See the poll.

I really don’t like the SEC or ESPN, so a Big Ten invite with 6-10 of the most valuable commodities in the ACC is preferable. Hopefully FSU will still regularly play those same ACC schools yearly rather than going to Northwestern or Iowa every other year.

I voted yes (FSU to SEC), but with a lot more ambivalence than I would have ever imagined a few years ago.

NC State would be better off in a conference without Duke and UNC. That could be the SEC or B10, however we will never be competitive in football in the SEC. As a university NC State is modeled on Purdue, but the fan base is southern not midwestern.

(01-13-2020 12:10 PM)Statefan Wrote:  NC State would be better off in a conference without Duke and UNC. That could be the SEC or B10, however we will never be competitive in football in the SEC. As a university NC State is modeled on Purdue, but the fan base is southern not midwestern.

I've thought that for a long time. But I'm not sure NC State would be any more competitive in an 8 team B1G East than an 8 Team SEC East.

B1G: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers

or

SEC: Georgia, Florida, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt

In any case, State isn't really any more competitive in the current ACC Atlantic than they would be in either the SEC or B1G. If the status quo holds, they just have less money than if they could snag an invite to one of the Big Dogs.

Any variation with SEC is fine.

Would do the B1G, but need other southern teams to make it work.

ACC as it exists today doesn't survive at a competitive level. So I would love to say no change, but that won't work in the long run.

(01-13-2020 02:19 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 12:10 PM)Statefan Wrote:  NC State would be better off in a conference without Duke and UNC. That could be the SEC or B10, however we will never be competitive in football in the SEC. As a university NC State is modeled on Purdue, but the fan base is southern not midwestern.

I've thought that for a long time. But I'm not sure NC State would be any more competitive in an 8 team B1G East than an 8 Team SEC East.

B1G: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers

or

SEC: Georgia, Florida, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt

In any case, State isn't really any more competitive in the current ACC Atlantic than they would be in either the SEC or B1G. If the status quo holds, they just have less money than if they could snag an invite to one of the Big Dogs.

But either way, State would have someone new to blame for their ineptitude.

(01-13-2020 03:27 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:19 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 12:10 PM)Statefan Wrote:  NC State would be better off in a conference without Duke and UNC. That could be the SEC or B10, however we will never be competitive in football in the SEC. As a university NC State is modeled on Purdue, but the fan base is southern not midwestern.

I've thought that for a long time. But I'm not sure NC State would be any more competitive in an 8 team B1G East than an 8 Team SEC East.

B1G: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers

or

SEC: Georgia, Florida, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt

In any case, State isn't really any more competitive in the current ACC Atlantic than they would be in either the SEC or B1G. If the status quo holds, they just have less money than if they could snag an invite to one of the Big Dogs.

But either way, State would have someone new to blame for their ineptitude.

Nah, they'll blame Chapel Hill for selling the black helicopters and anonymous vans to Tuscaloosa.

Why is the ACC worth $25m per member annually, but each individual member is worth $50-60m to another conference?

(01-13-2020 03:27 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:19 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 12:10 PM)Statefan Wrote:  NC State would be better off in a conference without Duke and UNC. That could be the SEC or B10, however we will never be competitive in football in the SEC. As a university NC State is modeled on Purdue, but the fan base is southern not midwestern.

I've thought that for a long time. But I'm not sure NC State would be any more competitive in an 8 team B1G East than an 8 Team SEC East.

B1G: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers

or

SEC: Georgia, Florida, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt

In any case, State isn't really any more competitive in the current ACC Atlantic than they would be in either the SEC or B1G. If the status quo holds, they just have less money than if they could snag an invite to one of the Big Dogs.

But either way, State would have someone new to blame for their ineptitude.

If my post sounded like I was knocking NC State, it wasn't my intent. What I was saying was that they fit just fine in that SEC division - only Georgia and Florida are clearly on a different level than State, and who knows whether being in the SEC would improve their ability to keep North Carolina talent at home. There's no reason why they wouldn't be just as capable as the other five teams in that division (including Va Tech).

I do think that the only way State and Tech get invited to a 16 team SEC is if the B1G snags UT and OU, taking them off the table for the SEC. Even so, it would require that The Mouse think those two schools are more valuable to them in the SEC than they are in the ACC. That may be a stretch.

8 team divisions are not going to happen.

(01-13-2020 04:37 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Why is the ACC worth $25m per member annually, but each individual member is worth $50-60m to another conference?

Just because the average value is $25M* doesn't mean that each team is worth that exact amount. Some teams are worth a lot more, some a lot less.

* Also keep in mind that just because ESPN is getting ACC rights for $25M per team doesn't mean that those rights are only worth that much; those rights could be worth a lot more on the open market - but that won't happen because it was negotiated away.

(01-13-2020 05:49 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:27 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:19 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 12:10 PM)Statefan Wrote:  NC State would be better off in a conference without Duke and UNC. That could be the SEC or B10, however we will never be competitive in football in the SEC. As a university NC State is modeled on Purdue, but the fan base is southern not midwestern.

I've thought that for a long time. But I'm not sure NC State would be any more competitive in an 8 team B1G East than an 8 Team SEC East.

B1G: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, NC State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers

or

SEC: Georgia, Florida, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt

In any case, State isn't really any more competitive in the current ACC Atlantic than they would be in either the SEC or B1G. If the status quo holds, they just have less money than if they could snag an invite to one of the Big Dogs.

But either way, State would have someone new to blame for their ineptitude.

If my post sounded like I was knocking NC State, it wasn't my intent. What I was saying was that they fit just fine in that SEC division - only Georgia and Florida are clearly on a different level than State, and who knows whether being in the SEC would improve their ability to keep North Carolina talent at home. There's no reason why they wouldn't be just as capable as the other five teams in , hat division (including Va Tech).

I do think that the only way State and Tech get invited to a 16 team SEC is if the B1G snags UT and OU, taking them off the table for the SEC. Even so, it would require that The Mouse think those two schools are more valuable to them in the SEC than they are in the ACC. That may be a stretch.

Two 10 team conferences in the east would better suit everybody:
1-BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Louisville, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Maryland, West Virginia
2-UVa, Carolina, State, Wake Forest, Duke, Clemson, South Carolina, GT, Florida State, Miami

The B1G could return to the original 10
The SEC: Fla, Ga, Tenn, Vandy, Miss St, Ole Miss, Ala, Aub, LSU, A&M
The PAC stays at 12
The Big 12 would be 12: ISU, NEB, Kansas, KSU, OU, OSU, Texas, Baylor, TCU, TT, Ark, Missouri
ND-ind in football, everything else in the B1G.

(01-13-2020 07:09 PM)Statefan Wrote:  8 team divisions are not going to happen.

So maybe the SEC goes big, and shuts out the B1G entirely by taking both OU and UT as well as Va Tech and NC State. Three divisions of six teams with a four team Conference Championship Tournament (and tell the NCAA to pound sand if they don't like it).

West: LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Missouri, Texas and Arkansas

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Tennessee and Vanderbilt

East: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Va Tech, NC State, and Kentucky

(Teams listed in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating)


That leaves the ACC with two six team divisions:

Atlantic: Miami, Louisville, Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse and Wake Forest

Coastal: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke and Virginia

You won't see ACC teams going to the SEC. ESPN already owns both. What you'll see is ESPN trying to get Big XII teams to move to the SEC and Fox trying to get ACC teams to move to the B1G.

(01-14-2020 08:37 AM)zibby Wrote:  You won't see ACC teams going to the SEC. ESPN already owns both. What you'll see is ESPN trying to get Big XII teams to move to the SEC and Fox trying to get ACC teams to move to the B1G.

I think ESPN wants to keep the ACC as a "buffer" conference between the SEC and Big Ten. For this reason they will somewhat strengthen (and enrich) the ACC, although probably not to a level fully equal to the SEC (little brother status remains).

(01-14-2020 08:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 08:37 AM)zibby Wrote:  You won't see ACC teams going to the SEC. ESPN already owns both. What you'll see is ESPN trying to get Big XII teams to move to the SEC and Fox trying to get ACC teams to move to the B1G.

I think ESPN wants to keep the ACC as a "buffer" conference between the SEC and Big Ten. For this reason they will somewhat strengthen (and enrich) the ACC, although probably not to a level fully equal to the SEC (little brother status remains).

The problem I have with that idea is that I can't see anybody the ACC could add that would strengthen them.

(01-14-2020 08:37 AM)zibby Wrote:  You won't see ACC teams going to the SEC. ESPN already owns both. What you'll see is ESPN trying to get Big XII teams to move to the SEC and Fox trying to get ACC teams to move to the B1G.

If the B1G were to invite Va Tech and NC State, would either of them be willing to go (assuming they could negotiate the GoR)?

(01-14-2020 10:28 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 08:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-14-2020 08:37 AM)zibby Wrote:  You won't see ACC teams going to the SEC. ESPN already owns both. What you'll see is ESPN trying to get Big XII teams to move to the SEC and Fox trying to get ACC teams to move to the B1G.

I think ESPN wants to keep the ACC as a "buffer" conference between the SEC and Big Ten. For this reason they will somewhat strengthen (and enrich) the ACC, although probably not to a level fully equal to the SEC (little brother status remains).

The problem I have with that idea is that I can't see anybody the ACC could add that would strengthen them.

You can't see Texas? Oklahoma? Notre Dame? what about WVU? All of those teams for sure strengthen ACC football - and revenue. I'd add TCU to that list as well, although confidence isn't as high.

Other possibilities include Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston - but ESPN would have to essentially overpay for them (in reality they'd be paying market rates for the games already under contract).

(01-14-2020 08:37 AM)zibby Wrote:  You won't see ACC teams going to the SEC. ESPN already owns both. What you'll see is ESPN trying to get Big XII teams to move to the SEC and Fox trying to get ACC teams to move to the B1G.

To the contrary. Being in an in house move means the GoR doesn't apply because the rights wouldn't change hands as part of realignment. Fuhrer Mickey just has to make more money when it's all said and done. That merely means not destroying an asset until you don't or nearly don't own it.