, someone's left out.

I believe Kansas State has a better football program than some of those included.

(11-28-2020 04:31 PM)texoma Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 12:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 11:23 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 11:11 AM)texoma Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 08:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  Or if Texahoma indeed survives as a thing in a temporary move and we actually do have 4 x 16 until the 3027 contract expiration.

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Notre Dame
UVa, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State

Any or all of the divisions in each of the four conferences could be tweaked to provide better divisions and what is listed is not in crossover order.

I believe you omitted Kansas State.

I'm guessing he didn't. If it's 4x16 and Notre Dame is included, someone's left out.

I believe Kansas State has a better football program than some of those included.

Not everything's football. And if we assume these conferences are the Pac-16, SEC, Big Ten, and ACC, they aren't going to evict any members and are going to choose the members that geographically, academically, and culturally fit them the most so Kansas State is the least attractive in those categories.

At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They’ve been in a basketball league for too long—they’ve starting playing football like a basketball school.

(11-29-2020 03:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They’ve been in a basketball league for too long—they’ve starting playing football like a basketball school.

Here lately they aren't playing football at all - which may have been Kap's point.

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

(11-29-2020 07:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

Tell you what, we in the Big Ten will give you Nebraska for Florida State. One washed up football program for another. We'll at least have the Florida market.

(11-29-2020 08:10 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

Tell you what, we in the Big Ten will give you Nebraska for Florida State. One washed up football program for another. We'll at least have the Florida market.

The B1G has nothing we want.

(11-29-2020 08:10 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

Tell you what, we in the Big Ten will give you Nebraska for Florida State. One washed up football program for another. We'll at least have the Florida market.

Why trade you are already on equal footing. The Big 10 has one contender, Ohio State. The ACC has one contender, Clemson. The ACC has hopes for Notre Dame, the Big 10 doesn't. After that both conferences have half of their membership that can't or won't really try to compete and both have 4 or 5 more that try hard to make it interesting.

What you are really saying with your offer is that the Big 10's only chance to have future relevance is to get a Southern team in a recruit rich state. That's true. And that is what Iowa, Ohio State and Penn State are gong to have to think about in the not too distant future. All the ACC has to do is to commit more solidly to the game. The Big 10 literally has to find a way into the South.

So while I find truth in you situation why should the ACC trade? I can't think of a single good reason!

(11-29-2020 08:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 08:10 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

Tell you what, we in the Big Ten will give you Nebraska for Florida State. One washed up football program for another. We'll at least have the Florida market.

Why trade you are already on equal footing. The Big 10 has one contender, Ohio State. The ACC has one contender, Clemson. The ACC has hopes for Notre Dame, the Big 10 doesn't. After that both conferences have half of their membership that can't or won't really try to compete and both have 4 or 5 more that try hard to make it interesting.

What you are really saying with your offer is that the Big 10's only chance to have future relevance is to get a Southern team in a recruit rich state. That's true. And that is what Iowa, Ohio State and Penn State are gong to have to think about in the not too distant future. All the ACC has to do is to commit more solidly to the game. The Big 10 literally has to find a way into the South.

So while I find truth in you situation why should the ACC trade? I can't think of a single good reason!

The truth is that the Big 12 has only one contender, Oklahoma, while the PAC unfortunately has none.
The SEC has Alabama, but also has a host of teams, led by Georgia, Florida and LSU poised to knock the Tide off of their pedestal. Soon Texas A&M will be added to that list. All of the SEC schools mentioned have the biggest stadiums and athletic departments focused on football championships. The other "big stadium" school in the SEC is Tennessee and they are also focused, but have run into the same problem that the B1G has. They have to go further south to find enough elite football talent to compete.

Interestingly Florida State only lacks money to be competitive on the national stage which the ACC doesn't provide in sufficient quantity, and the SEC can.
Clemson has been able be successful by packaging themselves as a SEC alternative, which is a lesson that could benefit Tennessee.

(11-30-2020 06:13 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 08:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 08:10 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

Tell you what, we in the Big Ten will give you Nebraska for Florida State. One washed up football program for another. We'll at least have the Florida market.

Why trade you are already on equal footing. The Big 10 has one contender, Ohio State. The ACC has one contender, Clemson. The ACC has hopes for Notre Dame, the Big 10 doesn't. After that both conferences have half of their membership that can't or won't really try to compete and both have 4 or 5 more that try hard to make it interesting.

What you are really saying with your offer is that the Big 10's only chance to have future relevance is to get a Southern team in a recruit rich state. That's true. And that is what Iowa, Ohio State and Penn State are gong to have to think about in the not too distant future. All the ACC has to do is to commit more solidly to the game. The Big 10 literally has to find a way into the South.

So while I find truth in you situation why should the ACC trade? I can't think of a single good reason!

The truth is that the Big 12 has only one contender, Oklahoma, while the PAC unfortunately has none.
The SEC has Alabama, but also has a host of teams, led by Georgia, Florida and LSU poised to knock the Tide off of their pedestal. Soon Texas A&M will be added to that list. All of the SEC schools mentioned have the biggest stadiums and athletic departments focused on football championships. The other "big stadium" school in the SEC is Tennessee and they are also focused, but have run into the same problem that the B1G has. They have to go further south to find enough elite football talent to compete.

Interestingly Florida State only lacks money to be competitive on the national stage which the ACC doesn't provide in sufficient quantity, and the SEC can.
Clemson has been able be successful by packaging themselves as a SEC alternative, which is a lesson that could benefit Tennessee.

I'm not sure how the bolded works with your underlined assertion.

(11-29-2020 07:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 07:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2020 05:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-28-2020 07:18 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  At this point are we sure Florida State hasn't departed the ACC?

They should. They can't compete with Clemson anymore.
Clemson has done to Florida State what the USA under Reagan's leadership did to the USSR. The 'noles are broke and non-competitive.

Who in the ACC is competing with Clemson?

Nobody.
But no other in the ACC school has bankrupted themselves trying to keep up with the Tigers.

Dabo is just having fun with his base...at the expense of FSU. Creating some news and keeping the focus on his Tigers. It generates attention for his players, the team and even the conference.

On the other hand, FSU is still in the wilderness about their strategic direction for athletics. The ex-management team of Eric Barron (president) and Stan Wilcox (AD) appeared to be striving to make the Seminoles a national all-sports powerhouse. Their desired peers seemed to be the Florida Gators, Texas Longhorns and/or Ohio State Buckeyes. Unfortunately, their donor base and fan support is not as deep as their role models. The new administrative team (John Thrasher/President and David Coburn/AD) seems to be inexperienced and has struggled with football decisions. They have mishandled the Jimbo Fisher, Willie Taggart and Mike Norvell transitions...which have resulted in ill-timed financial losses.

Nevertheless, FSU has way too many advantages to be down too long in football. FSU is not like Tennessee or Nebraska...where recruits are a scarce commodity in their home state. FSU is also not like Miami or Southern Cal...where athletic branding is distinct from the general university community. The Seminoles should be competitive in football fairly soon.