https://www.city-journal.org/glory-and-risk-of-cities
Joel Kotkin on cities and health:


"The glory of cities is to serve as places of interaction between people and economies. Yet throughout history—from Roman times to the present—this advantage has also entailed exposure to deadly contagions. As Marc Riedl, a specialist in respiratory disease at UCLA, puts it: “Megacity life is an unprecedented insult to the immune system.” Today’s coronavirus pandemic reflects these patterns, concentrating, at least initially, in densely populated regions, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and around Milan. In the United States, the vast majority of cases to date are occurring in the densest, most globalized regions, such as Seattle, San Francisco, and, in particular, greater New York. Cases have been far less prevalent, so far, in the vast middle of the country—except for New Orleans and Detroit—and in rural areas, where people have less daily contact...."

I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.

Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.

I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

(05-10-2020 03:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.
Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.
I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

I grew up in West Alabama, but came to Houston for university and stayed to work, except 4 years in the Navy. My work (merger and acquisition consulting, primarily in the oil patch) took me all over the USA and the world. I got to where I felt as much at home in London or Paris or Sydney or Dubai as I did in Houston.

In 2003 I moved out of Houston to a resort area on Lake Conroe in Montgomery County, about an hour north. I can still go to Houston any time I want to go to a ball game or concert or play or dinner with friends, and be home at a decent hour. I'm 45 minutes with light traffic, an hour with heavy, from Bush Intercontinental, and from there it's a nonstop flight almost anywhere in the world. I've got great golf (between two courses, can actually see both out my back window, one of them ranked #1 in Houston area), the lake, and a number of good dining alternatives, and Jimmy Buffett is putting in a Margaritaville that I can see across the lake from my house. And if I want upscale shopping, The Woodlands Mall is about 30-35 minutes, and it has every store imaginable. I'm told this is the exurbs, and it suits me just fine. I just hope that the growth here doesn't turn it into another Houston or Atlanta.

I'm a little more urban than you. Montgomery has an official population of 621, but it also has a 1500-student high school that draws from the resort communities around the lake. But I still have deer in my yard, and within 4 minutes I can be driving through cow pastures.

I can't imagine moving back to any city. My brother was in Birmingham but has a place at Still Waters, on Lake Martin, and since he retired he has pretty much moved down there. So we are both on lakes, and both loving it.

(05-10-2020 03:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 03:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.
Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.
I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

I grew up in West Alabama, but came to Houston for university and stayed to work, except 4 years in the Navy. My work (merger and acquisition consulting, primarily in the oil patch) took me all over the USA and the world. I got to where I felt as much at home in London or Paris or Sydney or Dubai as I did in Houston.

In 2003 I moved out of Houston to a resort area on Lake Conroe in Montgomery County, about an hour north. I can still go to Houston any time I want to go to a ball game or concert or play or dinner with friends, and be home at a decent hour. I'm 45 minutes with light traffic, an hour with heavy, from Bush Intercontinental, and from there it's a nonstop flight almost anywhere in the world. I've got great golf (between two courses), the lake, and a number of good dining alternatives, and Jimmy Buffett is putting in a Margaritaville that I can see across the lake from my house. And if I want upscale shopping, The Woodlands Mall is about 30-35 minutes, and it has every store imaginable. I'm told this is the exurbs, and it suits me just fine. I just hope that the growth here doesn't turn it into another Houston or Atlanta.

I'm a little more urban than you. Montgomery has an official population of 621, but it also has a 1500-student high school that draws from the resort communities around the lake. But I still have deer in my yard, and within 4 minutes I can be driving through cow pastures.

I can't imagine moving back to any city. My brother was in Birmingham but has a place at Still Waters, on Lake Martin, and since he retired he has pretty much moved down there. So we are both on lakes, and both loving it.

About 18 months ago, we moved slightly closer to civilization, under my protest, to a small town, pop. 5400. I wanted to move farther out, but this is 6 miles from Phenix City, AL (pop. 36K), which is across the river from Columbus, GA (pop. 200K).

Too close for me, but still much better than all those giant cities (and still 2 hours from Atlanta).

The excitement here is we just opened a Loves Travel Stop with a Chester's Chicken, a Godfather Pizza and a dog park, lol.

I left out an important point, related to health. The sky is much bluer here than in Atlanta.

My goal is to live on the outskirts of a town of 10,000 people or less. Lakeland, TN is growing too fast and when they finish this mixed use development, it’ll only be worse. We are in the process of getting our house ready to sell. The good news is that houses in our subdivision are going for about 1.5 times what they were when we bought 10 years ago.

(05-10-2020 03:58 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I left out an important point, related to health. The sky is much bluer here than in Atlanta.

Same here, plus I get to see stars at night. Between my brother's place at StillWaters and my place here, we both ended up on lakes. His lake is probably a bit nicer than mine, but mine is close to a lot of things that I enjoy.

I live about 40 miles from downtown Cincinnati and about 4 miles outside of town (20,000ish). That makes me 5 minutes to the grocery store/food places. About 40 minutes to a Reds game. Corn fields and woods are literally across the road and see wildlife pretty regularly. Kind of a bit of the best of both worlds. Stars at night, but not too far from civilization........btw, the town of 20k is the largest “city” I’ve ever lived in for any length of time!!

(05-10-2020 03:58 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I left out an important point, related to health. The sky is much bluer here than in Atlanta.

Its pretty hazy here. But then I live well ITP (inside the perimeter) and I've seen coyotes and 3 inch diameter king snakes (along with a few rattlers) in my back yard. We've had a bit of a coyote problem in the neighborhood. I've seen deer on the Emory University campus, also well ITP. Of course when I was in Houston I saw a guy walking his tiger once. A full sized 6 footer. I was out running and came back a different route. Later heard he had to move it out of the city. Heard my neighborhood in Atlanta once had a lion running loose. But that was in the 20s. After that the neighbors convinced the Coke owner he needed to move his personal zoo somewhere else so he founded the Atlanta zoo.

(05-10-2020 05:55 PM)Crebman Wrote:  I live about 40 miles from downtown Cincinnati and about 4 miles outside of town (20,000ish). That makes me 5 minutes to the grocery store/food places. About 40 minutes to a Reds game. Corn fields and woods are literally across the road and see wildlife pretty regularly. Kind of a bit of the best of both worlds. Stars at night, but not too far from civilization........btw, the town of 20k is the largest “city” I’ve ever lived in for any length of time!!

You could live 2 miles outside of downtown Cincinnati on the Kentucky side and it would still take you 40 minutes to get to the Reds game!

(05-10-2020 08:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Of course when I was in Houston I saw a guy walking his tiger once. A full sized 6 footer.

The guy walking the tiger probably used to be a client of mine. He had two--a male named Rambo and female named Rainbow.

(05-10-2020 08:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 05:55 PM)Crebman Wrote:  I live about 40 miles from downtown Cincinnati and about 4 miles outside of town (20,000ish). That makes me 5 minutes to the grocery store/food places. About 40 minutes to a Reds game. Corn fields and woods are literally across the road and see wildlife pretty regularly. Kind of a bit of the best of both worlds. Stars at night, but not too far from civilization........btw, the town of 20k is the largest “city” I’ve ever lived in for any length of time!!

You could live 2 miles outside of downtown Cincinnati on the Kentucky side and it would still take you 40 minutes to get to the Reds game!

Haha! Yep. Limited bridges. There are times walking the 2 miles from Ky across the bridges is faster than driving....

man we moved out of the heart of Memphis to the edge of the Shelby/Fayette line a couple years ago. Still suburb-y, but man I like life out here spread out.

(05-10-2020 03:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.

Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.

I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

I moved to Auburn about a decade and a half ago. It was I had remembered it with a few more students. Downtown was timeless and the barber shop was right where I left it years ago.

Then some damned national magazine listed Auburn as one of the top places to retire in the country. The game day house business cranked up stronger than it had been. Jerks started buying houses to turn them into B&B's, My property assessments went up and up. The down town I knew and loved has been obliterated by outside developers and there are more damned Yankees living around me than ever before.

Now there were plenty of lovely people from Pennsylvania and Ohio here before, but they taught here and retired here and had fish fries and knew how to be good neighbors. The ones that have moved down here to retire want act like they are still in a city, are crappy neighbors moving into stable neighborhoods and immediately cutting down all of the trees in the yards and razing the older homes with charm and putting up the same damned ugly schematic homes you find in every damned city in the country. If they don't like a tree they have even been known to cut one down that was on your side of the property line.

So yeah, the last thing we need Triple A is somebody drawing attention to how nice we have it. And the amazing thing to me is first thing the newbies do after ruining a neighborhood is to quip how the new people are ruining the neighborhood. We kept our old home's charm because it fit the neighborhood and we cut down diseased trees, but replanted to keep the canopy that helps with cooling the home. But the next time one of these city dwelling, ***** about everything, loud mouths move in I may get my first arrest ever because I just don't know if I can put up with another one after the one who moved in behind our property.

For those who don't know we live on one of the prettiest residential streets near the campus. Like the buildings on campus the neighborhood had a look and a feel. And mostly older residents and retirees lived here until the development started, homes were bought and those purchasing them tore them down to put up what they hoped would be their B&B before the zoning changed. And our lots are larger than a football field, and wooded. So when one of these jerks cuts down all the trees it gaps the neighborhood.

(05-11-2020 12:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 03:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.

Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.

I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

I moved to Auburn about a decade and a half ago. It was I had remembered it with a few more students. Downtown was timeless and the barber shop was right where I left it years ago.

Then some damned national magazine listed Auburn as one of the top places to retire in the country. The game day house business cranked up stronger than it had been. Jerks started buying houses to turn them into B&B's, My property assessments went up and up. The down town I knew and loved has been obliterated by outside developers and there are more damned Yankees living around me than ever before.

Now there were plenty of lovely people from Pennsylvania and Ohio here before, but they taught here and retired here and had fish fries and knew how to be good neighbors. The ones that have moved down here to retire want act like they are still in a city, are crappy neighbors moving into stable neighborhoods and immediately cutting down all of the trees in the yards and razing the older homes with charm and putting up the same damned ugly schematic homes you find in every damned city in the country. If they don't like a tree they have even been known to cut one down that was on your side of the property line.

So yeah, the last thing we need Triple A is somebody drawing attention to how nice we have it. And the amazing thing to me is first thing the newbies do after ruining a neighborhood is to quip how the new people are ruining the neighborhood. We kept our old home's charm because it fit the neighborhood and we cut down diseased trees, but replanted to keep the canopy that helps with cooling the home. But the next time one of these city dwelling, ***** about everything, loud mouths move in I may get my first arrest ever because I just don't know if I can put up with another one after the one who moved in behind our property.

For those who don't know we live on one of the prettiest residential streets near the campus. Like the buildings on campus the neighborhood had a look and a feel. And mostly older residents and retirees lived here until the development started, homes were bought and those purchasing them tore them down to put up what they hoped would be their B&B before the zoning changed. And our lots are larger than a football field, and wooded. So when one of these jerks cuts down all the trees it gaps the neighborhood.

I was happy living halfway between Opelika and Phenix City. Now I'm next door to Phenix City. I like Auburn better, though. But I'm sure it was way cooler 10 or 20 years ago.

We bought land south of Crawford (WAY out in the country), and I almost talked my wife into moving there, but I couldn't pull it off, and we wound up where we are now. If my wife had her druthers, we would move back to Atlanta, even though her whole family lives down here.

(05-11-2020 12:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 12:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 03:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.

Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.

I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

I moved to Auburn about a decade and a half ago. It was I had remembered it with a few more students. Downtown was timeless and the barber shop was right where I left it years ago.

Then some damned national magazine listed Auburn as one of the top places to retire in the country. The game day house business cranked up stronger than it had been. Jerks started buying houses to turn them into B&B's, My property assessments went up and up. The down town I knew and loved has been obliterated by outside developers and there are more damned Yankees living around me than ever before.

Now there were plenty of lovely people from Pennsylvania and Ohio here before, but they taught here and retired here and had fish fries and knew how to be good neighbors. The ones that have moved down here to retire want act like they are still in a city, are crappy neighbors moving into stable neighborhoods and immediately cutting down all of the trees in the yards and razing the older homes with charm and putting up the same damned ugly schematic homes you find in every damned city in the country. If they don't like a tree they have even been known to cut one down that was on your side of the property line.

So yeah, the last thing we need Triple A is somebody drawing attention to how nice we have it. And the amazing thing to me is first thing the newbies do after ruining a neighborhood is to quip how the new people are ruining the neighborhood. We kept our old home's charm because it fit the neighborhood and we cut down diseased trees, but replanted to keep the canopy that helps with cooling the home. But the next time one of these city dwelling, ***** about everything, loud mouths move in I may get my first arrest ever because I just don't know if I can put up with another one after the one who moved in behind our property.

For those who don't know we live on one of the prettiest residential streets near the campus. Like the buildings on campus the neighborhood had a look and a feel. And mostly older residents and retirees lived here until the development started, homes were bought and those purchasing them tore them down to put up what they hoped would be their B&B before the zoning changed. And our lots are larger than a football field, and wooded. So when one of these jerks cuts down all the trees it gaps the neighborhood.

I was happy living halfway between Opelika and Phenix City. Now I'm next door to Phenix City. I like Auburn better, though. But I'm sure it was way cooler 10 or 20 years ago.

We bought land south of Crawford (WAY out in the country), and I almost talked my wife into moving there, but I couldn't pull it off, and we wound up where we are now. If my wife had her druthers, we would move back to Atlanta, even though her whole family lives down here.

Well if I had my druthers we'd be living in Fayetteville Tennessee just up the road from Huntsville. Great people, low crime and great access for hunting, fishing and Huntsville with no state income tax.

But my honey wants to live in Auburn. It's her home town. So when they get the illness of wanting to live in Atlanta or Auburn I suppose we just have to realize that we have to love them in spite of it.

(05-11-2020 12:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-11-2020 12:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 03:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I was born and raised in a middle-sized city. Memphis. My work took me to all the big cities in the country. NYC. LA. Chicago. Miami. Houston. Dallas. Philly. Boston. Etc. I lived in Atlanta, b/c it was southern, and convenient to fly from there.

Five years ago, retired, I moved to East Alabama, out in the country, 12 miles to almost any civilization. I should have moved long long ago. Much happier place to live. Not as many social options, but enough, and Atlanta is 2 hours away. Much lower cost of living. Friendlier people. Slower pace. No traffic. Safer.

I'm glad most people haven't figured this out, lol.

I moved to Auburn about a decade and a half ago. It was I had remembered it with a few more students. Downtown was timeless and the barber shop was right where I left it years ago.

Then some damned national magazine listed Auburn as one of the top places to retire in the country. The game day house business cranked up stronger than it had been. Jerks started buying houses to turn them into B&B's, My property assessments went up and up. The down town I knew and loved has been obliterated by outside developers and there are more damned Yankees living around me than ever before.

Now there were plenty of lovely people from Pennsylvania and Ohio here before, but they taught here and retired here and had fish fries and knew how to be good neighbors. The ones that have moved down here to retire want act like they are still in a city, are crappy neighbors moving into stable neighborhoods and immediately cutting down all of the trees in the yards and razing the older homes with charm and putting up the same damned ugly schematic homes you find in every damned city in the country. If they don't like a tree they have even been known to cut one down that was on your side of the property line.

So yeah, the last thing we need Triple A is somebody drawing attention to how nice we have it. And the amazing thing to me is first thing the newbies do after ruining a neighborhood is to quip how the new people are ruining the neighborhood. We kept our old home's charm because it fit the neighborhood and we cut down diseased trees, but replanted to keep the canopy that helps with cooling the home. But the next time one of these city dwelling, ***** about everything, loud mouths move in I may get my first arrest ever because I just don't know if I can put up with another one after the one who moved in behind our property.

For those who don't know we live on one of the prettiest residential streets near the campus. Like the buildings on campus the neighborhood had a look and a feel. And mostly older residents and retirees lived here until the development started, homes were bought and those purchasing them tore them down to put up what they hoped would be their B&B before the zoning changed. And our lots are larger than a football field, and wooded. So when one of these jerks cuts down all the trees it gaps the neighborhood.

I was happy living halfway between Opelika and Phenix City. Now I'm next door to Phenix City. I like Auburn better, though. But I'm sure it was way cooler 10 or 20 years ago.

We bought land south of Crawford (WAY out in the country), and I almost talked my wife into moving there, but I couldn't pull it off, and we wound up where we are now. If my wife had her druthers, we would move back to Atlanta, even though her whole family lives down here.

My wife and I grew up in Atlanta but now we live on the GA/AL border. Despite both of our parents wishes, we can't envision a scenario that would cause us to move back ITP. For as much as Atlanta gets crapped on because of sprawl, I think it blends the city and suburb dynamics nicely. The issue is the traffic created by not having great arterial streets and an outer perimeter that would allow thru traffic to actually bypass the city.

I live in the 98 out of 100 most unhealthy county in NC. Im perfectly fine with it.

One of my ultimate goals in life is to buy about 200 acres in northeast Alabama. Somewhere deep in the Appalachian mountains foothills. My wife and I can build a small cabin and just get away from everything whenever we want.

(05-11-2020 07:11 AM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  One of my ultimate goals in life is to buy about 200 acres in northeast Alabama. Somewhere deep in the Appalachian mountains foothills. My wife and I can build a small cabin and just get away from everything whenever we want.

That would be awesome although if I was doing Alabama, it'd be down around Foley. Close enough to the beach, but far enough away from everything else. I tell folks I wanna do something like that and they say "you cant keep up that much land". Its not meant to be kept up, its meant to be a natural barrier so you don't have neighbors, neighborhood associations, etc