For everyone talking about how terrible BC's bball is and how no one cares. Don't you think the fans will care more when schools like UConn, PC, Nova, GTown, St. John's and Seton Hall come to town every year as opposed to schools in the south?

4 out of their last 5 season in the BE they went dancing and in the 15 years in the ACC they went 3 times with 2 of those in their first 2 seasons. They can recruit better in a more regional conference.

BC is in a power conference. They are not leaving.

I haven’t looked at their basketball schedule, but for football I believe they have Holy Cross, UMass, and UConn on future schedules. It is definitely beneficial for them to schedule regional opponents OOC. Miami is a historically important game, and was their rivalry week game at times; the ACC has failed to capitalize on this.

(02-20-2020 07:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  BC is in a power conference. They are not leaving.

I haven’t looked at their basketball schedule, but for football I believe they have Holy Cross, UMass, and UConn on future schedules. It is definitely beneficial for them to schedule regional opponents OOC. Miami is a historically important game, and was their rivalry week game at times; the ACC has failed to capitalize on this.

i don't think anyone is saying they are actually going to leave or should leave, just the hypothetical if BC were available or wanted to come back would the BE take them.

(02-20-2020 06:17 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For everyone talking about how terrible BC's bball is and how no one cares. Don't you think the fans will care more when schools like UConn, PC, Nova, GTown, St. John's and Seton Hall come to town every year as opposed to schools in the south?

4 out of their last 5 season in the BE they went dancing and in the 15 years in the ACC they went 3 times with 2 of those in their first 2 seasons. They can recruit better in a more regional conference.

Not really no. For the most part, if you didn't go to BC you really don't care much about BC sports (outside of Hockey). And BC is a small university. They seem to have no interest in generating high attendance games with local rivals.

They cancelled the series with UMass after the last time we played them in their house. They got wrecked 82-46 at home in front of a favorable crowd for UMass. The next two games were "neutral site" and took place at the Garden, with UMass winning both easily.

It's sad actually, fairly even series (10-9 BC over UMass in the official rivalry game) and generally good attendance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Classic

Boston College wouldn't be interested in moving some of its sports to the Big East. And the Big East wouldn't be interested in adding a mediocre basketball program. With UConn, the Big East now has 2 teams in New England. That is enough.

(02-20-2020 10:09 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 06:17 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For everyone talking about how terrible BC's bball is and how no one cares. Don't you think the fans will care more when schools like UConn, PC, Nova, GTown, St. John's and Seton Hall come to town every year as opposed to schools in the south?

4 out of their last 5 season in the BE they went dancing and in the 15 years in the ACC they went 3 times with 2 of those in their first 2 seasons. They can recruit better in a more regional conference.

Not really no. For the most part, if you didn't go to BC you really don't care much about BC sports (outside of Hockey). And BC is a small university. They seem to have no interest in generating high attendance games with local rivals.

They cancelled the series with UMass after the last time we played them in their house. They got wrecked 82-46 at home in front of a favorable crowd for UMass. The next two games were "neutral site" and took place at the Garden, with UMass winning both easily.

It's sad actually, fairly even series (10-9 BC over UMass in the official rivalry game) and generally good attendance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Classic

You know the big east is filled with small universities right?

Would the Big East take Boston College?

Would the Sun Belt take Mississippi State?

The answer to both questions is ABSOLUTELY - and just as irrelevant to reality.

Doesn't matter whether the BE would take them or not. They aren't leaving the mother lode pay checks from the ACC. Besides why would they go back to a conference they left before. Heck BC wasn't even the first choice in that region when the conference was formed. They were a sloppy second choice when Holy Cross turned down the BE when it was formed.

(02-20-2020 11:29 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Would the Big East take Boston College?

Would the Sun Belt take Mississippi State?

The answer to both questions is ABSOLUTELY - and just as irrelevant to reality.

I don't know whether the Sun Belt is a great comparison to the Big East. Over the past 7 years, the Big East has a record of 187-153 vs the P5 and is 30-17 this year.

(02-20-2020 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 10:09 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 06:17 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For everyone talking about how terrible BC's bball is and how no one cares. Don't you think the fans will care more when schools like UConn, PC, Nova, GTown, St. John's and Seton Hall come to town every year as opposed to schools in the south?

4 out of their last 5 season in the BE they went dancing and in the 15 years in the ACC they went 3 times with 2 of those in their first 2 seasons. They can recruit better in a more regional conference.

Not really no. For the most part, if you didn't go to BC you really don't care much about BC sports (outside of Hockey). And BC is a small university. They seem to have no interest in generating high attendance games with local rivals.

They cancelled the series with UMass after the last time we played them in their house. They got wrecked 82-46 at home in front of a favorable crowd for UMass. The next two games were "neutral site" and took place at the Garden, with UMass winning both easily.

It's sad actually, fairly even series (10-9 BC over UMass in the official rivalry game) and generally good attendance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Classic

You know the big east is filled with small universities right?

You missed literally the entire point of my post. Congrats on that. Let me point it out to you:

Quote:For the most part, if you didn't go to BC you really don't care much about BC sports

They don't have a general fanbase in the state. You don't see people walking around in BC gear if they didn't go there. They're not like the current Big East schools in that sense. Hell, they're not even like Dayton in that sense. When your only fans are a portion of your alumni (not even all of them), and you don't have a lot of alumni...you're not going to have many fans.

Playing other small universities won't get the general populace to want to watch them more.

(02-20-2020 06:11 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  2. Network has nothing to do with it. Like I said before DePaul who has been the worst power conference program for almost 2 decades brings great value to the BE just by being in Chicago. BC would do the same for the Big East and currently does for the ACC.

Network has everything to do with it if your argument is that BC would "deliver" Boston in the same way Rutgers "delivers" New York. The entire reason for taking Rutgers, in conjunction with Maryland, was expanding the Big Ten Network into what I believe is the most densely populated portion of the country. This shouldn't be controversial, it's been covered to death.

(02-20-2020 06:11 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  3.The B1G clearly rather have Rutgers in the conference and lose by 40 than have UConn in the conference and lose by 40+. The jealousy from UConn fans who somehow feel like they deserve our spot in the B1G is laughable.

Never brought up anything along these lines. The opposite in fact - I've explained why Rutgers was profitable for the Big Ten. It just isn't because New York City is wild for Scarlett Knights content.

(02-20-2020 06:17 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  For everyone talking about how terrible BC's bball is and how no one cares. Don't you think the fans will care more when schools like UConn, PC, Nova, GTown, St. John's and Seton Hall come to town every year as opposed to schools in the south?

4 out of their last 5 season in the BE they went dancing and in the 15 years in the ACC they went 3 times with 2 of those in their first 2 seasons. They can recruit better in a more regional conference.

That's not necessarily a good thing. UConn/Providence/StJ/SH all already recruit the New England prep school circuit hard. Any benefit BC sees in recruiting regionally almost has to come at the expense of existing Big East schools. Alternatively, someone like Saint Louis actually brings a new and fairly strong recruiting ground into the fold.

(02-20-2020 11:29 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Would the Big East take Boston College?

Would the Sun Belt take Mississippi State?

The answer to both questions is ABSOLUTELY - and just as irrelevant to reality.

Well, the important difference there is that Mississippi State would actually be a good/the best Sun Belt program and generate the most revenue in the conference. BC would be a bottom-two program in the conference and doesn't open up new territory for anything. They don't really need a Wednesday session bodybag team with a small fan base for the tournament.

As a BC alum and fan, I am absolutely mystified by this thread.

BC would have no interest whatsoever in ever leaving the ACC for BB or any other sport so this talk is waste of air.

Yes, BC's BB program has struggled in recent years - though this year they sit in the middle of the pack in the ACC. BC's FB program has certainly pulled its weight int the ACC - in 15 seasons of ACC play, making bowl games in 12 of those seasons and playing in two ACCCG's. Those in the ACC know that BCFB is seldom an easy opponent.

I love how the Umass and UConn fans jump on this conversation as it applies to BB. No mention of FB, of course, as BC has crushed their teams whenever they have played BC. Both the UConn and Umass programs have been at the bottom of CF for a number of years now.

What people might not realize is the renaissance that is taking place in BC athletics. Boston College is a wealthy school and it is making a huge investment in athletics. Take a stroll across campus sometime. You will see a new football IPF that is among the BEST of such facilities in all of college football. New baseball/softball complexes have been built as well as an IPF dedicated to baseball and softball. When it is completed, BC will have THREE indoor practice facilities - the Fish Center for FB, the "Bubble" - inflated for the winter months for soccer, lacrosse, etc, and the Pete Frates Center (finished this summer) for baseball/softball. On top of this, BC just finished a new $200M student recreation center which will house a number of olympic sports.

Last year, BC launched a $150M athletics - only fundraising drive. Reportedly, over $100M has already been raised to meet this goal. Next up, a new MBB/WBB dedicated practice facility.

After last season, BC put significantly more $$'s into the FB coaching staff and hired a whole new coaching staff. I would not be shocked if after the season we saw something similar in MBB.

I think in the coming seasons we will see the fruits of these investments. BC is already a solid ACC FB program. They will be even better in the coming years. I expect BB will have a similar trajectory.

Again, I do wonder why this topic even comes up. I do think people get mixed up with the "Catholic" identity here. People seem to invariably compare BC to the Catholic BB schools when, in fact, they are in may ways dissimilar. While they may all be "Catholic" institutions, they all have differing views on athletics. I have great respect for the Catholic BB schools (my daughter is a proud alum of G'town) but BC's philosophy as it relates to athletics is much more in line with Notre Dame as opposed to the Catholic BB schools.

BB will get better in the coming years. The $$'s are there to make this happen.

Again, I think this thread is baffling.

(02-20-2020 02:08 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  .
I love how the Umass and UConn fans jump on this conversation as it applies to BB. No mention of FB, of course, as BC has crushed their teams whenever they have played BC. Both the UConn and Umass programs have been at the bottom of CF for a number of years now.

The question posed was very specifically whether the Big East would agree to take BC off the ACC's hands if the ACC agreed to keep BC as a football affiliate. Why would the Big East care about football (or anything other than basketball, for that matter)?

(02-20-2020 02:19 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 02:08 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  .
I love how the Umass and UConn fans jump on this conversation as it applies to BB. No mention of FB, of course, as BC has crushed their teams whenever they have played BC. Both the UConn and Umass programs have been at the bottom of CF for a number of years now.

The question posed was very specifically whether the Big East would agree to take BC off the ACC's hands if the ACC agreed to keep BC as a football affiliate. Why would the Big East care about football (or anything other than basketball, for that matter)?

FB aside, why would this make any sense?:

1. BC would have no interest in such a move.
2. The ACC would have no interest in this. BC BB may be down but they are hardly the worst team in the ACC. Pit and Miami have in recent years been at or below BC's level in the ACC and I don't hear anybody speculating if the BE would "take them back" for BB.
3. BC sits in the #9 media market. When they have good teams, people watch.
4. This also ignores the simple fact that nothing stays the same. When BC first came to the ACC, they were one of the better MBB teams in the ACC (losing to Duke by one basket in the ACC Tournament CG one year). With new leadership and the investments BC is now making, they will get much better in the coming years.

(02-20-2020 03:27 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  FB aside, why would this make any sense?

It doesn't, that's the point. BC's never going to willingly move off that ACC spot because an invitation isn't coming around a second time, and BC basketball isn't an attractive enough property that the Big East would go all-out to land them.

(02-20-2020 02:08 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  ...BC's FB program has certainly pulled its weight in the ACC - in 15 seasons of ACC play, making bowl games in 12 of those seasons and playing in two ACCCG's. Those in the ACC know that BCFB is seldom an easy opponent.

...After last season, BC put significantly more $$'s into the FB coaching staff and hired a whole new coaching staff. I would not be shocked if after the season we saw something similar in MBB.

I think in the coming seasons we will see the fruits of these investments. BC is already a solid ACC FB program. They will be even better in the coming years. I expect BB will have a similar trajectory.

...BC's philosophy as it relates to athletics is much more in line with Notre Dame as opposed to the Catholic BB schools.

The ideal situation for the ACC would be for Boston College to rival (or even eclipse) Notre Dame in football.

(02-20-2020 02:08 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  As a BC alum and fan, I am absolutely mystified by this thread.

BC would have no interest whatsoever in ever leaving the ACC for BB or any other sport so this talk is waste of air.

Yes, BC's BB program has struggled in recent years - though this year they sit in the middle of the pack in the ACC. BC's FB program has certainly pulled its weight int the ACC - in 15 seasons of ACC play, making bowl games in 12 of those seasons and playing in two ACCCG's. Those in the ACC know that BCFB is seldom an easy opponent.

I love how the Umass and UConn fans jump on this conversation as it applies to BB. No mention of FB, of course, as BC has crushed their teams whenever they have played BC. Both the UConn and Umass programs have been at the bottom of CF for a number of years now.

What people might not realize is the renaissance that is taking place in BC athletics. Boston College is a wealthy school and it is making a huge investment in athletics. Take a stroll across campus sometime. You will see a new football IPF that is among the BEST of such facilities in all of college football. New baseball/softball complexes have been built as well as an IPF dedicated to baseball and softball. When it is completed, BC will have THREE indoor practice facilities - the Fish Center for FB, the "Bubble" - inflated for the winter months for soccer, lacrosse, etc, and the Pete Frates Center (finished this summer) for baseball/softball. On top of this, BC just finished a new $200M student recreation center which will house a number of olympic sports.

Last year, BC launched a $150M athletics - only fundraising drive. Reportedly, over $100M has already been raised to meet this goal. Next up, a new MBB/WBB dedicated practice facility.

After last season, BC put significantly more $$'s into the FB coaching staff and hired a whole new coaching staff. I would not be shocked if after the season we saw something similar in MBB.

I think in the coming seasons we will see the fruits of these investments. BC is already a solid ACC FB program. They will be even better in the coming years. I expect BB will have a similar trajectory.

Again, I do wonder why this topic even comes up. I do think people get mixed up with the "Catholic" identity here. People seem to invariably compare BC to the Catholic BB schools when, in fact, they are in may ways dissimilar. While they may all be "Catholic" institutions, they all have differing views on athletics. I have great respect for the Catholic BB schools (my daughter is a proud alum of G'town) but BC's philosophy as it relates to athletics is much more in line with Notre Dame as opposed to the Catholic BB schools.

BB will get better in the coming years. The $$'s are there to make this happen.

Again, I think this thread is baffling.

BC Football is better than UMass Football. Happy?

I made no mention of UMass being a better choice for the Big East for any reason because I think neither will ever happen.

I mentioned that, very specifically, BC basketball doesn't get great support in terms of fans. The ACC averages just under 11,000 in attendance last year. BC is down at 5300. The Big East average 10,000. (source: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf)

So yeah, thanks for mentioning that people weren't talking about football in a thread specifically about basketball and acting all condescending about it. We all know there's literally 0 chance BC would leave the ACC, we were just listing out why the non-football conference of Big East also wouldn't be interested in it.

(02-21-2020 12:28 PM)e-parade Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 02:08 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  As a BC alum and fan, I am absolutely mystified by this thread.

BC would have no interest whatsoever in ever leaving the ACC for BB or any other sport so this talk is waste of air.

Yes, BC's BB program has struggled in recent years - though this year they sit in the middle of the pack in the ACC. BC's FB program has certainly pulled its weight int the ACC - in 15 seasons of ACC play, making bowl games in 12 of those seasons and playing in two ACCCG's. Those in the ACC know that BCFB is seldom an easy opponent.

I love how the Umass and UConn fans jump on this conversation as it applies to BB. No mention of FB, of course, as BC has crushed their teams whenever they have played BC. Both the UConn and Umass programs have been at the bottom of CF for a number of years now.

What people might not realize is the renaissance that is taking place in BC athletics. Boston College is a wealthy school and it is making a huge investment in athletics. Take a stroll across campus sometime. You will see a new football IPF that is among the BEST of such facilities in all of college football. New baseball/softball complexes have been built as well as an IPF dedicated to baseball and softball. When it is completed, BC will have THREE indoor practice facilities - the Fish Center for FB, the "Bubble" - inflated for the winter months for soccer, lacrosse, etc, and the Pete Frates Center (finished this summer) for baseball/softball. On top of this, BC just finished a new $200M student recreation center which will house a number of olympic sports.

Last year, BC launched a $150M athletics - only fundraising drive. Reportedly, over $100M has already been raised to meet this goal. Next up, a new MBB/WBB dedicated practice facility.

After last season, BC put significantly more $$'s into the FB coaching staff and hired a whole new coaching staff. I would not be shocked if after the season we saw something similar in MBB.

I think in the coming seasons we will see the fruits of these investments. BC is already a solid ACC FB program. They will be even better in the coming years. I expect BB will have a similar trajectory.

Again, I do wonder why this topic even comes up. I do think people get mixed up with the "Catholic" identity here. People seem to invariably compare BC to the Catholic BB schools when, in fact, they are in may ways dissimilar. While they may all be "Catholic" institutions, they all have differing views on athletics. I have great respect for the Catholic BB schools (my daughter is a proud alum of G'town) but BC's philosophy as it relates to athletics is much more in line with Notre Dame as opposed to the Catholic BB schools.

BB will get better in the coming years. The $$'s are there to make this happen.

Again, I think this thread is baffling.

BC Football is better than UMass Football. Happy?

I made no mention of UMass being a better choice for the Big East for any reason because I think neither will ever happen.

I mentioned that, very specifically, BC basketball doesn't get great support in terms of fans. The ACC averages just under 11,000 in attendance last year. BC is down at 5300. The Big East average 10,000. (source: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf)

So yeah, thanks for mentioning that people weren't talking about football in a thread specifically about basketball and acting all condescending about it. We all know there's literally 0 chance BC would leave the ACC, we were just listing out why the non-football conference of Big East also wouldn't be interested in it.

So, the BE wouldn't be interested in something BC would also have absolutely no interest in. Well, sure seems like a great basis to discuss such a topic right there

Also, your use of the attendance data point you linked to form your opinion that BC doesn't get great support in terms of fans for MBB is not a good one. While the data is of course accurate, you have not applied the necessary sensitivity analysis to determine if the data truly supports your view.

Here is the issue -

You compared BC's 2019 attendance to the ACC aggregate. Do you realize that Conte Forum is the 13th smallest arena out of the 15 ACC teams - by a country mile in many instances? Of course the numbers are gonna be skewed when you take into account that BC's max capacity is 8,606. That compares to 33,000 for SU; 22,090 to L'vlle, 21,750 to UNC, 19,557 for NC state...and so on. Even if BC sold out the arena for every game, they would never compare well to the aggregate because the other teams in the Conference can put so many more fans into their places.

When you compare BC's attendance, to those ACC schools with similar size arenas - GT with an 8,600 capacity, and Miami with a 7,972 capacity - the attendance numbers are similar when you compare each school's home attendance against visiting ACC teams (which is the only true apples-to-apples comparison as each school plays wildly different non conference schedules that have significantly different fan appeal). When you compare BC, GT and Miami home ACC attendance for THIS season to date. The numbers are very similar.

BC: 6,354 average attendance through 7 Conference games (74% of capacity)
Miami: 6,051 average attendance through 8 Conference games (76% of capacity)
GT: 6,411 average attendance through 7 Conference games (75% of capacity)

As the data shows, attendance for all three schools is remarkably consistent this year based on (1) the size of their arena and (2) their respective team performances to date - GT is 7-8 in Conference play to date, while BC is 7-9 and Miami is 6-10.

These factors determine fan interest in a program year-to-year more than anything else, IMO. Given the mediocre years each team is having - fan attendance is very consistent and, in fact, one might say solid given the years they are having.

When each team improves, their numbers will go up and I have no doubt there will be more sellouts at each place. As I said before, even that, however, will come nowhere near erasing the disparity to the Conference aggregate given the huge differences in arena size.

Yes the Big East would accept BC if they decided to leave the ACC as the Presidents of the Big East schools have a close connection to the BC President. Also, the east coast Big East schools likely don't want anymore Midwest schools - it would be easier to for their athletes and fans to travel to Boston vs. St Louis or wherever. Plus there is a better opportunity for media attention in Boston vs. any Midwest city. If BC ever decided that football was too risky, violent or expensive to continue, then it may happen.

Would BC basketball fare better in the Big East than the ACC - obviously we don't know but it seems obvious that Northeast recruits would rather play teams in the Northeast close to home than travel to the ACC schools. Playing 2x per year in New York is a big deal and Philly & DC are great too. Plus if BC focused all resources on basketball they could easily be a powerhouse in the sport.