(06-08-2020 03:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

I think there is racism in this country that has yet to be eradicated.

I would agree. There are definitely a small set of ******* whites who 'just dont like mud people' (see Charlottesville).

And there are definitely a group of blacks who hate whites because they are white (see the fundraiser I went to three months ago and the raging polemic from one of the speakers about, and I quote, the 'white devil, and the the 'white scourge'.)

And I hate to tell you, there will always be some who believe that. No matter how double bad ungood you make it, or no matter how maoist one becomes in even noting it.

Bummer.

Difference is that I see it as a sporadic issue, that came from raging wildfire. You call it a 'systemic issue' and a 'systemic problem'. You know, those terms that you toss around like confetti but never bother to discuss.

Quote:Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a problem in the US but it isn't any more.

Perhaps you misunderstood, or perhaps you deliberately upgraded. Let me help you state it a little more accurately:

"Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a pervasive, heavy handed, and systemic problem in the US."

There, I have changed it to more accurately note the issue over your polemic. And I would agree that that statement is very true.

To continue you finish: "but it isn't any more." There we go. Now that that strawman **** is out of the way, maybe there is a discussion there.

Quote:I disagree with that sentiment.

Yes, your continued painting with the grandiose terms of 'systemic issue' and 'systemic problem' indicates that. It is underscored by the continuous manner in which you refuse to answer for your own words in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:I stand for the flag and the national anthem but I don't think less of those that take that moment to draw attention to their cause. I don't think kneeling "disrespects" our country. How many people in America were thinking about they way that the police treat black people before Kaepernick started kneeling?

I am glad that Kaep kneels for 9 people. Helluva guy. Maybe he should kneel as well for the other 19.

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

You said: “ anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.”

I provided you evidence, directly from the source (the person who advocated kneeling!) that you are undoubtedly wrong.

Take your lie, your factually incorrect statement, and admit you are wrong. Just because you disagree with the perspective doesn’t mean you should make **** up and gaslight people about the focus of the protest.

(06-08-2020 05:31 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 11:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the reconciliator-in-chief thinks this is just about the perfect time to re-open the NFL national anthem debate.

anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

You said: “ anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.”

I provided you evidence, directly from the source (the person who advocated kneeling!) that you are undoubtedly wrong.

Take your lie, your factually incorrect statement, and admit you are wrong. Just because you disagree with the perspective doesn’t mean you should make **** up and gaslight people about the focus of the protest.

Those who emulate kaepernick are in my opinion kneeling for the reasons he first sat, then knelt, which were not police brutality, as his initial interview in SF showed. He said this was an oppressive nation. I disagree. Not a word about police brutality.

Here is what he said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

So the kneeling has not been about police brutality - it had been about Kaepernick's perception of this country as oppressive. A perception I disagree with. Police brutality has become a vague bogeyman to excuse it. I hold to the original intent. I oppose police brutality - but I will not kneel in support of a false narrative.

But I also disagree that "police brutality" is a significant and systemic problem. So kneeling to protest it is like protesting the use of the Iron Maiden in interrogation.

when you say I make things up, you are lying. Seems odd to have lies told about me and then to be castigated on the basis on those lies by the liars. But it seems normal for liberal world.

My position has NOT been that there is no more racism in this country. That is a warped misstatement of my views. If intentionally misstated, it would be a lie. My stance is that (a) racism is much less a problem than it used to be, and (b) racism is not systemic within police departments coast to coast. So whichever of the Wonder Twins is warping my stances to fit their own narratives, stop it.

I compare the racism I saw in 1950's to the situations I see today. I saw segregation in full bloom. Those football players kneeling have never been turned away from a restaurant or a hotel, have never been refused entry to a restroom or waiting room. Things have changed, and I don't care how much you think they are the same, that are not.

In the 50's, it was the law of the land that discriminated. Now it is individuals only.

When i entered Rice, it was segregated. Things have changed.

Few blacks held high office then. things have changed. What was the first year we had a Black Congressional Caucus?

I have trouble struggling to my feet for the anthem, but I do it just to show I do not consider this to be an oppressive country. In the 1950's, the kneeling people would not have even been allowed in the stadium, unless to serve or clean. Things have changed.

(06-08-2020 06:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 05:31 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

You said: “ anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.”

I provided you evidence, directly from the source (the person who advocated kneeling!) that you are undoubtedly wrong.

Take your lie, your factually incorrect statement, and admit you are wrong. Just because you disagree with the perspective doesn’t mean you should make **** up and gaslight people about the focus of the protest.

Those who emulate kaepernick are in my opinion kneeling for the reasons he first sat, then knelt, which were not police brutality, as his initial interview in SF showed. He said this was an oppressive nation. I disagree. Not a word about police brutality.

Here is what he said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

So the kneeling has not been about police brutality - it had been about Kaepernick's perception of this country as oppressive. A perception I disagree with. Police brutality has become a vague bogeyman to excuse it. I hold to the original intent. I oppose police brutality - but I will not kneel in support of a false narrative.

But I also disagree that "police brutality" is a significant and systemic problem. So kneeling to protest it is like protesting the use of the Iron Maiden in interrogation.

when you say I make things up, you are lying. Seems odd to have lies told about me and then to be castigated on the basis on those lies by the liars. But it seems normal for liberal world.

My position has NOT been that there is no more racism in this country. That is a warped misstatement of my views. If intentionally misstated, it would be a lie. My stance is that (a) racism is much less a problem than it used to be, and (b) racism is not systemic within police departments coast to coast. So whichever of the Wonder Twins is warping my stances to fit their own narratives, stop it.

I compare the racism I saw in 1950's to the situations I see today. I saw segregation in full bloom. Those football players kneeling have never been turned away from a restaurant or a hotel, have never been refused entry to a restroom or waiting room. Things have changed, and I don't care how much you think they are the same, that are not.

In the 50's, it was the law of the land that discriminated. Now it is individuals only.

When i entered Rice, it was segregated. Things have changed.

Few blacks held high office then. things have changed. What was the first year we had a Black Congressional Caucus?

I have trouble struggling to my feet for the anthem, but I do it just to show I do not consider this to be an oppressive country. In the 1950's, the kneeling people would not have even been allowed in the stadium, unless to serve or clean. Things have changed.

Holy ****. I post a quote from the guy whole told Kaepernick to knee, and in the bolder part of that quote he talks about Kaepernick discussing police brutality.

You somehow have the cojones to then argue that Kaepernick didn’t originally mean for the protest to include police brutality. Gaslighting much? That’s ******* impressive

(06-08-2020 03:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.

From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:

Quote:You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

I think there is racism in this country that has yet to be eradicated.

I would agree. There are definitely a small set of ******* whites who 'just dont like mud people' (see Charlottesville).

And there are definitely a group of blacks who hate whites because they are white (see the fundraiser I went to three months ago and the raging polemic from one of the speakers about, and I quote, the 'white devil, and the the 'white scourge'.)

Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.

Quote:And I hate to tell you, there will always be some who believe that. No matter how double bad ungood you make it, or no matter how maoist one becomes in even noting it.

Bummer.

Difference is that I see it as a sporadic issue, that came from raging wildfire. You call it a 'systemic issue' and a 'systemic problem'. You know, those terms that you toss around like confetti but never bother to discuss.

You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.

Quote:

Quote:Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a problem in the US but it isn't any more.

Perhaps you misunderstood, or perhaps you deliberately upgraded. Let me help you state it a little more accurately:

"Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a pervasive, heavy handed, and systemic problem in the US."

There, I have changed it to more accurately note the issue over your polemic. And I would agree that that statement is very true.

To continue you finish: "but it isn't any more." There we go. Now that that strawman **** is out of the way, maybe there is a discussion there.

Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.

Quote:

Quote:I disagree with that sentiment.

Yes, your continued painting with the grandiose terms of 'systemic issue' and 'systemic problem' indicates that. It is underscored by the continuous manner in which you refuse to answer for your own words in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:I stand for the flag and the national anthem but I don't think less of those that take that moment to draw attention to their cause. I don't think kneeling "disrespects" our country. How many people in America were thinking about they way that the police treat black people before Kaepernick started kneeling?

I am glad that Kaep kneels for 9 people. Helluva guy. Maybe he should kneel as well for the other 19.

You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Regarding Kaepernick, educate yourself.

From the 2016 interview (transcript) that happened after he was sitting (and before he kneeled).

Quote: There’s a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality. There’s people being murdered unjustly and not being held accountable. People are being given paid leave for killing people. That’s not right. That’s not right by anyone’s standards.

I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they have fought for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right.

Didn’t mention police brutality my ass.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninerswire....nthem/amp/

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 05:31 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:


https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

You said: “ anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.”

I provided you evidence, directly from the source (the person who advocated kneeling!) that you are undoubtedly wrong.

Take your lie, your factually incorrect statement, and admit you are wrong. Just because you disagree with the perspective doesn’t mean you should make **** up and gaslight people about the focus of the protest.

Those who emulate kaepernick are in my opinion kneeling for the reasons he first sat, then knelt, which were not police brutality, as his initial interview in SF showed. He said this was an oppressive nation. I disagree. Not a word about police brutality.

Here is what he said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

So the kneeling has not been about police brutality - it had been about Kaepernick's perception of this country as oppressive. A perception I disagree with. Police brutality has become a vague bogeyman to excuse it. I hold to the original intent. I oppose police brutality - but I will not kneel in support of a false narrative.

But I also disagree that "police brutality" is a significant and systemic problem. So kneeling to protest it is like protesting the use of the Iron Maiden in interrogation.

when you say I make things up, you are lying. Seems odd to have lies told about me and then to be castigated on the basis on those lies by the liars. But it seems normal for liberal world.

My position has NOT been that there is no more racism in this country. That is a warped misstatement of my views. If intentionally misstated, it would be a lie. My stance is that (a) racism is much less a problem than it used to be, and (b) racism is not systemic within police departments coast to coast. So whichever of the Wonder Twins is warping my stances to fit their own narratives, stop it.

I compare the racism I saw in 1950's to the situations I see today. I saw segregation in full bloom. Those football players kneeling have never been turned away from a restaurant or a hotel, have never been refused entry to a restroom or waiting room. Things have changed, and I don't care how much you think they are the same, that are not.

In the 50's, it was the law of the land that discriminated. Now it is individuals only.

When i entered Rice, it was segregated. Things have changed.

Few blacks held high office then. things have changed. What was the first year we had a Black Congressional Caucus?

I have trouble struggling to my feet for the anthem, but I do it just to show I do not consider this to be an oppressive country. In the 1950's, the kneeling people would not have even been allowed in the stadium, unless to serve or clean. Things have changed.

Holy ****. I post a quote from the guy whole told Kaepernick to knee, and in the bolder part of that quote he talks about Kaepernick discussing police brutality.

You somehow have the cojones to then argue that Kaepernick didn’t originally mean for the protest to include police brutality. Gaslighting much? That’s ******* impressive

his position, as quoted, was that america was oppressive. He could just as well meant discrimination in housing, but not one kneel down protest has listed that. The conversation with the GB came later. Just because he made a compromise with a war hero does not change what he said after that first sit down.

Please don't use "cojones". The cultural appropriation is offensive. (or is this just a sly way to get a dig in at Hispanics in general and my heritage in particular?) Is this the way systemic racism works? As is the suggestion(lie?) I am gaslighting.

(06-08-2020 07:00 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 05:31 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

You said: “ anyone who thinks disrespecting the flag and anthem of the US is about police brutality is seriously self-deluded.”

I provided you evidence, directly from the source (the person who advocated kneeling!) that you are undoubtedly wrong.

Take your lie, your factually incorrect statement, and admit you are wrong. Just because you disagree with the perspective doesn’t mean you should make **** up and gaslight people about the focus of the protest.

Those who emulate kaepernick are in my opinion kneeling for the reasons he first sat, then knelt, which were not police brutality, as his initial interview in SF showed. He said this was an oppressive nation. I disagree. Not a word about police brutality.

Here is what he said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

So the kneeling has not been about police brutality - it had been about Kaepernick's perception of this country as oppressive. A perception I disagree with. Police brutality has become a vague bogeyman to excuse it. I hold to the original intent. I oppose police brutality - but I will not kneel in support of a false narrative.

But I also disagree that "police brutality" is a significant and systemic problem. So kneeling to protest it is like protesting the use of the Iron Maiden in interrogation.

when you say I make things up, you are lying. Seems odd to have lies told about me and then to be castigated on the basis on those lies by the liars. But it seems normal for liberal world.

My position has NOT been that there is no more racism in this country. That is a warped misstatement of my views. If intentionally misstated, it would be a lie. My stance is that (a) racism is much less a problem than it used to be, and (b) racism is not systemic within police departments coast to coast. So whichever of the Wonder Twins is warping my stances to fit their own narratives, stop it.

I compare the racism I saw in 1950's to the situations I see today. I saw segregation in full bloom. Those football players kneeling have never been turned away from a restaurant or a hotel, have never been refused entry to a restroom or waiting room. Things have changed, and I don't care how much you think they are the same, that are not.

In the 50's, it was the law of the land that discriminated. Now it is individuals only.

When i entered Rice, it was segregated. Things have changed.

Few blacks held high office then. things have changed. What was the first year we had a Black Congressional Caucus?

I have trouble struggling to my feet for the anthem, but I do it just to show I do not consider this to be an oppressive country. In the 1950's, the kneeling people would not have even been allowed in the stadium, unless to serve or clean. Things have changed.

Holy ****. I post a quote from the guy whole told Kaepernick to knee, and in the bolder part of that quote he talks about Kaepernick discussing police brutality.

You somehow have the cojones to then argue that Kaepernick didn’t originally mean for the protest to include police brutality. Gaslighting much? That’s ******* impressive

his position, as quoted, was that america was oppressive. He could just as well meant discrimination in housing, but not one kneel down protest has listed that. The conversation with the GB came later. Just because he made a compromise with a war hero does not change what he said after that first sit down.

Please don't use "cojones". The cultural appropriation is offensive. (or is this just a sly way to get a dig in at Hispanics in general and my heritage in particular?) As is the suggestion(lie?) I am gaslighting.

Yo, you’re gaslighting. Read the full transcript from Kaepernick where he specifically discusses police brutality.

Quote: Are you concerned that this can be seen as a blanket indictment of law enforcement in general?

CK: There is police brutality. People of color have been targeted by police. So that’s a large part of it and they’re government officials. They are put in place by the government. So that’s something that this country has to change. There’s things we can do to hold them more accountable. Make those standards higher. You have people that practice law and are lawyers and go to school for eight years, but you can become a cop in six months and don’t have to have the same amount of training as a cosmetologist. That’s insane. Someone that’s holding a curling iron has more education and more training than people that have a gun and are going out on the street to protect us.

These transcripts are from the day after he said the text you quoted, and this nugget:

Quote: To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.

Hm, I wonder what he was referencing in that quote? Could it be police brutality??

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 02:54 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  From the man who suggested Kaepernick kneel:


https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651...ake-a-knee

If you weren't aware, Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret.

I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

I think there is racism in this country that has yet to be eradicated.

I would agree. There are definitely a small set of ******* whites who 'just dont like mud people' (see Charlottesville).

And there are definitely a group of blacks who hate whites because they are white (see the fundraiser I went to three months ago and the raging polemic from one of the speakers about, and I quote, the 'white devil, and the the 'white scourge'.)

Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.

Quote:And I hate to tell you, there will always be some who believe that. No matter how double bad ungood you make it, or no matter how maoist one becomes in even noting it.

Bummer.

Difference is that I see it as a sporadic issue, that came from raging wildfire. You call it a 'systemic issue' and a 'systemic problem'. You know, those terms that you toss around like confetti but never bother to discuss.

You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.

Quote:

Quote:Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a problem in the US but it isn't any more.

Perhaps you misunderstood, or perhaps you deliberately upgraded. Let me help you state it a little more accurately:

"Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a pervasive, heavy handed, and systemic problem in the US."

There, I have changed it to more accurately note the issue over your polemic. And I would agree that that statement is very true.

To continue you finish: "but it isn't any more." There we go. Now that that strawman **** is out of the way, maybe there is a discussion there.

Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.

Quote:

Quote:I disagree with that sentiment.

Yes, your continued painting with the grandiose terms of 'systemic issue' and 'systemic problem' indicates that. It is underscored by the continuous manner in which you refuse to answer for your own words in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:I stand for the flag and the national anthem but I don't think less of those that take that moment to draw attention to their cause. I don't think kneeling "disrespects" our country. How many people in America were thinking about they way that the police treat black people before Kaepernick started kneeling?

I am glad that Kaep kneels for 9 people. Helluva guy. Maybe he should kneel as well for the other 19.

You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

To your edit: fine as an opinion piece. Doesnt go anywhere as to the issue of whether there is systemic racism in policing, nor is it objectively persuasive. Perhaps the fact it is on the opinion page is a clue.

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't think this is an oppressive country. Do you? I do not agree with this statement:
I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

when I stand I am protesting kaepernick.

Do you stand, kneel, sit, lie down, whatever during the anthem? And why?

I think there is racism in this country that has yet to be eradicated.

I would agree. There are definitely a small set of ******* whites who 'just dont like mud people' (see Charlottesville).

And there are definitely a group of blacks who hate whites because they are white (see the fundraiser I went to three months ago and the raging polemic from one of the speakers about, and I quote, the 'white devil, and the the 'white scourge'.)

Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.

Quote:And I hate to tell you, there will always be some who believe that. No matter how double bad ungood you make it, or no matter how maoist one becomes in even noting it.

Bummer.

Difference is that I see it as a sporadic issue, that came from raging wildfire. You call it a 'systemic issue' and a 'systemic problem'. You know, those terms that you toss around like confetti but never bother to discuss.

You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.

Quote:

Quote:Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a problem in the US but it isn't any more.

Perhaps you misunderstood, or perhaps you deliberately upgraded. Let me help you state it a little more accurately:

"Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a pervasive, heavy handed, and systemic problem in the US."

There, I have changed it to more accurately note the issue over your polemic. And I would agree that that statement is very true.

To continue you finish: "but it isn't any more." There we go. Now that that strawman **** is out of the way, maybe there is a discussion there.

Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.

Quote:

Quote:I disagree with that sentiment.

Yes, your continued painting with the grandiose terms of 'systemic issue' and 'systemic problem' indicates that. It is underscored by the continuous manner in which you refuse to answer for your own words in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:I stand for the flag and the national anthem but I don't think less of those that take that moment to draw attention to their cause. I don't think kneeling "disrespects" our country. How many people in America were thinking about they way that the police treat black people before Kaepernick started kneeling?

I am glad that Kaep kneels for 9 people. Helluva guy. Maybe he should kneel as well for the other 19.

You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

*edit* Maybe this will help. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/20...o-the-edge

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I think there is racism in this country that has yet to be eradicated.

I would agree. There are definitely a small set of ******* whites who 'just dont like mud people' (see Charlottesville).

And there are definitely a group of blacks who hate whites because they are white (see the fundraiser I went to three months ago and the raging polemic from one of the speakers about, and I quote, the 'white devil, and the the 'white scourge'.)

Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.

Quote:And I hate to tell you, there will always be some who believe that. No matter how double bad ungood you make it, or no matter how maoist one becomes in even noting it.

Bummer.

Difference is that I see it as a sporadic issue, that came from raging wildfire. You call it a 'systemic issue' and a 'systemic problem'. You know, those terms that you toss around like confetti but never bother to discuss.

You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.

Quote:

Quote:Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a problem in the US but it isn't any more.

Perhaps you misunderstood, or perhaps you deliberately upgraded. Let me help you state it a little more accurately:

"Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a pervasive, heavy handed, and systemic problem in the US."

There, I have changed it to more accurately note the issue over your polemic. And I would agree that that statement is very true.

To continue you finish: "but it isn't any more." There we go. Now that that strawman **** is out of the way, maybe there is a discussion there.

Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.

Quote:

Quote:I disagree with that sentiment.

Yes, your continued painting with the grandiose terms of 'systemic issue' and 'systemic problem' indicates that. It is underscored by the continuous manner in which you refuse to answer for your own words in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:I stand for the flag and the national anthem but I don't think less of those that take that moment to draw attention to their cause. I don't think kneeling "disrespects" our country. How many people in America were thinking about they way that the police treat black people before Kaepernick started kneeling?

I am glad that Kaep kneels for 9 people. Helluva guy. Maybe he should kneel as well for the other 19.

You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 03:35 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I would agree. There are definitely a small set of ******* whites who 'just dont like mud people' (see Charlottesville).

And there are definitely a group of blacks who hate whites because they are white (see the fundraiser I went to three months ago and the raging polemic from one of the speakers about, and I quote, the 'white devil, and the the 'white scourge'.)

Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.

Quote:And I hate to tell you, there will always be some who believe that. No matter how double bad ungood you make it, or no matter how maoist one becomes in even noting it.

Bummer.

Difference is that I see it as a sporadic issue, that came from raging wildfire. You call it a 'systemic issue' and a 'systemic problem'. You know, those terms that you toss around like confetti but never bother to discuss.

You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.

Quote:Perhaps you misunderstood, or perhaps you deliberately upgraded. Let me help you state it a little more accurately:

"Some on your side have said in this forum that racism used to be a pervasive, heavy handed, and systemic problem in the US."

There, I have changed it to more accurately note the issue over your polemic. And I would agree that that statement is very true.

To continue you finish: "but it isn't any more." There we go. Now that that strawman **** is out of the way, maybe there is a discussion there.

Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.

Quote:Yes, your continued painting with the grandiose terms of 'systemic issue' and 'systemic problem' indicates that. It is underscored by the continuous manner in which you refuse to answer for your own words in any way, shape, or form.


I am glad that Kaep kneels for 9 people. Helluva guy. Maybe he should kneel as well for the other 19.

You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.


You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.


Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.


You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So, an opinion based on stereotype, as opposed to one based on statistics?

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Do you think that, in general, some black people's racist attitudes towards white people are as significant as some white people's racist attitudes towards black people? Do you think those attitudes have historically caused an equal amount of damage in either direction?

I'm not sure why, in a discussion of racism towards black people in America, do you bring up the fact that some black people are racist towards white people? This barely seems relevant.


You think racism in America is not that big a deal these days. I disagree. Lots of people agree with me. I imagine plenty of people agree with you.


Arrrghh! Don't make me pull up that quote. Was it Owl#'s? Maybe OldOwl? I don't want to take the time to find it but I think I quoted it accurately. It wasn't you. I don't think you need to clarify it for the author. They were very clear.


You should go back and read his statements. Maybe read Kareem Abdul Jabbar's opinion piece in the LA Times. This protest is not solely about the police killing black people.

Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So if there is a disparity in 'being busted for a doob' offense, that is all the justification *you* need to call something a 'systemic problem'? Seriously?

Look I would grant you your 'magic words' if all else was equal in terms of serious crime. But...... that isnt the case. Not by a long shot.

If thousands unarmed blacks were killed to say, 200 or so whites, yeah, that major effect I would say your white wash words of 'systemic injustice' might ring true.

But at the end of the day, when:

1) the killings are abandoned by you as a source (which they should be, goo job there), and

2) when violent crime interactions are abandoned by you as a cause (again, they should be, the numbers of offenses by blacks in those areas *dwarfs* pretty much any other violent crime ehtnic wannabe),

now you point to the *horrendous* inequity of things like doob arrests as the sole crux and now the *only* source of the platitude of 'systemic injustice' that you toss around.

Awesome.

I really wish there was a head slap emoji....

(06-08-2020 08:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So, an opinion based on stereotype, as opposed to one based on statistics?

"Police brutality" is notoriously hard to represent with good data. People dying at the hands of cops is much more reliable from a data standpoint but it doesn't provide the full picture of the problem.

(06-08-2020 08:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Then what the hell is the 'systemic issue' that you bandy about like a sparkler at a Fourth of July carnival?

Note very specifically how the life of a black in the United States is so amazingly horrendous, and chock full of systemic racism?

And, as to your last sentence, it sure as fk better not be about 'police killing black people.' The objective numbers dont support that rather crappy canard, do they?

I do find it interesting that you never bothered to comment on the issue of 9 deaths as being a vacuous part and parcel of this 'thing of ours' playing out in the street. Are you saying that that amazing number *is* a significant basis for the protests?

Or is 9 deaths so horrendous that it should be demonstrated on?

Hate to tell you, 9 deaths is an objective number. Perhaps you should actually deal with it cogently at some point.

I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So if there is a disparity in 'being busted for a doob' offense, that is all the justification *you* need to call something a 'systemic problem'? Seriously?

Look I would grant you your 'magic words' if all else was equal in terms of serious crime. But...... that isnt the case. Not by a long shot.

If thousands unarmed blacks were killed to say, 200 or so whites, yeah, that major effect I would say your white wash words of 'systemic injustice' might ring true.

But at the end of the day, when:

1) the killings are abandoned by you as a source (which they should be, goo job there), and

2) when violent crime interactions are abandoned by you as a cause (again, they should be, the numbers of offenses by blacks in those areas *dwarfs* pretty much any other violent crime ehtnic wannabe),

now you point to the *horrendous* inequity of things like doob arrests as the sole crux and now the *only* source of the platitude of 'systemic injustice' that you toss around.

Awesome.

I really wish there was a head slap emoji....

I was using doob arrests as a general example of the way black people may be treated differently than white people when it comes to the police. Sorry if you thought that it was the only issue that I feel is important. I certainly didn't mean to imply that.

I never brought up violent crime interactions so I wasn't ever in a position to "abandon" it.

If you find that head slap emoji, please let me know how to use it. There was a post recently where somebody whattabouted black people who are racist against whites during a discussion of racism in America.

(06-08-2020 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 08:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I believe that black people are policed differently than white people to the detriment of black people. This is based on studies that I have read and conversations that I have had. IMO, the actual number of black people killed by police annually doesn't tell the whole picture of the problem.

So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So, an opinion based on stereotype, as opposed to one based on statistics?

"Police brutality" is notoriously hard to represent with good data. People dying at the hands of cops is much more reliable from a data standpoint but it doesn't provide the full picture of the problem.

Since it is difficult to represent with good data, that makes it the perfect catch all.

Statistically, we are probably lookinf at a couple of incidents a month out of millions of police/citizen interactions daily. Somewhere along the lone of 0.0000000001%, give ior take a few zeros.
What is the definitiion of systemic again?

As for the white kid with a doob vs. the black kid with a doob, are all other things equal? How do you know? The whole thing is just supposition based on urban legends. I think if anything, unequal treatment is based more on economics. But who needs facts when you have a point to make.

I raised three white sons. Never caught a break as far as I know.

(06-08-2020 08:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 08:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So the 'killing our children by the bucketload' is simply a grotesque, and massive misstatement?

Yes black people are 'policed differently'. By definition. They commit 60% of the violent crime in the nation. 45% of the murders. No doubt that they are convicted of these crimes in far greater numbers than any group.

Should there be a strict racial quota on such convictions? I mean you have now retreated to 'difference in policing'. The amazingly out of control crime rate amongst balck communities is absolutely shocking.

Do we police violent crime and murder differently? Do we step up patrols in River Oaks to show 'equal policing'?

Seriously, to huge extent the conviction rate in black society is a massive problem. Seemingly at some level a self-inflicted one. But yet everyone else is to blame for this?

By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So, an opinion based on stereotype, as opposed to one based on statistics?

"Police brutality" is notoriously hard to represent with good data. People dying at the hands of cops is much more reliable from a data standpoint but it doesn't provide the full picture of the problem.

Since it is difficult to represent with good data, that makes it the perfect catch all.

Statistically, we are probably lookinf at a couple of incidents a month out of millions of police/citizen interactions daily. Somewhere along the lone of 0.0000000001%, give ior take a few zeros.
What is the definitiion of systemic again?

As for the white kid with a doob vs. the black kid with a doob, are all other things equal? How do you know? The whole thing is just supposition based on urban legends. I think if anything, unequal treatment is based more on economics. But who needs facts when you have a point to make.

I raised three white sons. Never caught a break as far as I know.

Did something like this ever happen to them?

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/vide...te-parents

(06-08-2020 08:28 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  If you find that head slap emoji, please let me know how to use it. There was a post recently where somebody whattabouted black people who are racist against whites during a discussion of racism in America.

Yeah, too bad you didnt bring up the poindexter who claimed that everyone on the conservative side says 'there is *no* racism.'

And no, it wasnt a whatabout, it is a simple statement that the ideal of, ever, 'no racism' (as in the complete lack thereof) is a pipe dream.

It will exist in some form and fashion, somewhere. And it is a belief that isnt totally isolated to one race.

That poindexter had to be a real clod not to understand that truism.

(06-08-2020 08:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 08:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 08:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 07:41 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  By policing differently, I'm more referring to the white kid who gets caught smoking a doob in his car gets told to go home whereas the black kid in the same situation gets arrested. Maybe gets pulled out his car and thrown to the ground to top it off.

So, an opinion based on stereotype, as opposed to one based on statistics?

"Police brutality" is notoriously hard to represent with good data. People dying at the hands of cops is much more reliable from a data standpoint but it doesn't provide the full picture of the problem.

Since it is difficult to represent with good data, that makes it the perfect catch all.

Statistically, we are probably lookinf at a couple of incidents a month out of millions of police/citizen interactions daily. Somewhere along the lone of 0.0000000001%, give ior take a few zeros.
What is the definitiion of systemic again?

As for the white kid with a doob vs. the black kid with a doob, are all other things equal? How do you know? The whole thing is just supposition based on urban legends. I think if anything, unequal treatment is based more on economics. But who needs facts when you have a point to make.

I raised three white sons. Never caught a break as far as I know.

Did something like this ever happen to them?

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/vide...te-parents

Kareem Abdul Jabbar and now a cartoon. Your 'proof by vignette' odyssey has a roaring start there, 93.