Going back to about 1990, when Penn State announces its move into the Big Ten, which movement from another conference or from independence into P5 has fit the best into it's new league?

I would make the argument for Virginia Tech into the ACC. They fit perfectly geographically, culturally, competitively, and I would argue academically. A lot of ACC fans lament the ballooning of the ACC outside of its old line footprint and to an enormous size, but I never hear complaints about VT.

I would love to hear what others have to say about their choices.

I'll complain about Virginia Tech. They suck in men's basketball most years, especially after Seth Greenberg left. They're in the middle of nowhere and don't bring anything new to the table that UVa doesn't already bring.

Of course this is coming from a basketball fans' perspective. But the ACC is the #1 basketball conference in the country.

Virginia Tech to the ACC and TCU to the BXII by far. Those 2 should've been in those leagues long ago and felt like old friends reuniting for good after wasting too many years having lost touch.

Texas AM to the SEC, and it's not close. Easily the most valuable conference acquisition since Penn State to the B1G.

Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, TAMU, SC, Arkansas, TCU, and Nebraska all fit well in their new leagues.

I’m not a fan of the BC, Pitt, Cuse, and L’ville adds to the ACC.

Ditto for Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

WVU doesn’t fit in the Big 12.

Missouri belongs in the Big Ten.

I’m neutral on Colorado and Utah.

(08-05-2020 02:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, TAMU, SC, Arkansas, TCU, and Nebraska all fit well in their new leagues.

I’m not a fan of the BC, Pitt, Cuse, and L’ville adds to the ACC.

Ditto for Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

WVU doesn’t fit in the Big 12.

Missouri belongs in the Big Ten.

I’m neutral on Colorado and Utah.

I can make the argument that Arkansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado should have stayed in the Big 12. Especially the latter three, I think Arkansas fits the SEC profile but you wouldn't know as of late.

WVU belongs in the SEC. Utah belongs in the PAC 12.

(08-05-2020 02:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, TAMU, SC, Arkansas, TCU, and Nebraska all fit well in their new leagues.

I’m not a fan of the BC, Pitt, Cuse, and L’ville adds to the ACC.

Ditto for Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

WVU doesn’t fit in the Big 12.

Missouri belongs in the Big Ten.

I’m neutral on Colorado and Utah.

Athletically Louisville has been a good add for the ACC. They had one bad year in 2018, but they look like they have righted the ship. In addition to hoops, they are doing well in the Olympic sports as well.

I would argue Penn State to the Big Ten is the best.

I think Arkansas, A&M, SC, TCU, VT, Nebraska, Utah, and Colorado are all solid fits. No issues with any of those

Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, and Boston College all feel weird to me.

WVU, Rutgers, and Maryland seem like bad fits to me.

Really, I just think there's a place still for the Old Big East. A conference of Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Louisville, Rutgers, Boston College and then Cincinnati, UCF, and USF would be great IMO. That would be a great 10 team conference.

(08-05-2020 02:45 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I would argue Penn State to the Big Ten is the best.

Agreed. 30 years on it feels like Penn State should have been in from the beginning they fit so well.

Best fit is almost by definition an expansion within the conference footprint. As such VT is the best fit and a prodigal child.

TCU meets that defintion.

PSU could have gone either way to the ACC or B10
FSU could have gone either way the ACC or SEC

I'd rank them as 3-4 best fits.

TAMU, SC, Arkansas, Miami, Nebraska and Colorado are tied for fifth for good fit.

Then come the misfits.

Biggest misfits:

West Va in B12, MD in B10, Mizzou in SEC

Minor misfits - BC, Syracuse, and Louisville in ACC, Utah in P12

Just fits - Pitt, ND in ACC, Rutgers B10

This is the best I could do to make the best regional P5, everyone else goes down to FCS, you can keep the MAC if you want or not, does make for a nice 8 conference champ playoff. This include most of your historical FBS/I-A teams and the new start ups who have done well

SEC (16) Deep South Conference
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Southern Miss
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Memphis
Louisville
Kentucky
LSU
Tulane

Big 14 (Texas/Central Conference)
Houston
Rice
Texas A&M
Texas
Baylor
SMU
TCU
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoam State
Tulsa
Arkansas
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech


BIG TEN (16) Mid-West Conference
Nebraskas
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Iowa
Iowa State
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Cincinnati


ACC(12) (Mid-Atlantic Conference)
Maryland
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
ECU
NC State
North Carolina
Duke
Wake Forest
Appalachian State
Clemson
South Carolina


Big East (14) NE Conference
Pitt
Penn State
Navy*
Temple
Rutgers
Army*
Syracuse
Buffalo
UConn
Boston College
Notre Dame
UCF
USF
Miami

MWC (14) Rockies/ West / 4 Corner Conference
Colorado
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Utah State
BYU
Boise State
UNLV

PAC-12 (West Coast Conferece)
San Diego State
USC
UCLA
Fresno State
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Oregon Staet
Washington
Washington State
Hawaii
Nevada

MAC (12) MIDWEST Minor
Marshall
Ohio
Toledo
Bowling Green
Kent State
Akron
Miami (OH)
NIU
Ball State
EMU
CMU
WMU

32 Team Playoff
First Round (Weekend After Thanksiving) On-Campus
1vs4, 2vs3, top 4 conference teams play to play in the conference championship

Second Round (Conference Championship) Neutral Site
Conference Championship Games
MAC (Detroit)
Big Ten (Indianapolis)
ACC (Charlotte)
SEC (Atlanta)
BIG EAST (New York)
PAC-12 (San Francisco)
MWC (Phoenix or Las Vegas)
Big 14 (Dallas)

Third Round (Elite 8) Neutral Site
MAC vs. Big Ten (Orange Bowl)
PAC12 vs. MWC (Fiesta Bowl)
ACC vs. Big East (Peach Bowl)
SEC vs. Big 14 (Cotton Bowl)

Fourth Round (Final 4) Neutral Site New Years Day
Orange Winner vs. Fiesta Winner (Rose Bowl)
Peach Bowl Winner vs. Cotton Winner (Sugar Bowl)

Championship Game - Second Monday after NYD
Neutral Site (Rotation)

Keeps traditional games like Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl in place with similar teams.

(08-05-2020 03:19 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  This is the best I could do to make the best regional P5, everyone else goes down to FCS, you can keep the MAC if you want or not, does make for a nice 8 conference champ playoff. This include most of your historical FBS/I-A teams and the new start ups who have done well

SEC (16) Deep South Conference
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Southern Miss
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Memphis
Louisville
Kentucky
LSU
Tulane

Big 14 (Texas/Central Conference)
Houston
Rice
Texas A&M
Texas
Baylor
SMU
TCU
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoam State
Tulsa
Arkansas
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech


BIG TEN (16) Mid-West Conference
Nebraskas
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Iowa
Iowa State
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Cincinnati


ACC(12) (Mid-Atlantic Conference)
Maryland
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
ECU
NC State
North Carolina
Duke
Wake Forest
Appalachian State
Clemson
South Carolina


Big East (14) NE Conference
Pitt
Penn State
Navy*
Temple
Rutgers
Army*
Syracuse
Buffalo
UConn
Boston College
Notre Dame
UCF
USF
Miami

MWC (14) Rockies/ West / 4 Corner Conference
Colorado
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Utah State
BYU
Boise State
UNLV

PAC-12 (West Coast Conferece)
San Diego State
USC
UCLA
Fresno State
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Oregon Staet
Washington
Washington State
Hawaii
Nevada

MAC (12) MIDWEST Minor
Marshall
Ohio
Toledo
Bowling Green
Kent State
Akron
Miami (OH)
NIU
Ball State
EMU
CMU
WMU

32 Team Playoff
First Round (Weekend After Thanksiving) On-Campus
1vs4, 2vs3, top 4 conference teams play to play in the conference championship

Second Round (Conference Championship) Neutral Site
Conference Championship Games
MAC (Detroit)
Big Ten (Indianapolis)
ACC (Charlotte)
SEC (Atlanta)
BIG EAST (New York)
PAC-12 (San Francisco)
MWC (Phoenix or Las Vegas)
Big 14 (Dallas)

Third Round (Elite 8) Neutral Site
MAC vs. Big Ten (Orange Bowl)
PAC12 vs. MWC (Fiesta Bowl)
ACC vs. Big East (Peach Bowl)
SEC vs. Big 14 (Cotton Bowl)

Fourth Round (Final 4) Neutral Site New Years Day
Orange Winner vs. Fiesta Winner (Rose Bowl)
Peach Bowl Winner vs. Cotton Winner (Sugar Bowl)

Championship Game - Second Monday after NYD
Neutral Site (Rotation)

Keeps traditional games like Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl in place with similar teams.

lol what

(08-05-2020 02:37 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, TAMU, SC, Arkansas, TCU, and Nebraska all fit well in their new leagues.

I’m not a fan of the BC, Pitt, Cuse, and L’ville adds to the ACC.

Ditto for Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

WVU doesn’t fit in the Big 12.

Missouri belongs in the Big Ten.

I’m neutral on Colorado and Utah.

I can make the argument that Arkansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado should have stayed in the Big 12. Especially the latter three, I think Arkansas fits the SEC profile but you wouldn't know as of late.

WVU belongs in the SEC. Utah belongs in the PAC 12.

1. Arkansas joined the SEC from the SWC and was never a member of the Big 12.

2. West Virginia applied to the SEC twice. The first time they didn't even offer the required number and kinds of sports. The second time a prospectus on what would have to be done to be considered was sent to them. Obviously they didn't fit at the time.

3. Missouri blends well enough with the SEC and/or Big 10. But they don't perfectly fit either.

4. Agree with Quo: The best fits are Penn State in the Big 10 and Texas A&M in the SEC.

(08-05-2020 02:57 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:45 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I would argue Penn State to the Big Ten is the best.

Agreed. 30 years on it feels like Penn State should have been in from the beginning they fit so well.

Totally disagree. Thirty years on, and Penn State still feels like a 5th wheel in the B1G. They belong in an east coast conference, like the old Big East.

(08-05-2020 03:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:37 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, TAMU, SC, Arkansas, TCU, and Nebraska all fit well in their new leagues.

I’m not a fan of the BC, Pitt, Cuse, and L’ville adds to the ACC.

Ditto for Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

WVU doesn’t fit in the Big 12.

Missouri belongs in the Big Ten.

I’m neutral on Colorado and Utah.

I can make the argument that Arkansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado should have stayed in the Big 12. Especially the latter three, I think Arkansas fits the SEC profile but you wouldn't know as of late.

WVU belongs in the SEC. Utah belongs in the PAC 12.

1. Arkansas joined the SEC from the SWC and was never a member of the Big 12.

2. West Virginia applied to the SEC twice. The first time they didn't even offer the required number and kinds of sports. The second time a prospectus on what would have to be done to be considered was sent to them. Obviously they didn't fit at the time.

3. Missouri blends well enough with the SEC and/or Big 10. But they don't perfectly fit either.

4. Agree with Quo: The best fits are Penn State in the Big 10 and Texas A&M in the SEC.

Then Arkansas should have stayed in the SWC which would become the Big 12. I said WVU to the SEC because they kinda fit the mold of an SEC school in terms of:

1. State university.
2. In a college town that somewhat small.

But that's just my opinion. Nothing serious.

(08-05-2020 04:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:57 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:45 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I would argue Penn State to the Big Ten is the best.

Agreed. 30 years on it feels like Penn State should have been in from the beginning they fit so well.

Totally disagree. Thirty years on, and Penn State still feels like a 5th wheel in the B1G. They belong in an east coast conference, like the old Big East.

The Market Footprint Subscription pay model is the culprit here. Natural fits from within the footprint or from a fine school in a smaller state were rendered moot by that motivations for moves in 89-92 and again in 2011-2.

Reflectively, better moves might have been made for most of the conferences if geographical fit, and brand had been the bigger motivator than size of the state and avoiding duplication.

In that Regard A&M still works for the SEC and your feelings about Penn State are justified. But as far as bringing a viable program of substantial value A&M and Penn State are the best moves. But I would go back to 91-92 and say that Florida State was the most significant addition made by the ACC. Without F.S.U. how would the ACC have done? The F.S.U. addition was a big football value builder for the ACC and quite possibly helped them lure solid football brands from the Big East.

(08-05-2020 03:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:37 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, TAMU, SC, Arkansas, TCU, and Nebraska all fit well in their new leagues.

I’m not a fan of the BC, Pitt, Cuse, and L’ville adds to the ACC.

Ditto for Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

WVU doesn’t fit in the Big 12.

Missouri belongs in the Big Ten.

I’m neutral on Colorado and Utah.

I can make the argument that Arkansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado should have stayed in the Big 12. Especially the latter three, I think Arkansas fits the SEC profile but you wouldn't know as of late.

WVU belongs in the SEC. Utah belongs in the PAC 12.

1. Arkansas joined the SEC from the SWC and was never a member of the Big 12.

2. West Virginia applied to the SEC twice. The first time they didn't even offer the required number and kinds of sports. The second time a prospectus on what would have to be done to be considered was sent to them. Obviously they didn't fit at the time.

3. Missouri blends well enough with the SEC and/or Big 10. But they don't perfectly fit either.

4. Agree with Quo: The best fits are Penn State in the Big 10 and Texas A&M in the SEC.

I’m a bigger Missouri fan than most but I still think WVU to the SEC would’ve been my preference back in 2011 purely from an on the field standpoint. Lots of potential great rivalries there

(08-05-2020 01:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Virginia Tech to the ACC and TCU to the BXII by far. Those 2 should've been in those leagues long ago and felt like old friends reuniting for good after wasting too many years having lost touch.

^This

Northern Big East schools don't fit well in ACC. Missouri doesn't fit well in SEC. Arkansas isn't a great fit in SEC.

(08-05-2020 02:57 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  

(08-05-2020 02:45 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I would argue Penn State to the Big Ten is the best.

Agreed. 30 years on it feels like Penn State should have been in from the beginning they fit so well.

Meh. Still don't feel like they belong. Its a midwest conference. Nebraska is a better fit. Nebraska could fit in either Big 12 or Big 10.

I would say WVU is a more natural fit for the ACC. They have a ton of history with former Big East members and independents Pitt, Syracuse, VT, Miami, and BC. They would resume a pretty natural rivalry with Louisville. They are close to UVA, and they would love playing against the NC schools, Clemson, and FSU. They fit into the ACC geographically way better than they would the SEC. Some may say WVU academics aren't up to ACC snuff, but on the last school to be invited to the ACC was Louisville. And, what kind of history do they even have with SEC schools?

I've said this before, but not every school from a small town that's good at football has to be in the SEC. I've read many times that Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia should be in the SEC. If anything, maybe it is the other way around. Maybe schools like Florida and Vanderbilt, as academic strongholds, should be in the ACC. I'll throw in South Carolina and Georgia, too.