How does realignment play out if SMU doesn't get shut down for 2 years? I suspect Arkansas jumps anyway, due to feeling like an outsider. Texas might seek greener pastures with their rivals (OU and A&M). What else happens?

(11-13-2020 10:27 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How does realignment play out if SMU doesn't get shut down for 2 years? I suspect Arkansas jumps anyway, due to feeling like an outsider. Texas might seek greener pastures with their rivals (OU and A&M). What else happens?

My guess is that they come along for the ride in the Big 12 and maybe Baylor is relegated to the WAC or CUSA. But SMU wouldn’t have gotten the players if that didn’t happen... or are you asking if they didn’t get caught?

Probably no difference, although the butterfly effect moves in mysterious ways.

I just had a long chat with a coach for SMU at the time and man he has some great stories. SMU players were cheated - UT and A&M players were getting 5 times more.

He offered an A&M player $10,000 and the kid laughed saying it would be double the $100,000 from A&M.


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I was thinking "don't get caught".

(11-13-2020 10:39 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  I just had a long chat with a coach for SMU at the time and man he has some great stories. SMU players were cheated - UT and A&M players were getting 5 times more.

He offered an A&M player $10,000 and the kid laughed saying it would be double the $100,000 from A&M.


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Eric Dickerson’s Gold Trans A&M. Lol

(11-13-2020 10:43 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I was thinking "don't get caught".

In that case, I’ll bet they are P5

(11-13-2020 10:32 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(11-13-2020 10:27 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How does realignment play out if SMU doesn't get shut down for 2 years? I suspect Arkansas jumps anyway, due to feeling like an outsider. Texas might seek greener pastures with their rivals (OU and A&M). What else happens?

My guess is that they come along for the ride in the Big 12 and maybe Baylor is relegated to the WAC or CUSA. But SMU wouldn’t have gotten the players if that didn’t happen... or are you asking if they didn’t get caught?

Yeah, that's basically what it likely would have come down to - Baylor or SMU for the fourth and final spot in the Big 12.

No telling who gets it because no telling how good SMU would have been from 1987 - 1995 without the death penalty. Baylor wasn't much good during that time, but before they started to cheat wholesale neither was SMU.

(11-13-2020 10:39 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  I just had a long chat with a coach for SMU at the time and man he has some great stories. SMU players were cheated - UT and A&M players were getting 5 times more.

He offered an A&M player $10,000 and the kid laughed saying it would be double the $100,000 from A&M.


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Probably the same result. UT and A&M just wanted to leave the privates behind, including Baylor. They were forced to bring Tech and Baylor along by the Texas legislature. If not for that, the SWC might have survived and backfilled with someone else.

(11-13-2020 10:48 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(11-13-2020 10:39 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  I just had a long chat with a coach for SMU at the time and man he has some great stories. SMU players were cheated - UT and A&M players were getting 5 times more.

He offered an A&M player $10,000 and the kid laughed saying it would be double the $100,000 from A&M.


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Eric Dickerson’s Gold Trans A&M. Lol

A&M only paid the deposit, SMU got stuck with the $8,000 to pay it off

If SMU doesn’t get caught...

The XII actually forms as the XIV with SMU to the South and BYU to the North.

XIV
North: BYU, Colorado, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, Nebraska
South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, SMU, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech

Eventually, Colorado heads to the PAC with Utah. Nebraska joins the B1G. Texas A&M and SMU go to the SEC. These moves leave the XIV at 10.

SEC
West: Alabama, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, SMU, Texas A&M
East: Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
>> Alabama pushes for divisionless or 3 cross-division games to play Auburn and Tennessee annually.

If the XIV decides to remain at 10, TCU is in the AAC along with West Virginia:

AAC Football
West: Houston, Memphis, Navy, TCU, Tulane, Tulsa
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, East Carolina, South Florida, Temple, West Virginia

If the XIV decides to go to 12, TCU and West Virginia join. The AAC then adds Marshall and...Rice - at the request of the entire West division. CUSA sits at 12.

XIV
North: BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

AAC Football
West: Houston, Memphis, Navy, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Marshall, South Florida, Temple

I assume SMU wouldn't have survived the arms race without cheating?

SMU would have been added to C-USA the same time as TCU. This almost happened anyway.

The Big 8 and the SWC would have just merged ...In that case they would still be together today ...


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All of the former SWC teams, except possibly Rice, are better today than when the conference broke up. Many of them went through some very dark days, but came out better than before. If SMU had not received the death penalty, the SWC would probably still exist minus UT and A&M but with Tulane and UTEP and maybe Tulsa instead. It would probably be the strongest G5 conference.

I’m intrigued by the idea of a Big XIV with SMU and BYU in the mix.

Playing with that concept, Houston still goes to C-USA.

WAC 16 looks different too (and more like 14)

West: Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno St, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah
Mountain: Wyoming, AFA, Colorado St, UNM, UTEP, TCU, Rice

Maybe this time there’s no WAC split up

(11-14-2020 03:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m intrigued by the idea of a Big XIV with SMU and BYU in the mix.

Playing with that concept, Houston still goes to C-USA.

WAC 16 looks different too (and more like 14)

West: Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno St, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah
Mountain: Wyoming, AFA, Colorado St, UNM, UTEP, TCU, Rice

Maybe this time there’s no WAC split up

Sorry but I can't imagine any scenario with UT or A&M and SMU in the same conference. Even if SMU didn't get the death penalty. SMU was just too much competition for them in recruiting Texas.

(11-14-2020 03:46 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 03:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m intrigued by the idea of a Big XIV with SMU and BYU in the mix.

Playing with that concept, Houston still goes to C-USA.

WAC 16 looks different too (and more like 14)

West: Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno St, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah
Mountain: Wyoming, AFA, Colorado St, UNM, UTEP, TCU, Rice

Maybe this time there’s no WAC split up

Sorry but I can't imagine any scenario with UT or A&M and SMU in the same conference. Even if SMU didn't get the death penalty. SMU was just too much competition for them in recruiting Texas.

So let’s say they get left out but they are still playing at a really high level. What’s their path like within the non-BCS conferences?

Does C-USA want them in addition/in place of Houston?

If they go to the WAC does an awesome SMU team keep the Airport 5 from leaving or do the Airport 5 make SMU part of their breakaway at the expense of say UNLV or SDSU?

(11-14-2020 05:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 03:46 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 03:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m intrigued by the idea of a Big XIV with SMU and BYU in the mix.

Playing with that concept, Houston still goes to C-USA.

WAC 16 looks different too (and more like 14)

West: Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno St, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah
Mountain: Wyoming, AFA, Colorado St, UNM, UTEP, TCU, Rice

Maybe this time there’s no WAC split up

Sorry but I can't imagine any scenario with UT or A&M and SMU in the same conference. Even if SMU didn't get the death penalty. SMU was just too much competition for them in recruiting Texas.

So let’s say they get left out but they are still playing at a really high level. What’s their path like within the non-BCS conferences?

Does C-USA want them in addition/in place of Houston?

If they go to the WAC does an awesome SMU team keep the Airport 5 from leaving or do the Airport 5 make SMU part of their breakaway at the expense of say UNLV or SDSU?

I don't know, they might have gone to the SEC. C-USA was an unknown at the time. And the WAC was weak and out of their footprint. They belonged in the SWC. Too bad UT, A&M and Arkansas were so greedy. Even the weakened SMU beat Arkansas regularly.

How about the Big East? They went outside of their footprint to pick up a big market private school with a hotshot football program. Maybe SMU becomes the 9th Big East football school in 1996 if they are still a good program but Texas and TAMU cut them out of the Big 12 move.

for them to go to the SEC, the SEC would have to have a 14th lined up. Florida St had already turned them down and both VT and WVU were considered too far north. 14 was also uncharted territory in the mid 90s.