(08-19-2019 10:41 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The stock market is one indicator of economic activity and economic health. Like temperature is one indicator of physical health.

So take a a look at all the other indicators, and tell me if you see a healthy body getting healthier, or a sick one getting sicker. Unemployment rate is down, employment is up, jobs are up, wages are up, consumer spending is up, yada, yada, yada.

I believed in lower taxes and less regulation long before 11-8-16. The last three years are just proof that I was right.

Why do leftists hate economic prosperity so much? One I know clapped her hands on the news of the 800 point drop. Made her happy that this was a black eye for Trump. And she is one of the ones who own stock.

Do you also ask when your friends when they stopped beating their wives? What a loaded question.

The issue we're discussing here is whether or not the signs of a healthy economy are being felt by all Americans. Are we seeing the rising tide raise all boats, or only the boats of certain individuals?

You're right that companies are going to react happily to lower taxes and regulations - but does that mean there is a net benefit to the actions? Because we don't live in a vacuum, cutting regulations can result in unintended consequences, which is often why a certain regulation was put in place to begin with. On the flip side, just because a regulation is in place, doesn't mean it should be sacred and off limits.

Would you agree that it is seemingly only leftists are hoping for economic negativity at the present?

Part of the question of 'affecting how much of America' is 'who is rooting for such a hurt to take place, but only prior to next November'. That is a major difference between the sides of the debate. There are overt calls and hopes for such a slowdown from the left; even in the days of recovery prior to 2012 I dont think I ever heard any right-leaning person *ever* hope for such an economic reversal that would stick it in the shorts of their political opponent.

And, to be blunt, it fits right into their 'you dont need that much' and 'fairness' mantra that is the bedrock of their message for the last 30 years.

I haven't seen any leaders of the left overtly call or hope for a slowdown. Can you send some links?

My ultra liberal brother can't stand Trump. And constantly sends me texts reminding me of that. But he's the biggest complainer when the stock market has a bad day. Unless you're a liberal in the repossession industry or maybe rent out low-income apartments, I'm not really sure why you'd root for the economy to fail. There probably are a few other industries where people are rooting for a slow economy, but they probably have both Democrats and Republicans alike in those industries.

(08-19-2019 10:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Do you also ask when your friends when they stopped beating their wives? What a loaded question.

The issue we're discussing here is whether or not the signs of a healthy economy are being felt by all Americans. Are we seeing the rising tide raise all boats, or only the boats of certain individuals?

You're right that companies are going to react happily to lower taxes and regulations - but does that mean there is a net benefit to the actions? Because we don't live in a vacuum, cutting regulations can result in unintended consequences, which is often why a certain regulation was put in place to begin with. On the flip side, just because a regulation is in place, doesn't mean it should be sacred and off limits.

In order:
No. My friends don't beat their wives. Or their husbands. Or their life partners. If they did, they would not be my friends. Any reason you thought I would be friends with domestic violators?

That is NOT the issue we are discussing. THAT is the issue you wish we were discussing. I am discussing whether or not Trump's actions have improved the economy, and whether or not a rising stock market is an indicator of such improvement. If you want to discuss that, let me know.

Companies would react happily - but the stock market is fueled by individuals(me, and maybe you), or individuals acting for their companies(Buffet). YES!!! Lad is coming to the realization that we don't live in a vacuum, and actions have consequences. For this country, the actions of Trump in cutting taxes and reducing regulation have had good consequences. Those consequences are reflected in the rise/fall of many indices, of which the Dow is just one.

Regulations are put in place for many reasons. One of them is NOT to prevent unintended consequences. One IS to prevent certain expected consequences.
So a regulation enacted to prevent certain environmental possibilities may also have certain economic consequences.

Agree with your flip side, and on the double flip side, I do not believe all regulations are bad and should be revoked. But I do believe the pendulum has swung to far.

(08-19-2019 10:57 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  My ultra liberal brother can't stand Trump. And constantly sends me texts reminding me of that. But he's the biggest complainer when the stock market has a bad day. Unless you're a liberal in the repossession industry or maybe rent out low-income apartments, I'm not really sure why you'd root for the economy to fail. There probably are a few other industries where people are rooting for a slow economy, but they probably have both Democrats and Republicans alike in those industries.

I think it is all tied up in election politics. If a bad economy, or even a stagnant one increases the probability of a Trump defeat, I think there are a lot of people in high positions in the Democratic party who would be cheered by a downturn between now and election day. Defeating Trump seems to be the most important thing to the Democrats, to the point it is a major consideration for the candidates. Medicare for all? Votes for illegals. Minimum wage? Solar power? It doesn't matter what a candidate supports, can they beat Trump? The number one consideration.

OTOH, if it were a Dem incumbent, they would be hoping for an upturn. For the same reasons - elect-ability.

The economy is not as important as winning.

But I cannot imagine a Republican saying YESSSS to a 800 point drop, no matter who is running.

I must admit, not only did I not expect Trump to win, I did not expect the stock market to take off the next day.

Up 275 today, so far.

The other surprise is FBO has a brother he considers more liberal than him. But upon reflection, I can see it.

(08-19-2019 10:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:41 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The stock market is one indicator of economic activity and economic health. Like temperature is one indicator of physical health.

So take a a look at all the other indicators, and tell me if you see a healthy body getting healthier, or a sick one getting sicker. Unemployment rate is down, employment is up, jobs are up, wages are up, consumer spending is up, yada, yada, yada.

I believed in lower taxes and less regulation long before 11-8-16. The last three years are just proof that I was right.

Why do leftists hate economic prosperity so much? One I know clapped her hands on the news of the 800 point drop. Made her happy that this was a black eye for Trump. And she is one of the ones who own stock.

Do you also ask when your friends when they stopped beating their wives? What a loaded question.

The issue we're discussing here is whether or not the signs of a healthy economy are being felt by all Americans. Are we seeing the rising tide raise all boats, or only the boats of certain individuals?

You're right that companies are going to react happily to lower taxes and regulations - but does that mean there is a net benefit to the actions? Because we don't live in a vacuum, cutting regulations can result in unintended consequences, which is often why a certain regulation was put in place to begin with. On the flip side, just because a regulation is in place, doesn't mean it should be sacred and off limits.

Would you agree that it is seemingly only leftists are hoping for economic negativity at the present?

Part of the question of 'affecting how much of America' is 'who is rooting for such a hurt to take place, but only prior to next November'. That is a major difference between the sides of the debate. There are overt calls and hopes for such a slowdown from the left; even in the days of recovery prior to 2012 I dont think I ever heard any right-leaning person *ever* hope for such an economic reversal that would stick it in the shorts of their political opponent.

And, to be blunt, it fits right into their 'you dont need that much' and 'fairness' mantra that is the bedrock of their message for the last 30 years.

I haven't seen any leaders of the left overtly call or hope for a slowdown. Can you send some links?

By the way lad, being the paragon of specificity that you resoundingly call for, I dont think I said 'leaders' as you modified the issue to read.

Quote:I agree with Josh that the answer is a resounding no. But I’m not sure whether that’s what “rooting for” a recession means. For example, if one assumes that a downturn of some kind (i.e., not a 2008-style event but a garden-variety recession) is inevitable at some point in the next five years, is it reasonable to hope that it comes at a time that reduces the probability of a racist imbecile occupying the most powerful office in the United States? I would say “of course.”

Quote:“if you believe a second Trump term would be a true disaster for the country and for the world — and I count myself among those who do — it’s not insane to have mixed feelings about all this.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/t...-chat.html

Quote:“short-term pain might be better than long-term destruction of the Constitution.”

NBC News correspondent Richard Engel.

Even take a look at the Democratic candidates, who seemingly are unceasingly negative about the economy. Look lad, it makes sense for the left to stir the pot and hope for a recession. Orange Man Bad gone is worth it for them. Considering the fundamental lengths they have gone to this point to get that done, I find it fairly funny that you dont (or cant) realize the calculus here.

From Pochahontas herself --- Sen. Warren, reliving the good old days, hopes for a recession -- Th Hill

I mean, even the other night at a neighborhood barbeque the leftists here were at a plurality speaking out that a 'recession would be good to get rid of Trump.' I find it interesting that you are so adamant that that point of view isnt common in the leftview.

(08-19-2019 10:57 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  My ultra liberal brother can't stand Trump. And constantly sends me texts reminding me of that. But he's the biggest complainer when the stock market has a bad day. Unless you're a liberal in the repossession industry or maybe rent out low-income apartments, I'm not really sure why you'd root for the economy to fail. There probably are a few other industries where people are rooting for a slow economy, but they probably have both Democrats and Republicans alike in those industries.

Oh, I think the Pelosis and Schumers of the world, not to mention the democrat presidential field, would give their right arms for the economy to crash. Maybe not Pelosi, I'm not sure she can talk without her hands, but I was going to write left nut before I remembered that Pelosi doesn't have one. Crashing the economy got Obama elected in 2008, and I think that may well be their 2020 strategy. Yeah, some people would get hurt, but that's a small price to pay to further a socialist/communist/collectivist agenda. If you read that and think that I have a really low opinion of democrats, you would be correct.

ETA: If anyone is offended by these comments, I apologize.

I am beginning to think the Democrat ideal would be a society with no wealthy and no poor. They want to tax the top of the pyramid away and make all the poor middle class by raising the MW, so all that is left is middle, middle, middle, all the same.

I think this was tried in Soviet Russia about 100 years ago. How did that work out out?

(08-19-2019 09:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am beginning to think the Democrat ideal would be a society with no wealthy and no poor. They want to tax the top of the pyramid away and make all the poor middle class by raising the MW, so all that is left is middle, middle, middle, all the same.
I think this was tried in Soviet Russia about 100 years ago. How did that work out out?

What I think they actually want is a society with a rich ruling elite and everybody else (the deplorables) poor. That's clearly the result that their policies have produced every time they have been tried.

(08-19-2019 10:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 09:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am beginning to think the Democrat ideal would be a society with no wealthy and no poor. They want to tax the top of the pyramid away and make all the poor middle class by raising the MW, so all that is left is middle, middle, middle, all the same.
I think this was tried in Soviet Russia about 100 years ago. How did that work out out?

What I think they actually want is a society with a rich ruling elite and everybody else (the deplorables) poor. That's clearly the result that their policies have produced every time they have been tried.

As I said, Soviet Russia. Huge gap between the 1% and the 99%,

They want to take the pyramid, truncate the top and the bottom, and turn it into a pancake.

I'm OK with a pyramid, as long as people can move up on their own merits. Or down.

You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.
...
D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53
https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Here is the point you miss. The democrat "solutions" to issues 1 through 7 on that list are to change our economic system, to the point of virtually destroying it. It's not that democrats are "universally united in their goal to change our economic system," it's more that they are united in their goals to do certain things that will destroy that system, and the impacts on the economy seem to be irrelevant to them. There are ways to accomplish all of them which do not damage our economy, but democrats won't consider those. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that the goal of democrats is to destroy our economy, and to use those issues as window dressing to hide their true intentions.

On the other hand, I share your concern that republicans don't address those issues at all. That's why I'm not a republican. I am sort of in a position where neither party agrees with me. I'm sort of stuck with the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and make no mistake, I consider democrats to be my enemy.

I could go down your list of issues and tell how I would address every one, but I'm pretty sure I've done that many times on this forum, so I don't see the usefulness of doing it again. If you like, I will be happy to do so, but I'm guessing you have read enough from me to know them.

I find republicans less disagreeable than democrats, although not by nearly as much as I would like. Therefore I vote libertarian and hope republicans win.

It seems to me that if I were a republican strategist or candidate, I would put forth solutions that would actually work to every one of the issues above, and shift the debate from republicans don't care about those things to who has a better plan.

FBO, your post got me to thinking, I am going to repeat how I would deal with each of these. Neither democrats nor republicans are anywhere near my solutions to any of these.

D's
1. Health Care Costs - Bismarck universal private health care, like the best systems in Europe
2. Education - we spend more than any other country by far, and get results that are at best mediocre and disappointing - completely revamp our system of education - put students on separate tracks related to their interests and aptitude, like every country that rates higher than us in the world, instead of mainstreaming them; cut out all the social engineering stuff and put that money into teachers' pockets and classroom supplies (that latter one is a biggie); have a set of national standards, but one designed by the people who are going to hire those students, instead of by the education bureaucracy, and let each state and school system decide how to meet those standards
3. Environment - cut the EPA back to addressing the environment, and get rid of a host of regulations that have nothing to do with environmental quality but exist so they can write a paycheck to some bureaucrat to enforce them; in general, revise the Administrative Procedures Act for all agencies to require congressional oversight of rule-making, sunset reviews every 10 years of every agency and its regulations, and replace the in-house administrative law judge system for adjudicating disputes with Article III administrative law courts in every federal judicial district; prioritize enforcement to go after the worst polluters; create a private right to sue for pollution damage; as for endangered species, look to alternative ways of protecting and restoring them, including private rights to them
4. Medicare - Bismarck takes care of this
5. Poor and Needy - universal subsistence level basic income, using either Milton Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund, structured to eliminate the "welfare trap" or "poverty trap" created by our current excessively narrowly focused and means-tested welfare programs; pay for it by 1) the huge administrative savings enabled by revising our approach (currently about 70% of total welfare spending is administrative, whereas the IRS as presently constituted could administer this program) and 2)a consumption tax that also balances the budget and allows us to lower and flatten our income tax rates to globally competitive levels
6. Climate Change - quit trying to tell us how bad it's going to be and start focusing on actual solutions that will have a material effect; note that while the US did not ratify Kyoto or Paris, we have reduced carbon emissions more than the countries that were signatories, and start pushing other to get with the actual program instead of talking about it
7. Social Security - raise the tax slightly to 15% (7.5/7.5); eliminate the wage and salary cap, which makes social security the most regressive tax we have; increase the full benefits starting age gradually from 66 to 70, by one month a year for 48 years; do like Sweden and implement a privatized component, by which every working American can acquire a piece of equity; make the privatized component transferrable at death, and allow borrowing from it for certain expenditures (medical emergency, education) during life
8. Economy - the combination of lower income taxes, the protective impact of consumption taxes, education reform, and rationalizing the regulatory structure will generate currency unimaginable growth; the trick will be adding infrastructure fast enough to satisfy that growth (the problem Ireland experienced); address that by privatizing a lot of infrastructure to be supported by user fees; the privatized part of social security could fund a lot of this
9. Race Relations - a strong economy, improved education, and eliminating the "poverty trap" or "welfare trap" should eliminate a lot of economic barriers; legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana and possibly other drugs will get rid of a law that vastly disproportionately affect blacks particularly, and young black males specifically; implement strategies to reduce friction between police and people of color, such as community policing, having police visit schools frequently to develop rapport with young people, and other best practices from places that have been able to improve race relations
10. Terrorism - we don't need a patRIOT act or other impositions on civl liberties; what we need is for our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to do their jobs; the morning after 9/11, every TV news show in the world was showing names and photos of the 19 hijackers; that means that there was enough information in the system, without any patRIOT act, for law enforcement to have prevented the hijackings if they had only shared information instead of operating in highly protective silos; fry the people who sat on information to make it clear that is not acceptable practice going forward; fry the people who sat on the information about the Parkland shooter and other shooters; force law enforcement to get proactive in this area; and replace the TSA single point enforcement with a defense in depth strategy that is superior from a physical security point of view

R's
1. Terrorism - see above
2. Economy - see above
T3. Immigration - adopt a rational strategy and law to increase legal immigration based on merit; grant goest worker status with not path to citizenship ("red card") to those illegals who have been here and kept their noses clean; allow anybody who serves a full hitch in the military with an honorable discharge to fast track citizenship
T3. Social Security - see above
5. Military - focus on the primary mission--war fighting--and cut out nonproductive overhead; convert 400,000 active duty slots to 1,000,000 reserve slots, saving money and increasing potential end strength; reform procurement to do more "fly before you buy," reliance on existing and proved technology, and "build to cost," in order to eliminate costly disasters like the Ford class carriers, Zumwalt destroyer, Littoral Combat Ships, the series of infantry fighting vehicle disasters; and never fight a war that we don't intend to win (that would bring home troops from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria ASAP).
6. Medicare - see above
T7. Health Care costs - see above
T7. Reducing Crime - legalize or decriminalize marijuana and possibly other drugs to free up law enforcement to focus on other crimes; make more use of restitution instead of incarceration for non-violent property crimes; reform prisons to focus on reducing recidivism
9. Education - see above
10. Budget Deficit - only way to address the deficit at current levels is a consumption tax, plus cutting overhead in places indicated aboe

That's kind of a brief summary. As I said, neither democrats nor republicans are anywhere close to my ideas on most of these. But the enemy of my enemy will have to be my friend for now.

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.
...
But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

Just had one more thought. I think you have got republicans all wrong too. The idea that you can dismiss them as "angry old men" or "deplorable" is what beat Hilary in 2016, and if you keep it up you will drive away what used to be your bread-and-butter voters in 2020.

I really think 2020 will come down to which candidate antagonizes the fewest voters. That's a very sad state of affairs, but I think we've gotten to that point.

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Let's list the things that you think matter:

1) giving lots of **** away for free;
2) having someone else pay for it;
3) the grandeur of aiding economic 'fairness' with 1 and 2;
4) charging down the yellow brick road of 'Climate Change' regardless of any scientific basis of what the extent may or may not be; and
5) making sure that no one has a gun because *you* dont like them.

Does that sound about right to you?

The funny thing is that every one of them is *you* imposing by force of law *your* ideal of nirvana on everyone else and at *their* expense. Do you even realize that?

As for 'angry old men'? Screw you. Better being an 'angry old man' who gives a fing flip above the preservation of individual rights and choices than dancing down the street to the 'fellow traveler' polka that seemingly runs through every fiber in your body.

Narrow focus.... you might be on to something. You are absolutely correct that the Democrats are going down the path (maybe already there) their of socialist/collectivist wet dream. When all one can think about is how the collective will act, well, fk yea, anything else does seemingly be fairly described as a narrow focus. By the base definition of 'collectivist'.

Kind of easy to run as the Santa Claus ticket: free education, free border pass, free racial reparations, free medical. Too bad you cant hire enough 'small people' in ad campaign as the worker elves..... Or maybe it is that in order to prostrate yourselves for some more votes the Democrats will find themselves needing to hire some NBA players to play Santa's elves in order to pander themselves the small people bloc of voting like they do every other imaginable bloc of voters.

(08-20-2019 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Let's list the things that you think matter:

1) giving lots of **** away for free;
2) having someone else pay for it;
3) the grandeur of aiding economic 'fairness' with 1 and 2;
4) charging down the yellow brick road of 'Climate Change' regardless of any scientific basis of what the extent may or may not be; and
5) making sure that no one has a gun because *you* dont like them.

Does that sound about right to you?

The funny thing is that every one of them is *you* imposing by force of law *your* ideal of nirvana on everyone else and at *their* expense. Do you even realize that?

Let the rivers burn! Let the kids go uneducated! Let the poor die of sickness!

Tanq-world sounds really bleak. I always appreciate that Owl#'s actually has ideas about how to address concerns of the citizens of this country, regardless of whether I completely agree with each of them.

(08-20-2019 09:37 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Let's list the things that you think matter:

1) giving lots of **** away for free;
2) having someone else pay for it;
3) the grandeur of aiding economic 'fairness' with 1 and 2;
4) charging down the yellow brick road of 'Climate Change' regardless of any scientific basis of what the extent may or may not be; and
5) making sure that no one has a gun because *you* dont like them.

Does that sound about right to you?

The funny thing is that every one of them is *you* imposing by force of law *your* ideal of nirvana on everyone else and at *their* expense. Do you even realize that?

Let the rivers burn! Let the kids go uneducated! Let the poor die of sickness!

Tanq-world sounds really bleak. I always appreciate that Owl#'s actually has ideas about how to address concerns of the citizens of this country, regardless of whether I completely agree with each of them.

Where did he say those things? I cannot find them. Link please.

Sounds to me like he is supporting the Constitution, and you are sneering at that.

(08-20-2019 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:37 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Let's list the things that you think matter:

1) giving lots of **** away for free;
2) having someone else pay for it;
3) the grandeur of aiding economic 'fairness' with 1 and 2;
4) charging down the yellow brick road of 'Climate Change' regardless of any scientific basis of what the extent may or may not be; and
5) making sure that no one has a gun because *you* dont like them.

Does that sound about right to you?

The funny thing is that every one of them is *you* imposing by force of law *your* ideal of nirvana on everyone else and at *their* expense. Do you even realize that?

Let the rivers burn! Let the kids go uneducated! Let the poor die of sickness!

Tanq-world sounds really bleak. I always appreciate that Owl#'s actually has ideas about how to address concerns of the citizens of this country, regardless of whether I completely agree with each of them.

Where did he say those things? I cannot find them. Link please.

Sounds to me like he is supporting the Constitution, and you are sneering at that.

Lol, what? Sounds like Tanq is supporting the Constitution? No, sounds like Tanq doesn't want to be bothered to support the commons when his only response to someone saying they care about education, the environment, healthcare costs, etc. is to attempt to chastise them for, supposedly, giving things away for free.

Tanq's response doesn't address the concerns in the way Owl#'s does, which is why I concluded he must not care about environmental regulation (rivers burning), public education (kids going uneducated), or rising healthcare costs (letting the poor die).

(08-20-2019 09:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:37 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Let's list the things that you think matter:

1) giving lots of **** away for free;
2) having someone else pay for it;
3) the grandeur of aiding economic 'fairness' with 1 and 2;
4) charging down the yellow brick road of 'Climate Change' regardless of any scientific basis of what the extent may or may not be; and
5) making sure that no one has a gun because *you* dont like them.

Does that sound about right to you?

The funny thing is that every one of them is *you* imposing by force of law *your* ideal of nirvana on everyone else and at *their* expense. Do you even realize that?

Let the rivers burn! Let the kids go uneducated! Let the poor die of sickness!

Tanq-world sounds really bleak. I always appreciate that Owl#'s actually has ideas about how to address concerns of the citizens of this country, regardless of whether I completely agree with each of them.

Where did he say those things? I cannot find them. Link please.

Sounds to me like he is supporting the Constitution, and you are sneering at that.

Lol, what? Sounds like Tanq is supporting the Constitution? No, sounds like Tanq doesn't want to be bothered to support the commons when his only response to someone saying they care about education, the environment, healthcare costs, etc. is to attempt to chastise them for, supposedly, giving things away for free.

Tanq's response doesn't address the concerns in the way Owl#'s does, which is why I concluded he must not care about environmental regulation (rivers burning), public education (kids going uneducated), or rising healthcare costs (letting the poor die).

It actually addresses it the way that your fing fellow travelers as candidates for the highest office have addressed it. Or have you fing forgot that lil ol fact there?

Oh maybe not one of them. They absolutely fing forget to say where the fk the means and money to do your fellow traveler programs will come from, didnt they?

When you put on your fing reality cap there, you do realize that his numbers 1, 2, 4, and 5 have been tossed out by your 45 candidates as free stocking stuffers, right?

So you get your fing panties in wad when I simply repeat the fing planks that *your* side's candidates for President have promulgated? Absolutely fing rich there, son. Glad to see you back in full form.

How is that pipe dream about MW being a home buying mechanism working in lad-world? You went strangely silent on that knob headed notion.

(08-20-2019 06:34 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You guys continue to completely miss the mark on priorities, but why does that surprise me when you're talking about a group of angry old men who aren't in touch with the majority of society? To hear you talk about it, Democrats are universally united in their goal to completely change our economic system.

While it's true that the Republicans #1 concern is about the economy (79 percent - actually it's #2 to terrrorism - more below), that's only the top concern of 64 percent of Democrats. Here's the top 10 most pressing issues for both parties (link below for the source).

D's
1. Health Care Costs 77
2. Education 76
3. Environment 74
4. Medicare 73
5. Poor and Needy 71
6. Climate Change 67
7. Social Security 65
8. Economy 64
9. Race Relations 57
10. Terrorism 53

R's
1. Terrorism 83
2. Economy 79
T3. Immigration and Social Security 68
5. Military 65
6. Medicare 60
T7. Health Care costs and Reducing Crime 59
9. Education 58
10. Budget Deficit 54

The massive difference between Dems and Reps in climate change (67 vs 21 being a top priority) and the environment (74 to 31) and military (31 to 65) is why I will almost always vote Democrat over Republican. IMO, the Republicans don't care enough about the things that matter, and care too much about things that are way down on my priority list.

But keep getting it wrong, y'all. That's the type of narrow focus that hopefully will allow us to regain the White House in 2020.

https://www.people-press.org/2019/01/24/...p-of-list/

Was beating Trump an option in this poll? If so, it scored 0%. Hard to believe nobody on your side wants to beat Trump. But in polls where it is an option, it comes in #1.

Republicans and democrats have different priorities. Big news. That's why there are parties.

If asked what I think Democrat's priorities are, and leaving out the Beat Trump option (as in your poll), I would say this:

It's all about race. You guys never discuss anything without getting to race. I want lower taxes. Must be because I want to make white people more powerful. I want border security. Must be because I hate Mexicans. I don't want a liberal in the White House. Must be because I am deplorable.


I support equality in the US and in the world. I do not support giving any race, ethnicity, etc., special treatment. ANY race. How racist!!!

There were things that needed correcting. They are mostly corrected. No young black man today has ever been sent to a segregated school, refused entry to a restaurant, or forced to use a segregated bathroom. I am sure lots of cops beat up and killed lots of black men...in 1952. Not so much, 2019. But if you listen to the left, to BLM and Kaepernick, it is an epidemic. Ten cases of smallpox is not an epidemic.

On climate change, I acknowledge that change is happening, just as it always has been. I do not agree that it is reversible by any measures of men, especially those promoted by some small fraction of the globe. I prefer to use our resources to prepare, rather than in futile efforts to turn back the clock. Greenland is reverting to the weather they had 1000 years ago, when they were known as Vinland. Let's adapt, not rage against the warming. Adapting is not part of the Democratic platform. Trying to turn back the clock is, but not one of you can tell me the target, when perfect climate has been restored. You do not have a goal or an end point.

The best cure for poverty is jobs. I care enough to adopt policies that will create jobs. Give people jobs, and the rest will follow - housing, education, all of it. Already, the poor here are the wealthiest poor in the world. Maybe you have never had to step over an open sewer to reach a house, as I have. And that house belonged to a wealthy man. But where in Houston do you find an open sewer to step across?

I understand why you would never vote GOP, FBO. Similar to the reason why I will never vote Democratic, again. Even the best Democrats are part of a bad gang. I like Yang. But I would not vote for him against even a generic Republican, because a President Yang would still be surrounded by the Democrats I would not vote for - Schumer, Pelosi, AOC, et al - and at the mercy of their pressure. So when the choices are unpalatable, I write in somebody, as i did in 2004 and 2016. So I understand your position - it is mine, just opposite.

How did I get to be who I am today? Owning and operating my own business(es) was a big part of it. Being awake at 4 AM on a Tuesday night wondering how I could make payroll on Friday was part of it. Wondering how far I could go without releasing any employees was part of it. Personally cosigning big notes at the bank in lieu of downsizing was part of it. Everything I owned was at risk - the house my children slept in, the clothes on my back. At times I was in debt 7 figures. Nobody else in my companies had that responsibility or pressure. Then I hear you guys cavalierly suggesting the way to fight poverty is to raise taxes on people like me. Raising my taxes would have meant releasing some employees. Something you guys do not consider.

I don't fit into the little cubbyholes you guys try to put me in. I am not a white nationalist, but I do believe in equality and fair treatment for all. I don't believe in no taxes. I do believe in a tax system that encourages business to expand and to stay in the US. I don't believe in no regulations. I do believe in minimal regulations.

Sorry to see you have stereotyped me and all conservatives. But I am used to it.

Jill Biden - my husband is the most electable

I guess the Bidens, like conservatives, have no idea what is important to Democrats.