(05-08-2020 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  To prosecute the McMichaels, wouldn't they need to be able to prove that the duo went after Arbery with the intent to kill him?

I would think that would be very difficult.

My question would be if I were the plaintiff would be if they were committing a crime by chasing and trying to detain Arbery

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:06 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-a...TlY1h8bKP/

Torpy from the AJC on the killing. AJC tends to promote race baiting. Torpy, while liberal, is not a conformist and often irreverant. He's not a march in lockstep liberal. He has a pretty balanced piece.

"...Of the killing, Barnhill wrote, “Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.”Aside from the racial issue here, the case smells like law enforcement initially trying to give one of their own a break....

J. Tom Morgan, former DeKalb County district attorney, said, “I cannot start an incident and escalate it to defend myself.” If you are trying to make a citizen’s arrest, the crime must have been committed in your presence, he said...."

This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

Murder is kind of ridiculous. But it sounds like a crime if they didn't specifically see him commit a crime (which apparently they did not).

(05-08-2020 10:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  To prosecute the McMichaels, wouldn't they need to be able to prove that the duo went after Arbery with the intent to kill him?

I would think that would be very difficult.

My question would be if I were the plaintiff would be if they were committing a crime by chasing and trying to detain Arbery

They really need to be careful of these charges. From some reading as a layman, it seems that murder in GA is either causing death with malice or in the commission of a reasonably dangerous crime.

Is stopping someone with loaded weapons a dangerous enough crime (even though they say they were acting lawfully)?

Was their attempt at citizen's arrest a lawful act that was committed in an unlawful way or just plain old unlawful?

(05-08-2020 11:08 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  To prosecute the McMichaels, wouldn't they need to be able to prove that the duo went after Arbery with the intent to kill him?

I would think that would be very difficult.

My question would be if I were the plaintiff would be if they were committing a crime by chasing and trying to detain Arbery

They really need to be careful of these charges. From some reading as a layman, it seems that murder in GA is either causing death with malice or in the commission of a reasonably dangerous crime.

Is stopping someone with loaded weapons a dangerous enough crime (even though they say they were acting lawfully)?

Was their attempt at citizen's arrest a lawful act that was committed in an unlawful way or just plain old unlawful?

Malice would be VERY difficult to prove.

They did a dumb thing that resulted in someone paying the ultimate price.

Involuntary Manslaughter - Very likely - Based on what has been presented so far, they were reckless and negligent in their actions

Voluntary Manslaughter - Possibly - Their purpose/intent and knowledge of the likely outcome of their actions certainly needs to be debated

Murder - No - I do not believe the intentional set out to kill anyone
HOWEVER - if their actions of attempting to detain another citizen are deemed a felony than intention wont matter as the killing in the act of felony is murder.

I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

Yeah, no idea what actually happened. We've seen the video, but probably not everything. I do know I won't be quick to judge like the MSM wants me to. The media has been wrong so many times I've learned not to do that. Justice will be eventually be served but I'm sure some folks will be mad at that as well.

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

This. These two men put a man jogging into a life threatened defensive mindset and then shock pikachu faced when he went into defense mode. Then they chose the even more reprehensible behavior of shooting him. The fact that people are defending these knuckleheads is super cringe.

Quote:I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

LOL

Victim blaming the jogger that was shot. What a joke.

(05-07-2020 07:43 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 07:28 PM)Kronke Wrote:  Just got an alert that they were just arrested and charged for murder. Apparently social media outrage mobs dictate the law now. Bizarre.

Sleepy Joe Biden has judged them guilty. So much for due process.

Are we surprised?

He learned that from his dear friend and former boss:

“They (Cambridge, Mass. Police) acted stupidly.”

Only to be forced to back peddle later when ALL the information came to light and not just media clips used to incite ignorant masses.


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(05-08-2020 12:21 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

You can't expect someone to reflect on the moment in the face of death.

(05-08-2020 11:50 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 11:08 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  To prosecute the McMichaels, wouldn't they need to be able to prove that the duo went after Arbery with the intent to kill him?

I would think that would be very difficult.

My question would be if I were the plaintiff would be if they were committing a crime by chasing and trying to detain Arbery

They really need to be careful of these charges. From some reading as a layman, it seems that murder in GA is either causing death with malice or in the commission of a reasonably dangerous crime.

Is stopping someone with loaded weapons a dangerous enough crime (even though they say they were acting lawfully)?

Was their attempt at citizen's arrest a lawful act that was committed in an unlawful way or just plain old unlawful?

Malice would be VERY difficult to prove.

They did a dumb thing that resulted in someone paying the ultimate price.

Involuntary Manslaughter - Very likely - Based on what has been presented so far, they were reckless and negligent in their actions

Voluntary Manslaughter - Possibly - Their purpose/intent and knowledge of the likely outcome of their actions certainly needs to be debated

Murder - No - I do not believe the intentional set out to kill anyone
HOWEVER - if their actions of attempting to detain another citizen are deemed a felony than intention wont matter as the killing in the act of felony is murder.

Oh yeah, I think malice isn't in the picture. Involuntary Manslaughter is what I think the charge should be, but looking over the law it seems that the separation between felony and misdemeanor is whether or not it was killing during an outright unlawful (less than a felony) action OR killing during a lawful action that was done in an unlawful manner.

So was this stop itself outright unlawful or was it lawful, but done in an unlawful manner?

I jog a good bit. I never jog without my phone.

If I’m out jogging and it looks like I’m being harassed without cause or threatened... I’m not gonna continue running. I’m gonna find a spot to hide somehow and call the cops.

Why is this question not being asked? I see people jogging, walking, running ALL the time. I rarely ever see any of them without a phone regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, etc.


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(05-08-2020 01:02 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I jog a good bit. I never jog without my phone.

If I’m out jogging and it looks like I’m being harassed without cause or threatened... I’m not gonna continue running. I’m gonna find a spot to hide somehow and call the cops.

Why is this question not being asked? I see people jogging, walking, running ALL the time. I rarely ever see any of them without a phone regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

If I'm in a place I know, I don't take my phone jogging. Just can't stand the feel of it swinging in my pocket and weighing my shorts down.

(05-08-2020 12:47 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

This. These two men put a man jogging into a life threatened defensive mindset and then shock pikachu faced when he went into defense mode. Then they chose the even more reprehensible behavior of shooting him. The fact that people are defending these knuckleheads is super cringe.

Quote:I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

LOL

Victim blaming the jogger that was shot. What a joke.

Yep those two pieces of trash need to be in jail for the rest of their lives. If the old one dies soon, add his remaining sentence to the idiot son.

They deserve every bad thing that could possibly happen to them.

(05-08-2020 01:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 12:47 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

This. These two men put a man jogging into a life threatened defensive mindset and then shock pikachu faced when he went into defense mode. Then they chose the even more reprehensible behavior of shooting him. The fact that people are defending these knuckleheads is super cringe.

Quote:I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

LOL

Victim blaming the jogger that was shot. What a joke.

Yep those two pieces of trash need to be in jail for the rest of their lives. If the old one dies soon, add his remaining sentence to the idiot son.

They deserve every bad thing that could possibly happen to them.

Don't they deserve their day in court? Innocent until proven guilty...?

(05-08-2020 01:02 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I jog a good bit. I never jog without my phone.

If I’m out jogging and it looks like I’m being harassed without cause or threatened... I’m not gonna continue running. I’m gonna find a spot to hide somehow and call the cops.

Why is this question not being asked? I see people jogging, walking, running ALL the time. I rarely ever see any of them without a phone regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It's hard to hide in a neighborhood with 2 trucks tailing you. If he goes in anyone's yard he is trespassing. If he stops to pull out a phone, if he has it, he could get shot by the armed men thinking he was pulling out a gun.

(05-08-2020 01:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 12:47 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

This. These two men put a man jogging into a life threatened defensive mindset and then shock pikachu faced when he went into defense mode. Then they chose the even more reprehensible behavior of shooting him. The fact that people are defending these knuckleheads is super cringe.

Quote:I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

LOL

Victim blaming the jogger that was shot. What a joke.

Yep those two pieces of trash need to be in jail for the rest of their lives. If the old one dies soon, add his remaining sentence to the idiot son.

They deserve every bad thing that could possibly happen to them.

That is for the court to decide, not the MSM driven public. Sure folks can have opinions, but just remember how that opinion was formed in the first place.

(05-08-2020 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:20 AM)Chappy Wrote:  My guess is this will come down to whether the jury believes Arbery tried to avoid the confrontation, as reports suggest.

Throw race out of the situation for a minute. Two guys with guns try to stop you. You turn around. They drive ahead and cut you off again. You can't be expected to avoid the conflict forever. In my eyes, you are now the one defending yourself, so you try to disarm you attackers. That should not be a green light for them to kill you.

My question is would a natural "fight or flight" response be enough to argue past the defendant's claim of self defense. It's unclear from the video whether Arbery lunged at McMichael before or after the first shot was fired at him, but the video does capture the struggle for the gun before the next two shots that killed Arbery were fired. You could argue they had no right to try to perform a citizens arrest, but pointing a loaded gun at someone for no reason also isn't a felony. To prosecute the McMichaels, wouldn't they need to be able to prove that the duo went after Arbery with the intent to kill him?

Well this is where the earlier thought of overcharging comes up. If they charge them with 1st degree murder it will be tough to prove that was their plan and that this was premeditated. If they charge with 2nd degree murder, they have a much better chance of putting these men away.

(05-08-2020 01:29 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 01:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 12:47 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

This. These two men put a man jogging into a life threatened defensive mindset and then shock pikachu faced when he went into defense mode. Then they chose the even more reprehensible behavior of shooting him. The fact that people are defending these knuckleheads is super cringe.

Quote:I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

LOL

Victim blaming the jogger that was shot. What a joke.

Yep those two pieces of trash need to be in jail for the rest of their lives. If the old one dies soon, add his remaining sentence to the idiot son.

They deserve every bad thing that could possibly happen to them.

That is for the court to decide, not the MSM driven public. Sure folks can have opinions, but just remember how that opinion was formed in the first place.

I dont give a f what the court decides... guilty people get away with murder and worse on a daily basis due to court decisions....

This is a matter of right and wrong and these two morons were entirely 100% wrong.

Anyone arguing differently isnt even worth me discussing with and after replying to this post I wont discuss it with anyone too stupid to know 2 civilians chasing a man down and killing him is wrong.

Besides Avery's arrest and conviction in 2013 did he have any other convictions?

(05-08-2020 02:08 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 01:29 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 01:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 12:47 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-08-2020 10:22 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  This will be an interesting case. At what point does one person's right to self defense overrule another's. Obviously if you are breaking into someone's home you do not have a right to self defense because you are committing a crime. Were these fellas committing a crime by attempting to illegally detain the victim?

If I am out jogging or doing anything else minding my own business and a car chases me, blocks my path, and anyone gets out of the car with a gun not identifying themselves as law enforcement I am taking measures to defend myself. I don't care if they are black, white, brown or purple.

This. These two men put a man jogging into a life threatened defensive mindset and then shock pikachu faced when he went into defense mode. Then they chose the even more reprehensible behavior of shooting him. The fact that people are defending these knuckleheads is super cringe.

Quote:I have no idea what the truth is here but I will say this young man acted irrationally. All he had to do was do what these idiots said. Play it out. Then sue the chit out of them. Lesson learned the ultimate hard way.

LOL

Victim blaming the jogger that was shot. What a joke.

Yep those two pieces of trash need to be in jail for the rest of their lives. If the old one dies soon, add his remaining sentence to the idiot son.

They deserve every bad thing that could possibly happen to them.

That is for the court to decide, not the MSM driven public. Sure folks can have opinions, but just remember how that opinion was formed in the first place.

I dont give a f what the court decides... guilty people get away with murder and worse on a daily basis due to court decisions....

This is a matter of right and wrong and these two morons were entirely 100% wrong.

Anyone arguing differently isnt even worth me discussing with and after replying to this post I wont discuss it with anyone too stupid to know 2 civilians chasing a man down and killing him is wrong.

You certainly are no candidate for jury duty.