(08-17-2019 02:12 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  A great theory was put forward by a connected NC A&T alum. The Chancellor is simply throwing this out as a ploy, with the target of raising $2M by the end of next year, but actually has no intention of going to FBS. The school average less than $350K a year in donations to athletics, he is seeing if he can triple that on a vague "we will consider" statement.

The thought is he raises $2M, and then decide not to go FBS, it''s just some money in the bank to help fund the Athletic program, a win.

Donors love to be tricked into giving money.

Right now it's just an exploratory thing. Nothing has been decided yet.

I have absolutely no information to this effect, and am just talking out loud online, but Liberty, Old Dominion, Appy, Charlotte, NCAT, Coastal, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, FIU, and FAU would make for a nice little south-Atlantic-based G conference with fairly easy travel. If Georgia State balks you could double back to JMU. Throw in UConn and UMass as football-onlies if you want to go for a 10/12 setup.

(08-17-2019 01:23 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 12:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:00 PM)Mav Wrote:  How many FBS programs does North Carolina need?

With 6 already, they have more than anyone but California, Texas, Florida and Ohio with a fraction of the talent of those states. And with 4 P5, they have more than anyone but Texas.

NC has 7 FBS programs. The same number as CA, FL, and 1 less than OH
UNC
NC State
Duke
Wake
ECU
Charlotte
App

NC also has 7 FCS programs compared to 4 from CA, 4 from FL, and 2 from OH
NC A&T
NC Central
Western Carolina
Davidson
Elon
Campbell
Gardener Webb

So NC has a total of 14 D1 football schools, 2nd only to Texas at 20 with 12 FBS/8 FCS

There are 8 FBS Ohio schools.

Youre right. Forgot Cincy. My bad

(08-17-2019 02:46 PM)Bogg Wrote:  I have absolutely no information to this effect, and am just talking out loud online, but Liberty, Old Dominion, Appy, Charlotte, NCAT, Coastal, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, FIU, and FAU would make for a nice little south-Atlantic-based G conference with fairly easy travel. If Georgia State balks you could double back to JMU. Throw in UConn and UMass as football-onlies if you want to go for a 10/12 setup.

Way to logical to ever happen

(08-17-2019 10:49 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-16-2019 10:22 PM)3BNole Wrote:  Really hope they’ve done more research than FAMU. The Rattlers have consistently been top 10 in fcs attendance since the creation of the division and were a perineal power before briefly transitioning 15 years ago. It was rushed and poorly researched and the effects really destroyed the program for a decade. They still haven’t recovered.

Yes, when I came to Southern University in the mid-90s, FAMU and Southern were the two major powers in HBCU football, and between 1995 - 2001 they played some epic games. At our level, if was like Bowden's FSU vs Spurrier's Florida.

But FAMU got too big for their britches and made the FBS move, and as you say, they've yet to fully recover, not even close.

I am not intimate with the particulars of the FAMU aborted moveup, only that they kicked the tires and they exploded. But while this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, Winston-Salem State actually spent a few years as a transitional D1/MEAC member before dropping back to D2, where they made the D2 football title game in 2012 and have generally been among the CIAA's top teams in football, basketball and baseball. So FAMU's issues probably stem from more than just outpunting their coverage.

There were two schools moving that year. Florida A&M to FBS, and Morris Brown to FCS MEAC. Morris Brown lost their accreditation which they got booted out of the NCAA and they dropped sports. They have not recovered holding at 50 students for 10 years.

(08-17-2019 12:33 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I am wondering where the school is going to find the money. Only $14K was donated to athletics last year.

But I think the low number might be related to season ticket donations being counted as gate last year. The normal donation rates seems to be $350K and ticket sales $1.15M, but 2018-19 the ticket sales jumped to $1.5M and donations went to almost $0.

Looking at their budget, they'd need to spend about $12M more a year to be lower half of G5. Where are they going to get that money? The Chancellor already cuts a check for $2.5M a year to keep the department running. That would almost certainly jump to $10M or more in G%, even figuring a couple million more in revenue. Is the State OK with the additional spending of tax money? Can NC A&T possibly demonstrate they can raise say $3M more in donations (10x current level) to help fund this?

Seems pretty fly by night to me.

THIS!

The school has had a Capital Campaign for just $85M which has been around since 2012!!!
https://www.greensboro.com/news/educatio...62dff.html

They termed it as a "quiet phase" because they could not raise any d@mn money.

Now, they think that they could afford FBS coaching salaries, FBS opponent fee(s), and the additional cost of attendance?

Indy/ASUN, if anyone is looking to join without a conference. ASUN would have no problem taking a school. They are always looking to expand since it's really not a stable conference. It's really good and on the rise but not stable with NJIT and the other football schools. The NCAA has no case if a school took them to court with the whole conference invite.

As for NCA&T, I don't think it's possible but what do I know. IMO, JMU and Jax St are the only two that can make that move.

(08-17-2019 05:51 PM)LUbball23 Wrote:  Indy/ASUN, if anyone is looking to join without a conference. ASUN would have no problem taking a school. They are always looking to expand since it's really not a stable conference. It's really good and on the rise but not stable with NJIT and the other football schools. The NCAA has no case if a school took them to court with the whole conference invite.

As for NCA&T, I don't think it's possible but what do I know. IMO, JMU and Jax St are the only two that can make that move.

2018 average attendance.
1.Jackson State 24,770
2.Montana 24,677
3.James Madison 20,911
4.Southern 18,803
5.North Dakota State 18,106
6.Florida A&M 17,873
7.Jacksonville State 16,904
8.Montana State 16,471
9.Delaware 16,299
10.Alabama State 16,073
11.North Carolina A&T 15,494
12.Alcorn State 15,184

Those 12 could make the average 15,000 requirement for FBS.

FBS from lowest attendance average.
1.Ball State 10,288
2.UMass. 10,385
3.Northern Illinois 10,404
4.Coastal Carolina 10,463
5.Charlotte 11,711
6.Central Mich. 12,840
7.Texas State 13,115
8.Kent State 13,118
9.New Mexico State 13,706
10.UTEP 14,155
11.La.-Monroe 14,210
12.Western Kentucky 14,231
13.Miami Ohio 14,253
14.San Jose State 14,255

Trade out either Charlotte or Coastal Carolina, N.C. A&T would have boasted C-USA or SBC attendance up.

It is one reason I said adding Jackson State to the SBC could help since the fans do show up even if they are losing.

Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

(08-17-2019 06:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

The HBCUs from the SWAC and MEAC are often disparaged at the FCS level, but they dominate FCS attendance.

2018 FCS attendance by conference:

1. SWAC .......................................... 15,240
2. Missouri Valley Football ................... 9,864
3. MEAC ........................................... 9,815
4. Big Sky ......................................... 9,600
5. Colonial ........................................ 9,283
6. Southern ...................................... 7,611
7. Ohio Valley ................................... 7,507
8. Southland ..................................... 7,161
9. Ivy ............................................... 7,108
10. Patriot ......................................... 4,212
11. Big South ..................................... 3,614
12. Pioneer ........................................ 2,684
13. Northeast ..................................... 2,343

(08-17-2019 06:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 06:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

The HBCUs from the SWAC and MEAC are often disparaged at the FCS level, but they dominate FCS attendance.

2018 FCS attendance by conference:

1. SWAC .......................................... 15,240
2. Missouri Valley Football ................... 9,864
3. MEAC ........................................... 9,815
4. Big Sky ......................................... 9,600
5. Colonial ........................................ 9,283
6. Southern ...................................... 7,611
7. Ohio Valley ................................... 7,507
8. Southland ..................................... 7,161
9. Ivy ............................................... 7,108
10. Patriot ......................................... 4,212
11. Big South ..................................... 3,614
12. Pioneer ........................................ 2,684
13. Northeast ..................................... 2,343

That's the only thing they dominate.

(08-17-2019 06:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  2018 average attendance.
1.Jackson State 24,770
2.Montana 24,677
3.James Madison 20,911
4.Southern 18,803
5.North Dakota State 18,106
6.Florida A&M 17,873
7.Jacksonville State 16,904
8.Montana State 16,471
9.Delaware 16,299
10.Alabama State 16,073
11.North Carolina A&T 15,494
12.Alcorn State 15,184

Those 12 could make the average 15,000 requirement for FBS.

FBS from lowest attendance average.
1.Ball State 10,288
2.UMass. 10,385
3.Northern Illinois 10,404
4.Coastal Carolina 10,463
5.Charlotte 11,711
6.Central Mich. 12,840
7.Texas State 13,115
8.Kent State 13,118
9.New Mexico State 13,706
10.UTEP 14,155
11.La.-Monroe 14,210
12.Western Kentucky 14,231
13.Miami Ohio 14,253
14.San Jose State 14,255

Trade out either Charlotte or Coastal Carolina, N.C. A&T would have boasted C-USA or SBC attendance up.

It is one reason I said adding Jackson State to the SBC could help since the fans do show up even if they are losing.

Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

If any MEAC or SWAC school moved up to FBS on their own their attendance would drop dramatically. The rivalries that draw the large numbers would be completely gone.

(08-17-2019 07:41 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 06:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 06:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

The HBCUs from the SWAC and MEAC are often disparaged at the FCS level, but they dominate FCS attendance.

2018 FCS attendance by conference:

1. SWAC .......................................... 15,240
2. Missouri Valley Football ................... 9,864
3. MEAC ........................................... 9,815
4. Big Sky ......................................... 9,600
5. Colonial ........................................ 9,283
6. Southern ...................................... 7,611
7. Ohio Valley ................................... 7,507
8. Southland ..................................... 7,161
9. Ivy ............................................... 7,108
10. Patriot ......................................... 4,212
11. Big South ..................................... 3,614
12. Pioneer ........................................ 2,684
13. Northeast ..................................... 2,343

That's the only thing they dominate.

Well, it's also easily the most important thing, much more than say winning FCS playoff games.

Sun Belt was very interested in FAMU. League was needing teams and the location fit nicely and once they looked at the books, could not get out of town fast enough. Accountant who looked said I can't tell you what their condition is because its all a mess. Then hosed their I-A transfers by announcing immediately so they had transferred to be immediately eligible and suddenly needed to sit a year.

If FAMU had not been in such a hurry they probably do OK.

A&T if I were advising them, I'd say prepare like you want to be the top FCS and that way you are in position if something opens in FBS.

(08-18-2019 10:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Sun Belt was very interested in FAMU. League was needing teams and the location fit nicely and once they looked at the books, could not get out of town fast enough. Accountant who looked said I can't tell you what their condition is because its all a mess. Then hosed their I-A transfers by announcing immediately so they had transferred to be immediately eligible and suddenly needed to sit a year.

If FAMU had not been in such a hurry they probably do OK.

Well, FAMU tells a different story. They say *they* were caught off-guard by how quickly the NCAA approved their move to FBS. Rather than being in a hurry, they assumed there would be at least a year's lag, which would allow them the time to sort those issues you mention out. But the NCAA, maybe to help out an HBCU, approved the move instantly, with the resulting problems.

On their 2003 application, FAMU sought FBS status for the 2004 season. But the NCAA actually approved them for the 2003 season, which started just a few months after the application. So they had no time to make any adjustments. Even one year might have been enough.

A key problem was that in the 2002/2003 recruiting cycle, FAMU had signed a bunch of transfers from FBS programs in anticipation of becoming FBS in 2004, including guys from Clemson, VT, and Miami. The coach, and the players, thought they would be immediately eligible to play in 2003, because they were transferring from an FBS to an FCS program. That was a key part of the pitch to these guys, that yes, you are transferring to an FCS school, but we will be FBS after a year, and in the meantime, because we will still be FCS your first year, you can play right now and not sit out.

But once FAMU was declared FBS for 2003, those guys were told they would have to sit out a year like all FBS to FBS transfers, and just about all of them left, severely draining the talent out of that class.

You know, if they could figure out the funding aspect of things (and yes, that's the big part) this is probably doable. They should be able to settle into long-term scheduling agreements with Liberty, NMSU, UConn, and UMass, and that coupled with two FCS games and two buy games is 2/3s of your annual schedule off the bat. Army has the same later-season scheduling concerns the rest of the independents do and North Carolina is good military recruiting ground, so I imagine they'd cycle in and out of the schedule as well. You may only really be looking for three or four home and homes at a time.

(08-17-2019 11:11 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 06:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  2018 average attendance.
1.Jackson State 24,770
2.Montana 24,677
3.James Madison 20,911
4.Southern 18,803
5.North Dakota State 18,106
6.Florida A&M 17,873
7.Jacksonville State 16,904
8.Montana State 16,471
9.Delaware 16,299
10.Alabama State 16,073
11.North Carolina A&T 15,494
12.Alcorn State 15,184

Those 12 could make the average 15,000 requirement for FBS.

FBS from lowest attendance average.
1.Ball State 10,288
2.UMass. 10,385
3.Northern Illinois 10,404
4.Coastal Carolina 10,463
5.Charlotte 11,711
6.Central Mich. 12,840
7.Texas State 13,115
8.Kent State 13,118
9.New Mexico State 13,706
10.UTEP 14,155
11.La.-Monroe 14,210
12.Western Kentucky 14,231
13.Miami Ohio 14,253
14.San Jose State 14,255

Trade out either Charlotte or Coastal Carolina, N.C. A&T would have boasted C-USA or SBC attendance up.

It is one reason I said adding Jackson State to the SBC could help since the fans do show up even if they are losing.

Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

If any MEAC or SWAC school moved up to FBS on their own their attendance would drop dramatically. The rivalries that draw the large numbers would be completely gone.

Tennessee St. found that out when they joined the Ohio Valley.

(08-18-2019 09:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 07:41 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 06:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-17-2019 06:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Wonder what it would look like if the top 12 in FCS in attendance if they were in FBS?

The HBCUs from the SWAC and MEAC are often disparaged at the FCS level, but they dominate FCS attendance.

2018 FCS attendance by conference:

1. SWAC .......................................... 15,240
2. Missouri Valley Football ................... 9,864
3. MEAC ........................................... 9,815
4. Big Sky ......................................... 9,600
5. Colonial ........................................ 9,283
6. Southern ...................................... 7,611
7. Ohio Valley ................................... 7,507
8. Southland ..................................... 7,161
9. Ivy ............................................... 7,108
10. Patriot ......................................... 4,212
11. Big South ..................................... 3,614
12. Pioneer ........................................ 2,684
13. Northeast ..................................... 2,343

That's the only thing they dominate.

Well, it's also easily the most important thing, much more than say winning FCS playoff games.

LOL no. Having a competitive product other than the bands (which draws a good portion of the attendance) is the goal.

FAMU had signed a TV deal that was expected to bring in big revenue. Unfortunately, it was with a fly by night company with no carriage that would have been off the air before the first FBS season.
https://rattlernation.blogspot.com/2019/...-from.html

Perhaps the question we need to be asking is under what circumstances could an HBCU or HBCUs make it in FBS?

For starters, I think they’d need a travel friendly regional conference home and I don’t think they could go at it alone. I think at a minimum 2 would have to come up together, potentially needing 4. I think they’d also need FCS HBCU schools willing to play them at home or in a neutral site classic setting. Any HBCU moving up to FBS would need to plan on playing 2 FCS HBCUs a year to maintain fan interest among those rooted in the HBCU identity.

With that being said, I don’t know that I’m the present situation there are any FBS conferences interested in adding 4 HBCU schools.