(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:36 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:23 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I’ll read it when I have time. Are you dismissing the notion that it could also be the fact that our behavior on social media and the behavior of the news media could be main factors?

I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

Do you have any evidence that mass shooters identify as less religious than others? No "no true Scotsman" please.

Do you feel like this "rejection of God" has become a bigger issue in recent years?

Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

(08-04-2019 11:00 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

I'm tired of hearing that talking point.

His political opponents have been calling him AND his voters, nazis, racists, white supremacists and Russian collaborators from day 1.

Who the hell are you people to call out hatred and division? What a bunch of flaming hypocrites.

You people dish out hatred and division every hour of every day.

I think it’s a valid talking point. Yours is as well.

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:34 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Devaluation of life. From video games to abortion to violent movies, the youth of this country are growing up desensitized. No God or higher power. God is mocked and man’s the new deity. All of this is not surprising.

The lives of many Americans have been devalued since the founding of this nation. Look no further than the Constitution, which counted slaves as only 3/5's of a human, not fully human. It continues through the history of slavery (trading humans as property), lynchings and KKK night rides, Blacks being spit on for trying to get an equal education, police using hoses and dogs on peaceful protestors. We just heard another recent example with then-Governor, and later President, Ronald Reagan referring to African as monkeys...to the great delight of sitting President Nixon.

Some lives have always been devalued by our society at large. It continues today with shootings (mass or not), physical and sexual abuse of children, our treatment of immigrant children, and much more.

I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

We have a party, the Democrats, whose existence depends on stoking the fires of hatred and division. DJT obviously doesn't help matters. He provides lots of triggers, but its the Democrats and media who are stoking the fires.

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:36 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

Do you have any evidence that mass shooters identify as less religious than others? No "no true Scotsman" please.

Do you feel like this "rejection of God" has become a bigger issue in recent years?

Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

(08-04-2019 11:01 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:36 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:23 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I’ll read it when I have time. Are you dismissing the notion that it could also be the fact that our behavior on social media and the behavior of the news media could be main factors?

I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

Do you have any evidence that mass shooters identify as less religious than others? No "no true Scotsman" please.

Do you feel like this "rejection of God" has become a bigger issue in recent years?

Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

In the U.S., but that's not true in all parts of the world.

For instance, France has been undergoing a Christian revival for the past few years.

Is there a Christian revival starting in France?

This article is from 2015, but the trend has continued.

And this is happening in a lot of Asian countries. Heck, even China has seen a massive growth in Christianity.

No, God's not dead. And He won't be.


Heck, I thought everybody realized that's the case given His Resurrection a couple of thousand years ago.

There may be some good signs in France but Christianity as a whole has practically died in Europe. Empty and abandoned churches are everywhere, many are being converted into business and such.

There will ALWAYS be a thriving chruch in some parts of the world, because Christ, the Bible and the Gospel are REAL. Even in the coming great tribulation, there will be a thriving and growing chruch, but that does not mean the world is still not going in the wrong direction.

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:36 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Do you have any evidence that mass shooters identify as less religious than others? No "no true Scotsman" please.

Do you feel like this "rejection of God" has become a bigger issue in recent years?

Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Its not BS at all, its just a set of facts that apparently offend you.

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:36 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Do you have any evidence that mass shooters identify as less religious than others? No "no true Scotsman" please.

Do you feel like this "rejection of God" has become a bigger issue in recent years?

Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Maybe godlessness is a major contributing factor. Or even if you don’t believe in God, good behavior is definitely given less attention and validation than bad.

Both incidents are sad. I feel for victims in both places along with their family and friends.

But the Dems especially those running for office aren’t letting a tragedy going to waste.

The best I’ve heard is someone on Fox asking Tim Ryan after he blamed Trump and claimed Trump could end it. The interviewer said if it was that easy why hasn’t it been done especially why didn’t Obama end it? Ryan got upset and stated Obama is not on trial but Trump should.

CNN had Booker and asked about what about handgun violence in places like NY and Chicago with strict gun laws. He got mad and his answer went off on a tangent and blamed Trump.

I’m done with these guys. They have the ability to do something but don’t they’re too concerned with fake investigations or getting re-elected instead of their jobs. Clean house.

(08-04-2019 11:12 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Its not BS at all, its just a st of facts that apparently offend you.

It does nothing to dispute my point. I responded to your point, that was about violent crime, with actual facts. You've responded with appeals to emotion and now red herrings. Suicide and drug abuse, birth rates, etc are a different subject. Nice try with the "haha you're offended" line, though.

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:38 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:23 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:17 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  That is a stunning comment. I don't see how anyone could pretend those are not serious root issues here. Unless they just don't want to for some reason.

The Bible tells us quite clearly these ARE the root problems. So does common sense imo.

Read Romans chapter 2 for starters, these issues ARE at the root.

I’ll read it when I have time. Are you dismissing the notion that it could also be the fact that our behavior on social media and the behavior of the news media could be main factors?

I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

That’s my fault, I shouldn’t have dismissed everything outright. I guess we disagree on the weight each factor holds. I just think it’s that real people dehumanize people and desensitize the youth more than video games and movies.

Its a big mistake to pretend movies, TV and games do not have a big impact on how people think and view the world.

They have massive impacts on everyone.

I too denied those facts for many years, now I see how foolish I was being. Our pride and ego blind us too that truth, and everyone is guilty of it. Me included.

I agree that those things have a big impact. I just don’t think the violence on it moves the needle more than the news.

(08-04-2019 11:06 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:00 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

I'm tired of hearing that talking point.

His political opponents have been calling him AND his voters, nazis, racists, white supremacists and Russian collaborators from day 1.

Who the hell are you people to call out hatred and division? What a bunch of flaming hypocrites.

You people dish out hatred and division every hour of every day.

I think it’s a valid talking point. Yours is as well.

The problem is a lot of things they claim are hatred from Trump are not hatred at all, just blunt facts and reality.

We live in an era were truth and reality are offensive.

Does Trump say offensive things at times? YES

Are his opponents totally full of it and just blindly scream RACISM and HATRED over every single thing he says and does? YES

I have seen WAY more examples of him being FALSELY accused of such things than when he was justifiable called out on it.

(08-04-2019 11:16 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:12 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Its not BS at all, its just a st of facts that apparently offend you.

It does nothing to dispute my point. I responded to your point, that was about violent crime, with actual facts. You've responded with appeals to emotion and now red herrings. Suicide and drug abuse, birth rates, etc are a different subject. Nice try with the "haha you're offended" line, though.

I already disputed your point, you just didn't like the answer.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

(08-04-2019 11:14 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Maybe godlessness is a major contributing factor. Or even if you don’t believe in God, good behavior is definitely given less attention and validation than bad.

I'm open to that conversation, but the idea is that godlessness is on the rise in recent years and contributes to these events. I asked specifically how that squares with the overall trend of lower violent crime and what I got in response was unhelpful at best.

(08-04-2019 11:18 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:14 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:55 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I'm not disputing the first point, but there are millions of secular people who would never conceive of doing something like this. I'm just interested whether you have any real non-faith based evidence that there's a correlation.

To the second point: So how does that square with the fact that violent crime has been on an overall decrease for quite a long time? Bullet points out that crime may be leveling off or trending slightly up rather than decreasing in the short term and that may well be the case, but if there is some crisis of a Godless world view, why doesn't that seem to show up in the statistics?

I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Maybe godlessness is a major contributing factor. Or even if you don’t believe in God, good behavior is definitely given less attention and validation than bad.

I'm open to that conversation, but the idea is that godlessness is on the rise in recent years and contributes to these events. I asked specifically how that squares with the overall trend of lower violent crime and what I got in response was unhelpful at best.

You got a very helpful response, you just don't like it. Mass murder by younger and younger people is just one of many signs that our culture is in full decline.

Mass murder is not the only way of measuring a declining society, Actually overall violence typically drops in a decadent society in decline. People find less violent means of self destruction as a society.

(08-04-2019 11:27 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:18 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:14 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:05 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I did not remotely call ALL secular people for the violent acts of a few. That is just a silly straw man.

2- because violent mass murder is NOT the only measure of a decline in society. It shows up in a LOT of ways from record suicide and drug addict rates, mass sexual dysfunction and confusion, the dying family unit, the lack of child birth, and a dozen other things.

I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Maybe godlessness is a major contributing factor. Or even if you don’t believe in God, good behavior is definitely given less attention and validation than bad.

I'm open to that conversation, but the idea is that godlessness is on the rise in recent years and contributes to these events. I asked specifically how that squares with the overall trend of lower violent crime and what I got in response was unhelpful at best.

You got a very helpful response, you just don't like it. Mass murder by younger and younger people is just one of many signs that our culture is in full decline.

Mass murder is not the only way of measuring a declining society, Actually overall violence typically drops in a decadent society in decline. People find less violent means of self destruction as a society.

Do you really think young people are more "decadent" now than they were during the sexual revolution?

I won't argue that a lot of people are rejecting what the Bible purports to teach. My issue is with framing this as something new with the younger generation.

(08-04-2019 11:32 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:27 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:18 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:14 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I didn't say you called out all secular people. I'm just saying there are millions of secular people that would never conceive of it, and I'm assuming you agree, so again I'm asking for any evidence that there's a correlation. You have responded with nothing.

2nd point is, I'm sorry, complete BS. You came in this thread about a violent crime and lamented secularism and godlessness as a major contributing factor. All that other stuff is completely off topic and a red herring.

Maybe godlessness is a major contributing factor. Or even if you don’t believe in God, good behavior is definitely given less attention and validation than bad.

I'm open to that conversation, but the idea is that godlessness is on the rise in recent years and contributes to these events. I asked specifically how that squares with the overall trend of lower violent crime and what I got in response was unhelpful at best.

You got a very helpful response, you just don't like it. Mass murder by younger and younger people is just one of many signs that our culture is in full decline.

Mass murder is not the only way of measuring a declining society, Actually overall violence typically drops in a decadent society in decline. People find less violent means of self destruction as a society.

Do you really think young people are more "decadent" now than they were during the sexual revolution?

I won't argue that a lot of people are rejecting what the Bible purports to teach. My issue is with framing this as something new with the younger generation.

Absolutely they are. Are you seriously arguing otherwise?

Thing have changed a lot just since I was in HS in the early 90's. Online Hookups and internet sex have EXPLODED. Children routinely search out & watch internet porn, even at 5-6 years old now. 12 year olds don't have to hope to find magazines or tapes from a neighborhood friend, its 100% free and on their cell phone 24/7 now. They can even personalized it now. We are a FAR more hypersexualized society in the last 20 years.

There have been MASSIVE changes in the internet generation. Anyone denying this is simply denying reality.

Denying reality is a common practice now though.

(08-04-2019 09:33 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 08:34 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Devaluation of life. From video games to abortion to violent movies, the youth of this country are growing up desensitized. No God or higher power. God is mocked and man’s the new deity. All of this is not surprising.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with any of that stuff. Those things either aren’t particularly realistic or new. People know the difference between video games/movies and real life and religion has served as the basis for dehumanizing people for millennia. That’s nothing new.

What is new and using real life are our 24-hour news networks (and yes, FOX counts) and social media. We also have politicians openly treating the opposition like ****. Hilary Clinton called people that didn’t support her “deplorables” and Trump has dehumanized everyone at some point or another. Hell, political message boards such as this dehumanize the opposition on the regular and they give validation to that behavior. We have an EL PASO guy that calls the opposition demons. There are examples on the liberal side as well, but that stood out to me in particular.

Nasty politics has made the slide into everyday life and it’s become harder and harder to avoid.

You think it has no impact? Why do you think the silhouette target was adopted by the U.S. Military? To shoot at a human form desensitizes those who are adverse to the taking of life. Most military targets aren't close enough to see the features of the human face so shooting a form then becomes easier. The FBI wanted to teach when to shoot and used real images of people for their Hogan's ally test. What they didn't tell the agents is that by putting faces on the pop ups they were further desensitizing them.

Video games turns the taking of life into a points rating system and the movies turn those who are able to gun down many into heroes.

All of that is just taking the desensitizing to a much different level. So much so that the military now uses video games to not only desensitize for combat but for remote drone strikes as well.

So you bet you life it is about desensitizing! And movies and TV portrayals of people billed as heroes being able to take life on a mass scale is a very common theme whether it is Rambo or Reacher or even Wonder Woman the point is the same. If you have perceived enemies then taking on a mass of them is heroic.

If you don't believe in God then the prohibition on taking life is less, and if you believe that people are as common as ants then aborting one isn't a problem either since there is nothing inherently sacred about life.

It all plays together in the minds of people who frequently are barely by age adults, and likely by emotional development still adolescents, but who are nonetheless old enough to buy weapons and are the most likely to carry out this kind of attack.

As to the suicide with rage angle, that likely has many contributing factors as well, but making their death meaningful by getting TV coverage and taking out a lot of innocent people they see as targets is certainly an idea that is widely propagated by the media and film and TV industry.

(08-04-2019 11:10 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:01 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:49 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:36 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:26 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I did not dismiss anything, you are the one who dismissed things. Its not a matter of choosing one or the other, they all play a role.

The rejection of God and worship of self and pleasure seeking combined with a desensitized youth are core issues.

Do you have any evidence that mass shooters identify as less religious than others? No "no true Scotsman" please.

Do you feel like this "rejection of God" has become a bigger issue in recent years?

Well whether you like it or not, there is a massive difference between politically identifying with a religion and being a bible believing Christian. That is just a fact, even if its one you don't like to acknowledge.

And yes, the facts show that secularism and a Godless world view and culture are on the rise, and rising even faster in the internet age.

In the U.S., but that's not true in all parts of the world.

For instance, France has been undergoing a Christian revival for the past few years.

Is there a Christian revival starting in France?

This article is from 2015, but the trend has continued.

And this is happening in a lot of Asian countries. Heck, even China has seen a massive growth in Christianity.

No, God's not dead. And He won't be.


Heck, I thought everybody realized that's the case given His Resurrection a couple of thousand years ago.

There may be some good signs in France but Christianity as a whole has practically died in Europe. Empty and abandoned churches are everywhere, many are being converted into business and such.

There will ALWAYS be a thriving chruch in some parts of the world, because Christ, the Bible and the Gospel are REAL. Even in the coming great tribulation, there will be a thriving and growing chruch, but that does not mean the world is still not going in the wrong direction.

The world will always go in the wrong direction due to the nature of man.

But, and I know you know this, Christ reigns supreme and will continue to bless and curse nations until the final day.

I recently ran across discussion stating that because nations are not physical being, they are blessed and cursed in the present time. Nations will not be present at Judgement Day, so their judgements days are now.

(08-04-2019 11:35 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:32 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:27 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:18 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:14 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Maybe godlessness is a major contributing factor. Or even if you don’t believe in God, good behavior is definitely given less attention and validation than bad.

I'm open to that conversation, but the idea is that godlessness is on the rise in recent years and contributes to these events. I asked specifically how that squares with the overall trend of lower violent crime and what I got in response was unhelpful at best.

You got a very helpful response, you just don't like it. Mass murder by younger and younger people is just one of many signs that our culture is in full decline.

Mass murder is not the only way of measuring a declining society, Actually overall violence typically drops in a decadent society in decline. People find less violent means of self destruction as a society.

Do you really think young people are more "decadent" now than they were during the sexual revolution?

I won't argue that a lot of people are rejecting what the Bible purports to teach. My issue is with framing this as something new with the younger generation.

Absolutely they are. Are you seriously arguing otherwise?

Thing have changed a lot just since I was in HS in the early 90's. Online Hookups and internet sex have EXPLODED. Children routinely search pout watch internet porn, even at 5-6 years old now. 12 year olds don't have to hope to find magazines or tapes from a neighborhood friend, its 100% free and on their cell phone 24/7 now. They can even personalized it now. We are a FAR more hypersexualized society in the last 20 years.

There have been MASSIVE changes in the internet generation. Anyone denying this is simply denying reality.

https://teens.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/te...ver-mostly

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...on/573949/

Pornography use I'm sure is up, so if you think that's inherently bad I'll give you that. If people are looking at it too young that would seem to be on the parents (not that different than poorly hiding your Playboys, though admittedly more destructive with the internet).

Drug abuse and sex (both frequency and number of partners), though, appear to be on the decline among young people. Plenty more evidence out there if you want to look. Why does this seem to be a debate between the facts and your feelings?

(08-04-2019 11:17 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:06 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 11:00 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-04-2019 10:53 AM)TheOrigamiJimmyChin Wrote:  I think in general we are in a better place than we were 50 and 100 and 200 years ago, but we have a President today that is stoking the fires of hatred and division.

I'm tired of hearing that talking point.

His political opponents have been calling him AND his voters, nazis, racists, white supremacists and Russian collaborators from day 1.

Who the hell are you people to call out hatred and division? What a bunch of flaming hypocrites.

You people dish out hatred and division every hour of every day.

I think it’s a valid talking point. Yours is as well.

The problem is a lot of things they claim are hatred from Trump are not hatred at all, just blunt facts and reality.

We live in an era were truth and reality are offensive.

Does Trump say offensive things at times? YES

Are his opponents totally full of it and just blindly scream RACISM and HATRED over every single thing he says and does? YES

I have seen WAY more examples of him being FALSELY accused of such things than when he was justifiable called out on it.

Well Trump was right when he said about "The Squad": "‘progressive’ Democrat congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all)"

I don't why the President of the United States chose to say that publicly about America, but I think there was a lot of blunt truth in there.

I don't think Trump voters are all Nazis, racists and White supremacists. But it is a fact that Nazis, racists and White supremacists have come out and applauded his statements on a number of occasions. They like what he says.

And I also agree with you that truth has become offensive... At least to our President. He cries "fake news" on a daily basis. He lies constantly.

I think we'd both agree that too many Democrat leaders are more concerned about Trump's tweets than trying to solve our problems. But Donald Trump says such shocking, blatantly wrong things that it's difficult to let it slide. I have to assume it's calculated in some way on Trump's part. I'd hate to believe he really believes everything he says. He's not exactly a shining example of what you want your kid to grow up to be.