(01-04-2020 06:58 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-04-2020 06:48 PM)SlicRic Wrote:  As someone said earlier, the Dukes are athletic, not necessarily talented. If you’re very talented at basketball, would you shoot less than 50% at the FT line consistently? And if you’re well-coached, knowing that you have difficulty shooting, would you give up 80-90 points frequently - especially if you have all these players that are at least very long and athletic?

I said that and I stick with it. We just aren't very good. Not very talented. We look good exiting the bus as they like to say. Once we get on the court...hmmmmm…not so much. We collectively have a very low basketball IQ as they also say.

Even "talented" teams get smoked when you don't put any heart into playing defense. Non-talented teams don't have a chance.

Wait, we aren’t talented? The kids we pay to go to school that can barely shoot 50% from the free throw line aren’t talented? That’s a far cry from what I read on these boards!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JMad03, I tend to agree with you in that this whole test was done by King rather than JB. I remember Bourne introducing LR and thinking he didn't have his heart into this hire. I checked it off as being tired and in the job for too long. Not that I have changed my mind about that, but JB did not display enthusiasm at all during the introduction.

(01-04-2020 05:57 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  When other teams are shooting better from 3 than you are from the ft line, something is very wrong

Lol

Truer words never spoken. Was watching wild card games so just checking in. Sounds like more of the same ol.

(01-05-2020 12:09 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-04-2020 05:57 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  When other teams are shooting better from 3 than you are from the ft line, something is very wrong

Lol

Truer words never spoken. Was watching wild card games so just checking in. Sounds like more of the same ol.

Don’t worry we’re talented


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-04-2020 06:35 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  7 losses on the season to date. See any consistent theme on the right (less the UVA game of course)?....

34-65 (at UVA)
70-83 (at Mason)
78-94 (vs Coppin St)
71-94 (at Radford)
76-82 (vs Hofstra)
72-88 (vs Northeastern)
69-85 (at Charleston)

The other teams like 8’s & 9’s?

Ami close?!?

The decision to hire Rowe was an intentional, deliberate, and terrible error in judgement.

This decision alone should make everyone question the qualities of the athletic leadership at JMU.

You authoring this post when PG and I have shared the reasons for Lou’s hire with you a dozen times is why everyone should question the validity of your posts. You just love to use every opportunity to hate on the administration.

This team’s talent should be questioned and so should Lou’s coaching. You can even disagree with the reasoning behind Lou’s hire. Posting the same drool over and over about the quality of our administration just displays your idiocy on the subject matter and your not hidden agenda.

Ha, ha - I was still posting in the last game's thread. Didn't care enough to even notice we had a game yesterday. Seeing the results, I'm glad I missed it. Rowe has to go.

Here are some of my post-game thoughts, for what it's worth:

1. Charleston and the rest of the upper tier -- NE, Hofstra and W&M -- have star players that are seniors. Riller at Charleston, Roland at NE, Buie and Pemberton at Hofstra and Knight and Wisconsin transfer at W&M. JMU's supposed star players, Lewis and Banks, were not good yesterday and are not of the caliber of the guys I just mentioned. Lewis had 7 turnovers and combined they shot something like 6 for 21.
2. JMU's record this year is about what I expected. We unexpectedly won the ODU game, but then lost inexplicably to Coppin State and coughed up the Hofstra game. Otherwise, as expected.
3. We make Rowe out to be the worst coach ever, but his peers in the CAA have been about the same. Talking about Inglesby, Spiker and McGrath. Fischer at W&M has shown well early, but he's riding the two aforementioned seniors and Loewe, a junior. I expect a big drop-off next season for them. Inglesby has benefited from a bunch of transfers and has been extended. His team has come back to Earth after racking up a good record against crap teams out of conference.
4. Two of the most successful recent CAA hires both came in as first time head coaches at the D-1 level. Talking about Keatts and Earl Clark. I think it's nonsense that assistants can't be successful and former head coaches are sure things and that only a lot of money ensures success. Hitting on the right guy regardless of background is obviously difficult, especially for JMU.
5. No one wants to hear it, but JMU is relying on the contributions of a lot of freshman and the team has 7 among the 13 players on the roster. The freshman in the rotation, along with sophomore Parker and senior Pinkard are largely responsible for the poor free throw shooting.
6. Like Mettlen indicated, the team plays very well at times and poorly at other times. We saw that clearly yesterday.
7. JMU admin has got to get away from these lame duck coaching situations. Make a decision and move on either way. Tension Rowe feels is then projected onto his team.
8. We also have to account for the fact that the team has scrapped its initial approach and has changed how it plays. Not an ideal approach obviously.
9. We're looking at somewhere between 7 and 9 CAA wins, with a very low chance of winning the tournament.

(01-05-2020 01:11 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Here are some of my post-game thoughts, for what it's worth:

1. Charleston and the rest of the upper tier -- NE, Hofstra and W&M -- have star players that are seniors. Riller at Charleston, Roland at NE, Buie and Pemberton at Hofstra and Knight and Wisconsin transfer at W&M. JMU's supposed star players, Lewis and Banks, were not good yesterday and are not of the caliber of the guys I just mentioned. Lewis had 7 turnovers and combined they shot something like 6 for 21.
2. JMU's record this year is about what I expected. We unexpectedly won the ODU game, but then lost inexplicably to Coppin State and coughed up the Hofstra game. Otherwise, as expected.
3. We make Rowe out to be the worst coach ever, but his peers in the CAA have been about the same. Talking about Inglesby, Spiker and McGrath. Fischer at W&M has shown well early, but he's riding the two aforementioned seniors and Loewe, a junior. I expect a big drop-off next season for them. Inglesby has benefited from a bunch of transfers and has been extended. His team has come back to Earth after racking up a good record against crap teams out of conference.
4. Two of the most successful recent CAA hires both came in as first time head coaches at the D-1 level. Talking about Keatts and Earl Clark. I think it's nonsense that assistants can't be successful and former head coaches are sure things and that only a lot of money ensures success. Hitting on the right guy regardless of background is obviously difficult, especially for JMU.
5. No one wants to hear it, but JMU is relying on the contributions of a lot of freshman and the team has 7 among the 13 players on the roster. The freshman in the rotation, along with sophomore Parker and senior Pinkard are largely responsible for the poor free throw shooting.
6. Like Mettlen indicated, the team plays very well at times and poorly at other times. We saw that clearly yesterday.
7. JMU admin has got to get away from these lame duck coaching situations. Make a decision and move on either way. Tension Rowe feels is then projected onto his team.
8. We also have to account for the fact that the team has scrapped its initial approach and has changed how it plays. Not an ideal approach obviously.
9. We're looking at somewhere between 7 and 9 CAA wins, with a very low chance of winning the tournament.

I hear you 84 but I think some of these start to get old like the relying on freshmen for the rotation the deeper Coach Rowe gets into his gig at JMU. It's up to him to build the roster to have enough depth, use the depth that he has, etc. so that he can field a rotation in year 3 or 4 that plays a style that is going to yield wins on the court.

I'd actually rather JMU go to the style from earlier this year- quicker, faster, more 3s- I think it's probably our only chance. I don't think they have the guys to be successful in the half court. Maybe it's the system that they play but we have talented kids but most are slashers- their handle and their decision making isn't great- it's just not part of their DNA. They have good size and athleticism but I'm not sure if they will ever be true facilitators or lock down defenders. I think playing fast and loose 3/4 court on offense and defense and letting Jacobs and Wilson clean up on the glass is probably best for this team. It may mask some of the limitations that they have in the half court.

Here in lies the problem- Coach Rowe has proven that he can recruit. I like some things in terms of culture that he has tried to bring forward with JMU but I'm still not convinced that his style with the personnel he has recruited is going to be anything more than mediocre wins and losses. He could finish 10-8 this year in conference maybe win 18 and return to coach his first true recruiting class as Seniors and that may even be fair to let it play out that way but what would that group's ceiling be under Coach Rowe under the current system?

I vote for going back to the old style- give it time to set in- I think he abandoned it due to pressure he is feeling (rightly so). It suits guys like Banks and Christmas more and they can be good players in that system.

Even back when Brady was the coach I'm tired of these coaches saying they are going to play a certain style or play deeper, more pressure, etc. and then in game they revert to what they feel is safe. Safe half court basketball is not going to work for JMU most nights- we shoot poorly from the line, we don't execute well enough and we are too sloppy with the ball for that. Have some guts and stick with the plan, rotate guys in more frequently- play 10-11 guys, play with pressure and move the ball around spread em out for 3s. A very bad and undermanned UNCW played that style vs JMU and Drexel for that matter and kept it close in both games. We are not talking the elite of the league here but I think you get my point and that may be our only shot to see real progress as the season goes on.

(01-05-2020 01:11 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Here are some of my post-game thoughts, for what it's worth:

1. Charleston and the rest of the upper tier -- NE, Hofstra and W&M -- have star players that are seniors. Riller at Charleston, Roland at NE, Buie and Pemberton at Hofstra and Knight and Wisconsin transfer at W&M. JMU's supposed star players, Lewis and Banks, were not good yesterday and are not of the caliber of the guys I just mentioned. Lewis had 7 turnovers and combined they shot something like 6 for 21.
2. JMU's record this year is about what I expected. We unexpectedly won the ODU game, but then lost inexplicably to Coppin State and coughed up the Hofstra game. Otherwise, as expected.
3. We make Rowe out to be the worst coach ever, but his peers in the CAA have been about the same. Talking about Inglesby, Spiker and McGrath. Fischer at W&M has shown well early, but he's riding the two aforementioned seniors and Loewe, a junior. I expect a big drop-off next season for them. Inglesby has benefited from a bunch of transfers and has been extended. His team has come back to Earth after racking up a good record against crap teams out of conference.
4. Two of the most successful recent CAA hires both came in as first time head coaches at the D-1 level. Talking about Keatts and Earl Clark. I think it's nonsense that assistants can't be successful and former head coaches are sure things and that only a lot of money ensures success. Hitting on the right guy regardless of background is obviously difficult, especially for JMU.
5. No one wants to hear it, but JMU is relying on the contributions of a lot of freshman and the team has 7 among the 13 players on the roster. The freshman in the rotation, along with sophomore Parker and senior Pinkard are largely responsible for the poor free throw shooting.
6. Like Mettlen indicated, the team plays very well at times and poorly at other times. We saw that clearly yesterday.
7. JMU admin has got to get away from these lame duck coaching situations. Make a decision and move on either way. Tension Rowe feels is then projected onto his team.
8. We also have to account for the fact that the team has scrapped its initial approach and has changed how it plays. Not an ideal approach obviously.
9. We're looking at somewhere between 7 and 9 CAA wins, with a very low chance of winning the tournament.

I found your post enlightening

- Other CAA teams are better because they have better players.
- Rowe is just as good a coach as most other CAA coaches. Some of them simply benefited from better coaching decisions.
- First-time head coaches can often be successful, JMU just sucks at finding them.
- 9 of the 13 players are "largely" responsible for the poor free-throw shooting, leaving us with maybe 4 decent free-throw shooters on the team.
- Tensions are being caused by a potential upcoming lame duck season, not due to the last 4 under-performing seasons.
- The team is performing poorly because they switched systems, not because none of the prior systems worked.

(01-05-2020 02:09 PM)2Buck Wrote:  

(01-05-2020 01:11 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Here are some of my post-game thoughts, for what it's worth:

1. Charleston and the rest of the upper tier -- NE, Hofstra and W&M -- have star players that are seniors. Riller at Charleston, Roland at NE, Buie and Pemberton at Hofstra and Knight and Wisconsin transfer at W&M. JMU's supposed star players, Lewis and Banks, were not good yesterday and are not of the caliber of the guys I just mentioned. Lewis had 7 turnovers and combined they shot something like 6 for 21.
2. JMU's record this year is about what I expected. We unexpectedly won the ODU game, but then lost inexplicably to Coppin State and coughed up the Hofstra game. Otherwise, as expected.
3. We make Rowe out to be the worst coach ever, but his peers in the CAA have been about the same. Talking about Inglesby, Spiker and McGrath. Fischer at W&M has shown well early, but he's riding the two aforementioned seniors and Loewe, a junior. I expect a big drop-off next season for them. Inglesby has benefited from a bunch of transfers and has been extended. His team has come back to Earth after racking up a good record against crap teams out of conference.
4. Two of the most successful recent CAA hires both came in as first time head coaches at the D-1 level. Talking about Keatts and Earl Clark. I think it's nonsense that assistants can't be successful and former head coaches are sure things and that only a lot of money ensures success. Hitting on the right guy regardless of background is obviously difficult, especially for JMU.
5. No one wants to hear it, but JMU is relying on the contributions of a lot of freshman and the team has 7 among the 13 players on the roster. The freshman in the rotation, along with sophomore Parker and senior Pinkard are largely responsible for the poor free throw shooting.
6. Like Mettlen indicated, the team plays very well at times and poorly at other times. We saw that clearly yesterday.
7. JMU admin has got to get away from these lame duck coaching situations. Make a decision and move on either way. Tension Rowe feels is then projected onto his team.
8. We also have to account for the fact that the team has scrapped its initial approach and has changed how it plays. Not an ideal approach obviously.
9. We're looking at somewhere between 7 and 9 CAA wins, with a very low chance of winning the tournament.

I found your post enlightening
Right...everything I said is idiotic and without merit, as you suggest.

- Other CAA teams are better because they have better players.
The best teams have elite players...JMU doesn't have a first team All CAA caliber player. The last time JMU had a winning CAA record they had a first team All CAA player (which I didn't state, but it was inferred). You disagree with that?

- Rowe is just as good a coach as most other CAA coaches. Some of them simply benefited from better coaching decisions.

Rowe's record is about the same as other CAA coaches hired at the same relative time frame (and they represent a mix of former head coaches and assistants from high level programs). One of those coaches has already received an extension. You disagree with any of that (and of course there's an underlying point to my saying that, as with most of my post)?

- First-time head coaches can often be successful, JMU just sucks at finding them.

I said no such thing. Some on here claim that only someone with prior head coaching experience can be successful and that enormous salaries have to be paid to secure those hires. Recent history says otherwise.

- 9 of the 13 players are "largely" responsible for the poor free-throw shooting, leaving us with maybe 4 decent free-throw shooters on the team.

Most of the poor free throw shooting is attributable to two freshman players in the rotation, a sophomore and a seldom used senior. That is correct. Point being that that is what you get sometimes with inexperience.

- Tensions are being caused by a potential upcoming lame duck season, not due to the last 4 under-performing seasons.

It's not just an ordinary lame duck season, but one in which a $125M new building to house the team is coming on line. They knew enough following last season to either give him a short extension or fire him. This sort of situation creates a self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense, a drum beat to an eventual dismissal. Right now, expectations are not aligned with the reality of the roster, which is imbalanced with a 7-man freshman class.

- The team is performing poorly because they switched systems, not because none of the prior systems worked.

He switched his approach in response to feeling a need to win now and because he felt that their offensive approach lent itself to lax defense. Their defense is still an issue as evidenced by the 47 point first half explosion by Charleston yesterday. He was too slow in adjusting out of the zone...even the announcers noted as much. 97 is right in saying their ceiling is perhaps highest by playing a VCU-style game with this particular roster.

Rowe, believe it or not, has done some good things and is trying to build a sustainable program in the right way. No one on here wants to hear it, but an argument could be made to give him a short extension (say 2 years) with the idea that he be let go after next season if he didn't win the conference. I would only advocate for that if he could bring in the best possible assistants.

I know everyone on here thinks they know better, but the JMU Administration is in a tough bind here. It's all compounded by that albatross of a $125M building when attendance is flagging across multiple sports across the country.

84,
JMU is in a tough bind because they put themselves in this bind.

Posters want to point out LR’s first season was year zero because he inherited a program with a bunch of slow footed Europeans and he needed time to recruit and shape the roster to his vision for the program - well LR’s best conference record (7-11) came from that very same team made up of MB recruits.

Since year zero LR has fielded teams with better athletes but they have not been better basketball teams.

JB and CK fired MB after his past two teams went (12-6) and (11-7) in conference play. Ultimately, he was fired because of his poor CAAT record. If this team finishes below (11-7) in the CAA and does not at least make it to the conference championship game then JB and CK need to hold LR to the same standard and not give him an pass because he is a beloved Alum.

I wasn't implying your post was idiotic, please don't take any of that personally. You just seemed to position everything as weak excuses for our program (coach). Teams have "elite" players because a good coach either recruited an elite player, or a good coach developed a good player into an elite player. The other teams have elite players because of the coach. No other revenue sport benefits or suffers more from the head coach position than men's basketball.

This admin is in the bind they're in because they've driven a once proud program into the ground and built a $100mm monument on its ashes.

Let me ask you a question, do you think JMU football has had its recent success by looking for low-cost diamond in the rough head coaches and aspiring to middle of the conference standards?

The fact that they (or anyone on here) would hold up any kind of CAA conference metric as a standard for our men's BB program is exactly why we are where we are.

Paying for a FCS head coach and a Div 1 NCAAM Basketball coach are about as apples and oranges as it gets. That said, paying a typically NCAAM head coach salary guarantees you nothing - plenty out there making over $1 million / year without any decent results to speak of. This only encourages the JMU admin to go cheap on bball coaching. Facilities, on the other hand, have more revenue-generating purposes than the sport alone. The decision making here is certainly not rocket science.

Until the alumni pay what other G5 and P5 schools are willing to pay in donations, there's no reason to expect real change.

(01-05-2020 07:51 PM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  84,
JMU is in a tough bind because they put themselves in this bind.

Posters want to point out LR’s first season was year zero because he inherited a program with a bunch of slow footed Europeans and he needed time to recruit and shape the roster to his vision for the program - well LR’s best conference record (7-11) came from that very same team made up of MB recruits.

Since year zero LR has fielded teams with better athletes but they have not been better basketball teams.

JB and CK fired MB after his past two teams went (12-6) and (11-7) in conference play. Ultimately, he was fired because of his poor CAAT record. If this team finishes below (11-7) in the CAA and does not at least make it to the conference championship game then JB and CK need to hold LR to the same standard and not give him an pass because he is a beloved Alum.

Brady was not fired because of his record and lack of tournament success. He was fired because of everything that occurred off the court with his program. Matt was a good coach and a horrible CEO. He soured his relationship with his employer very early. He is a good #2. Lou’s strengths and his would be a great combination because they are the opposite of one another.

Nation,

I tend to agree. Brady (coaching) and Rowe (recruiting) were and could be a great combination. Unfortunately it wont happen.

too bad they weren't together longer the first time around

(01-04-2020 06:35 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  7 losses on the season to date. See any consistent theme on the right (less the UVA game of course)?....

34-65 (at UVA)
70-83 (at Mason)
78-94 (vs Coppin St)
71-94 (at Radford)
76-82 (vs Hofstra)
72-88 (vs Northeastern)
69-85 (at Charleston)

yes, just play 'OK' defense.....does not have to be great defense. just keep the other team below 75.

(01-04-2020 06:58 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(01-04-2020 06:48 PM)SlicRic Wrote:  As someone said earlier, the Dukes are athletic, not necessarily talented. If you’re very talented at basketball, would you shoot less than 50% at the FT line consistently? And if you’re well-coached, knowing that you have difficulty shooting, would you give up 80-90 points frequently - especially if you have all these players that are at least very long and athletic?

I said that and I stick with it. We just aren't very good. Not very talented. We look good exiting the bus as they like to say. Once we get on the court...hmmmmm…not so much. We collectively have a very low basketball IQ as they also say.

Even "talented" teams get smoked when you don't put any heart into playing defense. Non-talented teams don't have a chance.

Exactly, you are not going to always have good offensive games......but defense, rebounding, and free throws should be consistent and always travels.

(01-06-2020 09:50 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-04-2020 06:35 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  7 losses on the season to date. See any consistent theme on the right (less the UVA game of course)?....

34-65 (at UVA)
70-83 (at Mason)
78-94 (vs Coppin St)
71-94 (at Radford)
76-82 (vs Hofstra)
72-88 (vs Northeastern)
69-85 (at Charleston)

yes, just play 'OK' defense.....does not have to be great defense. just keep the other team below 75.