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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #7241
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 06:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(06-04-2019 08:30 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-04-2019 08:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Steele to testify
"In UK court filings, Steele has admitted that he was hired to produce a dossier that his client could use to challenge the results of the 2016 presidential election. According to State Department documents declassified through a Freedom of Information Act request, Steele told State Department official Kathleen Kavalec that his client was eager to see the dossier become public before the 2016 election."
I'm glad. I want to see this put to rest one way or another.

Do you really think this will put it to rest? It may be a step on the way, but there a couple of things in the article that I find concerning.

"Steele agreed to speak to the inspector general after learning that the soon-to-be-released OIG report is critical of him and his credibility."

and

"Steele has limited the scope of the questioning to his work for the FBI."

My guess is that this will raise more questions that it will answer. I hope the FBI sends its very best to conduct the interview.

Regardless of what he says, it will not be put to rest. I wonder what 93 thinks he will say that would put it to rest. That everything in the dossier is verified, that he did not get the info from Russians, and the Clinton Campaign was NOT the client?

But I think I know what 93 is thinking - he is thinking this may clear the smoke a little. Clearing smoke is good - let's just hope it doesn't take two years this time.
06-05-2019 09:26 AM
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Post: #7242
RE: Trump Administration
06-05-2019 10:23 AM
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Post: #7243
RE: Trump Administration
(06-01-2019 08:19 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 07:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Does the stock market get him re-elected, or jobs? Does a tariff on China and Mexico hurt jobs here?

Certainly the stock market plays a large part in getting him re-elected. And the tariffs are definitely hurting the market. Jobs play a part as well but the market is a big deal when it comes to re-election.

I think I'd disagree with this a whole lot. As James Carville said, it's the economy... he didn't say 'the market'.

Certainly lots of people depend on the market, but the market can do okay because of buybacks and overseas operations while the US economy languishes... or alternatively really benefits the wealthy investors without helping the working class. In that event, I am hard-pressed to see how the 1% or even the 20% would 'outweigh' the votes of the 80 or 99%

If the tariffs cut our growth from 3.5% to 3.2%, that's a big deal... but if the alternative is proposals that would eliminate the tariffs but cut our growth to 2.7%, I hardly see the tariffs as the impediment to election.

I think overwhelmingly, people vote with their pocketbooks... and while certainly there are increasing numbers of people who live off investments... it's still not remotely 1/3, much less 1/2 of the country.

The unanswered question from my query was if tariffs on Mexico or China help or hurt jobs here. I suppose a lot of that depends on what the tariffs are placed on and what is being demanded in exchange for the lifting of those tariffs.
06-05-2019 11:02 AM
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Post: #7244
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 11:02 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 08:19 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 07:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Does the stock market get him re-elected, or jobs? Does a tariff on China and Mexico hurt jobs here?

Certainly the stock market plays a large part in getting him re-elected. And the tariffs are definitely hurting the market. Jobs play a part as well but the market is a big deal when it comes to re-election.

I think I'd disagree with this a whole lot. As James Carville said, it's the economy... he didn't say 'the market'.

Certainly lots of people depend on the market, but the market can do okay because of buybacks and overseas operations while the US economy languishes... or alternatively really benefits the wealthy investors without helping the working class. In that event, I am hard-pressed to see how the 1% or even the 20% would 'outweigh' the votes of the 80 or 99%

If the tariffs cut our growth from 3.5% to 3.2%, that's a big deal... but if the alternative is proposals that would eliminate the tariffs but cut our growth to 2.7%, I hardly see the tariffs as the impediment to election.

I think overwhelmingly, people vote with their pocketbooks... and while certainly there are increasing numbers of people who live off investments... it's still not remotely 1/3, much less 1/2 of the country.

The unanswered question from my query was if tariffs on Mexico or China help or hurt jobs here. I suppose a lot of that depends on what the tariffs are placed on and what is being demanded in exchange for the lifting of those tariffs.

Your points about who the market benefits as opposed to growth of the general economy are valid.

That said, the Dow and the S&P are concrete numbers that people use to say whether or not our economy is strong (whether or not they actually reflect the realities of the economy of the "lower 80%" or the realities of the economy in general). You also don't have to be in the 1% to have an IRA and feel good about it or bad about it depending on the behavior of the market at any given time.

But if jobs are great and wages are great then the market is not as big an issue.

I'm pretty sure that Trump is very focused on the stock market indices.

*edit* I agree with you that a key question is whether tariffs help or harm jobs in the US. They undeniably are suppressing the market currently which is not great for Trump.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 02:18 PM by Rice93.)
06-05-2019 01:07 PM
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Post: #7245
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 01:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  But if jobs are great and wages are great then the market is not as big an issue.

I'm pretty sure that Trump is very focused on the stock market indices.

*edit* I agree with you that a key question is whether tariffs help or harm jobs in the US. They undeniably are suppressing the market currently which is not great for Trump.

Not really arguing with your major points, but wondering why you say the above?

The DJIA seems higher than when the Mexico Tariffs were announced and certainly not 'undeniably suppressed'... maybe a few industries that are specifically tied to such things... or maybe I'm just unaware?

and also wondering why you think Trump is very focused on the markets? It doesn't really benefit him personally because he's more of a real-estate guy, and that is more dependent on jobs I'd think. Sure, he'll take the headline... but why would he sacrifice that which matters more both to the success of his presidency and his personal wealth for something that doesn't?
06-05-2019 03:00 PM
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Post: #7246
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 01:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  But if jobs are great and wages are great then the market is not as big an issue.

I'm pretty sure that Trump is very focused on the stock market indices.

*edit* I agree with you that a key question is whether tariffs help or harm jobs in the US. They undeniably are suppressing the market currently which is not great for Trump.

Not really arguing with your major points, but wondering why you say the above?

The DJIA seems higher than when the Mexico Tariffs were announced and certainly not 'undeniably suppressed'... maybe a few industries that are specifically tied to such things... or maybe I'm just unaware?

and also wondering why you think Trump is very focused on the markets? It doesn't really benefit him personally because he's more of a real-estate guy, and that is more dependent on jobs I'd think. Sure, he'll take the headline... but why would he sacrifice that which matters more both to the success of his presidency and his personal wealth for something that doesn't?
06-05-2019 03:00 PM
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Rice93 Offline
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Post: #7247
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 03:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(06-05-2019 01:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  But if jobs are great and wages are great then the market is not as big an issue.

I'm pretty sure that Trump is very focused on the stock market indices.

*edit* I agree with you that a key question is whether tariffs help or harm jobs in the US. They undeniably are suppressing the market currently which is not great for Trump.

Not really arguing with your major points, but wondering why you say the above?

The DJIA seems higher than when the Mexico Tariffs were announced and certainly not 'undeniably suppressed'... maybe a few industries that are specifically tied to such things... or maybe I'm just unaware?

and also wondering why you think Trump is very focused on the markets? It doesn't really benefit him personally because he's more of a real-estate guy, and that is more dependent on jobs I'd think. Sure, he'll take the headline... but why would he sacrifice that which matters more both to the success of his presidency and his personal wealth for something that doesn't?

The day the Mexican tariffs were announced the market dropped. Other things also occurred that day however most ascribe the drop to the tariff announcement.

Since then, there has been softened rhetoric from China regarding trade negotiations. There have also been soft signals from Powell concerning a rate cut. These are the major two issues that have raised the DJIA since it dropped after the tariff announcement.

Most experts feel that a tariff on Mexico is a clear negative for the market. Any hint of further tariffs (concerning any country) spooks the market.

I think he's very focused on the stock market because you hear things from insiders in the administration that he is constantly monitoring the indices and he freaks out when there are major drops. That may or may not be the case but I believe it.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 03:40 PM by Rice93.)
06-05-2019 03:33 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #7248
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 03:33 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  The day the Mexican tariffs were announced the market dropped. Other things also occurred that day however most ascribe the drop to the tariff announcement.

Since then, there has been softened rhetoric from China regarding trade negotiations.

Probably a result of Trump playing hardball, instead of the softball of previous administrations. Preople get scared when hardball is played - thery are told it is risky. What the media and the weak-kneed do not seem to understand is that tariffs are not the goal of Trump - merely a tool. This is where electing a negotiator (instead of a beggar) pays off.
Quote:There have also been soft signals from Powell concerning a rate cut. These are the major two issues that have raised the DJIA since it dropped after the tariff announcement.
I wonder if the Powell announcement was not coming anyway.
Quote:Most experts feel that a tariff on Mexico is a clear negative for the market. Any hint of further tariffs (concerning any country) spooks the market.

True, but does it really change the underlying fundamentals, or is it just a mini-stampede to get out of the most affected stocks, followed a few days later to put that money to work with different stocks? BTW, my cat stampedes to hide under the bed when it hears thunder, but it always eventually comes out.
Quote:I think he's very focused on the stock market because you hear things from insiders in the administration that he is constantly monitoring the indices and he freaks out when there are major drops. That may or may not be the case but I believe it.

I think it would be foolish NOT to follow the market, but unlike the way some Presidents have followed polls, I don't think improvement in the Dow is a goal. He sees it as a symptom. This may not be the case, but I believe it.

I think some people who were previously worried but are less so now will be swayed by the economy. Others will not.

Certainly, those who have IRAs and 401Ks will know how their investments are doing. Those tend to be people who have had jobs all along.

I think the most likely group to come out for him is the tradespeople - the carpenters, plumbers, painters, concrete men, who were scrapping from job to job and now cannot keep up with the building boom. There is a 200 house development a stones throw from here - wasnot there in 2016. Everywhere I go I see things being built - not just housing, but business offices and warehouses. Those people will largely favor Trump. They remember the when it was not this good, just a few years ago.

Maybe a better indicator is the price of gas. A station close to e just went to $2.05/gal. I remember how people blamed Bush 43 for "putting money in the pockets of his rich friends" when it first started up. Every time it went up .01 it was Bush's choice. But now we have gotten used to that level of gas prices and the downward trend is noticeable. $2.05 sounds a lot better coming down from $2.85 than coming up from $1.65.

Not everybody who is better off will vote for him because of that, or because their sector is booming, or because they have a job, just a small minority. But that may be enough. It will depend a lot on how they see Democrat policies affecting them. Things like more oil regulation and higher taxes on businesses might be seen by the smarter ones as taking money out of their policies. The rest will vote STD, on the promise of more regulations to save the polar bears and higher taxes for the other guy.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 04:50 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-05-2019 04:40 PM
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Post: #7249
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 04:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-05-2019 03:33 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  The day the Mexican tariffs were announced the market dropped. Other things also occurred that day however most ascribe the drop to the tariff announcement.

Since then, there has been softened rhetoric from China regarding trade negotiations.

Probably a result of Trump playing hardball, instead of the softball of previous administrations. Preople get scared when hardball is played - thery are told it is risky. What the media and the weak-kneed do not seem to understand is that tariffs are not the goal of Trump - merely a tool. This is where electing a negotiator (instead of a beggar) pays off.

I think everybody sees the tariffs as a tool. I'm also not convinced that Trump knows how tariffs work.

Quote:
Quote:There have also been soft signals from Powell concerning a rate cut. These are the major two issues that have raised the DJIA since it dropped after the tariff announcement.
I wonder if the Powell announcement was not coming anyway.

Yes. I don't think it was made based on the Mexico tariff announcement.

Quote:
Quote:Most experts feel that a tariff on Mexico is a clear negative for the market. Any hint of further tariffs (concerning any country) spooks the market. [/quote}

True, but it really change the underlying fundamentals, or is it just a mini-stampede to get out of the most affected stocks, followed a few days later to put that money to work with different stocks? BTW, my cat stampedes to hide under the bed when it hears thunder, but it always eventually come out.
[quote]
I think he's very focused on the stock market because you hear things from insiders in the administration that he is constantly monitoring the indices and he freaks out when there are major drops. That may or may not be the case but I believe it.

I think it would be foolish NOT to follow the market, but unlike the way some Presidents have followed polls, I don't think improvement in the Dow is a goal. He sees it as a symptom. This may not be the case, but I believe it.

I think he views it as a scoreboard for how popular he is with the Wall Street crowd. Obviously this is conjecture and your guess is as good as mine.
06-05-2019 04:48 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #7250
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 04:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-05-2019 04:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  [quote='Rice93' pid='16134681' dateline='1559766818']

The day the Mexican tariffs were announced the market dropped. Other things also occurred that day however most ascribe the drop to the tariff announcement.

Since then, there has been softened rhetoric from China regarding trade negotiations.

Probably a result of Trump playing hardball, instead of the softball of previous administrations. Preople get scared when hardball is played - thery are told it is risky. What the media and the weak-kneed do not seem to understand is that tariffs are not the goal of Trump - merely a tool. This is where electing a negotiator (instead of a beggar) pays off.

I think everybody sees the tariffs as a tool. I'm also not convinced that Trump knows how tariffs work.

Quote:
Quote:There have also been soft signals from Powell concerning a rate cut. These are the major two issues that have raised the DJIA since it dropped after the tariff announcement.
I wonder if the Powell announcement was not coming anyway.

Yes. I don't think it was made based on the Mexico tariff announcement.

Quote:
Quote:Most experts feel that a tariff on Mexico is a clear negative for the market. Any hint of further tariffs (concerning any country) spooks the market. [/quote}

True, but it really change the underlying fundamentals, or is it just a mini-stampede to get out of the most affected stocks, followed a few days later to put that money to work with different stocks? BTW, my cat stampedes to hide under the bed when it hears thunder, but it always eventually come out.
[quote]
I think he's very focused on the stock market because you hear things from insiders in the administration that he is constantly monitoring the indices and he freaks out when there are major drops. That may or may not be the case but I believe it.

I think it would be foolish NOT to follow the market, but unlike the way some Presidents have followed polls, I don't think improvement in the Dow is a goal. He sees it as a symptom. This may not be the case, but I believe it.

I think he views it as a scoreboard for how popular he is with the Wall Street crowd. Obviously this is conjecture and your guess is as good as mine.
[/quote]

All reasonable.
06-05-2019 04:52 PM
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Post: #7251
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 04:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The rest will vote STD . . . .

If STD = Straight Ticket Demo, that goes away in Texas for 2020.

Abbott signs bill to eliminate straight ticket voting

Penicillin for your STDs.

Guessing ballot integrity Investigator Jabbott thinks the change will help the R's.
06-05-2019 08:01 PM
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Post: #7252
RE: Trump Administration
(06-05-2019 08:01 PM)ausowl Wrote:  
(06-05-2019 04:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The rest will vote STD . . . .

If STD = Straight Ticket Demo, that goes away in Texas for 2020.

Abbott signs bill to eliminate straight ticket voting

Penicillin for your STDs.

Guessing ballot integrity Investigator Jabbott thinks the change will help the R's.

STD does stand for Straight Ticket Democrat. STR stands for Straight Ticket Republican. I have not yet had an opportunity to use STL.

I wish straight ticket voting would go away nationally, but Texas is a good start.

I don't see how or why it would help or hurt either side to do away with it.

I just oppose it because I think voters should have an idea of who and what they are voting for.

Anecdote: My in-laws were STDs. My father in law voted STD until he died at 97, and his widow even longer.

One year, we were at the in-laws house just a few days before the election, when he surprised me by saying "I hope your guy wins". I was shocked, and said to him "why is that?" He answered, "Because he is the best man". I said that I was surprised that he would ever vote for a Republican, and he said "Oh, I'm not going to vote for him". I asked "why not, if you think he is the best choice?". He looked at me like I was the stupidest person he had ever met, and said "Well, if I did that I couldn't vote a straight ticket, could I?"

I want to see everybody vote for at least the top offices for a reason other than getting out of the polling place quickly or supporting a party rather than a person.

I didn't vote STR in 2016(and many elections before that). I didn't vote for Trump in either the primary or the general in 2016, although I expect to in 2020. I don't plan to vote ST-anything ever again.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 12:01 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-05-2019 11:43 PM
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Post: #7253
RE: Trump Administration
Never had an STD. 03-wink

Never had an STR either.
06-06-2019 12:11 AM
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Post: #7254
RE: Trump Administration
(06-06-2019 12:11 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Never had an STD. 03-wink

Never had an STR either.

What about a STL?

Only at Rice - one of my roomies, a biology genius, caught an STD from a certain girl. He went to the library, learned that it could be treated with a drug commonly prescribed for pyorrhea. So he went to the dentist, specifically asking for that drug, and explained to the dentist why. The dentist complied, saying he had never had to treat gono before. Then he went right back to the same girl and caught it again. He ended up with M.D., Ph.D.
06-06-2019 04:15 AM
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Post: #7255
RE: Trump Administration
I have never voted STR or STD. I have voted STL a few times.
06-06-2019 07:52 AM
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RE: Trump Administration
You have voted St Louis?
06-06-2019 08:15 AM
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Post: #7257
RE: Trump Administration
(06-06-2019 08:15 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You have voted St Louis?

For favorite NL team? Before the Colt .45s and after the Astros switched leagues, yes.

Otherwise it's STLibertarian.
06-06-2019 08:20 AM
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Post: #7258
RE: Trump Administration
Funny, nobody took STD to mean STuD. STR, of course, could be STaR.

I didn't know you could vote STLibertarian, although I knew Owl69 voted libertarian for POTUS before. Could one have voted STGreen?

Within the last 30 years, I have voted for GOPers, Libertarians, and yes (gasp!!!!) Democrats for offices up to and including statewide posts, but since Jimmy Carter I have voted GOP for Potus, except for twice I wrote in somebody(2004, 2016). I expect to vote GOP for POTUS in 2020. But I won't vote for just Rs - too many people at the county level who somehow are both good people and Democrats.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 10:32 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
06-06-2019 10:29 AM
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RE: Trump Administration
06-08-2019 01:50 PM
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Post: #7260
RE: Trump Administration
(06-08-2019 01:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Oberlin

Good deal. I hope they get max punitives.
06-08-2019 02:10 PM
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