There's plenty to run on...in including this:

Quote:Forecasting firm Moody’s Analytics estimates that Trump’s trade war with China has already reduced U.S. employment by 300,000 jobs, compared with likely employment levels absent the trade war. That’s a combination of jobs eliminated by firms struggling with tariffs and other elements of the trade war, and jobs that would have been created but haven’t because of reduced economic activity.

The firm’s chief economist, Mark Zandi, told Yahoo Finance that the job toll from the trade war will hit about 450,000 by the end of the year, if there’s no change in policy. By the end of 2020, the trade war will have killed 900,000 jobs, on its current course. The hardest-hit sectors are manufacturing, warehousing, distribution and retail.

Trump’s trade war has killed 300,000 jobs

The problem is that the dems are incapable of doing it, correctly.

(09-11-2019 06:19 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 06:09 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Thanks Apple, Boeing and China.

Amazing that the Demons will never give Trumps administration any credit. They are so, so sick.

Hey, but at least she didn't try to give the credit to Oblunder.

Right...it was clearly the trumpPhone 11 that propelled the market yesterday.

(09-12-2019 09:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  There's plenty to run on...in including this:

Quote:Forecasting firm Moody’s Analytics estimates that Trump’s trade war with China has already reduced U.S. employment by 300,000 jobs, compared with likely employment levels absent the trade war. That’s a combination of jobs eliminated by firms struggling with tariffs and other elements of the trade war, and jobs that would have been created but haven’t because of reduced economic activity.

The firm’s chief economist, Mark Zandi, told Yahoo Finance that the job toll from the trade war will hit about 450,000 by the end of the year, if there’s no change in policy. By the end of 2020, the trade war will have killed 900,000 jobs, on its current course. The hardest-hit sectors are manufacturing, warehousing, distribution and retail.

Trump’s trade war has killed 300,000 jobs

The problem is that the dems are incapable of doing it, correctly.

I don't think anyone denies that this trade war is detrimental to the economy short term. I guess my question to you is..."What if China actually does come to the table and we come out of this with even 1/2 of what Trump wants?" Then what happens to our economy long term? Im not a fan of tariffs unless they are used against those that are gaming our system. That seems to be the case here. We should all hope like hell that Trump pulls a rabbit out of his hat and comes away with a good deal for the USA/China trade paradigm. Even you Tom should be xing your fingers on this one.

The Dow has dropped more than 800 points in two days. Yesterday we had the weakest U.S. manufacturing report in 10 years.

The Democrats hate this country and want the economy to tank!

(10-02-2019 04:00 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  The Dow has dropped more than 800 points in two days. Yesterday we had the weakest U.S. manufacturing report in 10 years.

The Democrats hate this country and want the economy to tank!

All statements here are factual.

Wall St is digesting Biden going down, and Sanders having stints put in, which may mean his base consolidates with Warrens sooner. So they believe Warren will be the nominee, and if by chance she wins, will be horrible for the country.

(10-02-2019 05:05 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Wall St is digesting Biden going down, and Sanders having stints put in, which may mean his base consolidates with Warrens sooner. So they believe Warren will be the nominee, and if by chance she wins, will be horrible for the country.

it would be the crash of all crashes on a percentage basis....

how the majority that invest do not understand the 'winter hibernation' and 'compound interest' are just plain ignorant...

you can only raise the USD valuation so much over any nominal period...\

that stupid whiner would blow it up to smithereens....

(10-02-2019 05:05 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Wall St is digesting Biden going down, and Sanders having stints put in, which may mean his base consolidates with Warrens sooner. So they believe Warren will be the nominee, and if by chance she wins, will be horrible for the country.

Quite possible.

The fact that a plummet to 26k is deemed worthy of a bump is frankly embarrassing for our resident dems.

Likely yet another buying opportunity, just like it has been the last half dozen times.

(10-02-2019 05:19 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The fact that a plummet to 26k is deemed worthy of a bump is frankly embarrassing for our resident dems.

Likely yet another buying opportunity, just like it has been the last half dozen times.

Yeah, remind me what it was when Oblunder left office.

When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

Perhaps they should learn to diversify. That’s what the farmers here do. Very few soybeans planted in SC this year. Lots of cotton and peanuts though. I’ve even seen cotton fields in the Piedmont this year.

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

The DOW HAD been over 17K prior to Obama. When the election of 2016 happened, it was 19,600. Thats a 15% increase over the prior high. Obama doesnt get credit for raising a severely oversold market.

Since Trump was elected til now, we have seen a 38% increase. A 38% increase in under 3 years versus Obamas 15% over 8 years. Thats the reality of it.

(10-02-2019 08:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

The DOW HAD been over 17K prior to Obama. When the election of 2016 happened, it was 19,600. Thats a 15% increase over the prior high. Obama doesnt get credit for raising a severely oversold market.

Since Trump was elected til now, we have seen a 38% increase. A 38% increase in under 3 years versus Obamas 15% over 8 years. Thats the reality of it.

It was never 17K before Obama. The high before that was 14,164.43 (10/1/07). It went steadily downhill during 2008. But even if you want to use that 14K total, that's about the same percentage gain as Trump's gain. Please show me where I'm wrong with Dow historical totals. Here's my link.

https://www.thebalance.com/dow-jones-clo...29-3306174

(10-02-2019 08:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

The DOW HAD been over 17K prior to Obama. When the election of 2016 happened, it was 19,600. Thats a 15% increase over the prior high. Obama doesnt get credit for raising a severely oversold market.

Since Trump was elected til now, we have seen a 38% increase. A 38% increase in under 3 years versus Obamas 15% over 8 years. Thats the reality of it.

It was never 17K before Obama. The high before that was 14,164.43 (10/1/07). It went steadily downhill during 2008. But even if you want to use that 14K total, that's about the same percentage gain as Trump's gain. Please show me where I'm wrong with Dow historical totals. Here's my link.

https://www.thebalance.com/dow-jones-clo...29-3306174

Your source is bad.
100 year history of the dow

Lol...obama...the guy's a complete joke...giving him credit for the stock market? That's actually funny...

(10-02-2019 08:59 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

The DOW HAD been over 17K prior to Obama. When the election of 2016 happened, it was 19,600. Thats a 15% increase over the prior high. Obama doesnt get credit for raising a severely oversold market.

Since Trump was elected til now, we have seen a 38% increase. A 38% increase in under 3 years versus Obamas 15% over 8 years. Thats the reality of it.

It was never 17K before Obama. The high before that was 14,164.43 (10/1/07). It went steadily downhill during 2008. But even if you want to use that 14K total, that's about the same percentage gain as Trump's gain. Please show me where I'm wrong with Dow historical totals. Here's my link.

https://www.thebalance.com/dow-jones-clo...29-3306174

Your source is bad.
100 year history of the dow

Your source says the same thing as his. High before Obama was 14,164.43

(10-02-2019 09:52 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:59 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

The DOW HAD been over 17K prior to Obama. When the election of 2016 happened, it was 19,600. Thats a 15% increase over the prior high. Obama doesnt get credit for raising a severely oversold market.

Since Trump was elected til now, we have seen a 38% increase. A 38% increase in under 3 years versus Obamas 15% over 8 years. Thats the reality of it.

It was never 17K before Obama. The high before that was 14,164.43 (10/1/07). It went steadily downhill during 2008. But even if you want to use that 14K total, that's about the same percentage gain as Trump's gain. Please show me where I'm wrong with Dow historical totals. Here's my link.

https://www.thebalance.com/dow-jones-clo...29-3306174

Your source is bad.
100 year history of the dow

Your source says the same thing as his. High before Obama was 14,164.43

wrong

(10-02-2019 08:50 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-02-2019 08:20 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Obama left office, Jan 20, 2017, the Dow closed at 19,827. When he entered office, Jan 20, 2009, the Dow closed at 7,949. In other words, in his 8 years in office the Dow went up roughly 150%.

You can blame Democrats in all honesty as the impeachment proceedings are spooking Wall Street. But at the same time, Trump isn't doing anything to calm investors either. The job numbers weren't great either today. I'm more concerned about the manufacturing numbers than the stock market.

The Fed may have to lower interest rates. That would be a big win for Trump, and it would be interesting to see how the markets would respond. But I also think Trump's going to have to make some concessions for the economy's sake (re: trade wars). The midwestern states (farm states) are really hurting these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/midwests-fa...1569862178

The DOW HAD been over 17K prior to Obama. When the election of 2016 happened, it was 19,600. Thats a 15% increase over the prior high. Obama doesnt get credit for raising a severely oversold market.

Since Trump was elected til now, we have seen a 38% increase. A 38% increase in under 3 years versus Obamas 15% over 8 years. Thats the reality of it.

It was never 17K before Obama. The high before that was 14,164.43 (10/1/07). It went steadily downhill during 2008. But even if you want to use that 14K total, that's about the same percentage gain as Trump's gain. Please show me where I'm wrong with Dow historical totals. Here's my link.

https://www.thebalance.com/dow-jones-clo...29-3306174

1) Yes it was.

2) Obama had a 15% increase over a previous high in 8 years. Trump has a38% increase over Obamas best in under 3 years. Thats not remotely the same.

This is a pointless argument. For the past couple of decades the DOW has been a shell game. Deflate precious metals, deflate interest rates, and force everyone into equities. So the profit was under the equity shell. They've kept it that way and the DOW has been driven higher by contributions from Boomer's hitting peak earnings years prior to retirement.

Now the DOW is moving into a holding pattern as interest rates are kept low, but metals have started to rise due to Central Banks purchasing lots of them getting ready for the deflation that will follow the withdrawal of Boomer revenue from 401ks and 403bs. So right now they'll milk the run up to 27,000 and take profits as it bounces between 26 to 25,000 and back up to 27,000. But they know even though many Boomers are opting to work past 65 (mostly due to lower returns than they had hoped coupled with very low interest rates for CD's etc.) that by 2027 the trend will be nothing but down.

So Obama didn't drive the market up, asset manipulation that started with Greenspan did. And Trump hasn't driven it up either, beyond removing negative factors from Obama's policies. Obama was great for insurance companies who got out from under large liabilities in health insurance from the aging Boomers via the Single Payer Health Care AFA. Donald has been good for trade because he got us out of deficit positions which has helped with overall profit. His own tariffs are his headwind. The threat to the ECB that Italy poses, which is part of the impetus for Brexit, could have a negative impact on the FED and that has accounted for the accretion in the metals market and Central Banks prepare to cover their liquidity.

I think however that it puts the banks into a reasonably decent position moving forward. Keep interest rates low and an economic downturn can't really hurt them as the metals they've bought rise. Don't tighten credit and as Boomers phase out as an economic force by 2035 and labor tightens further then mortgage rates and interest can begin to inflate a bit (but nowhere near like the 70's). Prices on most commodities come down a bit and you transition to wages being able to buy more as prices come down a bit.

It's been a good transition so far in that other than derivative mortgages we haven't really had to face a great crisis. They are just slowly letting the air out of the balloon and looking to deflate stocks a bit so that Boomers can't cash it all in without a loss. That keeps cash invested while prices come down.

It's not great for Boomers, but neither will it leave a mess for those following them.

But the damned Presidents don't have a lot to do with it one way or the other except for setting a tone and expectations (good or bad).