Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.

Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.

Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.

One would think that the administration of all universities are examining this story closely and hopefully are learning some lessons from it.

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.

Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.

Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

If they did, they knew to keep their mouth shut.

(06-10-2019 08:40 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.

One would think that the administration of all universities are examining this story closely and hopefully are learning some lessons from it.

Certainly.

But to be honest, the mistakes Oberlin has made seem so obvious and so contrary to common sense that I suspect the chief reaction from most peer institutions is less "What can we learn from Oberlin?" and more "How could Oberlin be so stupid?".

That's certainly seems to be the view of the Rice folks I've talked with this morning.

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship in your mind? I see one.

If not, I can now see why one might have utterly shocked when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, *and* Ohio went the way that they did if one does not recognize that 'relationship dynamic'.

(06-10-2019 12:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship in your mind? I see one.

If not, I can now see why one might have utterly shocked when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, *and* Ohio went the way that they did if one does not recognize that 'relationship dynamic'.

See my previous posts re: Oberlin. I agree that the university and the students blew it (assuming there is no good evidence to suggest that the business behaved in a racist manner).

Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

I certainly get the impression that the left thinks they are smarter than the right, just from the sweeping generalizations the left likes to promulgate.

(06-10-2019 01:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

I certainly get the impression that the left thinks they are smarter than the right, just from the sweeping generalizations the left likes to promulgate.

As usual... this goes both ways. It's funny to me that some of you act like it is one-way traffic when it comes to this.

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 10:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Oberlin’s cluelessness is morbidly fascinating.
Before trial, Oberlin had moved for a change of venue (to Cleveland), saying that the college could not expect fair treatment in their home county after all the negative public comments that had been made about the college. It claimed that the community had rushed to judgment against the college.
Do you think anyone in the campus administration saw any irony in this argument?

It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship in your mind? I see one.

If not, I can now see why one might have utterly shocked when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, *and* Ohio went the way that they did if one does not recognize that 'relationship dynamic'.

See my previous posts re: Oberlin. I agree that the university and the students blew it (assuming there is no good evidence to suggest that the business behaved in a racist manner).

Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

Let me restate as perhaps my first sentence was not well constructed.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship with the liberal/progressive to libertarian/conservative attitude in your mind? I see one.

Yes, I live in a progressive salient -- but the attitude here is palpable in that regard. Many times explicit.

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

Te fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.

That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

(06-10-2019 01:16 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's just a logical extension of the typical left wing, "We're smarter than you, so we can run your life better than you can," condescension. And none of them realizes the condescension.

You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship in your mind? I see one.

If not, I can now see why one might have utterly shocked when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, *and* Ohio went the way that they did if one does not recognize that 'relationship dynamic'.

See my previous posts re: Oberlin. I agree that the university and the students blew it (assuming there is no good evidence to suggest that the business behaved in a racist manner).

Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

Let me restate as perhaps my first sentence was not well constructed.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship with the liberal/progressive to libertarian/conservative attitude in your mind? I see one.

Yes, I live in a progressive salient -- but the attitude here is palpable in that regard. Many times explicit.

Surely there will be conflict when you have two populations thrown together at opposite sides of the political spectrum. Especially when one of the sides is about as extreme as there is in this country. So yes.. the attitudes of these opposing groups certainly played a role in this mess. And without further material to back up the Oberlin side, it seems that they royally screwed the pooch here.

What type of attitudes might a progressive experience in a conservative salient?

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

Te fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.

That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

I don't take issue that there is a smugness associated some percentage of progressives that Fox News loves to amplify. Do I think that this helped Trump win in 2016? Yes.

Would you argue that CNN/MSNBC likes to amplify the percentage of the right that is racist?

Maybe or maybe not related... but a thought exercise... if an independent reviewer were to read all the posts on "Trump Administration" over the past few months... do you think that he or she would find the conservatives or the progressives among us to be smug and/or arrogant?

My point is that there are some here who paint all progressives with a broad brush which is hardly ever a great thing to do.

(06-10-2019 02:04 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

The fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.
That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

I don't take issue that there is a smugness associated some percentage of progressives that Fox News loves to amplify. Do I think that this helped Trump win in 2016? Yes.
Would you argue that CNN/MSNBC likes to amplify the percentage of the right that is racist?
Maybe or maybe not related... but a thought exercise... if an independent reviewer were to read all the posts on "Trump Administration" over the past few months... do you think that he or she would find the conservatives or the progressives among us to be smug and/or arrogant?
My point is that there are some here who paint all progressives with a broad brush which is hardly ever a great thing to do.

I certainly agree that CNN/MSNBC like to amplify the tiny percentage of the right that is racist. I know as many leftists as rightists who are truly racist, and it is a tiny percentage of both.

I think the smug, arrogant, condescension is far more pervasive on the left than on the right, and certainly far more than racism on the right. I just heard something that resonates with me--that leftists don't move much outside their own circle. That would certainly seem to apply to leftist politicians, newscasters, and other leaders on the left. I don't think they realize how smug, arrogant, and condescending they come across to those who disagree with them, because I don't think they interact much with those who disagree. And any difference of opinion is met with more smug, arrogant, condescension.

As far as your "independent reviewer" thought exercise, I think such a reviewer would find far more smug, arrogant, condescension from the left. But this forum may be a poor choice of sample, because most people here, on both sides, are intellectual equals and approach it that way. I certainly don't see Oberlin-level tone deafness, probably because we are essentially all Rice people.

I don't think painting all leftists with a broad brush is appropriate. I frequently make the distinction between well-meaning people in the rank and file on the democrat side (and I know many) and the smug, arrogant, condescending leaders on the left. But I don't think that brush is too broad for the progressive leadership.

(06-10-2019 02:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:04 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

The fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.
That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

I don't take issue that there is a smugness associated some percentage of progressives that Fox News loves to amplify. Do I think that this helped Trump win in 2016? Yes.
Would you argue that CNN/MSNBC likes to amplify the percentage of the right that is racist?
Maybe or maybe not related... but a thought exercise... if an independent reviewer were to read all the posts on "Trump Administration" over the past few months... do you think that he or she would find the conservatives or the progressives among us to be smug and/or arrogant?
My point is that there are some here who paint all progressives with a broad brush which is hardly ever a great thing to do.

I certainly agree that CNN/MSNBC like to amplify the tiny percentage of the right that is racist. I know as many leftists as rightists who are truly racist, and it is a tiny percentage of both.

I think the smug, arrogant, condescension is far more pervasive on the left than on the right, and certainly far more than racism on the right. I just heard something that resonates with me--that leftists don't move much outside their own circle. That would certainly seem to apply to leftist politicians, newscasters, and other leaders on the left. I don't think they realize how smug, arrogant, and condescending they come across to those who disagree with them, because I don't think they interact much with those who disagree. And any difference of opinion is met with more smug, arrogant, condescension.

As far as your "independent reviewer" thought exercise, I think such a reviewer would find far more smug, arrogant, condescension from the left. But this forum may be a poor choice of sample, because most people here, on both sides, are intellectual equals and approach it that way. I certainly don't see Oberlin-level tone deafness, probably because we are essentially all Rice people.

I don't think painting all leftists with a broad brush is appropriate. I frequently make the distinction between well-meaning people in the rank and file on the democrat side (and I know many) and the smug, arrogant, condescending leaders on the left. But I don't think that brush is too broad for the progressive leadership.

A very impressive political feat that the GOP has managed to execute is painting themselves as "of the people" while the Democrats are the "elites". Whether or not that is true has become secondary.

(06-10-2019 02:33 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:04 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

The fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.
That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

I don't take issue that there is a smugness associated some percentage of progressives that Fox News loves to amplify. Do I think that this helped Trump win in 2016? Yes.
Would you argue that CNN/MSNBC likes to amplify the percentage of the right that is racist?
Maybe or maybe not related... but a thought exercise... if an independent reviewer were to read all the posts on "Trump Administration" over the past few months... do you think that he or she would find the conservatives or the progressives among us to be smug and/or arrogant?
My point is that there are some here who paint all progressives with a broad brush which is hardly ever a great thing to do.

I certainly agree that CNN/MSNBC like to amplify the tiny percentage of the right that is racist. I know as many leftists as rightists who are truly racist, and it is a tiny percentage of both.

I think the smug, arrogant, condescension is far more pervasive on the left than on the right, and certainly far more than racism on the right. I just heard something that resonates with me--that leftists don't move much outside their own circle. That would certainly seem to apply to leftist politicians, newscasters, and other leaders on the left. I don't think they realize how smug, arrogant, and condescending they come across to those who disagree with them, because I don't think they interact much with those who disagree. And any difference of opinion is met with more smug, arrogant, condescension.

As far as your "independent reviewer" thought exercise, I think such a reviewer would find far more smug, arrogant, condescension from the left. But this forum may be a poor choice of sample, because most people here, on both sides, are intellectual equals and approach it that way. I certainly don't see Oberlin-level tone deafness, probably because we are essentially all Rice people.

I don't think painting all leftists with a broad brush is appropriate. I frequently make the distinction between well-meaning people in the rank and file on the democrat side (and I know many) and the smug, arrogant, condescending leaders on the left. But I don't think that brush is too broad for the progressive leadership.

A very impressive political feat that the GOP has managed to execute is painting themselves as "of the people" while the Democrats are the "elites". Whether or not that is true has become secondary.

I have had a lot of left wingers tell mewith great pride that liberals are waaaaay more educates than conservatives. The implication, of course, is that they are smarter, and that’s why they choose liberalism.

I watch both CNN and Fox. You stereotypes are heightened on Fox and muted on CNN. If conservatives are the K mart people,

(06-10-2019 02:33 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:04 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

The fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.
That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

I don't take issue that there is a smugness associated some percentage of progressives that Fox News loves to amplify. Do I think that this helped Trump win in 2016? Yes.
Would you argue that CNN/MSNBC likes to amplify the percentage of the right that is racist?
Maybe or maybe not related... but a thought exercise... if an independent reviewer were to read all the posts on "Trump Administration" over the past few months... do you think that he or she would find the conservatives or the progressives among us to be smug and/or arrogant?
My point is that there are some here who paint all progressives with a broad brush which is hardly ever a great thing to do.

I certainly agree that CNN/MSNBC like to amplify the tiny percentage of the right that is racist. I know as many leftists as rightists who are truly racist, and it is a tiny percentage of both.

I think the smug, arrogant, condescension is far more pervasive on the left than on the right, and certainly far more than racism on the right. I just heard something that resonates with me--that leftists don't move much outside their own circle. That would certainly seem to apply to leftist politicians, newscasters, and other leaders on the left. I don't think they realize how smug, arrogant, and condescending they come across to those who disagree with them, because I don't think they interact much with those who disagree. And any difference of opinion is met with more smug, arrogant, condescension.

As far as your "independent reviewer" thought exercise, I think such a reviewer would find far more smug, arrogant, condescension from the left. But this forum may be a poor choice of sample, because most people here, on both sides, are intellectual equals and approach it that way. I certainly don't see Oberlin-level tone deafness, probably because we are essentially all Rice people.

I don't think painting all leftists with a broad brush is appropriate. I frequently make the distinction between well-meaning people in the rank and file on the democrat side (and I know many) and the smug, arrogant, condescending leaders on the left. But I don't think that brush is too broad for the progressive leadership.

A very impressive political feat that the GOP has managed to execute is painting themselves as "of the people" while the Democrats are the "elites". Whether or not that is true has become secondary.

I have had a lot of left wingers tell me with great pride that liberals are waaaaay more educated than conservatives. The implication, of course, is that they are smarter, and that’s why they choose liberalism.

I watch both CNN and Fox. You stereotypes are heightened on Fox and muted on CNN. If conservatives are the K mart people,then liberals hardly think of themselves as the dumpster diving people.

Liberals tend to think of themselves as morally pure - not racist, not sexist,, not xenophobic, not Islamophobic, and as protectors of the weak. It seems they think we are just the opposite.

(06-10-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:33 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 02:04 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The fact that you take issue with it is problematic. I think many on the left simply do not realize the smug, arrogant, condescending way that many of their comments come across. That doesn't come across in closed circle cocktail party conversation with fellow leftists, because they all agree. I'm reminded of the CBS commentator who was astonished that Nixon beat McGovern in 1972, because nobody that he knew voted for Nixon.
That smug, arrogant, condescension pissed off enough blue collar independent voters in 2016 to make Donald Trump president. Whether it will re-elect him in 2020 is questionable. But the left would do itself a major political favor to abandon it.

I don't take issue that there is a smugness associated some percentage of progressives that Fox News loves to amplify. Do I think that this helped Trump win in 2016? Yes.
Would you argue that CNN/MSNBC likes to amplify the percentage of the right that is racist?
Maybe or maybe not related... but a thought exercise... if an independent reviewer were to read all the posts on "Trump Administration" over the past few months... do you think that he or she would find the conservatives or the progressives among us to be smug and/or arrogant?
My point is that there are some here who paint all progressives with a broad brush which is hardly ever a great thing to do.

I certainly agree that CNN/MSNBC like to amplify the tiny percentage of the right that is racist. I know as many leftists as rightists who are truly racist, and it is a tiny percentage of both.

I think the smug, arrogant, condescension is far more pervasive on the left than on the right, and certainly far more than racism on the right. I just heard something that resonates with me--that leftists don't move much outside their own circle. That would certainly seem to apply to leftist politicians, newscasters, and other leaders on the left. I don't think they realize how smug, arrogant, and condescending they come across to those who disagree with them, because I don't think they interact much with those who disagree. And any difference of opinion is met with more smug, arrogant, condescension.

As far as your "independent reviewer" thought exercise, I think such a reviewer would find far more smug, arrogant, condescension from the left. But this forum may be a poor choice of sample, because most people here, on both sides, are intellectual equals and approach it that way. I certainly don't see Oberlin-level tone deafness, probably because we are essentially all Rice people.

I don't think painting all leftists with a broad brush is appropriate. I frequently make the distinction between well-meaning people in the rank and file on the democrat side (and I know many) and the smug, arrogant, condescending leaders on the left. But I don't think that brush is too broad for the progressive leadership.

A very impressive political feat that the GOP has managed to execute is painting themselves as "of the people" while the Democrats are the "elites". Whether or not that is true has become secondary.

I have had a lot of left wingers tell mewith great pride that liberals are waaaaay more educates than conservatives. The implication, of course, is that they are smarter, and that’s why they choose liberalism.

I watch both CNN and Fox. You stereotypes are heightened on Fox and muted on CNN. If conservatives are the K mart people,then liberals hardly think of themselves as the dumpster diving people.

Liberals tend to think of themselves as morally pure - not racist, not sexist,, not xenophobic, not Islamophobic, and as protectors of the weal. It seems they think us rednecks are just the opposite.

I watch both networks as well. I don't really follow your "dumpster diving" point.

You keep telling me all the terrible traits that liberals unfairly ascribe to conservatives (racist, sexist, etc.). Do you think that conservatives unfairly ascribe some terrible traits to liberals or is this purely one-sided?

(06-10-2019 01:25 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 01:16 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 12:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  You are a huge fan of sweeping generalizations.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship in your mind? I see one.

If not, I can now see why one might have utterly shocked when Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, *and* Ohio went the way that they did if one does not recognize that 'relationship dynamic'.

See my previous posts re: Oberlin. I agree that the university and the students blew it (assuming there is no good evidence to suggest that the business behaved in a racist manner).

Separately, I was responding to another post that ascribes a general philosophy to the left with which most of us on the left would take issue.

Let me restate as perhaps my first sentence was not well constructed.

So the gown to town attitude has *zero* relationship with the liberal/progressive to libertarian/conservative attitude in your mind? I see one.

Yes, I live in a progressive salient -- but the attitude here is palpable in that regard. Many times explicit.

Surely there will be conflict when you have two populations thrown together at opposite sides of the political spectrum. Especially when one of the sides is about as extreme as there is in this country. So yes.. the attitudes of these opposing groups certainly played a role in this mess. And without further material to back up the Oberlin side, it seems that they royally screwed the pooch here.

What type of attitudes might a progressive experience in a conservative salient?

Which side is the sole 'extreme' side that you allude to?