The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

A proactive AD wouldn’t wait. He’d take the heat from some donors and get rid of him.

The reality is Jones is definitely not going to be fired after this season. And I think we have a punchers chance to win the CUSAT and make the dance again this year (given how had CUSA is this year). But it’s definitely time for change regardless of how this season and the CUSAT plays out. We are every bit vcu’s equal and we need to start acting/performing like it. Consistent losses to vcu and b&m are too much to stomach.

(01-12-2020 01:31 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 06:17 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  It’s going to be a long season - although CUSA is so bad, I think we legitimately have a chance in the CUSAT. I appreciate JJ’s efforts, but it’s time for a change. This has been a rough year all around to be a Monarch fan. And Selig needs to pack his bags, too.

Welcome to the dark side lol

I’ll accept your apology.

Hey, long time no see! Haven't seen you in a game thread since the Richmond game! Shame you missed the three games in between! Look forward to seeing you during the next loss, er, game thread!

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:49 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:41 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Jeff Jones went to the NCAA's last year. Barring any major incidents, dude ain't getting fired this year.

This right here. You'll have to hope for a terrible season next year as well before they fir JJ.

Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

(01-12-2020 09:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 01:31 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 06:17 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  It’s going to be a long season - although CUSA is so bad, I think we legitimately have a chance in the CUSAT. I appreciate JJ’s efforts, but it’s time for a change. This has been a rough year all around to be a Monarch fan. And Selig needs to pack his bags, too.

Welcome to the dark side lol

I’ll accept your apology.

Hey, long time no see! Haven't seen you in a game thread since the Richmond game! Shame you missed the three games in between! Look forward to seeing you during the next loss, er, game thread!

You're not wrong.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:49 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:41 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Jeff Jones went to the NCAA's last year. Barring any major incidents, dude ain't getting fired this year.

This right here. You'll have to hope for a terrible season next year as well before they fir JJ.

Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:49 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:41 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Jeff Jones went to the NCAA's last year. Barring any major incidents, dude ain't getting fired this year.

This right here. You'll have to hope for a terrible season next year as well before they fir JJ.

Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Half the posters on the board could win a couple games coaching in CUSA this year lol

(01-12-2020 09:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 01:31 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 06:17 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  It’s going to be a long season - although CUSA is so bad, I think we legitimately have a chance in the CUSAT. I appreciate JJ’s efforts, but it’s time for a change. This has been a rough year all around to be a Monarch fan. And Selig needs to pack his bags, too.

Welcome to the dark side lol

I’ll accept your apology.

Hey, long time no see! Haven't seen you in a game thread since the Richmond game! Shame you missed the three games in between! Look forward to seeing you during the next loss, er, game thread!

Do you want me to sh.t on every one of these meaningless wins too? Because i totally can if that is what you really want.

Every win that keeps jones employed that much longer is a step back from a brighter future, that is truly how I view our current situation.

Sorry if you still think he’s “building something” here.......he f’ing isn’t.

Last year was the high water mark and it frankly wasn’t nearly high enough to matter or to deserve an extension.

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:49 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:41 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  Jeff Jones went to the NCAA's last year. Barring any major incidents, dude ain't getting fired this year.

This right here. You'll have to hope for a terrible season next year as well before they fir JJ.

Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:49 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  This right here. You'll have to hope for a terrible season next year as well before they fir JJ.

Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

Agreed. We are in a tough spot. Getting donor buy in to raise another round of funding for another new coach is probably not going to happen very soon. I am guessing we are looking at at least 2 more years after this season, by which time, JJ will probably be ready put another team in the tournament, and then start this whole perpetual cycle over again. Its so frustrating being in this situation.

(01-13-2020 11:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

Agreed. We are in a tough spot. Getting donor buy in to raise another round of funding for another new coach is probably not going to happen very soon. I am guessing we are looking at at least 2 more years after this season, by which time, JJ will probably be ready put another team in the tournament, and then start this whole perpetual cycle over again. Its so frustrating being in this situation.

My literal worst nightmare would be coming true.

Given the talent on this team though, I don’t see us winning a CUSA tourney championship in the next 2 years though.

Our “big” might be the least skilled group I’ve ever seen play for odu. Ugly stuff

(01-12-2020 11:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 01:31 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 06:17 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  It’s going to be a long season - although CUSA is so bad, I think we legitimately have a chance in the CUSAT. I appreciate JJ’s efforts, but it’s time for a change. This has been a rough year all around to be a Monarch fan. And Selig needs to pack his bags, too.

Welcome to the dark side lol

I’ll accept your apology.

Hey, long time no see! Haven't seen you in a game thread since the Richmond game! Shame you missed the three games in between! Look forward to seeing you during the next loss, er, game thread!

Do you want me to sh.t on every one of these meaningless wins too? Because i totally can if that is what you really want.

Every win that keeps jones employed that much longer is a step back from a brighter future, that is truly how I view our current situation.

Sorry if you still think he’s “building something” here.......he f’ing isn’t.

Last year was the high water mark and it frankly wasn’t nearly high enough to matter or to deserve an extension.

Honestly, yes. At least you'd be consistent if cynical (which obviously I have no issue with) instead of going radio silent when things are good/encouraging and dancing on graves about how right you were when things go south.

I don't have any illusions that's he building something any loftier than what he has, which is a program that generally wins and acquits itself well in CUSA but whose postseason fortunes will always turn on three days in a quarter-filled curtain-partitioned football stadium. But if I'm the AD, I'm also not going to fire him unless I have something better in mind that's obtainable. It's easy to say in retrospect that Keatts and Rhoades would have been better hires, but Keatts had the Louisville cloud over his head and neither would have stayed long (and this place would be a toilet fire if Rhoades left ODU for his dream job of VCU).

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

...keeping in mind that no coach in ODU history has ever won more than one game in the NCAA Tournament. For those who are counting, that's over four decades. Whatever the blueprint for success is, and has been, isn't working IMO.

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 03:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  Agreed. JJ could lose the rest of the season and still come back. He’s safe. But he better do a heck of a lot better next year or his seat should be very hot.

If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

As I was telling Razor, everything hinges on the CUSA tournament. And it's not even necessarily an indictment about how disappointing the conference has been since joining; it's as much a commentary about how top-heavy the at-large distribution has become over the past two decades. Unless you're in the P5, Big East, AAC, A10 or the MWC in a good season (or you're either Gonzaga or St. Mary's in the WCC), this is your fate: You can win your asses off, but unless you have some big-time OOC victories and *very* few losses, if you blow it in the conference semis, you'll be lucky to score a five seed in the NIT.

With where ODU is, and where CUSA is, you could find a coach that's better than JJ and recruits better than JJ and even wins more than JJ but might not have an appreciably better bottom line if North Texas or Marshall bites them in Round Rock or Frisco or wherever that football stadium is.

(01-13-2020 01:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 11:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 01:31 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 06:17 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  It’s going to be a long season - although CUSA is so bad, I think we legitimately have a chance in the CUSAT. I appreciate JJ’s efforts, but it’s time for a change. This has been a rough year all around to be a Monarch fan. And Selig needs to pack his bags, too.

Welcome to the dark side lol

I’ll accept your apology.

Hey, long time no see! Haven't seen you in a game thread since the Richmond game! Shame you missed the three games in between! Look forward to seeing you during the next loss, er, game thread!

Do you want me to sh.t on every one of these meaningless wins too? Because i totally can if that is what you really want.

Every win that keeps jones employed that much longer is a step back from a brighter future, that is truly how I view our current situation.

Sorry if you still think he’s “building something” here.......he f’ing isn’t.

Last year was the high water mark and it frankly wasn’t nearly high enough to matter or to deserve an extension.

Honestly, yes. At least you'd be consistent if cynical (which obviously I have no issue with) instead of going radio silent when things are good/encouraging and dancing on graves about how right you were when things go south.

I don't have any illusions that's he building something any loftier than what he has, which is a program that generally wins and acquits itself well in CUSA but whose postseason fortunes will always turn on three days in a quarter-filled curtain-partitioned football stadium. But if I'm the AD, I'm also not going to fire him unless I have something better in mind that's obtainable. It's easy to say in retrospect that Keatts and Rhoades would have been better hires, but Keatts had the Louisville cloud over his head and neither would have stayed long (and this place would be a toilet fire if Rhoades left ODU for his dream job of VCU).

It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

(01-13-2020 01:48 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 09:29 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If he had that kind of collapse this season, he might be done. BW accelerated his departure with 1-11; he wins even four, he probably gets one more chance to make good. But if ODU finishes with less than 12 wins, that might do it.

Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

As I was telling Razor, everything hinges on the CUSA tournament. And it's not even necessarily an indictment about how disappointing the conference has been since joining; it's as much a commentary about how top-heavy the at-large distribution has become over the past two decades. Unless you're in the P5, Big East, AAC, A10 or the MWC in a good season (or you're either Gonzaga or St. Mary's in the WCC), this is your fate: You can win your asses off, but unless you have some big-time OOC victories and *very* few losses, if you blow it in the conference semis, you'll be lucky to score a five seed in the NIT.

With where ODU is, and where CUSA is, you could find a coach that's better than JJ and recruits better than JJ and even wins more than JJ but might not have an appreciably better bottom line if North Texas or Marshall bites them in Round Rock or Frisco or wherever that football stadium is.

Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.