(05-29-2019 06:02 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:57 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

I think it would be helpful to provide a bit of insight into what makes someone unpatriotic and what examples you've seen of racism on the left.

I’d be happy to. Please give me a call!

Quote:I see a lot of my friends on the left and right criticizing things about America, but I don't find that an unpatriotic act (not sure if you do).

Do you think I do? If so, on what basis?

Not sure if you do find that an unpatriotic act (which is why I said that). I specifically made sure to say that because I've seen people (on this board even) question whether someone was patriotic, wanted to be in the country, etc. for criticizing aspects of it (see conversations about Kaepernick).

Just wanted to get your thoughts on what constituted unpatriotic acts.

Again, when I said unpatriotic, I meant not patriotic. Did you miss that?

I would like to get your thoughts on what are patriotic acts.

Nope - just like with most message boar things, you responded after I responded to your comment above, and so on. Just some jumping around.

When I think unpatriotic, I less think not patriotic, and more anti-patriotic. So someone being unpatriotic wouldn't be someone who didn't stand for the anthem because of indifference or out of protest, but because they dislike the country. I think it's easy to conflate unpatriotic and anti-patriotic acts in my book, but something like flag burning is an unpatriotic action, IMO. It crosses a line that goes beyond criticism to condemnation.

(05-29-2019 06:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 06:02 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:57 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:43 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I think it would be helpful to provide a bit of insight into what makes someone unpatriotic and what examples you've seen of racism on the left.

I’d be happy to. Please give me a call!

Quote:I see a lot of my friends on the left and right criticizing things about America, but I don't find that an unpatriotic act (not sure if you do).

Do you think I do? If so, on what basis?

Not sure if you do find that an unpatriotic act (which is why I said that). I specifically made sure to say that because I've seen people (on this board even) question whether someone was patriotic, wanted to be in the country, etc. for criticizing aspects of it (see conversations about Kaepernick).

Just wanted to get your thoughts on what constituted unpatriotic acts.

Again, when I said unpatriotic, I meant not patriotic. Did you miss that?

I would like to get your thoughts on what are patriotic acts.

Nope - just like with most message boar things, you responded after I responded to your comment above, and so on. Just some jumping around.

When I think unpatriotic, I less think not patriotic, and more anti-patriotic. So someone being unpatriotic wouldn't be someone who didn't stand for the anthem because of indifference or out of protest, but because they dislike the country. I think it's easy to conflate unpatriotic and anti-patriotic acts in my book, but something like flag burning is an unpatriotic action, IMO. It crosses a line that goes beyond criticism to condemnation.

It looks my usage is definitely in the minority, at least in this group.

The topic of what patriotism is is a great one for discussion. I've had some good discussions on it in the past, and have developed some ideas on what it necessarily is, optionally is, and is not. It would be great to have another such discussion -- ideally at Valhalla! (And one reason I say that is that, to me at least, it's too interesting and enjoyable a topic to be left to the cold, unsocial medium of the Internet.)

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My work experience with respect to running into conservative who were explicitly racist has been limited to the blue collar guys I work with. I try to avoid all political talk when possible, but I've had a few situations (primarily when Obama was president), where certain words were used by drillers and rig operators to describe the then POTUS which you don't use if you aren't, ya know, at least a bit racist.

I don't share the same view of the prevalence of racism among conservatives I run into through work or fun.

That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience. Probably to most people's experience as well. I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative". Not that no liberals are racist or that all conservatives are racist, mind you.

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative".

Well, that IS the way the propaganda goes. Propaganda is a very powerful thing. Hitler had millions of Germans convinced that Jews were subhuman, after bombarding them with that message for years. So the constant bombardment from CNN, MSNBC, Congressional Democrats and late night comics has its effect. Especially on people who listen to those sources a lot and respect them.

I am sure that most liberals, knowing nothing about me, consider me racist. I know because they keep telling me that I am racist. Some even tell me that I am racist against Hispanics. After all, I am white and conservative. Kind of the left's definition of racist.

What do they need to know about me? Just that I am not liberal, and I am not black. Enough to earn me the racist label, as 93 says.

BUT!

Their opinions, based on stereotypes, do not reflect reality. Brainwashed people give the answers they are supposed to give, not necessarily accurate ones.

Them saying it is so does not make it so. No more than you being called a Commie makes you a Communist.

What 93 so accurately posits is correct. Right or wrong, they would answer as trained. But their opinion would be based on innuendo and stereotype as reinforced by media. Not real world facts.

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative".

And exactly what is the significance of that, if true?

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My work experience with respect to running into conservative who were explicitly racist has been limited to the blue collar guys I work with. I try to avoid all political talk when possible, but I've had a few situations (primarily when Obama was president), where certain words were used by drillers and rig operators to describe the then POTUS which you don't use if you aren't, ya know, at least a bit racist.

I don't share the same view of the prevalence of racism among conservatives I run into through work or fun.

That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience.

Is it truly opposite to your experience, or just to how you filter your experience?

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Probably to most people's experience as well.

On the contrary:
- My experience seems consistent with Owl#'s experience.
- It is at least partially consistent with Lad's experience: he said that he does not know any white-collar conservatives whom he knows to be racist. Neither do I -- and white-collar folks are pretty much the only people I really know.
So there are two people in this discussion who each know a LOT of people, and whose experiences roughly match; plus a third person whose experience is not inconsistent.

You say your experience is opposite. Perhaps yours is the outlier. There certainly doesn't seem to be much basis for presuming that your experience is representative of "most people's".

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative".

There is nothing about that poll question to suggest that it would accurately capture people's experiences, or for that matter actual racism. Rather. it asks for the respondent's guess about what some people ("many") would opine ("consider") about other people. It seems to address who people THINK is more likely to be called racist; it might even shed light on who is ACTUALLY more likely to be called racist; but it sheds no light on who is more likely to BE racist. A key point of this discussion is the falsity of assuming that those groups are the same.

(05-29-2019 09:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience.

Is it truly opposite to your experience, or just to how you filter your experience?

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Probably to most people's experience as well.

On the contrary:
- My experience seems consistent with Owl#'s experience.
- It is at least partially consistent with Lad's experience: he said that he does not know any white-collar conservatives whom he knows to be racist. Neither do I -- and white-collar folks are pretty much the only people I really know.
So there are two people in this discussion who each know a LOT of people, and whose experiences roughly match; plus a third person whose experience is not inconsistent.

You say your experience is opposite. Perhaps yours is the outlier. There certainly doesn't seem to be much basis for presuming that your experience is representative of "most people's".

Could be. My experience may be the outlier. But just as your criticism of my "poll" below is valid, I'm not going buy into your study with an n of 4. Are you making the argument that, in general, you believe leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives? Do you think most people consider leftists more likely to be racist than conservatives?

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative".

Quote:There is nothing about that poll question to suggest that it would accurately capture people's experiences, or for that matter actual racism. Rather. it asks for the respondent's guess about what some people ("many") would opine ("consider") about other people. It seems to address who people THINK is more likely to be called racist; it might even shed light on who is ACTUALLY more likely to be called racist; but it sheds no light on who is more likely to BE racist. A key point of this discussion is the falsity of assuming that those groups are the same.

You're right... that poll wouldn't determine which group is actually more racist than the other.

(05-29-2019 09:39 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative".

Well, that IS the way the propaganda goes. Propaganda is a very powerful thing. Hitler had millions of Germans convinced that Jews were subhuman, after bombarding them with that message for years. So the constant bombardment from CNN, MSNBC, Congressional Democrats and late night comics has its effect. Especially on people who listen to those sources a lot and respect them.

I am sure that most liberals, knowing nothing about me, consider me racist. I know because they keep telling me that I am racist. Some even tell me that I am racist against Hispanics. After all, I am white and conservative. Kind of the left's definition of racist.

What do they need to know about me? Just that I am not liberal, and I am not black. Enough to earn me the racist label, as 93 says.

Remind me where I "said" this?

Quote:BUT!

Their opinions, based on stereotypes, do not reflect reality. Brainwashed people give the answers they are supposed to give, not necessarily accurate ones.

Them saying it is so does not make it so. No more than you being called a Commie makes you a Communist.

What 93 so accurately posits is correct. Right or wrong, they would answer as trained. But their opinion would be based on innuendo and stereotype as reinforced by media. Not real world facts.

I didn't say this poll would be accurate, but that it would likely reflect the general consensus that racist facebook posts are more likely to come from conservatives than liberals. George is the only person that I've known to propose the opposite situation and I found it surprising.

(05-29-2019 10:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 09:39 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative".

Well, that IS the way the propaganda goes. Propaganda is a very powerful thing. Hitler had millions of Germans convinced that Jews were subhuman, after bombarding them with that message for years. So the constant bombardment from CNN, MSNBC, Congressional Democrats and late night comics has its effect. Especially on people who listen to those sources a lot and respect them.

I am sure that most liberals, knowing nothing about me, consider me racist. I know because they keep telling me that I am racist. Some even tell me that I am racist against Hispanics. After all, I am white and conservative. Kind of the left's definition of racist.

What do they need to know about me? Just that I am not liberal, and I am not black. Enough to earn me the racist label, as 93 says.

Remind me where I "said" this?

Quote:BUT!

Their opinions, based on stereotypes, do not reflect reality. Brainwashed people give the answers they are supposed to give, not necessarily accurate ones.

Them saying it is so does not make it so. No more than you being called a Commie makes you a Communist.

What 93 so accurately posits is correct. Right or wrong, they would answer as trained. But their opinion would be based on innuendo and stereotype as reinforced by media. Not real world facts.

I didn't say this poll would be accurate, but that it would likely reflect the general consensus that racist facebook posts are more likely to come from conservatives than liberals. George is the only person that I've known to see the opposite situation and I found it surprising.

I agree (for the reasons others have outlined) that most people would BELIEVE that conservatives are more likely to make racist posts. But it is not clear that in most people's experience, conservatives ARE more likely to make racist posts on Facebook. My experience certainly doesn't suggest that.

To be honest, I don't know anyone else other than the two of us who has made a claim about what type of people tend to make racist posts. My experience among the people I know is that leftists are far more likely -- overwhelmingly so. For what it's worth (very little), my experience is consistent with Owl#'s, and not inconsistent with Lad's (although neither of them talked about Facebook, but about other experience with people they know). The only thing reported here that it's not consistent with is your description of your experience.

I find it surprising that you consider the possibility of an experience different from yours so surprising.

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My work experience with respect to running into conservative who were explicitly racist has been limited to the blue collar guys I work with. I try to avoid all political talk when possible, but I've had a few situations (primarily when Obama was president), where certain words were used by drillers and rig operators to describe the then POTUS which you don't use if you aren't, ya know, at least a bit racist.

I don't share the same view of the prevalence of racism among conservatives I run into through work or fun.

That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Quote:I simply don't know anybody that I would call unpatriotic.
Again... our definitions are likely be different.

By “unpatriotic” I simply mean not patriotic - including what someone else called “indifferent to patriotism.” What did you think I meant? And is everyone you know patriotic?

I'm sure that I know plenty of people who are indifferent to patriotism. If that is what you mean by unpatriotic then yes. It's kind of hard to put your finger on, though. It's not like that sort of thing can be determined on most general interactions with people.

Quote:By “anti-patriotic”, I mean against patriotism. You don’t know anyone like that?

I don't know anybody that I would call anti-patriotic.

(05-29-2019 06:08 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:26 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:20 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Quote:To be clear, the people I interact with are, for the most part, extraordinarily highly educated and well-read, even by the standards of most Rice alumni groups.

You are going for quite the score in the progressive decathalon.

Bummer, I guess the people I interact with whom do not agree with your thesis must *obviously* be far heavier on the dumb **** redneck scale. That most go without saying with that little nugget you chose to spice your spiel up there with.....

Good god.

This is almost as good as the Babylon Bee. I guess saying how much smarter and more intelligent all your progressive group thinkers is must be the left's version of 'No! My dick is bigger'....

Sorry '93 you are on a roll hitting almost every single trope in existence.

Seriously. You are taking the levels of self-ownage to new heights today.

The quote you are mistakingly attributing to me was actually from georgewebb.

Yep -- double checked and you are correct. George: stop using the ****** progressive trope of 'we are obviously much smarter than you' --- poor form.

'93 -- happy now?

Yes. This exchange made me happy. It was great when you told George just how pompous you found his post!

(05-29-2019 10:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 06:08 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:26 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:20 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Quote:To be clear, the people I interact with are, for the most part, extraordinarily highly educated and well-read, even by the standards of most Rice alumni groups.

You are going for quite the score in the progressive decathalon.

Bummer, I guess the people I interact with whom do not agree with your thesis must *obviously* be far heavier on the dumb **** redneck scale. That most go without saying with that little nugget you chose to spice your spiel up there with.....

Good god.

This is almost as good as the Babylon Bee. I guess saying how much smarter and more intelligent all your progressive group thinkers is must be the left's version of 'No! My dick is bigger'....

Sorry '93 you are on a roll hitting almost every single trope in existence.

Seriously. You are taking the levels of self-ownage to new heights today.

The quote you are mistakingly attributing to me was actually from georgewebb.

Yep -- double checked and you are correct. George: stop using the ****** progressive trope of 'we are obviously much smarter than you' --- poor form.

'93 -- happy now?

Yes. This exchange made me happy. It was great when you told George just how pompous you found his post!

I agree!

(05-29-2019 10:56 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 10:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 06:08 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:26 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:20 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You are going for quite the score in the progressive decathalon.

Bummer, I guess the people I interact with whom do not agree with your thesis must *obviously* be far heavier on the dumb **** redneck scale. That most go without saying with that little nugget you chose to spice your spiel up there with.....

Good god.

This is almost as good as the Babylon Bee. I guess saying how much smarter and more intelligent all your progressive group thinkers is must be the left's version of 'No! My dick is bigger'....

Sorry '93 you are on a roll hitting almost every single trope in existence.

Seriously. You are taking the levels of self-ownage to new heights today.

The quote you are mistakingly attributing to me was actually from georgewebb.

Yep -- double checked and you are correct. George: stop using the ****** progressive trope of 'we are obviously much smarter than you' --- poor form.

'93 -- happy now?

Yes. This exchange made me happy. It was great when you told George just how pompous you found his post!

I agree!

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My work experience with respect to running into conservative who were explicitly racist has been limited to the blue collar guys I work with. I try to avoid all political talk when possible, but I've had a few situations (primarily when Obama was president), where certain words were used by drillers and rig operators to describe the then POTUS which you don't use if you aren't, ya know, at least a bit racist.

I don't share the same view of the prevalence of racism among conservatives I run into through work or fun.

That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience. Probably to most people's experience as well. I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative". Not that no liberals are racist or that all conservatives are racist, mind you.

Perhaps because it is also a central tenet of most progressivist thought that 'racism' can only be exhibited in one direction in a racial sense. Did you ever stop and think that perhaps that bias just *might* be present in a poll?

To be blunt, if one is blind to the idea that racism can even exist from, say, an African American and directed to whites, kind of hard for them to express that in a poll when that locked view into a one-directional modality would seemingly be ingrained into them.

And yes, that belief is rather prevalent in the progressive camp.

Trump is a very, very petty man, and it seems that those around him enable it. I’ve stopped posting stories that focus on his personal flaws and his enablers, but this seems rather insane:

Quote:The White House asked the U.S. Navy to make sure a warship named for late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would be "out of sight" ahead of President Trump's visit to Japan over the weekend, according to an email obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

The email, dated May 15, included an outline of plans for the president's arrival, including instructions for the ship.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...ght-during

(05-30-2019 03:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  That’s similar to my experience - and in my case, the folks in the former category are not people I really know. It’s a lot different from 93’s “all walks of life”.

But the claims that surprised me most were the ones about not knowing ANY racist leftists or ANY unpatriotic ones. Again, I see plenty of examples of each just among Facebook friends.

George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience. Probably to most people's experience as well. I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative". Not that no liberals are racist or that all conservatives are racist, mind you.

Perhaps because it is also a central tenet of most progressivist thought that 'racism' can only be exhibited in one direction in a racial sense. Did you ever stop and think that perhaps that bias just *might* be present in a poll?

To be blunt, if one is blind to the idea that racism can even exist from, say, an African American and directed to whites, kind of hard for them to express that in a poll when that locked view into a one-directional modality would seemingly be ingrained into them.

And yes, that belief is rather prevalent in the progressive camp.

What’s the liberal equivalent of the race baiting “black crime” tag that The Federalist and Breitbart have employed before?

(05-30-2019 07:22 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 03:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 04:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  George, you claimed that you didn't know ANY racist conservatives... that is just as surprising to me. Your stated experience is that leftists are more likely to be racist than conservatives. I also find this surprising. Every facebook "friend" that posts borderline racist things on my feed is a conservative. You find liberal facebook "friends" posting things that are racist but never your conservative "friends"?

Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience. Probably to most people's experience as well. I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative". Not that no liberals are racist or that all conservatives are racist, mind you.

Perhaps because it is also a central tenet of most progressivist thought that 'racism' can only be exhibited in one direction in a racial sense. Did you ever stop and think that perhaps that bias just *might* be present in a poll?

To be blunt, if one is blind to the idea that racism can even exist from, say, an African American and directed to whites, kind of hard for them to express that in a poll when that locked view into a one-directional modality would seemingly be ingrained into them.

And yes, that belief is rather prevalent in the progressive camp.

What’s the liberal equivalent of the race baiting “black crime” tag that The Federalist and Breitbart have employed before?

Why dont you try doing some pro bono work in some certain areas of Houston. You might understand pretty fing quickly. I guess the terms 'white ************ cracker' shouldnt be taken as racist....

Not that it is prevalent, but that attitude is certainly not a unicorn in nature. Even in an attenuated form from the people that manage to have the doors open for the clinics from time to time.

So yes, racism exists in both directions, lad. No doubt in my mind.

And it exists in a more different form in different social classes within liberalism.

I suggest you wake up and smell the roses.

(05-30-2019 08:32 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 07:22 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 03:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 05:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Correct. Why does that surprise you?

Because it is opposite to my experience. Probably to most people's experience as well. I'll bet if you polled a bunch of people and asked them "Who is more likely to post something on facebook that many would consider racist... a conservative or a liberal", the vast majority of people would answer "conservative". Not that no liberals are racist or that all conservatives are racist, mind you.

Perhaps because it is also a central tenet of most progressivist thought that 'racism' can only be exhibited in one direction in a racial sense. Did you ever stop and think that perhaps that bias just *might* be present in a poll?

To be blunt, if one is blind to the idea that racism can even exist from, say, an African American and directed to whites, kind of hard for them to express that in a poll when that locked view into a one-directional modality would seemingly be ingrained into them.

And yes, that belief is rather prevalent in the progressive camp.

What’s the liberal equivalent of the race baiting “black crime” tag that The Federalist and Breitbart have employed before?

Why dont you try doing some pro bono work in some certain areas of Houston. You might understand pretty fing quickly. I guess the terms 'white ************ cracker' shouldnt be taken as racist....

Not that it is prevalent, but that attitude is certainly not a unicorn in nature. Even in an attenuated form from the people that manage to have the doors open for the clinics from time to time.

So yes, racism exists in both directions, lad. No doubt in my mind.

And it exists in a more different form in different social classes within liberalism.

I suggest you wake up and smell the roses.

Never did I suggest that people of color can't be racist or discriminate against other people. You're completely misinterpreting my comment to try and draw that conclusion. Maybe ask me if that's what I'm suggesting next time, before you launch into an all-too-familiar Tanq diatribe directed at a point I'm not trying to make.

I'm asking what the liberal equivalent is of conservative news agencies having race baiting tags such as "black crime." Like, if MSNBC had a tag like "cracker watch" or something.

Can you point out what major (or even minor) liberal news agency is doing something like that, and what it is?

(05-30-2019 07:13 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Trump is a very, very petty man, and it seems that those around him enable it. I’ve stopped posting stories that focus on his personal flaws and his enablers, but this seems rather insane:

Quote:The White House asked the U.S. Navy to make sure a warship named for late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would be "out of sight" ahead of President Trump's visit to Japan over the weekend, according to an email obtained by The Wall Street Journal.
The email, dated May 15, included an outline of plans for the president's arrival, including instructions for the ship.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...ght-during

This story doesn't really ring true to me, for several reasons. The Navy has denied (which doesn't mean a lot, but is something). The veracity of the email has been questioned. The photo showing a tarp covering the stern of the McCain was apparently taken several days before Trump's visit, and the tarp was in place to protect work being done on the ship, which is a usual practice. The Navy and others have stated that the tarp and paint barge were removed prior to Trump's visit. The comment about Navy sailors wearing hats with the ship's name stenciled on is patently false. Most other navies do have the ship's name stenciled or sewn (usually in gold or white) on a black band along the bottom of their white hats, but ours are different and we do not. I have often thought that we might want to alter our white hats to add the black band with the ship's name, like other countries. For one thing, hats tend to get soiled along the hair line, and the black band would make that soiling less visible. US Navy sailors do wear their ship's name on a shoulder patch as part of the dress uniform, but it's a very small patch and hardly recognizable from any distance. Sailors may wear a baseball cap with the ship's name as part of a working uniform, but it would be extremely odd and un-Navy-like for anyone to be wearing a working uniform with the president anywhere in the vicinity. The particular uniforms that all sailors and other US military personnel appear to be wearing in the photos that I have seen are the camos that prescribe a cap that, as far as I know, does not have a ship name stenciled anywhere. According to news stories I've seen, Trump visited both the JS Kaga and the USS Wasp, and transferred to, from, and between them by helicopter. Kaga would have been at the Japanese base, in another part of the harbor, with an island in between. I cannot determine how close Wasp would have been to McCain, but in the old days te carriers and destroyers tied up in different locations at Fleet Activities Yokosuka, several hundred feet apart. I have seen reports that there were 20 US ships import for the visit. In that case, I am fairly certain that the destroyer piers would have been full and that separation would have been followed. I am not even sure that the water at the destroyer piers would be deep enough to accommodate Wasp. Arriving and departing by helicopter, it would have been difficult at best to see the name of any destroyer.

I certainly believe it is possible that some dumb*** COMNAVFOR JAPAN staff puke, who should have been familiar with these facts, but like most staff pukes didn't think, could have issued such an order. And it's even possible that some White House staffer who didn't know better could have sent out something, but I find it more likely that this whole thing is made up. And the obvious unfamiliarity of the authors of the articles I've seen with these facts clearly means that nobody did the proper journalistic verification.

ETA: I have edited this post several times, as I am trying to research and find out more. I cannot get an exact location of Wasp and McCain at the time of the visit, and am still trying to get that.

(05-30-2019 08:56 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 07:13 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Trump is a very, very petty man, and it seems that those around him enable it. I’ve stopped posting stories that focus on his personal flaws and his enablers, but this seems rather insane:

Quote:The White House asked the U.S. Navy to make sure a warship named for late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would be "out of sight" ahead of President Trump's visit to Japan over the weekend, according to an email obtained by The Wall Street Journal.
The email, dated May 15, included an outline of plans for the president's arrival, including instructions for the ship.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...ght-during

This story doesn't really ring true to me, for several reasons. The Navy has denied (which doesn't mean a lot, but is something). The veracity of the email has been questioned. The photo showing a tarp covering the stern of the McCain was apparently taken several days before Trump's visit, and the tarp was in place to protect work being done on the ship, which is a usual practice. The comment about Navy sailors wearing hats with the ship's name stenciled on is patently false. Most other navies do have the ship's name stenciled or sewn (usually in gold or white) on a black band along the bottom of their white hats, but ours are different and we do not. I have often thought that we might want to alter our white hats to add the black band with the ship's name, like other countries. For one thing, hats tend to get soiled along the hair line, and the black band would make that soiling less visible. US Navy sailors do wear their ship's name on a shoulder patch as part of the dress uniform, but it's a very small patch and hardly recognizable from any distance. Sailors may wear a baseball cap with the ship's name as part of a working uniform, but it would be extremely odd and un-Navy-like for anyone to be wearing a working uniform with the president anywhere in the vicinity.

I certainly believe it is possible that some dumb*** COMNAVFOR JAPAN staff puke, who should have been familiar with these facts, but like most staff pukes didn't think, could have issued such an order. And it's even possible that some White House staffer who didn't know better could have sent out something, but I find it more likely that this whole thing is made up. And the obvious unfamiliarity of the authors of the articles I've seen with these facts clearly means that nobody did the proper journalistic verification.

Read a bit more and it sounds like parts of the story don't appear to be true.

CNN has followed up with other sources that confirm the email portion of the story, but refute the covering of the name:

Quote:Two Navy officials confirmed to CNN Wednesday night that the White House Military Office asked lower-level US Navy officials about keeping the ship out of view. One of the Navy officials further clarified Thursday morning that the discussion included obscuring the ship or moving it, which was not practical because the ship was under repairs at the time.
"Once leadership heard about it, they said knock it off," a senior Navy official told CNN.

To be clear, the story is not whether or not the Navy indulged these requests, it is that the White House made the requests.