In its short existence, the G5 conferences have turned out a lot better, in some respects, than many college sports fans expected it to.

In many ways, they have thrived financially, particularly the AAC and the MWC, which have signed broadcasting agreements which will generate a great deal more income than they have ever received in the past, with the exception of Cincinnati and USF.

To some extent, the G5 may have become more interesting to follow, now that they have a shared identity or role as the challengers to the P5.

The more that the G5 teams are contrasted with the P5 teams, the more a lot of people have started to realize that they aren't as much less talented or less interesting to watch then a lot of people might have thought they were.

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To some extent, there may be a certain kind of psychology at work, which might redound to the benefit of the G5, more and more, with each passing season.

For one thing, a lot of folks like to root for the underdog, and the G5 are often considered the underdogs.

For another thing, there are probably as many alumni and students at G5 schools as there are at P5 schools, and so the potential audience for G5 football may not be as much smaller than the potential audience for P5 football, which may have already attained its peak potential.

In addition, a lot of FCS and DII/DIII/NAIA CFB fans may find themselves rooting for the G5 teams when they play the P5 teams.

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The basic phenomenon might turn out to be similar to the way that the American Football League gradually took more and more of the audience share from the NFL, until finally, it became clear that the AFL had attained parity.

The same type of phenomenon happened when the American Basketball League went through its rapid growth spurt until it began to attain parity with the NBA.

In both cases, the up-and-coming conference approached parity with the established conference.

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It's possible that, although these things have tended to take 8-10 years to unfold, the same phenomenon may apply with the G5 vs. P5.

Would you say:

more than 50% better?

50% better?

≥25% better?

only slightly better?

no change?

slightly worse?

≥25% worse?

50% worse?

more than 50% worse?

(06-03-2020 04:37 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  In its short existence, the G5 conferences have turned out a lot better than many college sports expected it to.

"Thrived financially"?

G5 schools break records every year for their athletic operating deficits, which have soared in recent years, and soak their students and the "academic side" for transfers that exceed the entire budget of many P5 schools just a generation ago (e.g., in 1996, Baylor's entire athletic budget was $8 million, or $13 million in today's dollars, EMU's subsidy last year was $27 million).

Beyond that, I fail to see how the G5 conferences in-toto are any better off in terms of results on the field or brand-recognition wise than they were before 2014.

The very best G5 teams get no shot at the playoff. So their performance doesn’t matter, and that was exactly what was expected by the P5.

(06-03-2020 06:17 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-03-2020 04:37 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  In its short existence, the G5 conferences have turned out a lot better than many college sports expected it to.

"Thrived financially"?

G5 schools break records every year for their athletic operating deficits, which have soared in recent years, and soak their students and the "academic side" for transfers that exceed the entire budget of many P5 schools just a generation ago (e.g., in 1996, Baylor's entire athletic budget was $8 million, or $13 million in today's dollars, EMU's subsidy last year was $27 million).

Beyond that, I fail to see how the G5 conferences in-toto are any better off in terms of results on the field or brand-recognition wise than they were before 2014.

That's a very legitimate point, and I'm glad you brought it up. I don't know anything about the financials of the MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt. I do know that the AAC is a lot better off, and the MWC may be when their new deal kicks in.

There seems to be something very "whack" about the budget numbers. I'm guessing that, with the total lack of transparency, there may be a great deal of corruption inside of some or all of these athletic departments.

But, while I may be wrong about the financials, I still have the gut feeling that the G5 may turn out to be the next "AFL" or the next "ABA."

It would be a great irony if, by separating themselves from the G5, the P5 end up sabotaging themselves and helping the G5 compete with them more effectively than they've ever done before.

(06-03-2020 06:40 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  But, while I may be wrong about the financials, I still have the gut feeling that the G5 may turn out to be the next "AFL" or the next "ABA."

It would be a great irony if, by separating themselves from the G5, the P5 end up sabotaging themselves and helping the G5 compete with them more effectively than they've ever done before.

If the G5 did evolve into an AFL that could then merge with the P5 at an equal level (the ABA largely folded with only a few teams joining the NBA), that would indeed be a massive irony and of great satisfaction to all of us in the G5.

I just don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of happening. But we shall see.

The conventional wisdom is that the P5 will divorce itself from the NCAA and rearrange the deckchairs to form a P4. Athletes, of course, will openly receive cash compensation in some manner or another. Then, those of us who follow college sports will be expected to switch allegiances from our inferior alma maters or hometown teams and become Alabama or Oklahoma or Clemson or Michigan fans.

Fat chance.

The G5 has lost ground, and will continue to do so. At the same time, the CFP has also caused many schools in the P5 to lose ground as well. Not necessarily financially, but in terms of on field prospects in football. The few very top programs will continue to attract the best recruits because they want to play for a national championship. They can't expect to do that at places like Purdue, North Carolina and Arizona.

Having theoretical access to the CFP hasn't helped to spread the talent around among P5 schools and even the playing field. It has consolidated the talent at the top. That's only going to get worse.

CFP era has been 1 step forward and 2 steps back for the G5.

It was certainly a step up in money from the previous arrangement and a guaranteed NYD bowl game for the group was a nice improvement.

However the CFP pollsters have been totally biased toward a P5 schedule even if the AAC plays a better one in some years. More bias than even the old polling system.

The money disparity has intensified and forced AAC teams to push salaries to 3 or 4 million to project major conference status. Its become an unsustainable situation for them.

There needs to be a salary cap in NCAA athletics. No coach should be paid above 5 million. That is more than plenty for anyone. I suspect many of the highest paid football and basketball coaches will ultimately retire out in the next few years just because of the perception issue they make too much.

(06-03-2020 11:24 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CFP era has been 1 step forward and 2 steps back for the G5.

It was certainly a step up in money from the previous arrangement and a guaranteed NYD bowl game for the group was a nice improvement.

However the CFP pollsters have been totally biased toward a P5 schedule even if the AAC plays a better one in some years. More bias than even the old polling system.

The money disparity has intensified and forced AAC teams to push salaries to 3 or 4 million to project major conference status. Its become an unsustainable situation for them.

There needs to be a salary cap in NCAA athletics. No coach should be paid above 5 million. That is more than plenty for anyone. I suspect many of the highest paid football and basketball coaches will ultimately retire out in the next few years just because of the perception issue they make too much.

It isn't the A5/G5 difference. Its the massive money surge that the A5 have gotten. In 2009 there was very little difference in media money between the bottom of the Big East or Pac 12 vs. the MWC or CUSA. Differences of a million or less. Now the Washington St.'s make $20 million in media money while the MWC and AAC are $3 to $5 million (AAC working its way up to $7, but Pac 12 will increase in about 3 years as well with their new contract).

(06-03-2020 07:26 AM)colohank Wrote:  The conventional wisdom is that the P5 will divorce itself from the NCAA and rearrange the deckchairs to form a P4. Athletes, of course, will openly receive cash compensation in some manner or another. Then, those of us who follow college sports will be expected to switch allegiances from our inferior alma maters or hometown teams and become Alabama or Oklahoma or Clemson or Michigan fans.

Fat chance.

Exactly!

Overall, while the financial situation may have gotten tougher for some of the G5 conferences, a case can still be made that the AAC and MWC have been improving in several respects and that there have also been some improvements in the other 3 G5 conferences.

Operating deficits are certainly getting worse. App State is a prime example, as they have tried to remedy by sadly cutting three sports. But the Sun Belt has clearly improved on the field. Six or eight years ago, the SB was clearly the worst FBS conference and was the subject of ridicule across FBD football. Or perhaps even worse, it was plain unknown. But in recent years, it has finished third among G5 leagues in CFP disbursements due to performance. In 2018, it had three 10-win teams for the first time. In 2019 I had its first finisher in the Top 25 and had two 11-win teams for the first time. On the field, the Sun Belt is better than it has ever been. Still a long way to go, but trending up.

(06-04-2020 12:33 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Operating deficits are certainly getting worse. App State is a prime example, as they have tried to remedy by sadly cutting three sports. But the Sun Belt has clearly improved on the field. Six or eight years ago, the SB was clearly the worst FBS conference and was the subject of ridicule across FBD football. Or perhaps even worse, it was plain unknown. But in recent years, it has finished third among G5 leagues in CFP disbursements due to performance. In 2018, it had three 10-win teams for the first time. In 2019 I had its first finisher in the Top 25 and had two 11-win teams for the first time. On the field, the Sun Belt is better than it has ever been. Still a long way to go, but trending up.

Glad to hear this good news about the Sun Belt.

The G5 has vastly improved solely because it added App State.

(06-04-2020 01:14 AM)ah59396 Wrote:  The G5 has vastly improved solely because it added App State.

I hope you guys go over to the AAC message board and make your case for admission to the AAC.

There are some meanies over there who are pummeling the brave AAC fans who dare to argue for admission to replace UConn FB.

I've been persuaded, now that the MWC schools have signed their long term broadcasting agreement.

The MAC's pretty much same-same. Only a little bit different.

(06-04-2020 03:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The MAC's pretty much same-same. Only a little bit different.

Ok, we now have reports from 3 of the G5 conferences, indicating that that the G5 conferences have either remained basically the same or have improved.

We haven't have any reports from the C-USA or MWC on this thread yet, but we do know that the MWC just signed a broadcasting deal with CBS and Fox that will at least triple or quadruple the amount they're going to be paid going forward.

Things have gotten much worse financially for the G5 since the split and the CFP has been effectively designed to ensure no G5 team will ever play for an FBS title.

Having said that, the split has not prevented many G5 schools from holding their own against P5 schools on the playing field, as shown by last season's MWC record against the P5.

(06-04-2020 05:27 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Things have gotten much worse financially for the G5 since the split and the CFP has been effectively designed to ensure no G5 team will ever play for an FBS title.

Having said that, the split has not prevented many G5 schools from holding their own against P5 schools on the playing field, as shown by last season's MWC record against the P5.

In other words, the G5 were screwed over royally, but they haven't given up, and have been acquitting themselves surprisingly well.

It's been great to see the MWC's success against P5 on the field.