(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

In case it isn't clear to some of you, Trump disagreed with the length of the sentence, not the conviction.

For perspective, 4 of the lat 7 Illinois governors have done time for corruption in various forms. Blago did roughly as much time as the other three combined.

I still wonder if this is going to turn out to be some kind of plea bargain deal to get evidence about the Chicago machine.

(02-19-2020 01:47 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

In case it isn't clear to some of you, Trump disagreed with the length of the sentence, not the conviction.

ah, ok then. I disagree with him. Dude should have to serve all of his time, but he should be able to vote after he gets out.

(02-19-2020 01:51 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  For perspective, 4 of the lat 7 Illinois governors have done time for corruption in various forms. Blago did roughly as much time as the other three combined.

I still wonder if this is going to turn out to be some kind of plea bargain deal to get evidence about the Chicago machine.

uh oh political motivation? the plot thickens.

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

There is a huge difference between clemency (which was granted) and a pardon (which was not).

And, even when Blago was sentenced, there was a great deal of discussion about the severity of the sentence (15 years, I think), which was on the very far side of the spectrum. Iirc, both Dick Durbin and Eric Holder had asked for a shortening of this sentence,

Couple that action today with the other clemencies announced, and they all form a fairly cohesive picture. For example, he commuted the 20 year sentence to the 12 served for Crystal Munoz, who got the 2 dimes for simply drawing a map.

Additionally, there were specifically other actions announced concurrently that granted pardons. As noted, Blago was not a recipient of this at all.

Honestly, I think the 8 served by Blago is sufficient. I take it others disagree.

(02-19-2020 01:51 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:47 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

In case it isn't clear to some of you, Trump disagreed with the length of the sentence, not the conviction.

ah, ok then. I disagree with him. Dude should have to serve all of his time, but he should be able to vote after he gets out.

I am sure you would be predisposed to disagree with anything that Trump had a signature in, tbh.

8 years for Blago sounds fairly sufficient to me.

Do you disagree with the drug trafficking conspirator that served 12 of 20 as well before today's clemency action?

(02-19-2020 02:01 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:51 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:47 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

In case it isn't clear to some of you, Trump disagreed with the length of the sentence, not the conviction.

ah, ok then. I disagree with him. Dude should have to serve all of his time, but he should be able to vote after he gets out.

I am sure you would be predisposed to disagree with anything that Trump had a signature in, tbh.

8 years for Blago sounds fairly sufficient to me.

Do you disagree with the drug trafficking conspirator that served 12 of 20 as well before today's clemency action?

don't know anything about the drug trafficking conspirator

(02-19-2020 12:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:10 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Trump shouldn't be asking DOJ to investigate anyone. He appoints the AG, DAG, US Attorneys, the head of the FBI and DEA, and various other top DOJ officials. He has the capacity to fire any of those appointees. But the President is not supposed to be able to order them to conduct investigations or stop investigations. There is supposed to be an arms-length relationship. DOJ should conduct its investigations and prosecutions by following the facts and applying the law.

You mean, like Comey did in deciding not to prosecute Hillary, when if I had done exactly what she did, I'd have gotten 20 to 40 in Leavenworth? And don't give me the tired "but.. but..." about how Colin Powell and Conde Rice did the same thing. No, they didn't.

Or do you mean like the whole dossier/FISA court misadventure? Or Strzok and Page and "Andy's" insurance policy?

How do you mean, following the facts and applying the law?

My comment was that the President should not control DOJ's investigations, prosecutions, or sentencing recommendations. The DOJ isn't always perfect, but if it is at arms-length then it at least exercises some independence. That was my only point and I'm not going to let you or OO drag me into a completely different discussion, which is of course what you both immediately tried to do.

(02-19-2020 01:47 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

In case it isn't clear to some of you, Trump disagreed with the length of the sentence, not the conviction.

Does Trump know that federal judges and Congress (who passed the laws) have more to do with sentence length than the DOJ?

(02-19-2020 02:30 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:47 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:30 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Is he being coy, or does he not understand that conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime even if you don't pull it off successfully?

C'mon, if the end goal wasn't reached, how can it be a crime? You ever heard of someone being charged with attempted murder???

Ridiculous!

The embarrassment from failure must be punishment enough.

In case it isn't clear to some of you, Trump disagreed with the length of the sentence, not the conviction.

Does Trump know that federal judges and Congress (who passed the laws) have more to do with sentence length than the DOJ?

So all the hoopla about DOJ influence in Stone's sentencing is overblown?

Sentencing recommendations carry significant weight in the sentence handed down.

(02-19-2020 02:36 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  So all the hoopla about DOJ influence in Stone's sentencing is overblown?

Sentencing recommendations carry significant weight in the sentence handed down.

I would argue that the hoopla isn't about DOJ's sentencing recommendation in the Stone case, it is about DOJ's complete reversal of its recommendation after the President tweeted about it. If the only recommendation had been the ultimate recommendation, some people might have thought it to be too short but I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

(02-19-2020 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

That kind of crap is totally disgusting.

(02-19-2020 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:36 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  So all the hoopla about DOJ influence in Stone's sentencing is overblown?

Sentencing recommendations carry significant weight in the sentence handed down.

I would argue that the hoopla isn't about DOJ's sentencing recommendation in the Stone case, it is about DOJ's complete reversal of its recommendation after the President tweeted about it. If the only recommendation had been the ultimate recommendation, some people might have thought it to be too short but I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

True. But if sentencing recommendations didn't carry much weight there'd be nothing to get alarmed about.

(02-19-2020 03:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:36 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  So all the hoopla about DOJ influence in Stone's sentencing is overblown?
Sentencing recommendations carry significant weight in the sentence handed down.

I would argue that the hoopla isn't about DOJ's sentencing recommendation in the Stone case, it is about DOJ's complete reversal of its recommendation after the President tweeted about it. If the only recommendation had been the ultimate recommendation, some people might have thought it to be too short but I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

True. But if sentencing recommendations didn't carry much weight there'd be nothing to get alarmed about.

I'd argue that the much bigger issue is the apparent jury--and possible judicial--misconduct. If the allegations are true, and they seem to be pretty well supported, I think you've probably got a mistrial and possibly even dismissal with prejudice.

(02-19-2020 03:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

That kind of crap is totally disgusting.

I thought it was a pretty clever pun, particularly since it wasn't actually directed at an individual and the furor wasn't even expressed by Trump, but instead by the media and democrats. But I'll take lectures from you about disgusting crap as soon as you retract your various vile statements about Kamala Harris.

(02-19-2020 02:28 PM)mrbig Wrote:  That was my only point and I'm not going to let you or OO drag me into a completely different discussion, which is of course what you both immediately tried to do.

Not so.

No to ICE

Interesting problem(s) facing this community, because of a new California law.

"A new law in California outlawing private prisons will cost the city $1.5 million a year in taxes and other fees paid by the prison corporation, the GEO Group, unless the company can convert the two facilities it has operated there into immigration detention centers"

"He said the facilities would employ more than 300 people, with entry-level officers making about $96,866, compared to the $34,474 paid to entry-level prison employees. The city would receive $511,000 in community-impact payments from the company, he said."

(02-19-2020 04:08 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

That kind of crap is totally disgusting.

I thought it was a pretty clever pun,

It wasn't.

Quote:particularly since it wasn't actually directed at an individual and the furor wasn't even expressed by Trump, but instead by the media and democrats. But I'll take lectures from you about disgusting crap as soon as you retract your various vile statements about Kamala Harris.

As soon as Kamala Harris quits being a vile person, I will happily retract them.

(02-20-2020 10:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 04:08 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I doubt their would have been much fuhrer ... I mean furor ... about it.

That kind of crap is totally disgusting.

I thought it was a pretty clever pun,

It wasn't.

Quote:particularly since it wasn't actually directed at an individual and the furor wasn't even expressed by Trump, but instead by the media and democrats. But I'll take lectures from you about disgusting crap as soon as you retract your various vile statements about Kamala Harris.

As soon as Kamala Harris quits being a vile person, I will happily retract them.

So where's the line for you with regards to name calling? Is it the names someone is called or the quality of their character?