(08-05-2020 02:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: (08-05-2020 01:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: Our military experts apparently told the President that they thought it was an attack.
My issue with the thrust of your argument is we don't have evidence that our military advisers did what you allege in the bold.
You are 100% correct that Trump reported that to the press, but when other military representatives were asked, they basically refuted the idea that the military thinks it was an attack. Frankly, three unnamed DOD officials are equally as credible as this POTUS, unfortunately, this POTUS is who makes the headlines.
I don't think his advisers threw unverified information at POTUS, I think they carefully chose what they wanted to tell him and likely gave him a complete picture of all possibilities. I think that the discussion was more detailed and nuanced than POTUS made it out to be.
By the way, Esper has now publicly stated that most believe the explosion was an accident, but that information was still being collected. You know, discussing the issue in a way where he provides information about the most likely outcome, without jumping to a conclusion. You may call that PC, but it's important for leaders to provide the entire picture (which Trump did not do).
I missed this... This demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about... and you're so blinded by 'outrage' that you can't even see it in yourself.
The President said it... and CNN also named two other experts who agree. To act as if this is 'spit balling' or 'the first thing that comes to his mouth' is without any evidence whatsoever. You simply don't believe anything he says... and prefer the comments by unnamed sources.... This is why I say, he could spit gold and you'd have an issue with it. OMB
Let's look at what Esper actually said...
'most believe' that it was an accident as reported. Well yeah, that's true. That doesn't mean its right, nor does it mean that he believes it, nor does it mean that our military leaders who consulted Trump believe it. "Most' believe all sorts of things that turn out to be wrong. Yes, he's being more politically correct, but he is not directly contradicting Trump. You choose to believe that's the case, but the English language is quite specific.
Now let's look at the 'defense officials who declined to be identified' said...
if there were indications anyone in the region pulled something off of this scale, it would trigger automatic increases in force protection for US troops and assets in the region -- if for no other reason than worry about retribution attacks.... That's only if it were caused by a foreign power. If it were internal, we might not do anything at all. The Lebanese are calling it an accident, so there is little reason to suspect there will be quick retaliation.
I mean, you're upset about Americans being detained without a polite explanation... We're talking about a government being directly culpable for the deaths of thousands.
The 'unidentified defense officials' are not even looking at the explosion.... their evidence is the 'reaction'.
Or maybe it's as simple as him reporting what 'people in the know' have reported to him and he's accepting it with clear reservations. No, it can't remotely be that. It has to somehow fit what you've been saying for 4 years now.
Other than a clear difference of opinion in a developing situation.... I don't see a meaningful difference between,...
"I've met with some of our great generals and they just seem to feel that it was not a -- some kind of manufacturing explosion type of event. This was a -- seems to be according to them, they would know better than I would, but they seem to think it was an attack. It was a bomb of some kind."
and
Esper said he's still getting information but "most believe that it was an accident as reported and beyond that, I have nothing further to report on that.
Both are presenting what they've been told by others... neither is presenting their own opinion. Neither is stating anything as fact.