(05-07-2020 01:21 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 07:33 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  https://plandemicmovie.com/

This woman is apparently pretty well-known for being a conspiracy theorist & big anti-vaxxer believer, and has had her medical research retracted due to discredited info. No thanks.

So, ACTUAL conspiracies DON'T EXIST? Awfully convenient for you.

(05-07-2020 01:21 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 07:33 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  https://plandemicmovie.com/

This woman is apparently pretty well-known for being a conspiracy theorist & big anti-vaxxer believer, and has had her medical research retracted due to discredited info. No thanks.

Do you have a Link for what you posted?

(05-07-2020 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey, you don't arm your enemies with the knowledge of how to create, or with actual weapons, you don't want used against you. This is the fallacy of thinking by so many in your generation. It's just plain stupid.

What generation do you think I am in?

I certainly have been alive long enough to see 'our enemies' become our friends, and vice versa.

As to 'weapons', this is a pretty damn inefficient weapon. Obviously the intention wasn't to give them a weapon, but instead the technology to attack contagious viruses.... and I'm sure they've developed other viruses that are just as bad or much worse, as have we... how/why this one escaped or was let loose is another question.

As I said, if we created it, we should have known more about it. The technology dates back at least 80 years..... with our good friends the Germans and the 3rd Reich.... (though that was certainly before me) and arguably much much longer

(05-07-2020 03:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey, you don't arm your enemies with the knowledge of how to create, or with actual weapons, you don't want used against you. This is the fallacy of thinking by so many in your generation. It's just plain stupid.

What generation do you think I am in?

I certainly have been alive long enough to see 'our enemies' become our friends, and vice versa.

As to 'weapons', this is a pretty damn inefficient weapon. Obviously the intention wasn't to give them a weapon, but instead the technology to attack contagious viruses.... and I'm sure they've developed other viruses that are just as bad or much worse, as have we... how/why this one escaped or was let loose is another question.

As I said, if we created it, we should have known more about it. The technology dates back at least 80 years..... with our good friends the Germans and the 3rd Reich.... (though that was certainly before me) and arguably much much longer

It has achieved the aim the Chinese had in mind. It has tanked economies. Efficiency is measured in effectiveness of purpose. The purpose was not to kill. The purpose was to shut down economies. It achieved its purpose. The killing was sufficient to create the desired response. The problem with this virus is that it is fundamentally different from the flu and is highly contagious and recurs.

All weapons are tools to achieve a specific purpose. The purpose is not always primarily to kill.

We know what their plans were for attacking our economy. Our intel operatives conveyed it from Beijing in the early 90's. This virus was perfect to that end. It appeared natural, though the bonding cannot be explained naturally, it is highly communicable, and it recurs. This tool was specific to its end. It wasn't obvious enough to start a war, it was effective and unknown enough to create quarantine and shut down economies, and apparently since the Chinese have not released the genome and since none of their leadership have contracted or succumbed to it, they have a treatment. No other country's leadership has escaped the virus.

Globalism is failing, and in a major way. It is time to restrict it and trade in measured and heavily scrutinized manners.

And Hambone, all viruses are potential weapons. It's just a matter of finding the purpose to which they suited, or manipulating them to that end.

(05-07-2020 02:46 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 01:21 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 07:33 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  https://plandemicmovie.com/

This woman is apparently pretty well-known for being a conspiracy theorist & big anti-vaxxer believer, and has had her medical research retracted due to discredited info. No thanks.

Do you have a Link for what you posted?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/12/...ouse-virus

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot...e-syndrome

(05-07-2020 01:21 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 07:33 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  https://plandemicmovie.com/

This woman is apparently pretty well-known for being a conspiracy theorist & big anti-vaxxer believer, and has had her medical research retracted due to discredited info. No thanks.

Oh, she's definitely a bit of a kook. But that doesn't make her wrong here.

(05-07-2020 05:53 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 02:46 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 01:21 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 07:33 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  https://plandemicmovie.com/

This woman is apparently pretty well-known for being a conspiracy theorist & big anti-vaxxer believer, and has had her medical research retracted due to discredited info. No thanks.

Do you have a Link for what you posted?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/12/...ouse-virus

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot...e-syndrome

Thank you, I will check those two out.

(05-07-2020 03:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 03:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey, you don't arm your enemies with the knowledge of how to create, or with actual weapons, you don't want used against you. This is the fallacy of thinking by so many in your generation. It's just plain stupid.

What generation do you think I am in?

I certainly have been alive long enough to see 'our enemies' become our friends, and vice versa.

As to 'weapons', this is a pretty damn inefficient weapon. Obviously the intention wasn't to give them a weapon, but instead the technology to attack contagious viruses.... and I'm sure they've developed other viruses that are just as bad or much worse, as have we... how/why this one escaped or was let loose is another question.

As I said, if we created it, we should have known more about it. The technology dates back at least 80 years..... with our good friends the Germans and the 3rd Reich.... (though that was certainly before me) and arguably much much longer

It has achieved the aim the Chinese had in mind. It has tanked economies. Efficiency is measured in effectiveness of purpose. The purpose was not to kill. The purpose was to shut down economies. It achieved its purpose. The killing was sufficient to create the desired response. The problem with this virus is that it is fundamentally different from the flu and is highly contagious and recurs.

All weapons are tools to achieve a specific purpose. The purpose is not always primarily to kill.

We know what their plans were for attacking our economy. Our intel operatives conveyed it from Beijing in the early 90's. This virus was perfect to that end. It appeared natural, though the bonding cannot be explained naturally, it is highly communicable, and it recurs. This tool was specific to its end. It wasn't obvious enough to start a war, it was effective and unknown enough to create quarantine and shut down economies, and apparently since the Chinese have not released the genome and since none of their leadership have contracted or succumbed to it, they have a treatment. No other country's leadership has escaped the virus.

Globalism is failing, and in a major way. It is time to restrict it and trade in measured and heavily scrutinized manners.

And Hambone, all viruses are potential weapons. It's just a matter of finding the purpose to which they suited, or manipulating them to that end.

well, okay... I never really challenged any of these things and none of it responds to what i did say....

My point was, they were developing things like this with or without our help. If we helped them,, we should have known more about it than something they came up with on their own. It doesn't challenge your thought that we shouldn't have been involved, but it does mean that it probably doesn't matter as much as you imply.

I will say this... The reason it worked in shutting us down is that they lied about how dangerous is was... first that it was nothing, then that it was significantly something... a more dangerous disease would have been just as effective, with the added benefit of them still being able to maintain their credibility for the 'next' one. Pretty big bet if yo ask me that Trump didn't just say... screw you guys... we're open for business just like Swine.

but why would they want to shut our economy down? We're their biggest purchaser and they own a ton of our debt? Shut Europe or Japan, for sure... but us?

(05-07-2020 08:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 03:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 03:19 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey, you don't arm your enemies with the knowledge of how to create, or with actual weapons, you don't want used against you. This is the fallacy of thinking by so many in your generation. It's just plain stupid.

What generation do you think I am in?

I certainly have been alive long enough to see 'our enemies' become our friends, and vice versa.

As to 'weapons', this is a pretty damn inefficient weapon. Obviously the intention wasn't to give them a weapon, but instead the technology to attack contagious viruses.... and I'm sure they've developed other viruses that are just as bad or much worse, as have we... how/why this one escaped or was let loose is another question.

As I said, if we created it, we should have known more about it. The technology dates back at least 80 years..... with our good friends the Germans and the 3rd Reich.... (though that was certainly before me) and arguably much much longer

It has achieved the aim the Chinese had in mind. It has tanked economies. Efficiency is measured in effectiveness of purpose. The purpose was not to kill. The purpose was to shut down economies. It achieved its purpose. The killing was sufficient to create the desired response. The problem with this virus is that it is fundamentally different from the flu and is highly contagious and recurs.

All weapons are tools to achieve a specific purpose. The purpose is not always primarily to kill.

We know what their plans were for attacking our economy. Our intel operatives conveyed it from Beijing in the early 90's. This virus was perfect to that end. It appeared natural, though the bonding cannot be explained naturally, it is highly communicable, and it recurs. This tool was specific to its end. It wasn't obvious enough to start a war, it was effective and unknown enough to create quarantine and shut down economies, and apparently since the Chinese have not released the genome and since none of their leadership have contracted or succumbed to it, they have a treatment. No other country's leadership has escaped the virus.

Globalism is failing, and in a major way. It is time to restrict it and trade in measured and heavily scrutinized manners.

And Hambone, all viruses are potential weapons. It's just a matter of finding the purpose to which they suited, or manipulating them to that end.

well, okay... I never really challenged any of these things and none of it responds to what i did say....

My point was, they were developing things like this with or without our help. If we helped them,, we should have known more about it than something they came up with on their own. It doesn't challenge your thought that we shouldn't have been involved, but it does mean that it probably doesn't matter as much as you imply.

I will say this... The reason it worked in shutting us down is that they lied about how dangerous is was... first that it was nothing, then that it was significantly something... a more dangerous disease would have been just as effective, with the added benefit of them still being able to maintain their credibility for the 'next' one. Pretty big bet if yo ask me that Trump didn't just say... screw you guys... we're open for business just like Swine.

but why would they want to shut our economy down? We're their biggest purchaser and they own a ton of our debt? Shut Europe or Japan, for sure... but us?

Nothing against you Hambone we are just looking at the same event from two different perspectives, but the lies go on. Today the U.S. Army disqualified from service anyone who has the virus (understandable) and anyone who has ever had the virus whether they test positive or not (extremely concerning). This alone would make me suspicious that we've not been told the whole truth. As Ricky used to say, "Lucy, you got some splaining to do!" I've never known the U.S. Military to exclude service from people who supposedly were over a virus. This means this virus remains, as I initially said, fundamentally different. And while the structure of the two viruses (and that is what COVID19 is) appear natural the bonding is not. And in the middle of all of Fauci's duplicity and complicity let's not forget good ole Professor Lieber who raked in the dough selling information about our vaccines.

(05-07-2020 09:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nothing against you Hambone we are just looking at the same event from two different perspectives, but the lies go on. Today the U.S. Army disqualified from service anyone who has the virus (understandable) and anyone who has ever had the virus whether they test positive or not (extremely concerning). This alone would make me suspicious that we've not been told the whole truth. As Ricky used to say, "Lucy, you got some splaining to do!" I've never known the U.S. Military to exclude service from people who supposedly were over a virus. This means this virus remains, as I initially said, fundamentally different. And while the structure of the two viruses (and that is what COVID19 is) appear natural the bonding is not. And in the middle of all of Fauci's duplicity and complicity let's not forget good ole Professor Lieber who raked in the dough selling information about our vaccines.

of course not, and nothing ill intended toward you either.

yes... different perspectives... and I break it down into different buckets

1) The virus does seem to hang on and recur... which is more like Herpes (virus) than like syphilis (bacteria).... hence the decision you're talking about with the Military. That makes some sense to me clinically. Whether it is natural or man-made makes no difference to that... it does what it does... It is rather rare in viruses that attack the respiratory system. Intentional or not and 'hiding something' or not, the decision doesn't seem inconsistent with good practices.

said differently, whether they were hiding something or not, this is professionally what I would recommend until we had a better handle on it like we do viruses like Herpes.

2) since these things transmit through the air and casual contact, it is not unreasonable to expect that a disease like this that starts in one place will always be contained in that place... so it makes sense that the world share information and technology designed to combat, contain and control viruses.

3) it has been a generally accepted practice for perhaps centuries to allow/encourage diseases to mutate so as to study them to learn how to combat, contain and control them...

so yes... we are 'creating' them to learn how to combat them. We are arming our 'enemies' because we need them to control their own viruses, which they are mutating with or without our help.

Absolutely there could be something nefarious going on... or it could be the very real possibility that Fauci put his money where his mouth is in investing in technology to combat pandemic spread... and that those funds created this disease... that was 'somehow' allowed to escape. If you connect the dots that way, it can sound very nefarious... but given the small number of places that would be allowed to do such research and the large investment blocks that were not only funding this, but also curing cancer, extending lives etc etc.... it seems much less likely.

Now if Fauci invested in a fund/company whose sole (or almost sole) purpose was to develop viruses that were sold to China... that would be something. If instead he invested in a fund/company that broadly funded research that happened to include this, but also all sorts of others... then maybe it was just really bad luck.... or the Chinese are just really evil as opposed to merely being self-serving like most of us.

I don't know the details and If my supposition is wrong, that's fine. I'll be corrected... but I've just seen far too many of these supposed 'smoking guns' to just accept

as for my generation, I'm the lagging edge of Baby Boomers.

(05-08-2020 11:43 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-07-2020 09:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nothing against you Hambone we are just looking at the same event from two different perspectives, but the lies go on. Today the U.S. Army disqualified from service anyone who has the virus (understandable) and anyone who has ever had the virus whether they test positive or not (extremely concerning). This alone would make me suspicious that we've not been told the whole truth. As Ricky used to say, "Lucy, you got some splaining to do!" I've never known the U.S. Military to exclude service from people who supposedly were over a virus. This means this virus remains, as I initially said, fundamentally different. And while the structure of the two viruses (and that is what COVID19 is) appear natural the bonding is not. And in the middle of all of Fauci's duplicity and complicity let's not forget good ole Professor Lieber who raked in the dough selling information about our vaccines.

of course not, and nothing ill intended toward you either.

yes... different perspectives... and I break it down into different buckets

1) The virus does seem to hang on and recur... which is more like Herpes (virus) than like syphilis (bacteria).... hence the decision you're talking about with the Military. That makes some sense to me clinically. Whether it is natural or man-made makes no difference to that... it does what it does... It is rather rare in viruses that attack the respiratory system. Intentional or not and 'hiding something' or not, the decision doesn't seem inconsistent with good practices.

said differently, whether they were hiding something or not, this is professionally what I would recommend until we had a better handle on it like we do viruses like Herpes.

2) since these things transmit through the air and casual contact, it is not unreasonable to expect that a disease like this that starts in one place will always be contained in that place... so it makes sense that the world share information and technology designed to combat, contain and control viruses.

3) it has been a generally accepted practice for perhaps centuries to allow/encourage diseases to mutate so as to study them to learn how to combat, contain and control them...

so yes... we are 'creating' them to learn how to combat them. We are arming our 'enemies' because we need them to control their own viruses, which they are mutating with or without our help.

Absolutely there could be something nefarious going on... or it could be the very real possibility that Fauci put his money where his mouth is in investing in technology to combat pandemic spread... and that those funds created this disease... that was 'somehow' allowed to escape. If you connect the dots that way, it can sound very nefarious... but given the small number of places that would be allowed to do such research and the large investment blocks that were not only funding this, but also curing cancer, extending lives etc etc.... it seems much less likely.

Now if Fauci invested in a fund/company whose sole (or almost sole) purpose was to develop viruses that were sold to China... that would be something. If instead he invested in a fund/company that broadly funded research that happened to include this, but also all sorts of others... then maybe it was just really bad luck.... or the Chinese are just really evil as opposed to merely being self-serving like most of us.

I don't know the details and If my supposition is wrong, that's fine. I'll be corrected... but I've just seen far too many of these supposed 'smoking guns' to just accept

as for my generation, I'm the lagging edge of Baby Boomers.

The operative world is vigilance. Vigilance means you expect the worst from your adversaries and proceed with extreme caution in any dealings with them. None of this was vigilant with regard to a nation which has sold us lousy parts that brought down Ospreys, sold us substandard weight bearing construction bolts that brought down a tunnel in Boston, sold us baby food and children's products with toxic materials in them. None of this is vigilant when Lieber's grad students turned out to be spies, one caught smuggling biological samples at the airport and the other escaped and returned to her position in the Red Army which she lied about for entry. It's not vigilant with a country that has purged its own nation multiple times with the worst of course remaining the Cultural Revolution, but with many examples since. And none of this includes our espionage which uncovered their plans for to accessing, using, and destroying our economy.

We have pursued our current policies so Multi-nationals could access cheap labor (for which we have built their industrial infrastructure), we ran trade deficits with them to build them up (and it gave them leverage over the value of the dollar through their treasury purchases), and because of shared research (which gives their spies access to much of what R&D is working on within the U.S.), and through that we've given them access to the very virus research that helps them develop biological weapons. None of this is vigilance! And when all of this was laid out in detail with the specifics of their plan of attack on the U.S. economy I don't have to connect too many dots to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

Your vantage point is one of medical research. The perspective is quite different from my vantage point. If it wasn't intentional then the stars sure lined up perfectly with their War College's plan of attack on our society.

It is true that we have done quite well with former enemies, but in each case they were enemies we defeated and helped reshape their governments in our own image. In WWII it was the nationalist Chinese that were our allies. Mao's forces hid out in the hills until the end of the war so that their troops would be rested and not depleted for the struggle to take over the nation. Nothing has changed except that China realized they could not attain their military objectives while remaining woefully behind in industry and R&D. They killed our people in 2 wars, aid our adversaries in the Middle East and Africa, work against us in almost every area of the world, and have recently used Venezuela to base their missile subs for patrol of our West Coast. And yet for the sake of business (a buck) we have abandoned vigilance. From my vantage point it's all foolishness.

So I accept your measured response from a medical perspective, but I cannot share it from a strategic one.