(03-07-2020 08:34 PM)SalRivs Wrote:  The smart thing that should have been done, is that when the NCAA informed them that James Wiseman is "likely ineligible", then they should have pulled him from competition and said we will wait on your ruling about his status.

Other colleges have been informed that a player was "likely ineligible" and didn't play said player.

The NCAA goes through a process and like it or not schools have to follow their authoritarian rule or face the consequences.

I couldn't disagree more----and we would still be waiting. He should not have stopped playing---and suit should not have been dropped---jmo and you could be right.

(03-07-2020 07:12 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 06:32 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:56 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:13 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  I think there are too many gaps to know one way or the other.

If:
The NCAA ruled Wiseman was eligible
Then waited a while and said, say, late summer that they made a mistake
And/or said that they would honor their original certification (which I’ve yet to see any mention of this in writing),
then I would be furious with the NCAA

Any reasonable person would be furious with the NCAA. This is why I think there is more to the story. I also don’t think Ballin and company would have laid down like lambs had this been all there was to it.

In a nutshell, I’m not ready to pull out the pitchforks against the NCAA until I’m certain that we were in the right. There are still too many question marks.

According to the Summary of Dispute

https://247sports.com/college/memphis/Co...38266007_1

#9

Thanks kind sir

So it really doesn't matter when they said it was an error because they said he would be eligible anyway.

Then why doesn’t isn’t the school showing this agreement to every media outlet? If this were so, I would be screaming from the rooftops and showing it off.

Does saying— oh wait, our bad— he is really ineligible but we’ll honor our decision— sound like something the NCAA would actually say?

Basically, he’s really ineligible, but we will pretend he’s eligible since we messed up— and then we will turn around and say there is new evidence— that happens to be the same evidence that was already disclosed— and now he’s “likely ineligible”

I know the NCAA is messed up, but I’m skeptical that they are that messed up.

Because this is NOT an agreement. This is the plaintiff's paperwork for the lawsuit. Where they made these accusations. We have yet to see the notification from the NCAA where they said they made a mistake but will honor their original decision. Just claims made by Wiseman and Ballin that they made the statement.

If the actual documentation existed then the Uof M likely would have released it already.

(03-07-2020 08:53 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 08:34 PM)SalRivs Wrote:  The smart thing that should have been done, is that when the NCAA informed them that James Wiseman is "likely ineligible", then they should have pulled him from competition and said we will wait on your ruling about his status.

Other colleges have been informed that a player was "likely ineligible" and didn't play said player.

The NCAA goes through a process and like it or not schools have to follow their authoritarian rule or face the consequences.

I couldn't disagree more----and we would still be waiting. He should not have stopped playing---and suit should not have been dropped---jmo and you could be right.

The fact that the lawsuit was dropped is telling. If Ballin had the paperwork to support his claims in the summary of dispute then he would not have dropped the case.

Ballin has a history of pursuing cases that he has a strong possibility of winning. If not he pushing them off on an associate or settles.

The CYA move of naming the U of M as a defendant could also raise some questions if it actually went to trial. A hint of a collaboration between them and the U of M could lead to serious consequences.

(03-07-2020 07:16 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  Is it not worrisome that Ballin and the school have been completely mum on this rather than righteously indignant? Why did that fire disappear so suddenly? If what I said above is true, why not try to win this through the media/court of public opinion? Something isn’t adding up.

We basically lined up for a fight, slapped the bully in the face, and then immediately cowered and begged for mercy

With the U of M being named as a co-defendant in the case, you had better be happy that Ballin and the U of M are not making a statement. ANY HINT of impropriety on their part as far as collaborating could lead to more serious consequences.

(03-07-2020 09:35 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 08:53 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 08:34 PM)SalRivs Wrote:  The smart thing that should have been done, is that when the NCAA informed them that James Wiseman is "likely ineligible", then they should have pulled him from competition and said we will wait on your ruling about his status.

Other colleges have been informed that a player was "likely ineligible" and didn't play said player.

The NCAA goes through a process and like it or not schools have to follow their authoritarian rule or face the consequences.

I couldn't disagree more----and we would still be waiting. He should not have stopped playing---and suit should not have been dropped---jmo and you could be right.

The fact that the lawsuit was dropped is telling. If Ballin had the paperwork to support his claims in the summary of dispute then he would not have dropped the case.

Ballin has a history of pursuing cases that he has a strong possibility of winning. If not he pushing them off on an associate or settles.

The CYA move of naming the U of M as a defendant could also raise some questions if it actually went to trial. A hint of a collaboration between them and the U of M could lead to serious consequences.

Maybe so---you could be right.

(03-07-2020 05:13 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 04:31 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 01:14 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 01:05 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 12:11 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/s...963666002/

Makes it sound like the NCAA almost immediately turned around in Late May and said that their certification was in error and that this was on the radar months before the November 5th drama.

If this is the case, how do you feel that the university lied to you for almost half of a year? As I mentioned in another thread, it would be extremely disingenuous on the university’s part to tout Wiseman on all of the preseason ticket advertisements. IMO they should be on the hook for some compensation to season ticket holders and sponsors.

You need to reread the article.

“Subsequently” sounds pretty proximal to the May 29th date. Munz replied to me on Twitter that neither party has revealed exactly when this notice was received. This detail could very well be the crux of the coming infractions ruling.

As for me, I would feel very betrayed as a fan if the NCAA sent the notice before the Bahamas trip.

From the Oxford dictionary: “ after a particular thing has happened; afterward.”

No timeline is inferred, that interpretation is dependent on the reader.

What I don’t understand is that if you are a Tiger fan, why aren’t you more outraged at the consistency that the NCAA will go to any length to **** Memphis every chance they get? All I’ve seen in at least two threads is your poking at the school and pushing the position about season ticket holders (who are mostly all boosters too) being compensated because the school is again tied up in the kangaroo court that is the NCAA infractions committee.

Are you really that angry, or just ?

I think there are too many gaps to know one way or the other.

If:
The NCAA ruled Wiseman was eligible
Then waited a while and said, say, late summer that they made a mistake
And/or said that they would honor their original certification (which I’ve yet to see any mention of this in writing),
then I would be furious with the NCAA

Any reasonable person would be furious with the NCAA. This is why I think there is more to the story. I also don’t think Ballin and company would have laid down like lambs had this been all there was to it.

In a nutshell, I’m not ready to pull out the pitchforks against the NCAA until I’m certain that we were in the right. There are still too many question marks.

Honest to god what has the NCAA ever done that was good? They’re a corrupt as hell organization that does 2 things: create Bs legal justification to profit off student athletes without paying them a fraction of what they’re earning AND ALSO allow the schools to keep this money tax-free because it somehow relates to non-profit universities (despite really having nothing to do with education). And then they are a good old boys club that wink wink at blue blood cheaters while coming down hard on technicalities on perceived outsiders crashing the club. They are the absolute ****—g worst.

(03-07-2020 10:43 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:13 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 04:31 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 01:14 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 01:05 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  You need to reread the article.

“Subsequently” sounds pretty proximal to the May 29th date. Munz replied to me on Twitter that neither party has revealed exactly when this notice was received. This detail could very well be the crux of the coming infractions ruling.

As for me, I would feel very betrayed as a fan if the NCAA sent the notice before the Bahamas trip.

From the Oxford dictionary: “ after a particular thing has happened; afterward.”

No timeline is inferred, that interpretation is dependent on the reader.

What I don’t understand is that if you are a Tiger fan, why aren’t you more outraged at the consistency that the NCAA will go to any length to **** Memphis every chance they get? All I’ve seen in at least two threads is your poking at the school and pushing the position about season ticket holders (who are mostly all boosters too) being compensated because the school is again tied up in the kangaroo court that is the NCAA infractions committee.

Are you really that angry, or just ?

I think there are too many gaps to know one way or the other.

If:
The NCAA ruled Wiseman was eligible
Then waited a while and said, say, late summer that they made a mistake
And/or said that they would honor their original certification (which I’ve yet to see any mention of this in writing),
then I would be furious with the NCAA

Any reasonable person would be furious with the NCAA. This is why I think there is more to the story. I also don’t think Ballin and company would have laid down like lambs had this been all there was to it.

In a nutshell, I’m not ready to pull out the pitchforks against the NCAA until I’m certain that we were in the right. There are still too many question marks.

Honest to god what has the NCAA ever done that was good? They’re a corrupt as hell organization that does 2 things: create Bs legal justification to profit off student athletes without paying them a fraction of what they’re earning AND ALSO allow the schools to keep this money tax-free because it somehow relates to non-profit universities (despite really having nothing to do with education). And then they are a good old boys club that wink wink at blue blood cheaters while coming down hard on technicalities on perceived outsiders crashing the club. They are the absolute ****—g worst.

The NCAA is governed by the University Presidents. They can at any time change any bylaws they want to change.

Someone saying the NCAA this or the NCAA that - they are only the arm that follows up on the bylaws.

The finger should be pointing at the Presidents of the Universities - they control everything the NCAA does period.

(03-07-2020 12:11 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/s...963666002/

Makes it sound like the NCAA almost immediately turned around in Late May and said that their certification was in error and that this was on the radar months before the November 5th drama.

If this is the case, how do you feel that the university lied to you for almost half of a year? As I mentioned in another thread, it would be extremely disingenuous on the university’s part to tout Wiseman on all of the preseason ticket advertisements. IMO they should be on the hook for some compensation to season ticket holders and sponsors.

Trolls creeping out of the woodwork...

(03-07-2020 11:31 PM)griffin Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 10:43 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:13 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 04:31 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 01:14 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  “Subsequently” sounds pretty proximal to the May 29th date. Munz replied to me on Twitter that neither party has revealed exactly when this notice was received. This detail could very well be the crux of the coming infractions ruling.

As for me, I would feel very betrayed as a fan if the NCAA sent the notice before the Bahamas trip.

From the Oxford dictionary: “ after a particular thing has happened; afterward.”

No timeline is inferred, that interpretation is dependent on the reader.

What I don’t understand is that if you are a Tiger fan, why aren’t you more outraged at the consistency that the NCAA will go to any length to **** Memphis every chance they get? All I’ve seen in at least two threads is your poking at the school and pushing the position about season ticket holders (who are mostly all boosters too) being compensated because the school is again tied up in the kangaroo court that is the NCAA infractions committee.

Are you really that angry, or just ?

I think there are too many gaps to know one way or the other.

If:
The NCAA ruled Wiseman was eligible
Then waited a while and said, say, late summer that they made a mistake
And/or said that they would honor their original certification (which I’ve yet to see any mention of this in writing),
then I would be furious with the NCAA

Any reasonable person would be furious with the NCAA. This is why I think there is more to the story. I also don’t think Ballin and company would have laid down like lambs had this been all there was to it.

In a nutshell, I’m not ready to pull out the pitchforks against the NCAA until I’m certain that we were in the right. There are still too many question marks.

Honest to god what has the NCAA ever done that was good? They’re a corrupt as hell organization that does 2 things: create Bs legal justification to profit off student athletes without paying them a fraction of what they’re earning AND ALSO allow the schools to keep this money tax-free because it somehow relates to non-profit universities (despite really having nothing to do with education). And then they are a good old boys club that wink wink at blue blood cheaters while coming down hard on technicalities on perceived outsiders crashing the club. They are the absolute ****—g worst.

The NCAA is governed by the University Presidents. They can at any time change any bylaws they want to change.

Someone saying the NCAA this or the NCAA that - they are only the arm that follows up on the bylaws.

The finger should be pointing at the Presidents of the Universities - they control everything the NCAA does period.

I don't understand any of this. Duke won a national championship when Lance Thomas was ineligible. Duke won a national championship when Corey Maggette was ineligible. Eric Bledsoe was ineligible at Kentucky. Derrick Rose was never interviewed.

Your point makes no sense.

And yet in today's nationwide game on CBS it's Memphis vs. Houston & the Nissan commercial shows players & fans from Louisville & Oregon in their team uniforms & NCAA logos.

The NCAA profit on Ad fees for those commercials on the backs & image of "Amateur" athletes & their teams.

It's just so hypocritical. Do as I say not as I do phony BS.

Seems clear to me there is fault on both party's side or this would not be going to an independent third party resolution. If it was open and shut against Memphis and Penny, then why in hell would NCAA agree to third party. Obviously both sides f@cked up and third party will decide how much by which side.

(03-07-2020 02:57 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote:  any compensation talk is ridiculous. everyone got their money’s worth.

Would there not be outcry if a music festival continued to tout its main act to sell tickets and recruit other bands, all the while knowing behind the scenes that the main act was likely not going to play? Sure the other acts played hard and the show was entertaining, but it was false advertising.

Maybe we didn’t know until November. Maybe there is not more to Wiseman transferring to East freaking High School from Ensworth (a move that makes no logical sense). I get the feeling that, when the gaps in this saga are filled in by the investigation, we may be redirecting the anger that’s currently aimed at the NCAA towards Penny and the athletic program.

Not sure I follow that argument. You can't say that its shady that Wiseman transferred to East, and then say that the incentive offered by Penny was to pay their moving expenses. Wiseman and/or the whole family would have to have had some incentive to move. If there is evidence of some other incentive being provided, then I would agree with your last statement.

(03-08-2020 01:45 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 02:57 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote:  any compensation talk is ridiculous. everyone got their money’s worth.

Would there not be outcry if a music festival continued to tout its main act to sell tickets and recruit other bands, all the while knowing behind the scenes that the main act was likely not going to play? Sure the other acts played hard and the show was entertaining, but it was false advertising.

Maybe we didn’t know until November. Maybe there is not more to Wiseman transferring to East freaking High School from Ensworth (a move that makes no logical sense). I get the feeling that, when the gaps in this saga are filled in by the investigation, we may be redirecting the anger that’s currently aimed at the NCAA towards Penny and the athletic program.

Not sure I follow that argument. You can't say that its shady that Wiseman transferred to East, and then say that the incentive offered by Penny was to pay their moving expenses. Wiseman and/or the whole family would have to have had some incentive to move. If there is evidence of some other incentive being provided, then I would agree with your last statement.

some other incentive?

(03-07-2020 06:13 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:36 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 04:09 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  The mistake was made when the lawsuit was dropped. We had the ncaa by the short hairs and nationally public opinion was on our side. I hopped since Ballin was involved it may have been different-----but instead the university did what it does best--by bending over and just taking it. We know our place and ALWAYS just take it while they SCREW us over and over and over. Whats it gonna take for us or someone to actually call/stand up to the NCAA on their unfair BS rulings against the NON BLUE BLOODS.

Ballin already knew details that are just now coming out.

If anything it was the NCAA that had Memphis by the short hairs.

That is why he added the U of Memphis to the defendants list. The NCAA almost immediately said they made the mistake on the certification.

The main portion of the deal which led to public support for Wiseman is the claim that they certified him and then waited till the season started to declare him ineligible.

That scenario is out the window now.

The school and Wiseman knew in MAY that he was likely not eligible.

Why the word "likely"---if the ncaa had us by the short hairs---why use the "likely" verbiage ? If they KNEW he was ineligible why not say so. Did they set us up ? Did the NCAA /Calipari/K/Self/Williams opine that if we say "likely ineligible" that MEMPHIS would play him and then we can nail them ?

On the other hand if the ncaa knew he was ineligible and told us likely ineligible ---then we would be fools NOT TO PLAY him. If they say likely ineligible and we DON'T play him ---we risk looking like idiots at the end of the year if they say he was good to go. They could say that they didnt say he was ineligible only LIKELY ineligible and we look like IDIOTS for not playing him. Just my thoughts -I'm not an attorney but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. For the little guys- the non power 5 schools--for the good and betterment of college basketball the suit should not have been dropped. WHY ? because they would have nailed us anyway for something else. Play or not playing they would have still nailed us . We were damned if we do damned if we don't. Ala Rose----said he was good and then he wasnt---we should have sued then. JMO

That’s why I dont understand the problem with playing him those first few days. He was eligible until they say he is NOT eligible. LIKELY ineligible really means nothing other than a possible risk of being forces to forfeit games he plays in if ultimately deemed ineligible...AND I would even question that because their last formal ruling was eligible.

(03-08-2020 01:27 PM)Tiger_Lurch Wrote:  Seems clear to me there is fault on both party's side or this would not be going to an independent third party resolution. If it was open and shut against Memphis and Penny, then why in hell would NCAA agree to third party. Obviously both sides f@cked up and third party will decide how much by which side.

I am going to guess because the NCAA wants to get out from under the public opinion that is clearly set against them and they don't want it said they punished Memphis because Memphis defied them and now are being taught a lesson. By going to the third party resolution, it allows the NCAA to hold their hands up and say that they didnt do it....

They also know that Memphis is going to get some kind of punishment, so that works well enough for them.

Once again I am going to guess, 1 year post season ban, scholarship reduction, recruiting limitations.

If it were me, I would make the announcement, no post season this year, and scholarship reduction for the next 2 years, limited on campus visits and try to get it done so we can start recruiting again.

(03-07-2020 12:47 PM)tigerlands Wrote:  "Shortly before the Tigers' season opener on Nov. 5, the NCAA notified Memphis that Wiseman was "likely ineligible" as a result of the $11,500 Hardaway provided to Artis."

That use of "likely ineligible" seems like something the university should focus on.

I love that phrase. "Likely ineligible." Kinda like having your wife say, "I probably want a divorce."

(03-08-2020 01:56 PM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(03-08-2020 01:45 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 02:57 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 02:38 PM)tiger-viper Wrote:  any compensation talk is ridiculous. everyone got their money’s worth.

Would there not be outcry if a music festival continued to tout its main act to sell tickets and recruit other bands, all the while knowing behind the scenes that the main act was likely not going to play? Sure the other acts played hard and the show was entertaining, but it was false advertising.

Maybe we didn’t know until November. Maybe there is not more to Wiseman transferring to East freaking High School from Ensworth (a move that makes no logical sense). I get the feeling that, when the gaps in this saga are filled in by the investigation, we may be redirecting the anger that’s currently aimed at the NCAA towards Penny and the athletic program.

Not sure I follow that argument. You can't say that its shady that Wiseman transferred to East, and then say that the incentive offered by Penny was to pay their moving expenses. Wiseman and/or the whole family would have to have had some incentive to move. If there is evidence of some other incentive being provided, then I would agree with your last statement.

some other incentive?

His sister moved to Memphis, the family wanted to join her. There isn't a grand conspiracy. There WAS a viable reason that had nothing to do with his basketball career and his future at the University of Memphis.

(03-08-2020 04:43 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 12:47 PM)tigerlands Wrote:  "Shortly before the Tigers' season opener on Nov. 5, the NCAA notified Memphis that Wiseman was "likely ineligible" as a result of the $11,500 Hardaway provided to Artis."

That use of "likely ineligible" seems like something the university should focus on.

I love that phrase. "Likely ineligible." Kinda like having your wife say, "I probably want a divorce."

Absolutely true and it is absolutely BS and needs to change, but we have seen from our very own experience, once the NCAA decides to declare someone ineligible they will strip every single win he played in
before being declared ineligible. At least with Wiseman they gave us a warning instead of waiting until they declared him ineligible.

(03-07-2020 08:53 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 08:34 PM)SalRivs Wrote:  The smart thing that should have been done, is that when the NCAA informed them that James Wiseman is "likely ineligible", then they should have pulled him from competition and said we will wait on your ruling about his status.

Other colleges have been informed that a player was "likely ineligible" and didn't play said player.

The NCAA goes through a process and like it or not schools have to follow their authoritarian rule or face the consequences.

I couldn't disagree more----and we would still be waiting. He should not have stopped playing---and suit should not have been dropped---jmo and you could be right.

I have ZERO inside information just so I am clear up front.

I am willing to bet though that as soon as Wiseman got notice he was possibly ineligible that he notified Penny he was going to leave. He was convinced by admin, coaches and lawyers they could fight this and he could play. Enter the TRO. The suit was dropped because the NCAA and Memphis came to an agreement that was likely supposed to put this to rest or at least his eligibility issues. Wiseman never wanted and never intended to sit games. Again, Penny tried to keep him happy on the bench but he eventually bounced.

The lawsuit was dropped because we knew we did not have to worry about long term eligibility blowback, paying back NCAA money, vacating wins, etc.

(03-07-2020 09:24 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 07:12 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 06:32 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:56 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(03-07-2020 05:13 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  I think there are too many gaps to know one way or the other.

If:
The NCAA ruled Wiseman was eligible
Then waited a while and said, say, late summer that they made a mistake
And/or said that they would honor their original certification (which I’ve yet to see any mention of this in writing),
then I would be furious with the NCAA

Any reasonable person would be furious with the NCAA. This is why I think there is more to the story. I also don’t think Ballin and company would have laid down like lambs had this been all there was to it.

In a nutshell, I’m not ready to pull out the pitchforks against the NCAA until I’m certain that we were in the right. There are still too many question marks.

According to the Summary of Dispute

https://247sports.com/college/memphis/Co...38266007_1

#9

Thanks kind sir

So it really doesn't matter when they said it was an error because they said he would be eligible anyway.

Then why doesn’t isn’t the school showing this agreement to every media outlet? If this were so, I would be screaming from the rooftops and showing it off.

Does saying— oh wait, our bad— he is really ineligible but we’ll honor our decision— sound like something the NCAA would actually say?

Basically, he’s really ineligible, but we will pretend he’s eligible since we messed up— and then we will turn around and say there is new evidence— that happens to be the same evidence that was already disclosed— and now he’s “likely ineligible”

I know the NCAA is messed up, but I’m skeptical that they are that messed up.

Because this is NOT an agreement. This is the plaintiff's paperwork for the lawsuit. Where they made these accusations. We have yet to see the notification from the NCAA where they said they made a mistake but will honor their original decision. Just claims made by Wiseman and Ballin that they made the statement.

If the actual documentation existed then the Uof M likely would have released it already.

Nope, no competent counsel would advise showing all of your cards. That is a terrible lack of strategy. They know what they have and they are smart to keep it out of the public eye. It is an additional bargaining chip. Memphis could make anything public at any point. Showing your cards is always an option but once you put them out there they cannot be taken back. I am thankful you are not representing us.