Been waiting for this sleeping giant to wake up since joining the ACC. I’m not going to hold my breath any longer. At best they can hope to achieve a season like 2017, win 10 games and go to a decent bowl...that’s it, that’s their new ceiling. Once upon a time da U could cherry pick the greatest high school talent on earth right out of their own back yard. Now this same back yard is being harvested by everybody else. Even if they were able to fence in their borders you really need more than just talent, you need a large support staff of coaches, trainers, nutritionist, doctors, consultants, facilities, etc. to be an elite team now a days, talent alone just does not cut it. This was part of Bobby Bowden’s downfall as college football changed and he failed to adapt.

Manny Diaz might do ok at UM, but da U itself is dead.

(07-19-2019 02:39 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Been waiting for this sleeping giant to wake up since joining the ACC. I’m not going to hold my breath any longer. At best they can hope to achieve a season like 2017, win 10 games and go to a decent bowl...that’s it, that’s their new ceiling. Once upon a time da U could cherry pick the greatest high school talent on earth right out of their own back yard. Now this same back yard is being harvested by everybody else. Even if they were able to fence in their borders you really need more than just talent, you need a large support staff of coaches, trainers, nutritionist, doctors, consultants, facilities, etc. to be an elite team now a days, talent alone just does not cut it. This was part of Bobby Bowden’s downfall as college football changed and he failed to adapt.

Manny Diaz might do ok at UM, but da U itself is dead.

Trade 'em for Kentucky......quick!
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-football/

(07-19-2019 02:39 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Been waiting for this sleeping giant to wake up since joining the ACC. I’m not going to hold my breath any longer. At best they can hope to achieve a season like 2017, win 10 games and go to a decent bowl...that’s it, that’s their new ceiling. Once upon a time da U could cherry pick the greatest high school talent on earth right out of their own back yard. Now this same back yard is being harvested by everybody else. Even if they were able to fence in their borders you really need more than just talent, you need a large support staff of coaches, trainers, nutritionist, doctors, consultants, facilities, etc. to be an elite team now a days, talent alone just does not cut it. This was part of Bobby Bowden’s downfall as college football changed and he failed to adapt.

Manny Diaz might do ok at UM, but da U itself is dead.

Next question: Do we have proof that FSU is coming back any better than Miami?

(07-19-2019 03:52 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(07-19-2019 02:39 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Been waiting for this sleeping giant to wake up since joining the ACC. I’m not going to hold my breath any longer. At best they can hope to achieve a season like 2017, win 10 games and go to a decent bowl...that’s it, that’s their new ceiling. Once upon a time da U could cherry pick the greatest high school talent on earth right out of their own back yard. Now this same back yard is being harvested by everybody else. Even if they were able to fence in their borders you really need more than just talent, you need a large support staff of coaches, trainers, nutritionist, doctors, consultants, facilities, etc. to be an elite team now a days, talent alone just does not cut it. This was part of Bobby Bowden’s downfall as college football changed and he failed to adapt.

Manny Diaz might do ok at UM, but da U itself is dead.

Next question: Do we have proof that FSU is coming back any better than Miami?

Yes. FSU already came “back” under Jimbo Fisher. He actually made a lot of changes to FSUs program including all the things I mentioned in my OP. It takes a huge budget to be among the elite. It’s no coincidence that all the playoff teams are the same people who dumps buckets of money in their program on these support staffs and facilities. You absolutely have to bring your program into the modern age, otherwise you get UM results.

(07-19-2019 03:52 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  Next question: Do we have proof that FSU is coming back any better than Miami?

Stones from glass houses, etc.

It’s certainly an interesting theory and who knows, it may well be right. However, I have my doubts. I think with the right coaching staff and administrative support, Miami will be just fine.

It'd be pretty tough to get back to the place they were ... 5 national championships total, 4 of those in 9 years with 3 different coaches.

Florida State has never done that.

Hell .. nobody has done that.

Miami still has the 305, etc...within 90 miles. Never count them out for a run to excellence but I do agree another run like they had is not too likely.

That said it is crazy to say they can't win another Natty

Finances changed the game and many don't seem to understand that.

Miami's location makes them very unique, but they don't have the money to 'make a come back.'

FSU has a bigger booster base, but I am not certain they have the means either.

Every year that goes by, these schools with great locations but lesser means than SEC schools (getting $20 or so million a year more from their conference and bigger booster bases) make it less likely they can come back.

That is the reality. The ACC will likely never admit that reality (which makes things worse because you can't mitigate for issues when you don't admit they are there).

Hey, where is Green?

I would have thought that he would have weighed in on this with a nice, catchy line.

Some of you guys are completely LOCO if you think Miami cant get it back together again. Miami has never had huge attendance or a large booster base, or a lot of money. But they have always thrived. I cant wait to see some of you guys choke on your negativity when Miami gets it together again. I mean someone actually said FSU may never get it together again. FSU just won a dog-on national championship just 4 years ago.

The coaching staff is the one that let it go downhill at FSU. Not the boosters, not the attendance, not the money. JIMBO FISHER is to blame. When Miami gets the right coach, its going to be hard for other programs to go down into south Florida and take the recruits that Miami wants. I know of one certain coach who calls the Carrier Dome home, who would be perfect for Miami and the local recruits. But that's our little secret. Hope he never goes down there. But he would be perfect. But this is a great thread during our dead period, but its crazy.

(07-20-2019 12:56 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  Some of you guys are completely LOCO if you think Miami cant get it back together again. Miami has never had huge attendance or a large booster base, or a lot of money. But they have always thrived. I cant wait to see some of you guys choke on your negativity when Miami gets it together again. I mean someone actually said FSU may never get it together again. FSU just won a dog-on national championship just 4 years ago.

The coaching staff is the one that let it go downhill at FSU. Not the boosters, not the attendance, not the money. JIMBO FISHER is to blame. When Miami gets the right coach, its going to be hard for other programs to go down into south Florida and take the recruits that Miami wants. I know of one certain coach who calls the Carrier Dome home, who would be perfect for Miami and the local recruits. But that's our little secret. Hope he never goes down there. But he would be perfect. But this is a great thread during our dead period, but its crazy.

In my fifty five years of observing college football, the difference is almost always coaching.

That is the case whether it is Miami, FSU, LSU, Alabama, Notre Dame, or Slippery Rock.

(07-20-2019 01:02 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 12:56 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  Some of you guys are completely LOCO if you think Miami cant get it back together again. Miami has never had huge attendance or a large booster base, or a lot of money. But they have always thrived. I cant wait to see some of you guys choke on your negativity when Miami gets it together again. I mean someone actually said FSU may never get it together again. FSU just won a dog-on national championship just 4 years ago.

The coaching staff is the one that let it go downhill at FSU. Not the boosters, not the attendance, not the money. JIMBO FISHER is to blame. When Miami gets the right coach, its going to be hard for other programs to go down into south Florida and take the recruits that Miami wants. I know of one certain coach who calls the Carrier Dome home, who would be perfect for Miami and the local recruits. But that's our little secret. Hope he never goes down there. But he would be perfect. But this is a great thread during our dead period, but its crazy.

In my fifty five years of observing college football, the difference is almost always coaching.

That is the case whether it is Miami, FSU, LSU, Alabama, Notre Dame, or Slippery Rock.

Agreed (in slightly fewer years, perhaps). Money is relevant, but only to the extent that you need money to hire a good coach and staff. Fancy locker rooms, etc. probably don't matter all that much, tbh. Coaching matters plenty!

(07-20-2019 09:38 AM)nole Wrote:  Finances changed the game and many don't seem to understand that.

Miami's location makes them very unique, but they don't have the money to 'make a come back.'

FSU has a bigger booster base, but I am not certain they have the means either.

Every year that goes by, these schools with great locations but lesser means than SEC schools (getting $20 or so million a year more from their conference and bigger booster bases) make it less likely they can come back.

That is the reality. The ACC will likely never admit that reality (which makes things worse because you can't mitigate for issues when you don't admit they are there).

Compare and contrast with Nebraska. The Cornhuskers get a hefty Big 10 paycheck, and I would bet heavily they'll never be close to what they once were

Miami has a winning history and they are in rich recruiting territory. They have a better chance to come back then a lot of schools do

(07-19-2019 02:39 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Been waiting for this sleeping giant to wake up since joining the ACC. I’m not going to hold my breath any longer. At best they can hope to achieve a season like 2017, win 10 games and go to a decent bowl...that’s it, that’s their new ceiling. Once upon a time da U could cherry pick the greatest high school talent on earth right out of their own back yard. Now this same back yard is being harvested by everybody else. Even if they were able to fence in their borders you really need more than just talent, you need a large support staff of coaches, trainers, nutritionist, doctors, consultants, facilities, etc. to be an elite team now a days, talent alone just does not cut it. This was part of Bobby Bowden’s downfall as college football changed and he failed to adapt.

Manny Diaz might do ok at UM, but da U itself is dead.

College football has a "to be the best, you have to beat the best" Mentality

Texas had to get over Oklahoma in the 2000s to really be elite. Look at what wins did for Louisville over FSU and Ole Miss wins over Alabama did. They shot up to the top, granted neither could sustain it

The point is, as long as Clemson is a top dog, an upset win would shoot any ACC team up. Young players want to play for winners, and that factor still dominates today.

Miami doesn't play Clemson this year, but a win out of the gates against Florida would create some sparks. If Manny Diaz starts creating some good defenses down there, you could see things change faster than you think

Well, thanks to the CFP it's Alabama and Clemson.

All the rest of us are pretty much in the same boat.

(07-20-2019 10:04 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Hey, where is Green?

I would have thought that he would have weighed in on this with a nice, catchy line.

Green seemed to have disappeared...hopefully he comes back.

(07-20-2019 04:36 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:38 AM)nole Wrote:  Finances changed the game and many don't seem to understand that.

Miami's location makes them very unique, but they don't have the money to 'make a come back.'

FSU has a bigger booster base, but I am not certain they have the means either.

Every year that goes by, these schools with great locations but lesser means than SEC schools (getting $20 or so million a year more from their conference and bigger booster bases) make it less likely they can come back.

That is the reality. The ACC will likely never admit that reality (which makes things worse because you can't mitigate for issues when you don't admit they are there).

Compare and contrast with Nebraska. The Cornhuskers get a hefty Big 10 paycheck, and I would bet heavily they'll never be close to what they once were

Miami has a winning history and they are in rich recruiting territory. They have a better chance to come back then a lot of schools do

The end of their infinite non-qualifiers has a lot to do with that as well.

(07-20-2019 04:36 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:38 AM)nole Wrote:  Finances changed the game and many don't seem to understand that.

Miami's location makes them very unique, but they don't have the money to 'make a come back.'

FSU has a bigger booster base, but I am not certain they have the means either.

Every year that goes by, these schools with great locations but lesser means than SEC schools (getting $20 or so million a year more from their conference and bigger booster bases) make it less likely they can come back.

That is the reality. The ACC will likely never admit that reality (which makes things worse because you can't mitigate for issues when you don't admit they are there).

Compare and contrast with Nebraska. The Cornhuskers get a hefty Big 10 paycheck, and I would bet heavily they'll never be close to what they once were

Miami has a winning history and they are in rich recruiting territory. They have a better chance to come back then a lot of schools do

Fantastic comparison. Nail meet EvilVodka -- he just hammered you.

(07-22-2019 09:41 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 04:36 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-20-2019 09:38 AM)nole Wrote:  Finances changed the game and many don't seem to understand that.

Miami's location makes them very unique, but they don't have the money to 'make a come back.'

FSU has a bigger booster base, but I am not certain they have the means either.

Every year that goes by, these schools with great locations but lesser means than SEC schools (getting $20 or so million a year more from their conference and bigger booster bases) make it less likely they can come back.

That is the reality. The ACC will likely never admit that reality (which makes things worse because you can't mitigate for issues when you don't admit they are there).

Compare and contrast with Nebraska. The Cornhuskers get a hefty Big 10 paycheck, and I would bet heavily they'll never be close to what they once were

Miami has a winning history and they are in rich recruiting territory. They have a better chance to come back then a lot of schools do

Fantastic comparison. Nail meet EvilVodka -- he just hammered you.

Due to geography and population dynamics, Nebraska is basically Iowa now. They'll have the occasional 10-2 season, but they will have to endure a lot of 7-5/8-4 and even the occasional sub .500 seasons in between. They'll never be the program they were under Bob Devaney or Tom Osbourne.