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(10-22-2019 05:59 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  The ONE thing that stands out with Lester...

He really relates well with his players. His guys are buying into his system and his style. He could have easily lost a number of these guys to the portal. Defensively alone we could have lost a TON of the limited talent that we actually do have...

He's NOT PJ... he's not a fiery rah rah rah type... he's a tactician. He sees the game as a field of opportunity and decision making along with calculated adjustments. However he's also not capable of going out on the field and executing for his players.

I have spent quite a bit of time being pissed about this staff. We wan't to see results. When you sit back and stop letting emotion drive reality you can see that there is still transition happening with this program. NOBODY was going to come into this program after PJ and keep up with what PJ was doing. PJ was and is an anomaly... There was going to be a time of transition regardless...

We should be happy that we have a guy at the helm that is holding together what was learned behind the scenes with the use of the players councils and with keeping with PJ level traditions inside the program. Sure we gave back the row the boat garbage... but the FAMILY feel and the way these players are working together to continue the energy of the PROGRAM was NOT lost...

WE need to let Lester get his PROGRAM together. We aren't far off... I said before... look at how far we have come from even last year. We aren't getting smoked by Toledo this year... we still have work to do... but I feel like we are MUCH closer than we were a year ago.

Lets keep the recruit pipeline going and see where this current staff can take us.

GO BRONCOS!

Jeez dude it's gotta be exhausting going through this same cycle every week.. You've been ready to fire the guy several times then by Tuesday you're his biggest fan again..

How are we so much closer than a year ago? Seriously how? We aren't getting smoked by Toledo? Toledo is 1-2 in the MAC and lost by 38 to Ball State last week. Yes they lost their QB after playing us but they clearly aren't world beaters.

I should hope we aren't getting "smoked" by anyone this year. The MAC is down, way down.

All the other stuff is window dressing. I don't care if he runs the sidelines and comes up with a bunch of sayings, or can barely walk the sidelines like Solich, or displays zero public personality like Paul Chryst. It's about results. This is year 3, I'm not seeing the "transition" excuse.

(10-23-2019 01:39 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-22-2019 05:59 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  The ONE thing that stands out with Lester...

He really relates well with his players. His guys are buying into his system and his style. He could have easily lost a number of these guys to the portal. Defensively alone we could have lost a TON of the limited talent that we actually do have...

He's NOT PJ... he's not a fiery rah rah rah type... he's a tactician. He sees the game as a field of opportunity and decision making along with calculated adjustments. However he's also not capable of going out on the field and executing for his players.

I have spent quite a bit of time being pissed about this staff. We wan't to see results. When you sit back and stop letting emotion drive reality you can see that there is still transition happening with this program. NOBODY was going to come into this program after PJ and keep up with what PJ was doing. PJ was and is an anomaly... There was going to be a time of transition regardless...

We should be happy that we have a guy at the helm that is holding together what was learned behind the scenes with the use of the players councils and with keeping with PJ level traditions inside the program. Sure we gave back the row the boat garbage... but the FAMILY feel and the way these players are working together to continue the energy of the PROGRAM was NOT lost...

WE need to let Lester get his PROGRAM together. We aren't far off... I said before... look at how far we have come from even last year. We aren't getting smoked by Toledo this year... we still have work to do... but I feel like we are MUCH closer than we were a year ago.

Lets keep the recruit pipeline going and see where this current staff can take us.

GO BRONCOS!

Jeez dude it's gotta be exhausting going through this same cycle every week.. You've been ready to fire the guy several times then by Tuesday you're his biggest fan again..

How are we so much closer than a year ago? Seriously how? We aren't getting smoked by Toledo? Toledo is 1-2 in the MAC and lost by 38 to Ball State last week. Yes they lost their QB after playing us but they clearly aren't world beaters.

I should hope we aren't getting "smoked" by anyone this year. The MAC is down, way down.

All the other stuff is window dressing. I don't care if he runs the sidelines and comes up with a bunch of sayings, or can barely walk the sidelines like Solich, or displays zero public personality like Paul Chryst. It's about results. This is year 3, I'm not seeing the "transition" excuse.

It IS exhausting... Like I said in the above... once you take the knee jerk reactionary response element away... you are left with the reality of the situation. This situation dictates that we have two paths to choose...

Path 1 : Completely disregard this entire program and look away until a new head coach is hired in no less than 4 years. basically denouncing the WMU football fandom in the meantime and living a cranky existence.

Path 2 : Continuing to be a fan of WMU and all of its programs along with having a healthy appetite for conversation with fellow fans about topics such as "expectations"... "coaching style"... "Cannon volume"... etc.

I personally have been very irritated with the product on the field up to this point under coach Lester. I would bet that he feels the same way... everyone wants to win EVERY damn game.. but it's not likely.... We here on the stampeded can let frustrations boil over and thats whats so great about this forum... its a place where us fans can let it out... vent.

In all seriousness... I DO think that as a PROGRAM this team is still finding its way. Still missing quite a few pieces and growing every day. I think we need a good beat down of BGSU to really help us all get back on board.

As always... GO BRONCOS!

What I find exhausting is seeing the same groundhog day product week after week on the field.. and when we play a weak opponent and win because of our talent we get people blowing sunshine about how much better we look.

Likewise, we go play MSU and (a bad) Syracuse and people complained about the product.. not necessarily that we lost.. and again and again we are told "wait till we play MAC teams".

Three years in a row a certain group of people have felt the level of play has not been good enough, whether losing to more talented teams or beating weak teams in MAC play. We are then attacked and told to wait and see, and unfortunately continue to be proven right about what our eyes plainly see when the tougher MAC games come along. THAT is what is exhausting. Three years in.. not buying the "still finding their way" deal. Not when the staff took over a program in good shape.

(10-22-2019 06:32 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(10-22-2019 06:23 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Nobody expected Lester to be like PJ, or to sustain the 2016 level of success. Nobody.

Yet EVERYONE seems to shoot down every one of Lesters successes and magnify all of his failures with glasses tinted by our recent PJ success.

What success? The Potato Bowl? I'm happy to have made it, but WMU didn't belong on the same field as BYU that afternoon.

(10-23-2019 12:23 PM)Toddzilla Wrote:  

(10-22-2019 06:32 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(10-22-2019 06:23 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Nobody expected Lester to be like PJ, or to sustain the 2016 level of success. Nobody.

Yet EVERYONE seems to shoot down every one of Lesters successes and magnify all of his failures with glasses tinted by our recent PJ success.

What success? The Potato Bowl? I'm happy to have made it, but WMU didn't belong on the same field as BYU that afternoon.

Well you see he had that amazing 6 game win streak against teams that went (checks notes) uh 22-51

(10-23-2019 09:56 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What I find exhausting is seeing the same groundhog day product week after week on the field.. and when we play a weak opponent and win because of our talent we get people blowing sunshine about how much better we look.

Likewise, we go play MSU and (a bad) Syracuse and people complained about the product.. not necessarily that we lost.. and again and again we are told "wait till we play MAC teams".

Three years in a row a certain group of people have felt the level of play has not been good enough, whether losing to more talented teams or beating weak teams in MAC play. We are then attacked and told to wait and see, and unfortunately continue to be proven right about what our eyes plainly see when the tougher MAC games come along. THAT is what is exhausting. Three years in.. not buying the "still finding their way" deal. Not when the staff took over a program in good shape.

In fairness, the attacks come after wanting to fire the coach mid-game and then 15 separate threads with every conceivable criticism are launched like a salvo of ICBMs. And then after a win when there's a chance to talk about what went right and to celebrate good performances, the forum is largely dead.

People can still praise players and good plays. If people are afraid that just supports the coaches or the administration, then they're coming from a bad place on that. They would be doing exactly what some anti-Fleck people were doing when he started showing some on-field success.

All our wins this year have been solid. Georgia St and Central Michigan both sit at 5 wins, and had we lost to Miami, they'd be at .500.

We have yet to play a weak MAC team this season.

Wasn't Lester quoting a SB Nation article about staff turnover? Bad choice on Tims part. He was trying to excuse new coaches who weren't selected from current staff. He used Crandle as example at Toledo who instead has some success. His point was coaches from outside the culture using end up only winning a couple of games the first few seasons. The problem with Coach Lester using this example is he came to WMU the same year Fleck came to Minnesota. What is Minnesota's record 2019? WMU record 2019? That's the first thing I thought of. Lester likes percentages but percentages sometimes bite you

(10-23-2019 02:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 09:56 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What I find exhausting is seeing the same groundhog day product week after week on the field.. and when we play a weak opponent and win because of our talent we get people blowing sunshine about how much better we look.

Likewise, we go play MSU and (a bad) Syracuse and people complained about the product.. not necessarily that we lost.. and again and again we are told "wait till we play MAC teams".

Three years in a row a certain group of people have felt the level of play has not been good enough, whether losing to more talented teams or beating weak teams in MAC play. We are then attacked and told to wait and see, and unfortunately continue to be proven right about what our eyes plainly see when the tougher MAC games come along. THAT is what is exhausting. Three years in.. not buying the "still finding their way" deal. Not when the staff took over a program in good shape.

In fairness, the attacks come after wanting to fire the coach mid-game and then 15 separate threads with every conceivable criticism are launched like a salvo of ICBMs. And then after a win when there's a chance to talk about what went right and to celebrate good performances, the forum is largely dead.

People can still praise players and good plays. If people are afraid that just supports the coaches or the administration, then they're coming from a bad place on that. They would be doing exactly what some anti-Fleck people were doing when he started showing some on-field success.

This might be because we get blown off the field against -- what I will call "quality opponents" (2018 -- UM, Ohio, Toledo, BYU 2019 -- MSU, Cuse) and then beat the teams that are less than decent or flat-out bad. Losing pisses people off. Getting blown out, pisses people off. Beating lousy teams, or teams that aren't that good (outside of our hated rival) doesn't rejuvenate the fan base. I do not get the same pleasure blowing out Delaware State, Monmouth, or any other team that I expect to win against. MAC wins are nice, but when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off. These are things that should be obvious to the casual observer.

I think Tim Lester is a nice guy. He looks like a great dad & an alum that we should all be proud of. I am not convinced he is a D-1 caliber football coach. This isn't a knock on the guy, I just don't think he's qualified to run a D-1 program & I think many of his coordinators are under qualified as well. I am more upset with the people who put him in charge. I think he is a very good X's and O's guy on offense, however I do not think he has the whole package that you need to be successful at this level. I hope I am wrong, I want him to be successful and take our program to the next level. I just don't see it happening with this staff, we are almost 3 years in..

(10-25-2019 03:06 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  [quote='RunningGame' pid='16392707' dateline='1571858942']
when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off.

If we win out, I think we have a good shot.

Ignore the data. Fire the coach. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

(10-25-2019 03:06 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 02:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 09:56 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What I find exhausting is seeing the same groundhog day product week after week on the field.. and when we play a weak opponent and win because of our talent we get people blowing sunshine about how much better we look.

Likewise, we go play MSU and (a bad) Syracuse and people complained about the product.. not necessarily that we lost.. and again and again we are told "wait till we play MAC teams".

Three years in a row a certain group of people have felt the level of play has not been good enough, whether losing to more talented teams or beating weak teams in MAC play. We are then attacked and told to wait and see, and unfortunately continue to be proven right about what our eyes plainly see when the tougher MAC games come along. THAT is what is exhausting. Three years in.. not buying the "still finding their way" deal. Not when the staff took over a program in good shape.

In fairness, the attacks come after wanting to fire the coach mid-game and then 15 separate threads with every conceivable criticism are launched like a salvo of ICBMs. And then after a win when there's a chance to talk about what went right and to celebrate good performances, the forum is largely dead.

People can still praise players and good plays. If people are afraid that just supports the coaches or the administration, then they're coming from a bad place on that. They would be doing exactly what some anti-Fleck people were doing when he started showing some on-field success.

This might be because we get blown off the field against -- what I will call "quality opponents" (2018 -- UM, Ohio, Toledo, BYU 2019 -- MSU, Cuse) and then beat the teams that are less than decent or flat-out bad. Losing pisses people off. Getting blown out, pisses people off. Beating lousy teams, or teams that aren't that good (outside of our hated rival) doesn't rejuvenate the fan base. I do not get the same pleasure blowing out Delaware State, Monmouth, or any other team that I expect to win against. MAC wins are nice, but when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off. These are things that should be obvious to the casual observer.

I think Tim Lester is a nice guy. He looks like a great dad & an alum that we should all be proud of. I am not convinced he is a D-1 caliber football coach. This isn't a knock on the guy, I just don't think he's qualified to run a D-1 program & I think many of his coordinators are under qualified as well. I am more upset with the people who put him in charge. I think he is a very good X's and O's guy on offense, however I do not think he has the whole package that you need to be successful at this level. I hope I am wrong, I want him to be successful and take our program to the next level. I just don't see it happening with this staff, we are almost 3 years in..

Best analysis of the staff I've seen yet, I don't think anybody dislikes Lester as a person, seems like a great guy but he's gotta start putting results on the field. I see this season finishing 7 wins and next year likely very similar.

(10-26-2019 10:51 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-25-2019 03:06 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 02:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 09:56 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What I find exhausting is seeing the same groundhog day product week after week on the field.. and when we play a weak opponent and win because of our talent we get people blowing sunshine about how much better we look.

Likewise, we go play MSU and (a bad) Syracuse and people complained about the product.. not necessarily that we lost.. and again and again we are told "wait till we play MAC teams".

Three years in a row a certain group of people have felt the level of play has not been good enough, whether losing to more talented teams or beating weak teams in MAC play. We are then attacked and told to wait and see, and unfortunately continue to be proven right about what our eyes plainly see when the tougher MAC games come along. THAT is what is exhausting. Three years in.. not buying the "still finding their way" deal. Not when the staff took over a program in good shape.

In fairness, the attacks come after wanting to fire the coach mid-game and then 15 separate threads with every conceivable criticism are launched like a salvo of ICBMs. And then after a win when there's a chance to talk about what went right and to celebrate good performances, the forum is largely dead.

People can still praise players and good plays. If people are afraid that just supports the coaches or the administration, then they're coming from a bad place on that. They would be doing exactly what some anti-Fleck people were doing when he started showing some on-field success.

This might be because we get blown off the field against -- what I will call "quality opponents" (2018 -- UM, Ohio, Toledo, BYU 2019 -- MSU, Cuse) and then beat the teams that are less than decent or flat-out bad. Losing pisses people off. Getting blown out, pisses people off. Beating lousy teams, or teams that aren't that good (outside of our hated rival) doesn't rejuvenate the fan base. I do not get the same pleasure blowing out Delaware State, Monmouth, or any other team that I expect to win against. MAC wins are nice, but when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off. These are things that should be obvious to the casual observer.

I think Tim Lester is a nice guy. He looks like a great dad & an alum that we should all be proud of. I am not convinced he is a D-1 caliber football coach. This isn't a knock on the guy, I just don't think he's qualified to run a D-1 program & I think many of his coordinators are under qualified as well. I am more upset with the people who put him in charge. I think he is a very good X's and O's guy on offense, however I do not think he has the whole package that you need to be successful at this level. I hope I am wrong, I want him to be successful and take our program to the next level. I just don't see it happening with this staff, we are almost 3 years in..

Best analysis of the staff I've seen yet, I don't think anybody dislikes Lester as a person, seems like a great guy but he's gotta start putting results on the field. I see this season finishing 7 wins and next year likely very similar.

Mediocrity. Just what everybody wants!

(10-26-2019 11:21 AM)Toddzilla Wrote:  

(10-26-2019 10:51 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-25-2019 03:06 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 02:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 09:56 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  What I find exhausting is seeing the same groundhog day product week after week on the field.. and when we play a weak opponent and win because of our talent we get people blowing sunshine about how much better we look.

Likewise, we go play MSU and (a bad) Syracuse and people complained about the product.. not necessarily that we lost.. and again and again we are told "wait till we play MAC teams".

Three years in a row a certain group of people have felt the level of play has not been good enough, whether losing to more talented teams or beating weak teams in MAC play. We are then attacked and told to wait and see, and unfortunately continue to be proven right about what our eyes plainly see when the tougher MAC games come along. THAT is what is exhausting. Three years in.. not buying the "still finding their way" deal. Not when the staff took over a program in good shape.

In fairness, the attacks come after wanting to fire the coach mid-game and then 15 separate threads with every conceivable criticism are launched like a salvo of ICBMs. And then after a win when there's a chance to talk about what went right and to celebrate good performances, the forum is largely dead.

People can still praise players and good plays. If people are afraid that just supports the coaches or the administration, then they're coming from a bad place on that. They would be doing exactly what some anti-Fleck people were doing when he started showing some on-field success.

This might be because we get blown off the field against -- what I will call "quality opponents" (2018 -- UM, Ohio, Toledo, BYU 2019 -- MSU, Cuse) and then beat the teams that are less than decent or flat-out bad. Losing pisses people off. Getting blown out, pisses people off. Beating lousy teams, or teams that aren't that good (outside of our hated rival) doesn't rejuvenate the fan base. I do not get the same pleasure blowing out Delaware State, Monmouth, or any other team that I expect to win against. MAC wins are nice, but when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off. These are things that should be obvious to the casual observer.

I think Tim Lester is a nice guy. He looks like a great dad & an alum that we should all be proud of. I am not convinced he is a D-1 caliber football coach. This isn't a knock on the guy, I just don't think he's qualified to run a D-1 program & I think many of his coordinators are under qualified as well. I am more upset with the people who put him in charge. I think he is a very good X's and O's guy on offense, however I do not think he has the whole package that you need to be successful at this level. I hope I am wrong, I want him to be successful and take our program to the next level. I just don't see it happening with this staff, we are almost 3 years in..

Best analysis of the staff I've seen yet, I don't think anybody dislikes Lester as a person, seems like a great guy but he's gotta start putting results on the field. I see this season finishing 7 wins and next year likely very similar.

Mediocrity. Just what everybody wants!

I've been screaming that for the least two years...

(10-26-2019 11:22 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-26-2019 11:21 AM)Toddzilla Wrote:  

(10-26-2019 10:51 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-25-2019 03:06 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  

(10-23-2019 02:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  In fairness, the attacks come after wanting to fire the coach mid-game and then 15 separate threads with every conceivable criticism are launched like a salvo of ICBMs. And then after a win when there's a chance to talk about what went right and to celebrate good performances, the forum is largely dead.

People can still praise players and good plays. If people are afraid that just supports the coaches or the administration, then they're coming from a bad place on that. They would be doing exactly what some anti-Fleck people were doing when he started showing some on-field success.

This might be because we get blown off the field against -- what I will call "quality opponents" (2018 -- UM, Ohio, Toledo, BYU 2019 -- MSU, Cuse) and then beat the teams that are less than decent or flat-out bad. Losing pisses people off. Getting blown out, pisses people off. Beating lousy teams, or teams that aren't that good (outside of our hated rival) doesn't rejuvenate the fan base. I do not get the same pleasure blowing out Delaware State, Monmouth, or any other team that I expect to win against. MAC wins are nice, but when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off. These are things that should be obvious to the casual observer.

I think Tim Lester is a nice guy. He looks like a great dad & an alum that we should all be proud of. I am not convinced he is a D-1 caliber football coach. This isn't a knock on the guy, I just don't think he's qualified to run a D-1 program & I think many of his coordinators are under qualified as well. I am more upset with the people who put him in charge. I think he is a very good X's and O's guy on offense, however I do not think he has the whole package that you need to be successful at this level. I hope I am wrong, I want him to be successful and take our program to the next level. I just don't see it happening with this staff, we are almost 3 years in..

Best analysis of the staff I've seen yet, I don't think anybody dislikes Lester as a person, seems like a great guy but he's gotta start putting results on the field. I see this season finishing 7 wins and next year likely very similar.

Mediocrity. Just what everybody wants!

I've been screaming that for the least two years...

No you’re just a fleckdashian just like me!!!

(10-26-2019 11:32 AM)Toddzilla Wrote:  

(10-26-2019 11:22 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-26-2019 11:21 AM)Toddzilla Wrote:  

(10-26-2019 10:51 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-25-2019 03:06 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  This might be because we get blown off the field against -- what I will call "quality opponents" (2018 -- UM, Ohio, Toledo, BYU 2019 -- MSU, Cuse) and then beat the teams that are less than decent or flat-out bad. Losing pisses people off. Getting blown out, pisses people off. Beating lousy teams, or teams that aren't that good (outside of our hated rival) doesn't rejuvenate the fan base. I do not get the same pleasure blowing out Delaware State, Monmouth, or any other team that I expect to win against. MAC wins are nice, but when we are out of the MAC race halfway through October..that also pisses people off. These are things that should be obvious to the casual observer.

I think Tim Lester is a nice guy. He looks like a great dad & an alum that we should all be proud of. I am not convinced he is a D-1 caliber football coach. This isn't a knock on the guy, I just don't think he's qualified to run a D-1 program & I think many of his coordinators are under qualified as well. I am more upset with the people who put him in charge. I think he is a very good X's and O's guy on offense, however I do not think he has the whole package that you need to be successful at this level. I hope I am wrong, I want him to be successful and take our program to the next level. I just don't see it happening with this staff, we are almost 3 years in..

Best analysis of the staff I've seen yet, I don't think anybody dislikes Lester as a person, seems like a great guy but he's gotta start putting results on the field. I see this season finishing 7 wins and next year likely very similar.

Mediocrity. Just what everybody wants!

I've been screaming that for the least two years...

No you’re just a fleckdashian just like me!!!

OK "fleckdashian's". Please provide me a list of "quality opponents" wins during Fleck's tenure. We were fortune to beat a 7-6 Northwestern team in 2016.

Nobody thrives for mediocrity on this board -- we all want win.

The "quality opponents" are now on the plate for Fleck -- we'll see how things pan out.

(10-27-2019 11:14 PM)BroncoMD Wrote:  OK "fleckdashian's". Please provide me a list of "quality opponents" wins during Fleck's tenure. We were fortune to beat a 7-6 Northwestern team in 2016.

Nobody thrives for mediocrity on this board -- we all want win.

The "quality opponents" are now on the plate for Fleck -- we'll see how things pan out.

Nobody was really making this comparison, but since you asked..

2014
@BGSU (8-6, MACE champs)
@CMU (7-6)

2015
CMU (7-6, 6-2, tied for MACW)
@Ohio (8-5)
@Toledo (10-2, #24 at the time)
MTSU bowl win (7-6)

2016
@NW (7-6, likely best P5 team we ever beat)
EMU (7-6)
Toledo (9-4)
Ohio (MACC, 8-6)

Those are all of Fleck's wins over opponents with winning records. To date Lester has 2, 7-6 EMU and 8-6 NIU last year. Note the ability to beat decent teams on the road in the Fleck years. He has likely one more in GSU this year and possibly CMU and/or Miami.

But until we show an ability to beat a team with a pulse on the road this team isn't really going anywhere.

(10-28-2019 02:42 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-27-2019 11:14 PM)BroncoMD Wrote:  OK "fleckdashian's". Please provide me a list of "quality opponents" wins during Fleck's tenure. We were fortune to beat a 7-6 Northwestern team in 2016.

Nobody thrives for mediocrity on this board -- we all want win.

The "quality opponents" are now on the plate for Fleck -- we'll see how things pan out.

Nobody was really making this comparison, but since you asked..

2014
@BGSU (8-6, MACE champs)
@CMU (7-6)

2015
CMU (7-6, 6-2, tied for MACW)
@Ohio (8-5)
@Toledo (10-2, #24 at the time)
MTSU bowl win (7-6)

2016
@NW (7-6, likely best P5 team we ever beat)
EMU (7-6)
Toledo (9-4)
Ohio (MACC, 8-6)

Those are all of Fleck's wins over opponents with winning records. To date Lester has 2, 7-6 EMU and 8-6 NIU last year. Note the ability to beat decent teams on the road in the Fleck years. He has likely one more in GSU this year and possibly CMU and/or Miami.

But until we show an ability to beat a team with a pulse on the road this team isn't really going anywhere.

Fair enough. I was thinking along the lines of P5 wins. Again, we'll see how Fleck does against Penn State, Iowa, and Wisconsin. We all know he has had a favorable schedule up to this point.

Quote:Mediocrity. Just what everybody wants!

Yep! Better than going 4-8! :) I'll take going 7-5 with the occasional 6-6 and 8-4, year after year after year, and nothing different. I would say it's a little above mediocrity, when spanning many years and never going below .500.... but more or less being a "run of the mill" G5 that competitors won't want to overlook in their schedule. Are my standards too Low, to be just fine & dandy with that? I don't think so. Nothing's more frustrating than it being a Whole Season where you know you're not going to have a winning record and aren't competitive in the MAC West. I'd trade a once-a-decade going 11W for 8W, while flipping also flipping 4W & 5W seasons to 6W & 7W.