(05-10-2019 11:38 AM)TribePride52 Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 11:37 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  .
Has he announced the school yet? Right now it seems like he's leaving just to leave.

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No school, just announced he wasn't coming back.

Brutal.

(05-10-2019 11:44 AM)wml33t Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 11:43 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Possible academic problems at W&M?

Completely and totally inappropriate conjecture.

As usual.

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(05-10-2019 11:34 AM)billymac Wrote:  This one really stumps me. Why you would want to trade starters minutes and a chance to be one of the stars of the team, for a sit out year, and possibly star, to transfer to a parallel school, athletically, seems a bit strange.
I guess it speaks to being much closer to your parents (allowing them to see more games), but also could speak to more unrest inside the locker room.

Oh, well. Onward and upward...

Nate Atkins tweeted this. Mature outlook beyond his years.

When your coaching staff leaves, you have two choices.

1) Stay, lead, and take on the challenge of creating the change you want to see

2) Leave

I know I made the right choice.

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(05-10-2019 11:44 AM)wml33t Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 11:43 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Possible academic problems at W&M?

Completely and totally inappropriate conjecture.

Word.

I mean, THE guy who complains most about speculation. Unreal.

LION KING and BigBubba are neck and neck...

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Nate and my daughter went to the same high school. Nate is a great young man. Definitely would love to see big success for the team this season. But, no matter how the team does in his final campaign, he is going to do well in life.

(05-10-2019 01:45 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 11:34 AM)billymac Wrote:  This one really stumps me. Why you would want to trade starters minutes and a chance to be one of the stars of the team, for a sit out year, and possibly star, to transfer to a parallel school, athletically, seems a bit strange.
I guess it speaks to being much closer to your parents (allowing them to see more games), but also could speak to more unrest inside the locker room.

Oh, well. Onward and upward...

Nate Atkins tweeted this. Mature outlook beyond his years.

When your coaching staff leaves, you have two choices.

1) Stay, lead, and take on the challenge of creating the change you want to see

2) Leave

I know I made the right choice.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Amen. And it is for that reason that, no matter how much I dislike our AD for what she done to our program, I will tenaciously support our players that stay and the staff that coaches them, and move on from the players who have moved on from me and the program that I still love. I do not question each player's right to leave or reason for leaving, as each was left to deal with a very bad and unexpected situation. But none of them had to leave and all of them had the opportunity to band together and still be part of what could have been a very special team. As coach Norman Dale urges, I will support what we are and not concern myself with what we are not. And I will overwhelming love the guys who have stayed and know in my heart that for them, the name on the front of the jersey was more important than the name on the back.

(05-10-2019 01:45 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 11:34 AM)billymac Wrote:  This one really stumps me. Why you would want to trade starters minutes and a chance to be one of the stars of the team, for a sit out year, and possibly star, to transfer to a parallel school, athletically, seems a bit strange.
I guess it speaks to being much closer to your parents (allowing them to see more games), but also could speak to more unrest inside the locker room.

Oh, well. Onward and upward...

Nate Atkins tweeted this. Mature outlook beyond his years.

When your coaching staff leaves, you have two choices.

1) Stay, lead, and take on the challenge of creating the change you want to see

2) Leave

I know I made the right choice.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

From my perspective, the fallout is so drastic, the following is about to happen.

Dane and the remaining band of Indians are going to be perceived as Leonidas and his 300 at Thermopylae. In our case, the rest of our Spartans transferred, as opposed to staying home for a religious festival. If the remaining band adopt the personality of the portal transfer player who opted to stay, every home game should be a war, even if they are outgunned and outmanned ... overachievers ... the William and Mary way.

I’m on the verge of actually looking forward to rooting for this team ... rooting for major underdogs runs in my blood.

As for the AD, she needs to show some humility ... real fast ... and convince the Indians’ community to rally around the smoking remnants of something that she, and she alone, is responsible for. The Dance is not ahead of us ... the Dance is not in the rear view mirror ... the Dance is nowhere in sight. This is not how the AD envisioned this going down; so be it.

If the AD addresses what has occurred in a humble fashion, I will renew my hoops season tickets. If not, I’ll cancel and buy at the door whenever I’m in town. That’s a big financial difference for the school.

I’m sure I’m not alone in this regard.

Accountability needs to happen now... and Tony deserves an apology.

——————————————————-

The firing of Tony Shaver- the shame of William and Mary

(05-10-2019 01:45 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 11:34 AM)billymac Wrote:  This one really stumps me. Why you would want to trade starters minutes and a chance to be one of the stars of the team, for a sit out year, and possibly star, to transfer to a parallel school, athletically, seems a bit strange.
I guess it speaks to being much closer to your parents (allowing them to see more games), but also could speak to more unrest inside the locker room.

Oh, well. Onward and upward...

Nate Atkins tweeted this. Mature outlook beyond his years.

When your coaching staff leaves, you have two choices.

1) Stay, lead, and take on the challenge of creating the change you want to see

2) Leave

I know I made the right choice.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Great take from a two year captain. To be fair though, basketball players have not been able to sit still in one place for years. They play at multiple high schools, for a different AAU team every year...it's just the nature of the sport now to run to the next open set of arms. I don't blame them, necessarily, for making the choice but I do echo what Leadbolt said earlier...Owens' decision is total group think on the surface.

Next season is shaping up to be a huge opportunity for those who stay. Barring injury or further defections, we could have a solid 7 man rotation. That's thin, but not that far from 2016-17. The front court should be strong and there could be some unusual line ups, but that is not always a minus.

Williams, Loewe, Scott, Blair and Harvey will each have a great opportunity to mesh and get playing time with Van Vilet and Knight, without having to be THE MAN.

GO TRIBE!

Not that it matters and he said nothing publicly on the subject, but he retweeted on his twitter on 4/1, "they are going to miss you when you are gone." He could have 4 years in a brand new situation and he has talent. Nothing Dane could do.

Just based on everything that's been public, I think everyone who left had better opportunities than staying. I think Loewe realized he wasn't in high demand and stayed. Who knows about the rest of them. How could any shop themselves with nearly no real playing time to show off to prospective landing spots? Van Vliet and Knight aren't transferring because it makes no sense.

(05-10-2019 02:34 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Next season is shaping up to be a huge opportunity for those who stayed. Barring injury or further defections, we could have a solid 7 man rotation. That's thin, but not that far from 2016-17. The front court should be strong and there could be some unusual line ups, but that is not always a minus.

GO TRIBE!

2016-17 had a real ten-man rotation--do you mean 2017-18?

In any event, there's a big difference between those teams and one where none of our three remaining guards have proven to be capable starters at this level.

(05-10-2019 02:40 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 02:34 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Next season is shaping up to be a huge opportunity for those who stayed. Barring injury or further defections, we could have a solid 7 man rotation. That's thin, but not that far from 2016-17. The front court should be strong and there could be some unusual line ups, but that is not always a minus.

GO TRIBE!

2016-17 had a real ten-man rotation--do you mean 2017-18?

In any event, there's a big difference between those teams and one where none of our three remaining guards have proven to be capable starters at this level.

Yes. Thanks. There are many more differences than the 1 which you pointed out. All teams are different. I was speaking only of doing well with a thin team. Nathan might actually be one of the best options vs a press, if this roster holds for next year.

(05-10-2019 12:01 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Owens leaving seems like a case of group think. It would appear that if he were to stay it would be an outstanding opportunity for him next year that he is not likely to duplicate anywhere else.

I don't know about that. Given the unmitigated disaster this seems to be turning into (or already is) I can't really blame anyone for heading out. How many players do we even have left at this point? It's also worth considering that the players have a better grasp of the situation on the ground (or in the locker room) than any of us.

It does seem a bit strange from an outside point of view, but I can see why a player might think that staying in this program suddenly turned into a risky decision. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he took his time thinking this decision through.

Justin to UNC for a chance to compete for a national championship...absolutely
Matt to UCF for a chance to play in the NCAA next year in front of his hometown...sure
Chase to Northwestern for a chance to play in the Big 10 against Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin, etc...makes sense
LJ to ???...WTF? Is he quitting basketball altogether? If another team wants him, why would they not announce it by now unless the offer was iffy? He is literally saying that W&M is so awful that he doesn’t care where he goes next year...as long as it is not in Williamsburg. He is a grown man and can do whatever he wants, but apparently the value of earning a W&M diploma is not what it used to be.

(05-10-2019 02:53 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 12:01 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Owens leaving seems like a case of group think. It would appear that if he were to stay it would be an outstanding opportunity for him next year that he is not likely to duplicate anywhere else.

I don't know about that. Given the unmitigated disaster this seems to be turning into (or already is) I can't really blame anyone for heading out. How many players do we even have left at this point? It's also worth considering that the players have a better grasp of the situation on the ground (or in the locker room) than any of us.

It does seem a bit strange from an outside point of view, but I can see why a player might think that staying in this program suddenly turned into a risky decision. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he took his time thinking this decision through.

I once worked for a company that offered anyone in certain management positions a year's pay to leave as a way to reduce employees. There were 3 broad groups of responses:

1). Along with many others, I left for another job and everything turned out great with an extra year's pay in my pocket.

2). Many folks left with no idea of what was next because it was the cool thing to do and for most of them this was not good when the year's pay ran out.

3). Those uncool kids who stayed on and didn't take the year's pay, in many cases made the very best decisions.

Owens to my way of thinking, seems to fall in with my friends from category #2 because it's the thing to do, when it appears from the outside that #3 would showcase him and his talents in a way that he can not reasonably expect anywhere else.

To me Milon, Audige and Pierce fall in catagory 1 and Loewe in catagory 3. I wish them all the best, but my experience is that while all 3 positions can be great, #2 is by far the riskiest and #3 can be surprisingly good.

It's in my live and learn file.

(05-10-2019 02:57 PM)Tribester Wrote:  LJ to ???...WTF? Is he quitting basketball altogether? If another team wants him, why would they not announce it by now unless the offer was iffy? He is literally saying that W&M is so awful that he doesn’t care where he goes next year...as long as it is not in Williamsburg. He is a grown man and can do whatever he wants, but apparently the value of earning a W&M diploma is not what it used to be.

I choose to think of it as LJ having so many suitors that he'll have to decide which one to go with

(05-10-2019 03:15 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 02:53 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 12:01 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Owens leaving seems like a case of group think. It would appear that if he were to stay it would be an outstanding opportunity for him next year that he is not likely to duplicate anywhere else.

I don't know about that. Given the unmitigated disaster this seems to be turning into (or already is) I can't really blame anyone for heading out. How many players do we even have left at this point? It's also worth considering that the players have a better grasp of the situation on the ground (or in the locker room) than any of us.

It does seem a bit strange from an outside point of view, but I can see why a player might think that staying in this program suddenly turned into a risky decision. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he took his time thinking this decision through.

I once worked for a company that offered anyone in certain management positions a year's pay to leave as a way to reduce employees. There were 3 broad groups of responses:

1). Along with many others, I left for another job and everything turned out great with an extra year's pay in my pocket.

2). Many folks left with no idea of what was next because it was the cool thing to do and for most of them this was not good when the year's pay ran out.

3). Those uncool kids who stayed on and didn't take the year's pay, in many cases made the very best decisions.

Owens to my way of thinking, seems to fall in with my friends from category #2 because it's the thing to do, when it appears from the outside that #3 would showcase him and his talents in a way that he can not reasonably expect anywhere else.

To me Milon, Audige and Pierce fall in catagory 1 and Loewe in catagory 3. I wish them all the best, but my experience is that while all 3 positions can be great, #2 is by far the riskiest and #3 can be surprisingly good.

It's in my live and learn file.

I assume you don't know Owens and have never talked to him. Categorizing him as someone who just wants to leave because it's cool isn't fair. Owens has been very, very quiet about everything the entire time on social media. I will assume he is discussing this with his family and making a decision that's best for him. We will soon find out where he's going just like we did with Audige. What if he goes to Elon?

(05-10-2019 03:37 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 03:15 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 02:53 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 12:01 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Owens leaving seems like a case of group think. It would appear that if he were to stay it would be an outstanding opportunity for him next year that he is not likely to duplicate anywhere else.

I don't know about that. Given the unmitigated disaster this seems to be turning into (or already is) I can't really blame anyone for heading out. How many players do we even have left at this point? It's also worth considering that the players have a better grasp of the situation on the ground (or in the locker room) than any of us.

It does seem a bit strange from an outside point of view, but I can see why a player might think that staying in this program suddenly turned into a risky decision. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he took his time thinking this decision through.

I once worked for a company that offered anyone in certain management positions a year's pay to leave as a way to reduce employees. There were 3 broad groups of responses:

1). Along with many others, I left for another job and everything turned out great with an extra year's pay in my pocket.

2). Many folks left with no idea of what was next because it was the cool thing to do and for most of them this was not good when the year's pay ran out.

3). Those uncool kids who stayed on and didn't take the year's pay, in many cases made the very best decisions.

Owens to my way of thinking, seems to fall in with my friends from category #2 because it's the thing to do, when it appears from the outside that #3 would showcase him and his talents in a way that he can not reasonably expect anywhere else.

To me Milon, Audige and Pierce fall in catagory 1 and Loewe in catagory 3. I wish them all the best, but my experience is that while all 3 positions can be great, #2 is by far the riskiest and #3 can be surprisingly good.

It's in my live and learn file.

I assume you don't know Owens and have never talked to him. Categorizing him as someone who just wants to leave because it's cool isn't fair. Owens has been very, very quiet about everything the entire time on social media. I will assume he is discussing this with his family and making a decision that's best for him. We will soon find out where he's going just like we did with Audige. What if he goes to Elon?

I'm not criticizing him, I assume he is doing what you said, but group think is a powerful ingredient and at this point staying is harder than leaving.

I'm assuming that you've never been through a situation like this and was trying to give you the benefit of my experience.

For further edification, try studying the Kennedy administration's Bay of Pigs decision process where some of the country's best and brightest feel victim to the very same thing while trying very hard to to the right thing. Often it is only clear in hindsight which at my age is easy and at a younger age is not as much.

(05-10-2019 02:45 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 02:40 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 02:34 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Next season is shaping up to be a huge opportunity for those who stayed. Barring injury or further defections, we could have a solid 7 man rotation. That's thin, but not that far from 2016-17. The front court should be strong and there could be some unusual line ups, but that is not always a minus.

GO TRIBE!

2016-17 had a real ten-man rotation--do you mean 2017-18?

In any event, there's a big difference between those teams and one where none of our three remaining guards have proven to be capable starters at this level.

Yes. Thanks. There are many more differences than the 1 which you pointed out. All teams are different. I was speaking only of doing well with a thin team. Nathan might actually be one of the best options vs a press, if this roster holds for next year.

Well, sure, you can do well with a thin team, but...the real salient point is that you have to have five good players, like we did in 2017-18. Right now Nate is the only one on the team who has ever averaged four points a game.