(06-06-2019 06:51 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Tell the truth Pervis

U of L was the only game in town for decades. Louisville is the economic capital of the that part of the Ohio River Valley. You suckered the YUM authority. You never lost sight of the goal to make U of L athletically relevant. I applaud your audacity.

Well you are right on some points ... wildly wrong on others ... but that's understandable.


The Yum deal is misunderstood. By many. Especially the blue bellies who are sick they can't find a way to have the local and state government underwrite a "new Rupp Arena". So they cry about "abusing the tax payers" ... but in reality, the tax payers exposure is capped. And the revenues that U of L "makes" off the arena aren't as great as people think. And got smaller after the deal was renegotiated within the last year or so.

The reason the state and local government built the arena in the first place, was to try and lure an NBA franchise to town. But they couldn't build the arena without a primary tenant .. so they arm twisted U of L ... and then demanded they use a site that cost an extra $100 million dollars so they could "clean up" a power plant facility that was smack dab on the river, further enhancing the downtown district as a place to visit/party. A good idea in theory, but stupid idea economically because of how this ballooned the cost of building an arena. Which is where the story of U of L abusing the taxpayers come from ... but U of L wanted two other sites for the arena, that got shot down.

Phase 2 of those political people is well under way --- that is demonize U of L to the point they feel they have to loosen up the restrictions they demanded to move there in the first place, so that an NBA team COULD use the facility too.

We'll see if they are ever successful in their goal. Luckily, the arena is getting older, and NBA owners want a sparking new facility ... so as time progresses, the NBA dream fades.


But you are right in general. Although, I'd say not only are we the economic engine of the Ohio River Valley, but of the entire state. The tax imbalance is a giant sucking sound of money leaving Jefferson Co, for the poorer areas of the commonwealth ... but I digress ....

Tom Jurich tapped into some private individuals, to aggressively fund raise, and build out athletic facilities all over campus. It was audacious. And the original plan included an on-campus basketball arena ... not being a tenant in a city/state owned facility in downtown.

And it certainly helped to not be competing with pro franchises for those same entertainment dollars. It is VERY common, to see U of L fans that are transplants to the city, that graduated from other schools. They have "adopted" U of L as their hometown team, and buy tickets to events, supporting the program as it grows. It is a huge advantage we have over many ....

Sorry for dipping too much into local politics in addressing your post. That can be tedious.

(06-06-2019 07:30 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Do you expand from 40K? Yes but not sure 60-65K is the right call

I think 60-65K is risky if you have an extended down period and the younger generation stays away. We'll see in about 10 years.

I think for Louisville there's a big difference between 60k and 65k in terms of what's the right number. The last expansion was originally announced more in the 65k range, but was ultimately lowered and capacity is 61k. There won't be a ton of games sold out in the near future, but the suites sold out from the expansion and that revenue is key.

That's not to say there isn't some risk, but the expansion wasn't about adding more standard seating. The added seating was simply to fill in around the suites they wanted.

(06-07-2019 07:41 AM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 07:30 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Do you expand from 40K? Yes but not sure 60-65K is the right call

I think 60-65K is risky if you have an extended down period and the younger generation stays away. We'll see in about 10 years.

I think for Louisville there's a big difference between 60k and 65k in terms of what's the right number. The last expansion was originally announced more in the 65k range, but was ultimately lowered and capacity is 61k. There won't be a ton of games sold out in the near future, but the suites sold out from the expansion and that revenue is key.

That's not to say there isn't some risk, but the expansion wasn't about adding more standard seating. The added seating was simply to fill in around the suites they wanted.

I agree with this take. Just IMHO I think 50-55K would be about perfect but I understand why it went larger (Teddy, Lamar, Bobby P., etc...)

I hope to make it to Louisville this Fall but the game falls on a horrible week for travel and weather is always a concern in late November. I wish this game was in October.

(06-06-2019 09:25 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 06:51 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Tell the truth Pervis

U of L was the only game in town for decades. Louisville is the economic capital of the that part of the Ohio River Valley. You suckered the YUM authority. You never lost sight of the goal to make U of L athletically relevant. I applaud your audacity.

Well you are right on some points ... wildly wrong on others ... but that's understandable.


The Yum deal is misunderstood. By many. Especially the blue bellies who are sick they can't find a way to have the local and state government underwrite a "new Rupp Arena". So they cry about "abusing the tax payers" ... but in reality, the tax payers exposure is capped. And the revenues that U of L "makes" off the arena aren't as great as people think. And got smaller after the deal was renegotiated within the last year or so.

The reason the state and local government built the arena in the first place, was to try and lure an NBA franchise to town. But they couldn't build the arena without a primary tenant .. so they arm twisted U of L ... and then demanded they use a site that cost an extra $100 million dollars so they could "clean up" a power plant facility that was smack dab on the river, further enhancing the downtown district as a place to visit/party. A good idea in theory, but stupid idea economically because of how this ballooned the cost of building an arena. Which is where the story of U of L abusing the taxpayers come from ... but U of L wanted two other sites for the arena, that got shot down.

Phase 2 of those political people is well under way --- that is demonize U of L to the point they feel they have to loosen up the restrictions they demanded to move there in the first place, so that an NBA team COULD use the facility too.

We'll see if they are ever successful in their goal. Luckily, the arena is getting older, and NBA owners want a sparking new facility ... so as time progresses, the NBA dream fades.


But you are right in general. Although, I'd say not only are we the economic engine of the Ohio River Valley, but of the entire state. The tax imbalance is a giant sucking sound of money leaving Jefferson Co, for the poorer areas of the commonwealth ... but I digress ....

Tom Jurich tapped into some private individuals, to aggressively fund raise, and build out athletic facilities all over campus. It was audacious. And the original plan included an on-campus basketball arena ... not being a tenant in a city/state owned facility in downtown.

And it certainly helped to not be competing with pro franchises for those same entertainment dollars. It is VERY common, to see U of L fans that are transplants to the city, that graduated from other schools. They have "adopted" U of L as their hometown team, and buy tickets to events, supporting the program as it grows. It is a huge advantage we have over many ....

Sorry for dipping too much into local politics in addressing your post. That can be tedious.

YUM is not about the tenants. It's that Louisville got all the revenue and YUM got squat for years. I'm not wildly wrong about that. Just jealous that the NC Centennial Authority we smarter or not in the tank for NC State.

We've been through that rodeo in North Carolina. U of L never wanted pro competition in Town because U of L is not stupid. If you are claiming Jurich and others did not take advantage of some Louisville yokels let me move away before lighting strikes you. U of L put the City and the State over a barrel, and made sure U of L stayed the only game in town.

True brilliance.

(06-03-2019 09:06 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Let's face it, the best way for the ACC to "close the gap" is to get rid of NC State and WF. Their reduncancy in the league is apparent and sadly both are worth more to the SEC and the B10 respectively. A solid entry into North Carolina is valuable to the the SEC and Big 10. WF can compete in all B10 and SEC sports except football. NC State can compete in all sports, but will never make it over the top unless they can use their southern location as a relative advantage.

As WF builds it's new medical campus in Charlotte with Carolina's/Atrium Health, their move is on - they have moved before. Four schools in one state is a mess. Just ask California and Texas.

Wake Forest has no worth outside of the ACC. Show me one conference that's just "gotta have the Deacs". Maybe they can land a spot in CUSA as a travel partner for UNC@Char.

NCSU should have pulled an "A&M" years ago by flipped off UNC@Chap and gone to the SEC. Their football program would be a monster in that conference. I still think thats the only play the SEC has for getting into the North Carolina market and it's all they need. NCSU is smack dab in the middle of the state. No need for a second team, esp. a welfare recipient like Wake.

(06-11-2019 12:44 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  

(06-03-2019 09:06 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Let's face it, the best way for the ACC to "close the gap" is to get rid of NC State and WF. Their reduncancy in the league is apparent and sadly both are worth more to the SEC and the B10 respectively. A solid entry into North Carolina is valuable to the the SEC and Big 10. WF can compete in all B10 and SEC sports except football. NC State can compete in all sports, but will never make it over the top unless they can use their southern location as a relative advantage.

As WF builds it's new medical campus in Charlotte with Carolina's/Atrium Health, their move is on - they have moved before. Four schools in one state is a mess. Just ask California and Texas.

Wake Forest has no worth outside of the ACC. Show me one conference that's just "gotta have the Deacs". Maybe they can land a spot in CUSA as a travel partner for UNC@Char.

NCSU should have pulled an "A&M" years ago by flipped off UNC@Chap and gone to the SEC. Their football program would be a monster in that conference. I still think thats the only play the SEC has for getting into the North Carolina market and it's all they need. NCSU is smack dab in the middle of the state. No need for a second team, esp. a welfare recipient like Wake.

Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

That would not make sense. Too many teams in NC already.

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 12:44 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  

(06-03-2019 09:06 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Let's face it, the best way for the ACC to "close the gap" is to get rid of NC State and WF. Their reduncancy in the league is apparent and sadly both are worth more to the SEC and the B10 respectively. A solid entry into North Carolina is valuable to the the SEC and Big 10. WF can compete in all B10 and SEC sports except football. NC State can compete in all sports, but will never make it over the top unless they can use their southern location as a relative advantage.

As WF builds it's new medical campus in Charlotte with Carolina's/Atrium Health, their move is on - they have moved before. Four schools in one state is a mess. Just ask California and Texas.

Wake Forest has no worth outside of the ACC. Show me one conference that's just "gotta have the Deacs". Maybe they can land a spot in CUSA as a travel partner for UNC@Char.

NCSU should have pulled an "A&M" years ago by flipped off UNC@Chap and gone to the SEC. Their football program would be a monster in that conference. I still think thats the only play the SEC has for getting into the North Carolina market and it's all they need. NCSU is smack dab in the middle of the state. No need for a second team, esp. a welfare recipient like Wake.

Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

NO!

(06-11-2019 06:33 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

That would not make sense. Too many teams in NC already.

Exactly. I agree that four teams in NC in the ACC is two too many. NCSU to the SEC. Wake to CUSA. Duke and UNC@Chap stay put. ACC add UCONN and West Virginia to sew up the East Coast. The ACC gets stronger and NCSU comes into its own as a "Football First" school.

(06-12-2019 08:30 AM)8BitPirate Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:33 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

That would not make sense. Too many teams in NC already.

Exactly. I agree that four teams in NC in the ACC is two too many. NCSU to the SEC. Wake to CUSA. Duke and UNC@Chap stay put. ACC add UCONN and West Virginia to sew up the East Coast. The ACC gets stronger and NCSU comes into its own as a "Football First" school.

Adding UCONN is not going to help the ACC, ever.

(06-12-2019 08:59 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Adding UCONN is not going to help the ACC, ever.

Yep.

And, it's not going to happen, ever. Same as NC State leaving the ACC. Or, Wake. Or adding West Virginia. Or certainly adding EZU. Ever. Maybe, it should be "never", but you get the viewpoint.

I used to pimp for UConn to the ACC but they are a freaking mess right now.

They need to prove first they have a fan base and facilities to compete. However, the NE can only support so many FB teams...adding UConn to P5 status would hurt SU and BC some in recruiting but would give them a close rival.

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 12:44 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  

(06-03-2019 09:06 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Let's face it, the best way for the ACC to "close the gap" is to get rid of NC State and WF. Their reduncancy in the league is apparent and sadly both are worth more to the SEC and the B10 respectively. A solid entry into North Carolina is valuable to the the SEC and Big 10. WF can compete in all B10 and SEC sports except football. NC State can compete in all sports, but will never make it over the top unless they can use their southern location as a relative advantage.

As WF builds it's new medical campus in Charlotte with Carolina's/Atrium Health, their move is on - they have moved before. Four schools in one state is a mess. Just ask California and Texas.

Wake Forest has no worth outside of the ACC. Show me one conference that's just "gotta have the Deacs". Maybe they can land a spot in CUSA as a travel partner for UNC@Char.

NCSU should have pulled an "A&M" years ago by flipped off UNC@Chap and gone to the SEC. Their football program would be a monster in that conference. I still think thats the only play the SEC has for getting into the North Carolina market and it's all they need. NCSU is smack dab in the middle of the state. No need for a second team, esp. a welfare recipient like Wake.

Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

(06-12-2019 04:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 12:44 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  

(06-03-2019 09:06 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Let's face it, the best way for the ACC to "close the gap" is to get rid of NC State and WF. Their reduncancy in the league is apparent and sadly both are worth more to the SEC and the B10 respectively. A solid entry into North Carolina is valuable to the the SEC and Big 10. WF can compete in all B10 and SEC sports except football. NC State can compete in all sports, but will never make it over the top unless they can use their southern location as a relative advantage.

As WF builds it's new medical campus in Charlotte with Carolina's/Atrium Health, their move is on - they have moved before. Four schools in one state is a mess. Just ask California and Texas.

Wake Forest has no worth outside of the ACC. Show me one conference that's just "gotta have the Deacs". Maybe they can land a spot in CUSA as a travel partner for UNC@Char.

NCSU should have pulled an "A&M" years ago by flipped off UNC@Chap and gone to the SEC. Their football program would be a monster in that conference. I still think thats the only play the SEC has for getting into the North Carolina market and it's all they need. NCSU is smack dab in the middle of the state. No need for a second team, esp. a welfare recipient like Wake.

Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

Disagree about Northwestern. Have you seen what they just opened on the shore of Lake Michigan? NW has played at a pretty high level in FB over the last 15-20 years.

(06-13-2019 07:32 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 12:44 PM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Wake Forest has no worth outside of the ACC. Show me one conference that's just "gotta have the Deacs". Maybe they can land a spot in CUSA as a travel partner for UNC@Char.

NCSU should have pulled an "A&M" years ago by flipped off UNC@Chap and gone to the SEC. Their football program would be a monster in that conference. I still think thats the only play the SEC has for getting into the North Carolina market and it's all they need. NCSU is smack dab in the middle of the state. No need for a second team, esp. a welfare recipient like Wake.

Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

Disagree about Northwestern. Have you seen what they just opened on the shore of Lake Michigan? NW has played at a pretty high level in FB over the last 15-20 years.

I know XLance and StateFan don't want to hear this, but from a metrics p.o.v, Wake Forest = Cincinnati, not Northwestern.

(06-13-2019 07:52 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 07:32 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

Disagree about Northwestern. Have you seen what they just opened on the shore of Lake Michigan? NW has played at a pretty high level in FB over the last 15-20 years.

I know XLance and StateFan don't want to hear this, but from a metrics p.o.v, Wake Forest = Cincinnati, not Northwestern.

Match the teams to the credentials (between WF, Cincy, Northwestern and Vandy):

School A: 13 bowl games all-time, 2 conference championships, 450-647-33 all-time record

School B: 18 bowl games, 14 conferences titles, 614-589-50 record

School C: 15 Bowl games, 8 conference crowns, 534-659-44 record

School D: 9 Bowls, 14 conference titles, 606-620-50 record.

(06-13-2019 09:20 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 07:52 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 07:32 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  
NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

Disagree about Northwestern. Have you seen what they just opened on the shore of Lake Michigan? NW has played at a pretty high level in FB over the last 15-20 years.

I know XLance and StateFan don't want to hear this, but from a metrics p.o.v, Wake Forest = Cincinnati, not Northwestern.

Match the teams to the credentials (between WF, Cincy, Northwestern and Vandy):

School A: 13 bowl games all-time, 2 conference championships, 450-647-33 all-time record

School B: 18 bowl games, 14 conferences titles, 614-589-50 record

School C: 15 Bowl games, 8 conference crowns, 534-659-44 record

School D: 9 Bowls, 14 conference titles, 606-620-50 record.

A. Northwestern
B. Cincy
C. Vandy
D. Wake

Just my guess...no cheating

(06-13-2019 07:52 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 07:32 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

Disagree about Northwestern. Have you seen what they just opened on the shore of Lake Michigan? NW has played at a pretty high level in FB over the last 15-20 years.

I know XLance and StateFan don't want to hear this, but from a metrics p.o.v, Wake Forest = Cincinnati, not Northwestern.

Absent a better measuring stick: US NEWS rankings
Northwestern #10
Wake Forest #27
Univ. of Cincinnati #147

The better "fit" in addition to Northwestern would be Vanderbilt (#14).

(06-12-2019 08:59 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 08:30 AM)8BitPirate Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:33 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-11-2019 06:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  Can ECU have Wake's seat in ACC after Wake leaves for SEC?

That would not make sense. Too many teams in NC already.

Exactly. I agree that four teams in NC in the ACC is two too many. NCSU to the SEC. Wake to CUSA. Duke and UNC@Chap stay put. ACC add UCONN and West Virginia to sew up the East Coast. The ACC gets stronger and NCSU comes into its own as a "Football First" school.

Adding UCONN is not going to help the ACC, ever.

Adding UConn and West Virgina will do little or nothing for ACC. We need to add Notre Dame and Texas. That is the long term goal. Meanwhile, we can wait.

(06-13-2019 10:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 07:52 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 07:32 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 04:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  
NO!

WF will out compete Vandy in the SEC and NW in the Big 10. It's wrong to call Wake a welfare recipient. JF may disagree with me on this, but WF is just more athletically motivated that outsiders realize. They just wont go down the Baylor path.

Disagree about Northwestern. Have you seen what they just opened on the shore of Lake Michigan? NW has played at a pretty high level in FB over the last 15-20 years.

I know XLance and StateFan don't want to hear this, but from a metrics p.o.v, Wake Forest = Cincinnati, not Northwestern.

Absent a better measuring stick: US NEWS rankings
Northwestern #10
Wake Forest #27
Univ. of Cincinnati #147

The better "fit" in addition to Northwestern would be Vanderbilt (#14).

US News ranking is all about academics. The smaller the size of the classroom, the higher the score. The football is on the opposite. The bigger the school population, the better the football program is. That is why private schools like Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wake Forest and Boston College score higher in academics but perform generally worse on football field. Chance is that you choose a football team from 40,000 students will be better than the one from 4,000 students.