(05-31-2019 01:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 01:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how the Loyal Opposition feels about the investigations into the origin of the Russia probe? Worried at all?

Worried? Why would people be worried? If it shows there was no issues, great! If it shows there were abuses and the people responsible are held accountable, great!

That's the same way the Loyal Faithful should have felt about the Russia investigation - if Trump campaign members broke the law and were held accountable, great! If they didn't, great!

That;s a good public position. But it ends up with the entire Democratic apparatus discredited, I am sure many people above your level, and many at it, will not be happy.

I am sure you can contain the damage to a few midlevel flunkies, though.

I can contain the damage? Last time I checked I was just an engineer that wasn't active in any political party. I hardly doubt I'll get called in for damage control...

Weird response.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party.

The evidence is on the table in plain sight.

In a not unrelated matter, does Cimey's decision on Clinton stand, or could the current DOJ review the case he presented and decide to bring charges?

I think you need to put a bit more tinfoil on your hat...

Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right. hard to talk to deplorables without talking down to them,though.

Comey laid out a case against Clinton. Has that case been dismissed? Or can the DOJ move on it?

It may not be good politics to do so, but I was asking a legal question, not a political one.

OO, you're getting really good at this persecuted conservative angle. Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right - I'm going to remember that one every time you dismiss one of my theories. I mean, it's pretty impressive that you're now speaking for the entire "right" since I was really just dismissing your theory about how things will play out.

And now you're a deplorable? I thought you and others on the right hated that term and didn't think it was applicable?

Sure seems like the snowflake in this situation isn't this liberal, but the conservative that doesn't like it when someone thinks their theory about the referenced investigation is a bit over the top.

"You" = the Democratic party, not you= Lad. Or if you prefer, your side. The one you defended for the last three years while claiming that Trump was giving instructions to russia in his public speeches. Now there is a tin foil hat idea.

Of course I'm a deplorable, to leftists.. I am a conservative.

I asked to you to lay out the scenario that made the Russia probe realistic. You told me to get more tin foil. Which one sounds more respectful to you? I ask for logic, you just dismiss.

I ask for your opinion, you just wave me off as a lunatic.

Done with Lad. On ignore.

(05-31-2019 02:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 01:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 01:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how the Loyal Opposition feels about the investigations into the origin of the Russia probe? Worried at all?

Worried? Why would people be worried? If it shows there was no issues, great! If it shows there were abuses and the people responsible are held accountable, great!

That's the same way the Loyal Faithful should have felt about the Russia investigation - if Trump campaign members broke the law and were held accountable, great! If they didn't, great!

That;s a good public position. But it ends up with the entire Democratic apparatus discredited, I am sure many people above your level, and many at it, will not be happy.

I am sure you can contain the damage to a few midlevel flunkies, though.

I can contain the damage? Last time I checked I was just an engineer that wasn't active in any political party. I hardly doubt I'll get called in for damage control...

Weird response.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party.

The evidence is on the table in plain sight.

In a not unrelated matter, does Cimey's decision on Clinton stand, or could the current DOJ review the case he presented and decide to bring charges?

I think you need to put a bit more tinfoil on your hat...

Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right. hard to talk to deplorables without talking down to them,though.

Comey laid out a case against Clinton. Has that case been dismissed? Or can the DOJ move on it?

It may not be good politics to do so, but I was asking a legal question, not a political one.

OO, you're getting really good at this persecuted conservative angle. Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right - I'm going to remember that one every time you dismiss one of my theories. I mean, it's pretty impressive that you're now speaking for the entire "right" since I was really just dismissing your theory about how things will play out.

And now you're a deplorable? I thought you and others on the right hated that term and didn't think it was applicable?

Sure seems like the snowflake in this situation isn't this liberal, but the conservative that doesn't like it when someone thinks their theory about the referenced investigation is a bit over the top.

"You" = the Democratic party, not you= Lad. Or if you prefer, your side. The one you defended for the last three years while claiming that Trump was giving instructions to russia in his public speeches. Now there is a tin foil hat idea.

Of course I'm a deplorable, to leftists.. I am a conservative.

I asked to you to lay out the scenario that made the Russia probe realistic. You told me to get more tin foil. Which one sounds more respectful to you? I ask for logic, you just dismiss.

I ask for your opinion, you just wave me off as a lunatic.

Done with Lad. On ignore.

No, I said get more tinfoil because you said: "I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party."

You never asked me to lay out a situation in which the Russia probe was realistic (I've done that quite a few times, mind you). Your only questions were how the "Loyal Opposition" feels about the new investigation and whether or not the current DOJ could review the Clinton decision...

But that's cool if you want to put me on ignore. You've seemed to be getting a bit unhinged (example A: saying you asked something when the physical evidence proves otherwise).

Investigations on ongoing into the origins of of the Russia probe, including the provenance of the dossier. The IG report is due soon. Some big names on the left may be implicated. I wonder if any of them are nervous.

Both sides want to ask questions of Mueller. I would too.

some questions I would like the answers to from Mueller:

When did you know the investigation into collusion was going nowhere?
Why did you continue after that?
Why did you hire only Clinton supporters?

(05-31-2019 02:39 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  No, I said get more tinfoil because you said: "I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party."

I haven't followed this whole conversation so I should probably just keep quiet, but at the risk of brokering some common ground...

What do you believe was the purpose of the conspirators you listed? Is 'stealing an election and removing a legally elected president' not a functionally (if not entirely factually) reasonable interpretation of their purpose?

I see a perspective difference between the two, not a substance one.

At any rate, it seems now that there is a division within the democratic party between the 'new' left who want to try and impeach Trump (do they REALLY want Pence?) and the 'old' left who simply want to emasculate him. I truly believe that many, perhaps even most of them were absolutely convinced that they could find clear collusion though.... and they didn't think it would take 2 years to come up essentially empty.

I do note that you (Lad) seem to be differentiating between the DNC and the Democratic party.... and from many perspectives, this is correct. I don't think the right really does that much. We see the difference in the methods and perhaps degree, but not in the direction.

All of the tin-foil is on the Left/DNC/Democrats/MSM.

The #1 takeaway in all of this is (non-)equity in prosecution: Hillary literally destroyed computer equipment after being subpoenaed, yet somehow that was not obstruction. Donnie tells his subordinates to do something that is in a gray area of obstruction, but yet they refuse to follow his orders thus the potential obstruction did not occur. Who is guilty according to the tinfoil brigade? Obviously Trump by a wide margin. None of these statutes are ever equally applied to everyone; if they did everyone would be in prison. We have things like Comey's aforementioned "prosecutorial discretion" that no one would indict the SoS for destroying subpoenaed evidence, being negligent with classified information, or using private communications in an open attempt to circumvent FOIA requirements of her office. Comey was pissed that the DoJ basically told him to pound sand on a solid case hence his press conferences (Comey has taken it from both sides on this one). Ultimately, (most) everyone agreed that Bill Clinton's perjury was not material and discretion should have been used instead of impeachment. The prosecution of Trump is not about justice or enforcing the law, it is purely political. The items listed in the Mueller report are equivalent to Bill's famous tarmac meeting with AG Lynch in an attempt to circumvent Hillary's issues. If you dispute that this whole charade is nothing but a political prosecution, you likely have a whole box of Reynolds Foil on your head.

What does the left believe? Bill & Lynch were chatting about kids and Hillary didn't want to miss a yoga appointment. LOL. Trump said some mean things about the DoJ and he should go to prison for that. Now that the left's version of Mary J. Rottencrotch's middle school fantasy has been ruined by the complete lack of evidence of Trump colluding with Ruskies, they are grasping at any straw necessary to elevate any perceived grievance of the establishment to the level of treason & high crimes.

The most hilarious development of course concerns the famed Trump Tower meeting which is and continues to be the only potential nexus of Trump-Russia collusion (unless you still believe the almost completely debunked dossier). The Russian involved was actually a Hillary/DNC/FusionGPS plant! It was actually Hillary's election machine that was colluding with the Russians, so much as to send an actual Russian into a meeting with the other candidate! And the left still points to this meeting as evidence that Trump is the bad guy here.

Just wait until the left gets a hand on Trump's tax returns. If you listen to MSNBC et al, you would think that the tax returns are filled with 1099's from Putin labeled "Happy Birthday, Donnie. Love, Putin xoxoxo". No, it's just going to be a bunch of indecipherable real estate calculations that result in large paper losses for the purposes of optimizing federal income tax laws. But one can still lay in bed dreaming of Mary J. Rottencrotch & Russians and continue to ignore reality.

Hats off. I dont think I have ever seen a post anywhere that makes reference to Drill Sergeant Hartman's favorite pinup girl *twice*. I am impressed.

Apparently according to the demi-god Barry in a speech he just recently made, I can freely buy a machine gun -- apparently over the internet.

Someone *please* point me to this treasure trove. I want!

(06-01-2019 12:15 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Hats off. I dont think I have ever seen a post anywhere that makes reference to Drill Sergeant Hartman's favorite pinup girl *twice*. I am impressed.

And a quirky version of the name at that — it’s usually rendered as Mary Jane rather than Mary J.

(06-01-2019 11:17 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  All of the tin-foil is on the Left/DNC/Democrats/MSM.

The #1 takeaway in all of this is (non-)equity in prosecution: Hillary literally destroyed computer equipment after being subpoenaed, yet somehow that was not obstruction. Donnie tells his subordinates to do something that is in a gray area of obstruction, but yet they refuse to follow his orders thus the potential obstruction did not occur. Who is guilty according to the tinfoil brigade? Obviously Trump by a wide margin. None of these statutes are ever equally applied to everyone; if they did everyone would be in prison. We have things like Comey's aforementioned "prosecutorial discretion" that no one would indict the SoS for destroying subpoenaed evidence, being negligent with classified information, or using private communications in an open attempt to circumvent FOIA requirements of her office. Comey was pissed that the DoJ basically told him to pound sand on a solid case hence his press conferences (Comey has taken it from both sides on this one). Ultimately, (most) everyone agreed that Bill Clinton's perjury was not material and discretion should have been used instead of impeachment. The prosecution of Trump is not about justice or enforcing the law, it is purely political. The items listed in the Mueller report are equivalent to Bill's famous tarmac meeting with AG Lynch in an attempt to circumvent Hillary's issues. If you dispute that this whole charade is nothing but a political prosecution, you likely have a whole box of Reynolds Foil on your head.

What does the left believe? Bill & Lynch were chatting about kids and Hillary didn't want to miss a yoga appointment. LOL. Trump said some mean things about the DoJ and he should go to prison for that. Now that the left's version of Mary J. Rottencrotch's middle school fantasy has been ruined by the complete lack of evidence of Trump colluding with Ruskies, they are grasping at any straw necessary to elevate any perceived grievance of the establishment to the level of treason & high crimes.

The most hilarious development of course concerns the famed Trump Tower meeting which is and continues to be the only potential nexus of Trump-Russia collusion (unless you still believe the almost completely debunked dossier). The Russian involved was actually a Hillary/DNC/FusionGPS plant! It was actually Hillary's election machine that was colluding with the Russians, so much as to send an actual Russian into a meeting with the other candidate! And the left still points to this meeting as evidence that Trump is the bad guy here.

Just wait until the left gets a hand on Trump's tax returns. If you listen to MSNBC et al, you would think that the tax returns are filled with 1099's from Putin labeled "Happy Birthday, Donnie. Love, Putin xoxoxo". No, it's just going to be a bunch of indecipherable real estate calculations that result in large paper losses for the purposes of optimizing federal income tax laws. But one can still lay in bed dreaming of Mary J. Rottencrotch & Russians and continue to ignore reality.

Bingo on all of the above. It probably all goes whoosh over the heads of the Katzenjammer Kids. I cry for the future of our country every time one of them tries to tell me that Trump was giving instructions to the Russian when he said "keep it up" in a speech.

Supposed the Dems in Congress understand from their advisors that there is no line on the 1040 where you list "Bribes to(from) Russians" but they want to see for themselves.

(06-01-2019 12:20 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Apparently according to the demi-god Barry in a speech he just recently made, I can freely buy a machine gun -- apparently over the internet.

Someone *please* point me to this treasure trove. I want!

If Demi-god Barry said it, it must be true.

What do you think about Trump's latest foray into tariffs?

The Mexico tariff came out of nowhere and, predictably, the stock market seems to hate it.

I think Trump will likely win in 2020 unless the market tanks. Not sure what Trump is up to here. Is he ignoring his economic advisors?

(06-01-2019 03:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  What do you think about Trump's latest foray into tariffs?

The Mexico tariff came out of nowhere and, predictably, the stock market seems to hate it.

I think Trump will likely win in 2020 unless the market tanks. Not sure what Trump is up to here. Is he ignoring his economic advisors?

As a former importer from Mexico, I hate the tariffs. I have no idea what his advisors are are saying to him.

BUT, I think he is is using the tariffs as a big stick to get to what he really wants., not as a goal. The tariffs are not what he wants. They are tools to get what he wants. When he gets what he wants from China and Mexico, the tariffs go away and the stock market comes back.

(06-01-2019 03:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-01-2019 03:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  What do you think about Trump's latest foray into tariffs?

The Mexico tariff came out of nowhere and, predictably, the stock market seems to hate it.

I think Trump will likely win in 2020 unless the market tanks. Not sure what Trump is up to here. Is he ignoring his economic advisors?

As a former importer from Mexico, I hate the tariffs. I have no idea what his advisors are are saying to him.

BUT, I think he is is using the tariffs as a big stick to get to what he really wants., not as a goal. The tariffs are not what he wants. They are tools to get what he wants. When he gets what he wants from China and Mexico, the tariffs go away and the stock market comes back.

Yes... no disagreement there that he's using them as a tool. Not sure how he's going to defend this Mexico tariff. You are going to deter illegal immigration through Mexico by hurting Mexico economically (not to mention hurting American consumers/businesses)?

And this China tariff is a real issue as you see the Chinese digging in against Trump. This is killing the market and makes me think that Trump is the one that is going to have to capitulate before the 2020 election.

Does the stock market get him re-elected, or jobs? Does a tariff on China and Mexico hurt jobs here?

(05-30-2019 11:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 10:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 10:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 10:11 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  No, the key here is "White House official."
Again, the issue isn't what the Navy did, but what the WH did. The fact that any level of official at the WH thought it was a good idea to try and get a ship hidden because it was named after McCain is bad. Does it say anything positive about the admin that anyone working in an official capacity thought they should try and do this?
Also, why even try and refute the email? CNN provided more sources to back up the claim, and it sounds within the realm of possibilities for this WH.

"White House official" is a nebulous term that could be used to describe literally hundreds if not thousands of people, most of them lower level lackeys. The fact the this "official" was talking with a lower-level Navy person is a dead giveaway that it was one of the lower level lackeys. SecDef and anyone close to him aren't interested in talking to LTJG Jones, and LTJG Jones's commanding officer is damned determined that no such conversation take place. That's just not how it works. Could the question have been raised as one of about a thousand details that advance teams go over? Absolutely. For one thing, with repair crews crawling all over it, the McCain is probably pretty damned unsightly.
As far as the email, what CNN is produced is more sources of the same rumor, but no email. A rumor does not become true because more people repeat it.
Here's my best guess at what happened. There was probably a discussion of what to do with McCain at some point during the advance visit. It was a very low level discussion and was quickly quashed by higher ups. Some staff puke at COMNAVFORJAPAN probably decided that it looked like crap and it had to be spiffed up a bit. Probably a lot of red lead showing and stuff like that. So he had a paint barge go over and paint it out haze gray in a hurry. I would expect that there is a strong possibility that the ship name was painted over in haze gray, and the black ship's name was not repainted in by the time of the visit. There was a tarp to cover the paint job until it dried. Somebody took a photo of the tarp several days before the visit. The bit about the ship name stenciled on the hat is the part that tells me that the writer didn't really do the proper homework. I'm guessing maybe he had seen other navies who do display the ship's name on their hats and made an improper projection. Then somebody makes up this story about the email, somebody comes up with a photo of the tarp, and it gets traction.
The reason why this sounds within the realm of possibility is that we have had so many other stories where stupid allegations have gotten legs before they could be debunked.

I tend to agree with you that this is not much of a story. The actual email from somebody in the Navy has been making the rounds. In my quick scan I believe it said something like "keep the McCain out of sight". I would imagine that it involved lower-level people as you have postulated.
We all know that Trump is petty. Regardless of the source of the orders this doesn't change much.

Do you have a link to the email? My Internet search skills are not the equal of Almadenowl's, and I have not been able to find it.

I have also not been able to find the exact location of Wasp and McCain on the day of Trump's visit.

Not the email text, but the Navy responds directly to this and says an email was sent.

Quote:"A request was made to the U.S. Navy to minimize the visibility of USS John S. McCain, however, all ships remained in their normal configuration during the President's visit," Rear Admiral Charlie Brown, chief of information, said in a statement to NBC News.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-...n-n1012731

(06-01-2019 07:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Does the stock market get him re-elected, or jobs? Does a tariff on China and Mexico hurt jobs here?

Certainly the stock market plays a large part in getting him re-elected. And the tariffs are definitely hurting the market. Jobs play a part as well but the market is a big deal when it comes to re-election.

(06-01-2019 04:10 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-01-2019 03:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-01-2019 03:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  What do you think about Trump's latest foray into tariffs?

The Mexico tariff came out of nowhere and, predictably, the stock market seems to hate it.

I think Trump will likely win in 2020 unless the market tanks. Not sure what Trump is up to here. Is he ignoring his economic advisors?

As a former importer from Mexico, I hate the tariffs. I have no idea what his advisors are are saying to him.

BUT, I think he is is using the tariffs as a big stick to get to what he really wants., not as a goal. The tariffs are not what he wants. They are tools to get what he wants. When he gets what he wants from China and Mexico, the tariffs go away and the stock market comes back.

Yes... no disagreement there that he's using them as a tool. Not sure how he's going to defend this Mexico tariff. You are going to deter illegal immigration through Mexico by hurting Mexico economically (not to mention hurting American consumers/businesses)?

And this China tariff is a real issue as you see the Chinese digging in against Trump. This is killing the market and makes me think that Trump is the one that is going to have to capitulate before the 2020 election.

Possible.

(06-01-2019 08:19 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-01-2019 07:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Does the stock market get him re-elected, or jobs? Does a tariff on China and Mexico hurt jobs here?

Certainly the stock market plays a large part in getting him re-elected. And the tariffs are definitely hurting the market. Jobs play a part as well but the market is a big deal when it comes to re-election.

Well, I depend on my retirement funds to live on. Stock Market would have to return to election day, 2016 levels to make me wonder about him. Democrats can only finger point, but none of their policies are going to help me. Name one single thing that one single Democratic candidate wants to do that will help me.

OTOH, more people with jobs and better futures, with more take home - that might get their attention.

Going to be interesting.

If Trump wins re-election, do you think the left will continue their investigations/impeachment stuff, or will they turn to governing? Seems like maybe it is time to give the hysteria - it didn't work ...twice.

(06-01-2019 08:19 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-01-2019 07:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Does the stock market get him re-elected, or jobs? Does a tariff on China and Mexico hurt jobs here?

Certainly the stock market plays a large part in getting him re-elected. And the tariffs are definitely hurting the market. Jobs play a part as well but the market is a big deal when it comes to re-election.

Well, I depend on my retirement funds to live on. Stock Market would have to return to election day, 2016 levels(18,332.74), to make me wonder about him. Democrats can only finger point, but none of their policies are going to help me. Name one single thing that one single Democratic candidate wants to do that will help me.

OTOH, more people with jobs and better futures, with more take home - that might get their attention.

Going to be interesting.

If Trump wins re-election, do you think the left will continue their investigations/impeachment stuff, or will they turn to governing? Seems like maybe it will be time to give up the hysteria - it didn't work ...twice.

The tariffs are a dumb way to go. Tariffs sound great as talking points, but they almost inevitably do more harm than good.