Sources tell me (@stevenjgaither) North Carolina A&T Chancellor @WhoIsHLM told faculty members on Friday the school is looking into moving to the Football Bowl Subdivision.

Working to find out more.

http://twitter.com/stevenjgaither/status...3165783041

How many FBS programs does North Carolina need?

Really hope they’ve done more research than FAMU. The Rattlers have consistently been top 10 in fcs attendance since the creation of the division and were a perineal power before briefly transitioning 15 years ago. It was rushed and poorly researched and the effects really destroyed the program for a decade. They still haven’t recovered.

It’s one thing to say it. It’s another to beat out the likes of James Madison and Delaware.

Why not try for a bigger FCS conference first? I bet the SoCon would be interested

I am wondering where the school is going to find the money. Only $14K was donated to athletics last year.

But I think the low number might be related to season ticket donations being counted as gate last year. The normal donation rates seems to be $350K and ticket sales $1.15M, but 2018-19 the ticket sales jumped to $1.5M and donations went to almost $0.

Looking at their budget, they'd need to spend about $12M more a year to be lower half of G5. Where are they going to get that money? The Chancellor already cuts a check for $2.5M a year to keep the department running. That would almost certainly jump to $10M or more in G%, even figuring a couple million more in revenue. Is the State OK with the additional spending of tax money? Can NC A&T possibly demonstrate they can raise say $3M more in donations (10x current level) to help fund this?

Seems pretty fly by night to me.

NC A&T could succeed at FBS than the other MEAC schools.

Like all other upgrades discussed, they will need a conference. I don't see an opening

(08-16-2019 10:22 PM)3BNole Wrote:  Really hope they’ve done more research than FAMU. The Rattlers have consistently been top 10 in fcs attendance since the creation of the division and were a perineal power before briefly transitioning 15 years ago. It was rushed and poorly researched and the effects really destroyed the program for a decade. They still haven’t recovered.

Yes, when I came to Southern University in the mid-90s, FAMU and Southern were the two major powers in HBCU football, and between 1995 - 2001 they played some epic games. At our level, if was like Bowden's FSU vs Spurrier's Florida.

But FAMU got too big for their britches and made the FBS move, and as you say, they've yet to fully recover, not even close.

(08-17-2019 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:22 PM)3BNole Wrote:  Really hope they’ve done more research than FAMU. The Rattlers have consistently been top 10 in fcs attendance since the creation of the division and were a perineal power before briefly transitioning 15 years ago. It was rushed and poorly researched and the effects really destroyed the program for a decade. They still haven’t recovered.

Yes, when I came to Southern University in the mid-90s, FAMU and Southern were the two major powers in HBCU football, and between 1995 - 2001 they played some epic games. At our level, if was like Bowden's FSU vs Spurrier's Florida.

But FAMU got too big for their britches and made the FBS move, and as you say, they've yet to fully recover, not even close.

Yeah, from the perspective of someone from Tallahassee, it was a really bad move. Being from here, I pull for FAMU casually and I’ll go to a couple of their sporting events a year (mainly baseball). I actually think that the top tier of HBCUs could move to FBS and be successful (southern, grambling, famu, and a few others) BUT like any other school doing that, they’d really really have to have their ducks in a row and probably move up together and form a new conference. The problem with FAMU was that they pushed through the move without preparing for it AT ALL. I mean, they definitely have he attendance to support FBS and probably the fan following, but the facilities are severely lacking, the leadership has had serious issues for decades, and financially the athletic department is in shambles (admittedly it was somewhat better when they tried to move but still what it would need to be for fbs). I’m really not sure what the benefit would have been for them leaving all their rivals back too. Again, if there was a block moving up that would be one thing, but what happens if you leave all your peers and then start losing? That’s a quick way to kill a program.

If NC A&T were to move up I think it would be near suicidal unless they were doing so with a conference invitation. Maybe the Sunbelt would be interested in taking them and say FAMU or Tenn St; then maybe they’d have something.

So I guess Hampton's going to push for an ACC invitation now.

At some point you wonder if there's going to be a substantive challenge to the conference-invitation rule writ large and not just an exception as a consequence of a unique circumstance (Liberty). If they provide an alternate route to FBS that circumvents the conference requirement (a workable plan to ensure at least four FBS home games a season over the long-term), that might be enough to give the JMUs and NDSUs of the world an out to elevate football while not necessarily disrupting the affiliations of the rest of their programs. Though I tend to doubt that A&T would be allowed to stay in the MEAC, given how they lashed out at Hampton when they moved. So that means most likely a Big South/Atlantic Sun affiliation.

(08-17-2019 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:22 PM)3BNole Wrote:  Really hope they’ve done more research than FAMU. The Rattlers have consistently been top 10 in fcs attendance since the creation of the division and were a perineal power before briefly transitioning 15 years ago. It was rushed and poorly researched and the effects really destroyed the program for a decade. They still haven’t recovered.

Yes, when I came to Southern University in the mid-90s, FAMU and Southern were the two major powers in HBCU football, and between 1995 - 2001 they played some epic games. At our level, if was like Bowden's FSU vs Spurrier's Florida.

But FAMU got too big for their britches and made the FBS move, and as you say, they've yet to fully recover, not even close.

I am not intimate with the particulars of the FAMU aborted moveup, only that they kicked the tires and they exploded. But while this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, Winston-Salem State actually spent a few years as a transitional D1/MEAC member before dropping back to D2, where they made the D2 football title game in 2012 and have generally been among the CIAA's top teams in football, basketball and baseball. So FAMU's issues probably stem from more than just outpunting their coverage.

(08-17-2019 09:54 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If NC A&T were to move up I think it would be near suicidal unless they were doing so with a conference invitation. Maybe the Sunbelt would be interested in taking them and say FAMU or Tenn St; then maybe they’d have something.

Hard pass.

(08-16-2019 10:00 PM)Mav Wrote:  How many FBS programs does North Carolina need?

With 6 already, they have more than anyone but California, Texas, Florida and Ohio with a fraction of the talent of those states. And with 4 P5, they have more than anyone but Texas.<edit-forgot about UNCC-that makes 7>

(08-17-2019 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:00 PM)Mav Wrote:  How many FBS programs does North Carolina need?

With 6 already, they have more than anyone but California, Texas, Florida and Ohio with a fraction of the talent of those states. And with 4 P5, they have more than anyone but Texas.

NC has 7 FBS programs. The same number as CA, FL, and OH
UNC
NC State
Duke
Wake
ECU
Charlotte
App

NC also has 7 FCS programs compared to 4 from CA, 4 from FL, and 2 from OH
NC A&T
NC Central
Western Carolina
Davidson
Elon
Campbell
Gardener Webb

So NC has a total of 14 D1 football schools, 2nd only to Texas at 20 with 12 FBS/8 FCS

I posted this a couple years ago, but if anyone is interested in the story of FAMU’s failed move can read the full story here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ke-gaither It’s that episode which basically led to the NCAA making it so much more difficult to move up. Being someone who likes to look at things how it could be, FAMU really could have been successful but they rushed into it with no plan and no real goal. If they had set forth a 5-6 year plan to improve facilities, hire new staff, and raise funds before applying, they probably would have made it.

(08-17-2019 12:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:00 PM)Mav Wrote:  How many FBS programs does North Carolina need?

With 6 already, they have more than anyone but California, Texas, Florida and Ohio with a fraction of the talent of those states. And with 4 P5, they have more than anyone but Texas.

NC has 7 FBS programs. The same number as CA, FL, and OH
UNC
NC State
Duke
Wake
ECU
Charlotte
App

NC also has 7 FCS programs compared to 4 from CA, 4 from FL, and 2 from OH
NC A&T
NC Central
Western Carolina
Davidson
Elon
Campbell
Gardener Webb

So NC has a total of 14 D1 football schools, 2nd only to Texas at 20 with 12 FBS/8 FCS

There are 8 FBS Ohio schools.

(08-17-2019 12:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:00 PM)Mav Wrote:  How many FBS programs does North Carolina need?

With 6 already, they have more than anyone but California, Texas, Florida and Ohio with a fraction of the talent of those states. And with 4 P5, they have more than anyone but Texas.

NC has 7 FBS programs. The same number as CA, FL, and OH
UNC
NC State
Duke
Wake
ECU
Charlotte
App

NC also has 7 FCS programs compared to 4 from CA, 4 from FL, and 2 from OH
NC A&T
NC Central
Western Carolina
Davidson
Elon
Campbell
Gardener Webb

So NC has a total of 14 D1 football schools, 2nd only to Texas at 20 with 12 FBS/8 FCS

Exactly. The talent's not there and the high schools aren't getting better, in fact, programs are closing due to lack of interest. None of the programs in NC have been that good apart from App State. ECU's best years are behind them and the only time you see UNC good is when they're cheating their butts off. Even California and Texas have their bad programs with the amount of talent they have in those states.

If I'm A&T I look at what a disaster the Charlotte experiment's been and count my blessings.

A great theory was put forward by a connected NC A&T alum. The Chancellor is simply throwing this out as a ploy, with the target of raising $2M by the end of next year, but actually has no intention of going to FBS. The school average less than $350K a year in donations to athletics, he is seeing if he can triple that on a vague "we will consider" statement.

The thought is he raises $2M, and then decide not to go FBS, it''s just some money in the bank to help fund the Athletic program, a win.