(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

money and connections

(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

Appointment by the Governor


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(09-24-2020 01:24 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

money and connections

So, we have law degree, money, connections, and appointment by the governor. I'm out.

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(09-24-2020 07:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 01:24 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

money and connections

So, we have law degree, money, connections, and appointment by the governor. I'm out.

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You don't need that headache. You already have the prestigious position of moderator on this fine board

(09-24-2020 08:05 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 07:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 01:24 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

money and connections

So, we have law degree, money, connections, and appointment by the governor. I'm out.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

You don't need that headache. You already have the prestigious position of moderator on this fine board

My question is, how many, if any, have a connection with A&M??

(09-24-2020 09:56 AM)Biggjohn43 Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 08:05 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 07:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 01:24 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

money and connections

So, we have law degree, money, connections, and appointment by the governor. I'm out.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

You don't need that headache. You already have the prestigious position of moderator on this fine board

My question is, how many, if any, have a connection with A&M??

Assume we arent looking at the Aggies, but nearly all have a W&M degree and live in Virginia
https://www.wm.edu/about/administration/.../index.php

(09-24-2020 09:56 AM)Biggjohn43 Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 08:05 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 07:45 AM)Tribal Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 01:24 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  

(09-23-2020 09:24 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  Separate but related note: how does one even get on the BOV?

I assume it involves a lot of politicking.

money and connections

So, we have law degree, money, connections, and appointment by the governor. I'm out.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

You don't need that headache. You already have the prestigious position of moderator on this fine board

My question is, how many, if any, have a connection with A&M??

Zero.

Nearly all of them earned a degree or degrees from W&M. Very few appear to have an athletic bone in their body.

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Iowa is dealing with the same situation we are. Cut a number of sports, AD is receiving lots of pushback and criticism for the way it was handled, and has said the decision is final regardless. Very similar situation as well, where cuts were already being planned prior to COVID induced loss of revenue.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/09/23/io...all-return

(09-23-2020 07:44 PM)nj alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2020 09:55 AM)Old tribe Wrote:  

(09-16-2020 08:30 AM)nj alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2020 08:03 AM)irisheyes0008 Wrote:  This author of the article has family ties to the swimming program and this is just another hit piece. There were several missteps by athletics and from the school administration on the way to cutting sports. These sports are a black hole when it comes to the university/athletics budget. Swimming as a powerhouse in the CAA...they swim against 5 other schools..that is like being the best at sharpening pencils..not that impressive actually but good on them for their run...also this money they are "raising"...it's called a pledge to donate-there is no money in hand. Volleyball has been a 1 million dollar black hole for many years...all the information is out there if you search for it instead of trying to get people to gather with pitchforks and lanterns. Up until WM cut gymnastics there were not many D1 schools our size that fielded a team that wasn't a club level sport.

Many large athletic programs; Minnesota, Central Michigan, Cincinnati, ECU, ect.., have had to make cuts-what makes any of us think we were exempt. The bigger issue is why are professors making so much money compared to the rest of the staff and administrators all across the campus. Bloated professor salaries are the real problem but that is not sexy to talk about.

Every sport at W&M ... every single sport ... is a “black hole” financially.

On the other hand, every sport at W&M ... every single sport ... is a successful student athlete model.

When W&M was founded, there was only one other school in the land. That didn’t stop the school from being founded. Similarly, the number of other like problems is irrelevant to me ... in fact, it’s better for the school in terms of athletic quality if there aren’t “many games in town”.

Our Administration was disingenuous with, or outwardly lied to (or somewhere in the middle), all of the stakeholders, with the exception of a chosen few, and that is a big deal. How on earth do you run a multi-year campaign, bring in over one billion dollars, and nary a peep about the Tribe 7 in that campaign? HOW?

The rationale is the 2025 Vision Report. Fine. The proper approach would have been to combine For the Bold and 2025 Vision, and see where the chips land. That wasn’t done here!

Appalling treatment of the stakeholders. Why would anyone donate to this school while the current Administration is in place when trust has been so seriously eroded?

Frankly, pressure needs to be brought for a “do-over” of For The Bold because of the disingenuous way the Tribe 7 situation has been handled.

At the heart of all of this is a disagreement on what people want athletics at W&M to be. Some want it to continue as a broad based program (more broad than similar sized schools with similar resources) where resources are stretched thin for all teams and athletics doesn't do much to add to W&M's national profile and awareness. Others, including the current administration, want to put more resources towards programs where continued success can enhance W&M's national profile and awareness. So current decisions are being made with that goal in mind.

You can disagree with how the decision to cut was communicated, but this is the real issue. And the decision to take the latter approach to athletics comes from the administration/BOV. So all the vitriol for the AD is misplaced in my opinion. And before Tribal accuses me of being a relative of Huge or Huge herself, let me say I've never met the woman or had any sort of interaction or communication with her in my life.

(09-23-2020 07:35 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  2 hours and the BOV meeting still goes on. Highly disappointing that President Rowe sent her letter before listening to so many voices tonight. Hard to read it as anything other than continued support for our AD. Lots of students from varied backgrounds speaking very well, especially about what has made William and Mary special to them. It seems very clear that the decision has already been made and their experiences are irrelevant to the decisionmakers. That is, unless the BOV reverses course. I don't see how our AD can stay if that occurs.

I doubt any of the well crafted thoughts ultimately makes a difference. Although, around the time I graduated swimming was saved once before. So, I guess there is a small chance.

This issue is over. The resistance is universal and overwhelming. Faculty are going to “no confidence” the AD next month ... the AD skipped out on Spring meetings to inform the faculty. The sports are getting reinstated. There will be no school, and no donor base left, if these sports aren’t reinstated.

The only question is whether Rowe survives this.

It's not over because Rowe supports the moves and the strategic plan for W&M athletics. I highly doubt all of the sports get reinstated. No school if they don't get reinstated?! Please.

The debate about what W&M athletics will be is not over. If the department is going to exist just to sponsor as many teams as possible so that as many athletes as possible can compete at the varsity level, with each team generally at the bottom of resources for peer schools, W&M should drop to D3. There's no point in being in D1 unless you're going to dedicate more resources to higher profile sports. The point of being in D1 in today's college athletics environment is to use certain sports as marketing vehicles for the school. Some may not agree with it, but that's how it works today and that's what W&M is doing. Even Harvard, Yale, and Patriot League schools get this and have made similar resource allocation moves. With the football program being FCS, men's and women's basketball should get as many resources as possible. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to cut sports to do that, but with limited resources W&M has made the decision to go about it that way.

Old Tribe-

Did you listen to what was said last night?

If not, I’ll be happy to post a transcript of every word.

Everything said last night ... I’m hearing from all associated with W&M.

You change the uniqueness of W&M .... you affect the donor base .... and you won’t be able to raise a billion dollars. Oh that’s right, they just did that, and then cut the sports of their donors.

The school, as we know it, is dead if the Tribe 7 aren’t reinstated.

(09-23-2020 09:42 PM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  

(09-23-2020 09:17 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  According to the Save Swimming facebook page, members of the cut women's teams have retained an attorney -- apparently the same one involved in keeping WBB from being cut in 1991. (Don't remember that myself). Her letter to President Rowe is on that page -- don't know how to link it here.

Great. Even the lawyer uses "William and Mary College". I will refrain from criticizing a recruit again.

This dude has lost his fastball. Multiple grammar errors in the letter. Looks like zero proofreading. Sloppy effort.

It's also not accurate. The letter is criticizing W&M for making decisions that actually IMPROVE its Title IX compliance, with the male/female makeup of varsity athletes moving to be more in line with the make up of the student body.

Title IX as it relates to college athletics has a 3 part test. Schools must meet all 3 parts of the test to be in compliance. The letter focuses on the first prong of the test: that schools effectively accommodate the athletic interests and abilities of their male and female students. There are 3 potential ways to satisfy this first prong, two of which have nothing to do with the comparison of the male/female make up of the student body and the male/female make up of varsity athletes. W&M has likely determined that with the cuts it is in compliance with the first prong based on an analysis of one of these two options. And if it's true that rowing and softball are going to be added that would contribute to that analysis.

By asking W&M to reinstate the cut women's sports, the letter is actually asking W&M to move farther out of compliance in the male/female makeup of varsity athletes as compared to the make up of the student body than it would be with the cuts.

(09-24-2020 11:00 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Old Tribe-

Did you listen to what was said last night?

If not, I’ll be happy to post a transcript of every word.

Everything said last night ... I’m hearing from all associated with W&M.

You change the uniqueness of W&M .... you affect the donor base .... and you won’t be able to raise a billion dollars. Oh that’s right, they just did that, and then cut the sports of their donors.

The school, as we know it, is dead if the Tribe 7 aren’t reinstated.

I don't doubt that everyone who spoke last night was against the cuts. The point of the meeting was for those who are opposed to speak and for the BOV to listen. That doesn't mean all associated with W&M are opposed to the new athletics vision. There are lots of other donors besides those who donated to the 7 sports.

If there can be no change to "the uniqueness of W&M" (whatever that means), then it really should drop to D3.

(09-24-2020 11:07 AM)Old tribe Wrote:  It's also not accurate. The letter is criticizing W&M for making decisions that actually IMPROVE its Title IX compliance, with the male/female makeup of varsity athletes moving to be more in line with the make up of the student body.

Title IX as it relates to college athletics has a 3 part test. Schools must meet all 3 parts of the test to be in compliance. The letter focuses on the first prong of the test: that schools effectively accommodate the athletic interests and abilities of their male and female students. There are 3 potential ways to satisfy this first prong, two of which have nothing to do with the comparison of the male/female make up of the student body and the male/female make up of varsity athletes. W&M has likely determined that with the cuts it is in compliance with the first prong based on an analysis of one of these two options. And if it's true that rowing and softball are going to be added that would contribute to that analysis.

By asking W&M to reinstate the cut women's sports, the letter is actually asking W&M to move farther out of compliance in the male/female makeup of varsity athletes as compared to the make up of the student body than it would be with the cuts.

The notion that they would cut these seven sports citing lack of resources and then turn around and add two new sports is so totally, laughably ludicrous that it will probably turn out to be true.

This is the professor who spoke last night and wants a vote of no confidence to remove Huge. This isn't the mother of a cut 7 athlete.


https://www.wm.edu/as/english/facultysta...dorn_s.php

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(09-24-2020 11:12 AM)Old tribe Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 11:00 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Old Tribe-

Did you listen to what was said last night?

If not, I’ll be happy to post a transcript of every word.

Everything said last night ... I’m hearing from all associated with W&M.

You change the uniqueness of W&M .... you affect the donor base .... and you won’t be able to raise a billion dollars. Oh that’s right, they just did that, and then cut the sports of their donors.

The school, as we know it, is dead if the Tribe 7 aren’t reinstated.

I don't doubt that everyone who spoke last night was against the cuts. The point of the meeting was for those who are opposed to speak and for the BOV to listen. That doesn't mean all associated with W&M are opposed to the new athletics vision. There are lots of other donors besides those who donated to the 7 sports.

If there can be no change to "the uniqueness of W&M" (whatever that means), then it really should drop to D3.

Perhaps you are willing to trade the opportunity for 118 gifted, dedicated student athletes to compete in their sport while representing the College with pride for a slightly improved chance for the WM men’s basketball team to play one nationally televised basketball game in the NCAA tournament. Not a guarantee, just an improved chance of something that is likely to happen eventually regardless. Is this the model we should be so BOLD as to emulate? My ego is not so great, that I’m willing to sacrifice the experience of 118 student athletes that bring so much to the university community during and well after their time at the College, so I can thump my chest around the water cooler come March Madness time. WM’s academics speak for themselves, we don’t need the perceived prestige boost that comes from participating in a rigged basketball tournament.

Trust that it’s not just the alums of the cancelled 7 that are pulling support. My wife and I both played sports that weren’t cut, but WM has seen the last dollar from us until these sports are restored or there is at least a good faith effort to restore them. At this point, it's obvious the Huge would need to resign or be fired for this to happen and we’re totally fine with that.

(09-24-2020 11:12 AM)Old tribe Wrote:  

(09-24-2020 11:00 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Old Tribe-

Did you listen to what was said last night?

If not, I’ll be happy to post a transcript of every word.

Everything said last night ... I’m hearing from all associated with W&M.

You change the uniqueness of W&M .... you affect the donor base .... and you won’t be able to raise a billion dollars. Oh that’s right, they just did that, and then cut the sports of their donors.

The school, as we know it, is dead if the Tribe 7 aren’t reinstated.

I don't doubt that everyone who spoke last night was against the cuts. The point of the meeting was for those who are opposed to speak and for the BOV to listen. That doesn't mean all associated with W&M are opposed to the new athletics vision. There are lots of other donors besides those who donated to the 7 sports.

If there can be no change to "the uniqueness of W&M" (whatever that means), then it really should drop to D3.

I don’t know what the point of the meeting was, but for the first time in the tenure of the current Administration, there was a public discussion, albeit one way.

The pro-termination crowd needs to crawl out, face the sunlight, and intellectually explain this. After what I heard last night, it is not defensible.

How about if I post the transcript of every speech. Are you interested in engaging, and rebutting each person’s argument?

I think the point OldTribe is missing is that the 2 goals are not mutually exclusive. You can attempt to increase the funding for 3 major sports to try and chase the dream without cutting other sports. The most dishonest part of all of this is that there was no attempt or intention to retain any of the sports that were cut. If the entire decision is about finances, then football should be cut because it is likely the loss leader. But, given the rich history and tradition of the program, it is virtually certain that alumni, coaches, and students would be given some opportunity to prevent that.

Given that we are constantly crying poor in the athletic department, I find it even more shocking that we have hired a bunch of new administrative staff in the last few years, paid a successful coach well over a million dollars to not coach, and paid over 2 million dollars to resurface a field and track that now houses a cut program. Almost certainly that totals over 4 million dollars which is enough to likely change the narrative significantly about the department finances.

Cuts have gone on in all aspects of college life forever. But, the lack of awareness(or perhaps care?) by the current staff certainly helps all to understand why revenue and fundraising are down. Clearly, to be fair, we have to look at 2019 numbers since those were pre-pandemic. Those numbers indicated a significant problem. One way to resolve the problem is to divert funds from other places and ignore the cries from disgruntled alumni. Hopefully, it is not the case here. But, it is reasonable given the statements so far to think that it is plan Ms. Huge and perhaps the rest of the leadership intends to go with.

The students were advised to support each other and all events from sports, theatre, singing groups, clubs, and any activities. One Tribe, One Family was an excellent mantra that helped to give students and their families a way to identify with each other. That special quality existed long before the slogan started showing up on t-shirts and around campus.

If Huge is to be believed(that all these sports were destined to be cut when she was hired 3 years ago), then the one and one Omar missed in 2014 was the most expensive miss in Tribe sports history.(FWIW, we aren't in that spot but for the great 2nd half he and the rest of the Tribe played on that night) I liked the comment from the current student who said last night, I missed the meeting when we decided we wanted to be VCU or George Mason.

Radio silence from surviving program athletes. I assume coaches told them to stay out of it. Unfortunate, given how vocal they've been about other causes...you'd think they would rally around fellow student-athletes.

Big celebrations all around for 100% voter registration, so yay to that big deal.

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(09-24-2020 10:15 AM)Old tribe Wrote:  Iowa is dealing with the same situation we are. Cut a number of sports, AD is receiving lots of pushback and criticism for the way it was handled, and has said the decision is final regardless. Very similar situation as well, where cuts were already being planned prior to COVID induced loss of revenue.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/09/23/io...all-return

This is very similar.

Article from the Daily Press on last night's session.

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/vp-sp-...utType=amp