(01-13-2020 08:41 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

Thank you so much! This is exactly my point with everything Carey vs Hammock related. It's gonna take some time to transition from gritty chain movers to bonafide playmakers.

This is stupid.

Carey had more success playing the Power 5 than any coach in the history of the conference lol

(01-13-2020 10:27 AM)7 Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 08:41 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

Thank you so much! This is exactly my point with everything Carey vs Hammock related. It's gonna take some time to transition from gritty chain movers to bonafide playmakers.

This is stupid.

Carey had more success playing the Power 5 than any coach in the history of the conference lol

2-9?

(01-13-2020 10:48 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:27 AM)7 Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 08:41 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

Thank you so much! This is exactly my point with everything Carey vs Hammock related. It's gonna take some time to transition from gritty chain movers to bonafide playmakers.

This is stupid.

Carey had more success playing the Power 5 than any coach in the history of the conference lol

2-9?

5-2 vs B1G. One loss was by 7 to #1 Ohio St. Rod Carey is the model all G5 coaches copy when pioneering Big Ten upsets.

Depth move. Don't hate it. Welcome young man!!

Go Huskies!!!

(01-13-2020 11:02 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:48 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:27 AM)7 Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 08:41 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

Thank you so much! This is exactly my point with everything Carey vs Hammock related. It's gonna take some time to transition from gritty chain movers to bonafide playmakers.

This is stupid.

Carey had more success playing the Power 5 than any coach in the history of the conference lol

2-9?

5-2 vs B1G. One loss was by 7 to #1 Ohio St. Rod Carey is the model all G5 coaches copy when pioneering Big Ten upsets.

After Lynch left Carey went 2-8 vs P5s. Beat 2 sub .500 teams in Neb and NU. Averaged 15 points a game in those 8 losses and were outscored by 125 points. The 8 losses were to teams with a combined record of 59-44. So basically 7-5 teams. That sideways passing offense doesn't work vs fast, athletic teams. This is why I say he built his teams to win MAC games. When he played P5 teams all he tried to do was keep the games somewhat close by not risking turn overs or big negative plays. This isn't some new, crazy strategy. Pretty basic coach think. Which is exactly what Carey was and is. Old school coaching.

In addition to P5 struggles, Carey went 2-8 vs OOC G5. Both wins were vs UNLV who was a combined 5-20 those seasons. If 4-16 is anyone's role model for winning outside of your conference I'd suggest they reassess.

39-10 in mac play
5-16 out of mac play.(BYU is the other win)

I hate for this thread to turn to yet another one of “those” conversations. But just my 2 cents. My guess is Childers leaving the team wasn’t necessarily anticipated during the season/ recruiting cycle. The QB transfer coming in isn’t what you or I would hope for on paper or video. But for depth and depth only to get someone I assume has a good head on his shoulders, very little expectation of meaningful playing time and we are committed to for 1 year only - it works for me. If we get to him on the depth chart the season is probably already lost and I’d rather take it on the chin and preserve the new kids redshirt.

As for good ol RC. What’s the infatuation with him on this board ? I’m kind of caught in between. He was fine as a coach and had his ups/downs for sure. IMO he wasn’t going to elevate us as a program. Again, IMO he was handed a good roster and did a decent job of turning out wins with it BUT think there is a reason he wasn’t poached as quickly as those before him. The jury is definitely still out on hammock but at least he wants to be here. If Carey was fired to bring hammock in, Id get it. He chose to leave and isn’t coming back so why not support the guy that’s here ?

(01-13-2020 04:43 PM)DPD Wrote:  I hate for this thread to turn to yet another one of “those” conversations. But just my 2 cents. My guess is Childers leaving the team wasn’t necessarily anticipated during the season/ recruiting cycle. The QB transfer coming in isn’t what you or I would hope for on paper or video. But for depth and depth only to get someone I assume has a good head on his shoulders, very little expectation of meaningful playing time and we are committed to for 1 year only - it works for me. If we get to him on the depth chart the season is probably already lost and I’d rather take it on the chin and preserve the new kids redshirt.

As for good ol RC. What’s the infatuation with him on this board ? I’m kind of caught in between. He was fine as a coach and had his ups/downs for sure. IMO he wasn’t going to elevate us as a program. Again, IMO he was handed a good roster and did a decent job of Turing our wins with it BUT think there is a reason he wasn’t poached as quickly as those before him. The jury is definitely still out on hammock but at least he wants to be here. If Carey was fired to bring hammock in, Id get it. He chose to leave and isn’t coming back so why not support the guy that’s here ?

The Carey fuss is much more about inter-poster battles and less about Carey. Rod was a decent MAC coach. Some people lose sight of what level football the MAC is. You don't accumulate his wins, 2 championships and a promotion without being at least decent. But just as you would evaluate a decent MAC player you have to keep it in perspective. If Rod was paid 2 million/season he's bad. He was paid MAC coach money. He gave us MAC coach results.

(01-13-2020 04:59 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 04:43 PM)DPD Wrote:  I hate for this thread to turn to yet another one of “those” conversations. But just my 2 cents. My guess is Childers leaving the team wasn’t necessarily anticipated during the season/ recruiting cycle. The QB transfer coming in isn’t what you or I would hope for on paper or video. But for depth and depth only to get someone I assume has a good head on his shoulders, very little expectation of meaningful playing time and we are committed to for 1 year only - it works for me. If we get to him on the depth chart the season is probably already lost and I’d rather take it on the chin and preserve the new kids redshirt.

As for good ol RC. What’s the infatuation with him on this board ? I’m kind of caught in between. He was fine as a coach and had his ups/downs for sure. IMO he wasn’t going to elevate us as a program. Again, IMO he was handed a good roster and did a decent job of Turing our wins with it BUT think there is a reason he wasn’t poached as quickly as those before him. The jury is definitely still out on hammock but at least he wants to be here. If Carey was fired to bring hammock in, Id get it. He chose to leave and isn’t coming back so why not support the guy that’s here ?

The Carey fuss is much more about inter-poster battles and less about Carey. Rod was a decent MAC coach. Some people lose sight of what level football the MAC is. You don't accumulate his wins, 2 championships and a promotion without being at least decent. But just as you would evaluate a decent MAC player you have to keep it in perspective. If Rod was paid 2 million/season he's bad. He was paid MAC coach money. He gave us MAC coach results.

True again! I concur. I liked Rod and am thankful for keeping the flame burning.

Hammock was brought in to shake things up and get us to the next level. That includes different types of players and that's exactly what we are getting.

As for this kid, he's just a clipboard holder. Bowers is our guy until Fletcher is ready to start.

(01-13-2020 04:43 PM)DPD Wrote:  I hate for this thread to turn to yet another one of “those” conversations. But just my 2 cents. My guess is Childers leaving the team wasn’t necessarily anticipated during the season/ recruiting cycle. The QB transfer coming in isn’t what you or I would hope for on paper or video. But for depth and depth only to get someone I assume has a good head on his shoulders, very little expectation of meaningful playing time and we are committed to for 1 year only - it works for me. If we get to him on the depth chart the season is probably already lost and I’d rather take it on the chin and preserve the new kids redshirt.

As for good ol RC. What’s the infatuation with him on this board ? I’m kind of caught in between. He was fine as a coach and had his ups/downs for sure. IMO he wasn’t going to elevate us as a program. Again, IMO he was handed a good roster and did a decent job of Turing our wins with it BUT think there is a reason he wasn’t poached as quickly as those before him. The jury is definitely still out on hammock but at least he wants to be here. If Carey was fired to bring hammock in, Id get it. He chose to leave and isn’t coming back so why not support the guy that’s here ?

+2 OMG, logic, reason, unbiased, and well-thought comments!

1) You're right in saying RC had his ups/downs
2) As evidenced by his bowl record, he did not "elevate" the program.
3) He did inherit a very good roster but his recruiting classes lacked talent and depth.
4) IF he was as good as his undying faithful believe, he would have been poached
5) He did choose to leave
6) The fact that there as many happy he's gone as those who continue to pine for the Rod is a statement itself.
7) The jury is still out on Hammock
8) You're right in stating that Hammock wants to be here and in believing he wants to succeed. Fingers crossed, hope he does.
9) As for the QB transfer, it is a one-year deal; less costly than a recruiting mistake in terms of simply adding depth or possibly stumbling on a diamond in the rough. Sometimes a walk-on becomes a positive addition, how far is the gap between a walk-on and a scholarship athlete at a successful FCS program? The answer is as debatable as whether someone should have been labeled a two, three or four-star recruit. Let's see what happens --- for just one year.
Go Huskies!!

We digress from the original post..If the Carey lovers and haters want to argue do it with a separate post that I can skip
Enough already

(01-12-2020 08:53 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:07 AM)Jb 94 Wrote:  

(01-10-2020 09:15 PM)StevenNIU Wrote:  

(01-09-2020 07:30 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  Desperation for depth at QB? Hoping we won’t need him. Maybe they want to Redshirt Dustin Fletcher.....

I would think that they will almost certainly red shirt Fletcher. Give him a year to get stronger and learn the system and then have a potential 4 year starter after Bowers moves on.

I will preface this comment, and I will be very cautious towards the sensitive of other posters..I do not want to be put in time out, or increase my negative rating with my Huskie brothers.


With that last comment,put your weapons down, and riddle me this regarding our transfer pick up to date. I do not profess, to know anything about the safety and qb we poached..They can end up being great, medium, or horrible..not my place to speculate.

" The Board" as a whole was very gregarious, optimistic about the new hire taking us to the " Next Level"..since I am not part of the cool click, I never knew what that meant. Do not want to speak for Y ' all but I imagine in your estimate the next level was not 3rd string Houaton Baptist and CC in Canada.


Just so this post is not misconstrued....this is not a negative take on Norhern transfers.or Hammock. It is a question to the posters, who felt we were going to " the next level"....if I offended anyone, apologize in advance..not a judgement on the kids..a question for the "next level peops" who implied there would be an upgrade regarding recruiting, and transfer pedigree

There’s already been an upgrade on recruitment in my opinion with the type of players that are signing and entertaining NIU football,but it’s also too soon to grade.The fact that we recruited a stud QB in Fletcher is proof in better times to come( again, time will tell). I’m not sure about this 5th year guy. We’ll see if this staff sees something in this player that we don’t know. Taking a program to the next level take a little but more than one recruiting class. This is Hammocks first. The last class was 90% Carey kids. Asking for next level results in this short stint is unrealistic. Have you ever built anything? Building for next level doesn’t work like that in any endeavor....

My post had absolutely nothing to do with recruiting at all..but thanks for your opinion on Hammock's recruiting..my post was about the quality of who Hammock was going after at the transfer level this year..not a negative about the kids..heard about the next level..whether the transfer kids turn out to be the nex level time will judge..I can judge Hammock was a bottom feeders on where he poached from

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

How did coach Carey seep into this thread?? Always like talking about HOT ROD, but what did he have to do with my post??...

(01-13-2020 04:59 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 04:43 PM)DPD Wrote:  I hate for this thread to turn to yet another one of “those” conversations. But just my 2 cents. My guess is Childers leaving the team wasn’t necessarily anticipated during the season/ recruiting cycle. The QB transfer coming in isn’t what you or I would hope for on paper or video. But for depth and depth only to get someone I assume has a good head on his shoulders, very little expectation of meaningful playing time and we are committed to for 1 year only - it works for me. If we get to him on the depth chart the season is probably already lost and I’d rather take it on the chin and preserve the new kids redshirt.

As for good ol RC. What’s the infatuation with him on this board ? I’m kind of caught in between. He was fine as a coach and had his ups/downs for sure. IMO he wasn’t going to elevate us as a program. Again, IMO he was handed a good roster and did a decent job of Turing our wins with it BUT think there is a reason he wasn’t poached as quickly as those before him. The jury is definitely still out on hammock but at least he wants to be here. If Carey was fired to bring hammock in, Id get it. He chose to leave and isn’t coming back so why not support the guy that’s here ?

The Carey fuss is much more about inter-poster battles and less about Carey. Rod was a decent MAC coach. Some people lose sight of what level football the MAC is. You don't accumulate his wins, 2 championships and a promotion without being at least decent. But just as you would evaluate a decent MAC player you have to keep it in perspective. If Rod was paid 2 million/season he's bad. He was paid MAC coach money. He gave us MAC coach results.

If we get " MAC results" from Hammock, I will be content..and can disappear...about how long for these " MAC results"..fingers and toes crossed

(01-13-2020 07:12 PM)Jb 94 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

How did coach Carey seep into this thread?? Always like talking about HOT ROD, but what did he have to do with my post??...

The term getting to the "next level" implies you need to improve on the level you are currently at. That would be Carey's level.

The board needs to just deal with the fact that Carey will be a relevant part of discussions here for a season or two. If not just to learn from his mistakes or analyze his success/failures. Massive success in conference. Big struggles OOC. Why? Hammock is suggesting he will have success OOC. How? If people can put aside these little personal battles and just discuss the X's & O's of the last 5 years it may help reveal some keys to this "next level". And next level is what Hammock is promoting, not the posters here. What will change compared to the last 5 years? Recruiting? He is recruiting at the same level as Carey(3-5th in MAC). So much of the board says ratings don't matter anyway. That's a case where discussing Carey is relevant to Hammock. Same level recruits with different results....how?

(01-14-2020 09:35 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 07:12 PM)Jb 94 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

How did coach Carey seep into this thread?? Always like talking about HOT ROD, but what did he have to do with my post??...

The term getting to the "next level" implies you need to improve on the level you are currently at. That would be Carey's level.

The board needs to just deal with the fact that Carey will be a relevant part of discussions here for a season or two. If not just to learn from his mistakes or analyze his success/failures. Massive success in conference. Big struggles OOC. Why? Hammock is suggesting he will have success OOC. How? If people can put aside these little personal battles and just discuss the X's & O's of the last 5 years it may help reveal some keys to this "next level". And next level is what Hammock is promoting, not the posters here. What will change compared to the last 5 years? Recruiting? He is recruiting at the same level as Carey(3-5th in MAC). So much of the board says ratings don't matter anyway. That's a case where discussing Carey is relevant to Hammock. Same level recruits with different results....how?

Yea I mean, former coaches are never off the table as a topic.

It would be a miracle for a MAC team to get to the next level, unless you mean getting the Access Bowl which is at least possible if you have a good team. I was okay with how we were doing with Carey except I wanted to at least provide some competition in a bowl game. Hopefully we can get back to winning the MAC and getting the occasional win OOC against somebody decent.

(01-14-2020 11:11 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 09:35 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 07:12 PM)Jb 94 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

How did coach Carey seep into this thread?? Always like talking about HOT ROD, but what did he have to do with my post??...

The term getting to the "next level" implies you need to improve on the level you are currently at. That would be Carey's level.

The board needs to just deal with the fact that Carey will be a relevant part of discussions here for a season or two. If not just to learn from his mistakes or analyze his success/failures. Massive success in conference. Big struggles OOC. Why? Hammock is suggesting he will have success OOC. How? If people can put aside these little personal battles and just discuss the X's & O's of the last 5 years it may help reveal some keys to this "next level". And next level is what Hammock is promoting, not the posters here. What will change compared to the last 5 years? Recruiting? He is recruiting at the same level as Carey(3-5th in MAC). So much of the board says ratings don't matter anyway. That's a case where discussing Carey is relevant to Hammock. Same level recruits with different results....how?

Yea I mean, former coaches are never off the table as a topic.

It would be a miracle for a MAC team to get to the next level, unless you mean getting the Access Bowl which is at least possible if you have a good team. I was okay with how we were doing with Carey except I wanted to at least provide some competition in a bowl game. Hopefully we can get back to winning the MAC and getting the occasional win OOC against somebody decent.

Agreed. I’m not sure what exactly “the next level” is for a Mac team Either As there are inherent restrains. Consistently competing for the Mac championship won’t necessarily do it as we’ve seen. I believe It has to be done in tandem with A Consistent increase in student/fan involvement and attendance growth though I understand that in itself could be less likely than a return to the orange bowl. A lot of the excitement for hammock I believe came from the perception that he could drive that involvement and outreach better than his predecessor.

As a half hearted attempt to stay on topic. Welcome to NIU Andrew!

(01-13-2020 11:02 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:48 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:27 AM)7 Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 08:41 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

Thank you so much! This is exactly my point with everything Carey vs Hammock related. It's gonna take some time to transition from gritty chain movers to bonafide playmakers.

This is stupid.

Carey had more success playing the Power 5 than any coach in the history of the conference lol

2-9?

5-2 vs B1G. One loss was by 7 to #1 Ohio St. Rod Carey is the model all G5 coaches copy when pioneering Big Ten upsets.

The only P5 wins(4) I see are Iowa/Purdue(2013),
Northwestern(2014), Nebraska(2017)
Losses to FSU(2012, 2018), Arkansas(2014),
OSU(2015), BC(2015,2017), Duke(2017), Iowa(2018),
Utah(2018).
No P5 opponents in 2016.
If that is correct, Amstutz had more P5 wins with:
Minnesota(2001), Pitt(2003), Kansas(2006),
Iowa St(2007), Michigan(2008).

(01-14-2020 11:11 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 09:35 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 07:12 PM)Jb 94 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  It’s a mentality as much as anything. Carey built his teams to win the MAC. Hammock is trying to do more than win the MAC. You need playmakers at QB to do that. Bowers and Fletcher are far greater suited to do that than any QB Carey got here.

How did coach Carey seep into this thread?? Always like talking about HOT ROD, but what did he have to do with my post??...

The term getting to the "next level" implies you need to improve on the level you are currently at. That would be Carey's level.

The board needs to just deal with the fact that Carey will be a relevant part of discussions here for a season or two. If not just to learn from his mistakes or analyze his success/failures. Massive success in conference. Big struggles OOC. Why? Hammock is suggesting he will have success OOC. How? If people can put aside these little personal battles and just discuss the X's & O's of the last 5 years it may help reveal some keys to this "next level". And next level is what Hammock is promoting, not the posters here. What will change compared to the last 5 years? Recruiting? He is recruiting at the same level as Carey(3-5th in MAC). So much of the board says ratings don't matter anyway. That's a case where discussing Carey is relevant to Hammock. Same level recruits with different results....how?

Yea I mean, former coaches are never off the table as a topic.

It would be a miracle for a MAC team to get to the next level, unless you mean getting the Access Bowl which is at least possible if you have a good team. I was okay with how we were doing with Carey except I wanted to at least provide some competition in a bowl game. Hopefully we can get back to winning the MAC and getting the occasional win OOC against somebody decent.

Absolutely. Next level is a pipe dream for Mac teams. Especially hard for NIU because of the money game losses. I don’t want to squash peoples dreams, but between NIU becoming “next level” or NIU having to fold its football program, the latter is more likely. Neither will likely happen. But give me a QB and an offense that can keep almost every game winnable and that is my next level. Be in contention until the last week while winning it with some regularity. Success.

So I don’t sound like Oscar the grouch, It is possible to have an Appalachian State type season. Beat two .500 or worse P5s and run the table on an easy schedule.(SOS was 100th). That’s just how we did it in 2012/13. That’s how WMU did it in 16. That’s the blessing and curse of sunbelt and mac teams. It’s also our most realistic best scenario.