(05-07-2019 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 11:42 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 12:06 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 11:12 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 10:24 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  As far as attendance, USF's attendance is better than Memphis' attendance.

Yeah... No. It's not....

Those strange things called "facts" are easily verifiable. USF had greater attendance than Memphis last year in both announced attendance and actual attendance (both schools had both reported in numerous articles). Those are the facts. How a crowd looked on TV is irrelevant. The fact is, more people scanned into USF games in 2018 than Memphis games, unless all these articles just lied. FACT.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/s...698366002/

Over its seven home games in 2018, Memphis’ announced attendance was 211,247 fans, an average of 30,178 fans per game. The attendance is a 9.4 percent decrease from 2017’s announced attendance of 233,150, and the per-game average is the lowest since Memphis averaged 28,537 fans in 2013.

But announced attendance is different than the number of fans who actually attend a game. Announced attendance is the number of tickets handed out or sold, not how many actually show up for a game.

Based on actual attendance, Memphis totaled 124,643 fans this past season, which averages out to 17,806 fans per game. That’s less than 2017, when the Tigers had 127,153 actual fans for an average of 18,165 fans.

The Mercer game was only one of two at which Memphis had more than 20,000 fans in actual attendance based on tickets scanned.

The Tigers’ worst-attended game came against Tulsa with only 12,059 tickets scanned – more than 15,000 fewer than the announced attendance of 27,905.

Memphis’ actual attendance for 2018 was 59 percent of its announced attendance, up from 54.5 percent in 2017.

Memphis 2018 actual attendance vs. announced attendance

Here is a look at Memphis home attendance figures for the 2018 season. The actual attendance is listed first with announced attendance in parentheses, based on data obtained by The Commercial Appeal.

Mercer – 24,107 (33,697)

Georgia State – 17,121 (27,678)

South Alabama – 15,439 (27,765)

UConn – 16,734 (27,581)

UCF – 24,117 (38,831)

Tulsa – 12,059 (27,905)

Houston – 15,066 (27,790)

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bull...-increase/

Despite its worst losing streak in five years, USF's 2018 team on average drew the program's largest home crowds since joining the American Athletic Conference.

The school announced Thursday an average home attendance of 38,517 for six home games this season

While you posted the actual attendance of each Memphis game, I see you did not list your team's actual attendance per game.

Here it is:

usf 2018 football attendance
Announced vs Actual
Vs Elon: 31,217 (21,698)
Vs Ga Tech: 34,182 (25,801)
Vs ECU: 34,562 (26,946)
Vs UCONN 42,127 (30,473)
Vs Tulane 31,388 (21,010)
Vs UCF 57,626 (47,104)

Announced Average 38,517
Actual Average 28,838

But yes...that was still a major increase from prior years...(hosting tons of UCF Fans on Black Friday definitely helps with your season average).

I didn't have the figures readily available when I posted, but yes, everyone knows the USF/UCF game is going to be boosted attendance wise. No secret there. We host UCF every other years so that will happen frequently.

Thanks for the updated stats. Kind of proved my point. USF attendance, whether announced or actual, whichever you choose to use, was better than Memphis' attendance. That was my point...a rebuttal to a Memphis fan who said otherwise.

Did you actually looked at that crappy schedule compared
USF? That and terrible weather put a dent in last season totals. I was reluctant to respond because I realized you were stat twisting, but I'm curious why didn't you use a 3-6 year sample size? I bet I know why. Why didn't you use basketball attendance or basketball performance. All of this information is easily available and I think you'll find that Memphis is beating USF in every metric that would matter in some very unlikely big12 expansion, and market size is not as important now because the business model has changed. There will be no more conference networks forcing mandatory fees on entire populations, so no more Rutgers like teams sneaking up.

(05-07-2019 01:44 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:38 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Thanks for the updated stats. Kind of proved my point. USF attendance, whether announced or actual, whichever you choose to use, was better than Memphis' attendance. That was my point...a rebuttal to a Memphis fan who said otherwise.

Yeah... no. No, it wasn't.

Your argument is with the Memphis newspaper, who reported the figures, not me. Take it up with them. I simply reported the facts, as stated by your own newspaper.

Email them if you're disgruntled over it.

I'm wondering why he's cherry picking one year as opposed to maybe a more indicative 3-5 year sample. I'm guessing that wouldn't fit his twisted narrative.

(05-08-2019 02:32 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 09:55 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I the Big 12 does indeed lose Tejas and the Okies, that still leaves a core that is stronger than the AAC.

Uconn, UCF an Houston have all made it to either a BCS or Access bowl.

Baylor, TCU, OSU, KSU and WVU have all been to either a BCS or Access bowl.

Now tell me that when you take the leftover 8 out of hte Big 12 who has 5 teams who made those bowls and are usually top 25 teams and add in 3 more teams form the AAC that have also made those bowl games ... somehow thats not a P5 conference?

The leftover 8 could easily add 6 teams and have a conference that has 8 out of 14 teams with BCS/Access bowl appearances and I believe they have about 8-9 wins in those games... then add in the multiple Bball championships and the fact it would be a badass baseball conference too.

No, the Big 12 would rebuild and would still be power. Would it be considered to be one of the lowest of the power 5, maybe but it wouldnt be worse than the Pac 12.

(then think about the markets... Houston, USF, UCF alone adds three top 17 markets. BYU is a massive draw and if they did take in Air Force and Navy, those are also tv ratings draws. Its a conference worth some money. I woudnt doubt it stays over the $20 million mark. )

The big12 is not going to lose Texas for Oklahoma. There's nowhere else to go, but if they did and had to backfill with AAC teams, Id bet anything that USF would not be in the first five taken. Their football team has displayed a definitively mediocre ceiling in football and a very low floor in basketball and they've proven that being in a BCS/p5 conference doesn't help them. From a geographical perspective, their market size won't be able to offset their poor athletic performances and lackluster fanbase. UCF would be considered good enough as a stand alone program.

You can think that, if you want but Memphis didnt even make the cut of the final few teams being looked at by the B12.

I know a thing or two more about the local situation since I am a booster and am active in Florida politics. USF is 20 years old and has done amazingly well for a program this young. We were taken into the Big Eat over UCF and many other schools for many reasons that still exist.

UCF at least had a chance to be in the Big East back then. They were a finalist. Memphis wasnt.

You can point to a lack of major program wins but name me another program that at 20 years had as many wins over BCS/P5 teams. you cant because there isnt one.

If you think a rebuilding Big 12 conference wouldn't take the #11 Tv Market in the US with a student body of nearly 50K that is top 25 ranked in Public schools for research and is one of only 3 Pre-Eminent Universities in the 3rd largest state in the Nation... you have got something wrong with you.

Its not like we didnt finish in the top 25 2 of the last 3 years and beat P5 teams in the bowl games. You act like our history is something aweful. Last I checked we have wins over major teams like... Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, South Carolina, Auburn, UNC, TCU, WVU, T Tech.... and the entire former Big East. In 17 season at Division 1, we have been to 10 bowl games. Won 60% of the time. We are the fasted school to go from startup to a top 10 ranking and also fastest to receive a top 5 ranking. Not bad for 20 years at all. Somehow I think other schools will see us as having done well and immense potential.

Add in that a combo of USF and UCF locks down the entire middle of our state and locks in one of the best rivalries in the AAC. "If" Texas and OU leave, the Big 12 will be looking for exciting matchups that have some history. I am not certain any rivalry in the AAC gets as heated as the War on I4.

Ive seen the demographics that were sent to the TV execs and you actually get a significant bump in overall viewers when you add both compared to just one. When USF was more dominant than UCF we still saw the data that said it was better for us to be together than separate from a marketing and financial standpoint. Its the reason that USF voted for UCF to be in the Big East and why it was our president that officially invited them. We have a long history of hate and will continue that, but Ive settled in on that rivalry.

Lastly, do you really think all those western teams want to travel to Florida just once a year and not have a travel partner school? Adding two Florida schools means each team gets a trip to Florida, which is the best Recruiting state in the nation. Schools like Kansas would love to be able to recruit Texas and Florida.

I am not worried at all about USF being added to a rebuilt Big 12. It would happen. I am just not 100% convinced the big 12 will break up.... but I think there is a chance.

(05-08-2019 03:02 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 11:42 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 12:06 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 11:12 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Yeah... No. It's not....

Those strange things called "facts" are easily verifiable. USF had greater attendance than Memphis last year in both announced attendance and actual attendance (both schools had both reported in numerous articles). Those are the facts. How a crowd looked on TV is irrelevant. The fact is, more people scanned into USF games in 2018 than Memphis games, unless all these articles just lied. FACT.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/s...698366002/

Over its seven home games in 2018, Memphis’ announced attendance was 211,247 fans, an average of 30,178 fans per game. The attendance is a 9.4 percent decrease from 2017’s announced attendance of 233,150, and the per-game average is the lowest since Memphis averaged 28,537 fans in 2013.

But announced attendance is different than the number of fans who actually attend a game. Announced attendance is the number of tickets handed out or sold, not how many actually show up for a game.

Based on actual attendance, Memphis totaled 124,643 fans this past season, which averages out to 17,806 fans per game. That’s less than 2017, when the Tigers had 127,153 actual fans for an average of 18,165 fans.

The Mercer game was only one of two at which Memphis had more than 20,000 fans in actual attendance based on tickets scanned.

The Tigers’ worst-attended game came against Tulsa with only 12,059 tickets scanned – more than 15,000 fewer than the announced attendance of 27,905.

Memphis’ actual attendance for 2018 was 59 percent of its announced attendance, up from 54.5 percent in 2017.

Memphis 2018 actual attendance vs. announced attendance

Here is a look at Memphis home attendance figures for the 2018 season. The actual attendance is listed first with announced attendance in parentheses, based on data obtained by The Commercial Appeal.

Mercer – 24,107 (33,697)

Georgia State – 17,121 (27,678)

South Alabama – 15,439 (27,765)

UConn – 16,734 (27,581)

UCF – 24,117 (38,831)

Tulsa – 12,059 (27,905)

Houston – 15,066 (27,790)

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bull...-increase/

Despite its worst losing streak in five years, USF's 2018 team on average drew the program's largest home crowds since joining the American Athletic Conference.

The school announced Thursday an average home attendance of 38,517 for six home games this season

While you posted the actual attendance of each Memphis game, I see you did not list your team's actual attendance per game.

Here it is:

usf 2018 football attendance
Announced vs Actual
Vs Elon: 31,217 (21,698)
Vs Ga Tech: 34,182 (25,801)
Vs ECU: 34,562 (26,946)
Vs UCONN 42,127 (30,473)
Vs Tulane 31,388 (21,010)
Vs UCF 57,626 (47,104)

Announced Average 38,517
Actual Average 28,838

But yes...that was still a major increase from prior years...(hosting tons of UCF Fans on Black Friday definitely helps with your season average).

I didn't have the figures readily available when I posted, but yes, everyone knows the USF/UCF game is going to be boosted attendance wise. No secret there. We host UCF every other years so that will happen frequently.

Thanks for the updated stats. Kind of proved my point. USF attendance, whether announced or actual, whichever you choose to use, was better than Memphis' attendance. That was my point...a rebuttal to a Memphis fan who said otherwise.

Did you actually looked at that crappy schedule compared
USF? That and terrible weather put a dent in last season totals. I was reluctant to respond because I realized you were stat twisting, but I'm curious why didn't you use a 3-6 year sample size? I bet I know why. Why didn't you use basketball attendance or basketball performance. All of this information is easily available and I think you'll find that Memphis is beating USF in every metric that would matter in some very unlikely big12 expansion, and market size is not as important now because the business model has changed. There will be no more conference networks forcing mandatory fees on entire populations, so no more Rutgers like teams sneaking up.

You want to mention weather... we have Fwking Hurricanes. 3 of them came through during our season last year. That does indeed put a bit of a damper on our attendance too... along with Noon time games that have on field temperatures of over 100. It was 115 on the field the last game I was at. So please dont use weather. Were in Florida. Yall dont even know.

there is ONE major reason that Memphis didnt make the cut (and mind you, I WANT Memphis in the Big 12 with USF) but your academics are roughly equal to the lowest ranked public University in Florida.
You cant even compare. UCF (who I hate to help) is a Tier 1 research University that does Ok on research with a couple Hundred million in spending.... and they cant even touch what USF does.

You seem to think that Basketball and moderate success in football will make a college President want Memphis over USF. Presidents dont give a crap about sports as much as they do with aligning with TOP educational institutes and Memphis isnt one.

Last I checked, USF does more research and gets more research dollars (and patents on that research, which is a major measurement of quality) than any other school in the AAC. In Public schools, we are #25 in the nation for Research and have been top 10 in patents for the past 5-6 years. ADs do not choose conferences. Presidents do and that is why we made it into the Big East and why we were on the short list for Big 12 expansion. Memphis was on neither. Over 20 years apart were those two events and nothing has changed. That should tell you all you need to know.

I know I am being harsh, and dont take it as I dont love Memphis. Outside of my Big East brethren, Cinci and Uconn, Memphis and Houston are my two favorites and I hope we all remain together in the future.

btw... USF and UCF made the short list both times.

(05-08-2019 03:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:44 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:38 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Thanks for the updated stats. Kind of proved my point. USF attendance, whether announced or actual, whichever you choose to use, was better than Memphis' attendance. That was my point...a rebuttal to a Memphis fan who said otherwise.

Yeah... no. No, it wasn't.

Your argument is with the Memphis newspaper, who reported the figures, not me. Take it up with them. I simply reported the facts, as stated by your own newspaper.

Email them if you're disgruntled over it.

I'm wondering why he's cherry picking one year as opposed to maybe a more indicative 3-5 year sample. I'm guessing that wouldn't fit his twisted narrative.

We can go back to Big East days when we had crowds of nearly 70K for teas like WVU. I believe we were averaging in the mid 40K range and we were only 10 years old at that point.

We can all cherry pick data if we want. I just stick with things like who was really looked at or invited to the Big East and Big 12. It tells me what other conferences and presidents think and honestly thats all that matters.

(05-08-2019 09:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 03:02 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 11:42 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 12:06 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Those strange things called "facts" are easily verifiable. USF had greater attendance than Memphis last year in both announced attendance and actual attendance (both schools had both reported in numerous articles). Those are the facts. How a crowd looked on TV is irrelevant. The fact is, more people scanned into USF games in 2018 than Memphis games, unless all these articles just lied. FACT.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/s...698366002/

Over its seven home games in 2018, Memphis’ announced attendance was 211,247 fans, an average of 30,178 fans per game. The attendance is a 9.4 percent decrease from 2017’s announced attendance of 233,150, and the per-game average is the lowest since Memphis averaged 28,537 fans in 2013.

But announced attendance is different than the number of fans who actually attend a game. Announced attendance is the number of tickets handed out or sold, not how many actually show up for a game.

Based on actual attendance, Memphis totaled 124,643 fans this past season, which averages out to 17,806 fans per game. That’s less than 2017, when the Tigers had 127,153 actual fans for an average of 18,165 fans.

The Mercer game was only one of two at which Memphis had more than 20,000 fans in actual attendance based on tickets scanned.

The Tigers’ worst-attended game came against Tulsa with only 12,059 tickets scanned – more than 15,000 fewer than the announced attendance of 27,905.

Memphis’ actual attendance for 2018 was 59 percent of its announced attendance, up from 54.5 percent in 2017.

Memphis 2018 actual attendance vs. announced attendance

Here is a look at Memphis home attendance figures for the 2018 season. The actual attendance is listed first with announced attendance in parentheses, based on data obtained by The Commercial Appeal.

Mercer – 24,107 (33,697)

Georgia State – 17,121 (27,678)

South Alabama – 15,439 (27,765)

UConn – 16,734 (27,581)

UCF – 24,117 (38,831)

Tulsa – 12,059 (27,905)

Houston – 15,066 (27,790)

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bull...-increase/

Despite its worst losing streak in five years, USF's 2018 team on average drew the program's largest home crowds since joining the American Athletic Conference.

The school announced Thursday an average home attendance of 38,517 for six home games this season

While you posted the actual attendance of each Memphis game, I see you did not list your team's actual attendance per game.

Here it is:

usf 2018 football attendance
Announced vs Actual
Vs Elon: 31,217 (21,698)
Vs Ga Tech: 34,182 (25,801)
Vs ECU: 34,562 (26,946)
Vs UCONN 42,127 (30,473)
Vs Tulane 31,388 (21,010)
Vs UCF 57,626 (47,104)

Announced Average 38,517
Actual Average 28,838

But yes...that was still a major increase from prior years...(hosting tons of UCF Fans on Black Friday definitely helps with your season average).

I didn't have the figures readily available when I posted, but yes, everyone knows the USF/UCF game is going to be boosted attendance wise. No secret there. We host UCF every other years so that will happen frequently.

Thanks for the updated stats. Kind of proved my point. USF attendance, whether announced or actual, whichever you choose to use, was better than Memphis' attendance. That was my point...a rebuttal to a Memphis fan who said otherwise.

Did you actually looked at that crappy schedule compared
USF? That and terrible weather put a dent in last season totals. I was reluctant to respond because I realized you were stat twisting, but I'm curious why didn't you use a 3-6 year sample size? I bet I know why. Why didn't you use basketball attendance or basketball performance. All of this information is easily available and I think you'll find that Memphis is beating USF in every metric that would matter in some very unlikely big12 expansion, and market size is not as important now because the business model has changed. There will be no more conference networks forcing mandatory fees on entire populations, so no more Rutgers like teams sneaking up.

You want to mention weather... we have Fwking Hurricanes. 3 of them came through during our season last year. That does indeed put a bit of a damper on our attendance too... along with Noon time games that have on field temperatures of over 100. It was 115 on the field the last game I was at. So please dont use weather. Were in Florida. Yall dont even know.

there is ONE major reason that Memphis didnt make the cut (and mind you, I WANT Memphis in the Big 12 with USF) but your academics are roughly equal to the lowest ranked public University in Florida.
You cant even compare. UCF (who I hate to help) is a Tier 1 research University that does Ok on research with a couple Hundred million in spending.... and they cant even touch what USF does.

You seem to think that Basketball and moderate success in football will make a college President want Memphis over USF. Presidents dont give a crap about sports as much as they do with aligning with TOP educational institutes and Memphis isnt one.

Last I checked, USF does more research and gets more research dollars (and patents on that research, which is a major measurement of quality) than any other school in the AAC. In Public schools, we are #25 in the nation for Research and have been top 10 in patents for the past 5-6 years. ADs do not choose conferences. Presidents do and that is why we made it into the Big East and why we were on the short list for Big 12 expansion. Memphis was on neither. Over 20 years apart were those two events and nothing has changed. That should tell you all you need to know.

I know I am being harsh, and dont take it as I dont love Memphis. Outside of my Big East brethren, Cinci and Uconn, Memphis and Houston are my two favorites and I hope we all remain together in the future.

btw... USF and UCF made the short list both times.

I don't think you're being harsh because I don't agree with any of your stat twisting. I can guarantee you one thing though, if the big12 were to ever break up and go into scramble mode athletic prominence will drastically outweigh academic perceptions.

(05-08-2019 08:51 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 02:32 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 09:55 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I the Big 12 does indeed lose Tejas and the Okies, that still leaves a core that is stronger than the AAC.

Uconn, UCF an Houston have all made it to either a BCS or Access bowl.

Baylor, TCU, OSU, KSU and WVU have all been to either a BCS or Access bowl.

Now tell me that when you take the leftover 8 out of hte Big 12 who has 5 teams who made those bowls and are usually top 25 teams and add in 3 more teams form the AAC that have also made those bowl games ... somehow thats not a P5 conference?

The leftover 8 could easily add 6 teams and have a conference that has 8 out of 14 teams with BCS/Access bowl appearances and I believe they have about 8-9 wins in those games... then add in the multiple Bball championships and the fact it would be a badass baseball conference too.

No, the Big 12 would rebuild and would still be power. Would it be considered to be one of the lowest of the power 5, maybe but it wouldnt be worse than the Pac 12.

(then think about the markets... Houston, USF, UCF alone adds three top 17 markets. BYU is a massive draw and if they did take in Air Force and Navy, those are also tv ratings draws. Its a conference worth some money. I woudnt doubt it stays over the $20 million mark. )

The big12 is not going to lose Texas for Oklahoma. There's nowhere else to go, but if they did and had to backfill with AAC teams, Id bet anything that USF would not be in the first five taken. Their football team has displayed a definitively mediocre ceiling in football and a very low floor in basketball and they've proven that being in a BCS/p5 conference doesn't help them. From a geographical perspective, their market size won't be able to offset their poor athletic performances and lackluster fanbase. UCF would be considered good enough as a stand alone program.

You can think that, if you want but Memphis didnt even make the cut of the final few teams being looked at by the B12.

I know a thing or two more about the local situation since I am a booster and am active in Florida politics. USF is 20 years old and has done amazingly well for a program this young. We were taken into the Big Eat over UCF and many other schools for many reasons that still exist.

UCF at least had a chance to be in the Big East back then. They were a finalist. Memphis wasnt.

You can point to a lack of major program wins but name me another program that at 20 years had as many wins over BCS/P5 teams. you cant because there isnt one.

If you think a rebuilding Big 12 conference wouldn't take the #11 Tv Market in the US with a student body of nearly 50K that is top 25 ranked in Public schools for research and is one of only 3 Pre-Eminent Universities in the 3rd largest state in the Nation... you have got something wrong with you.

Its not like we didnt finish in the top 25 2 of the last 3 years and beat P5 teams in the bowl games. You act like our history is something aweful. Last I checked we have wins over major teams like... Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, South Carolina, Auburn, UNC, TCU, WVU, T Tech.... and the entire former Big East. In 17 season at Division 1, we have been to 10 bowl games. Won 60% of the time. We are the fasted school to go from startup to a top 10 ranking and also fastest to receive a top 5 ranking. Not bad for 20 years at all. Somehow I think other schools will see us as having done well and immense potential.

Add in that a combo of USF and UCF locks down the entire middle of our state and locks in one of the best rivalries in the AAC. "If" Texas and OU leave, the Big 12 will be looking for exciting matchups that have some history. I am not certain any rivalry in the AAC gets as heated as the War on I4.

Ive seen the demographics that were sent to the TV execs and you actually get a significant bump in overall viewers when you add both compared to just one. When USF was more dominant than UCF we still saw the data that said it was better for us to be together than separate from a marketing and financial standpoint. Its the reason that USF voted for UCF to be in the Big East and why it was our president that officially invited them. We have a long history of hate and will continue that, but Ive settled in on that rivalry.

Lastly, do you really think all those western teams want to travel to Florida just once a year and not have a travel partner school? Adding two Florida schools means each team gets a trip to Florida, which is the best Recruiting state in the nation. Schools like Kansas would love to be able to recruit Texas and Florida.

I am not worried at all about USF being added to a rebuilt Big 12. It would happen. I am just not 100% convinced the big 12 will break up.... but I think there is a chance.

Good reply. Once small correction, this is USF's 23rd year of playing football. Not 20th. I was there in 1997 vs. Kentucky Wesleyan.

(05-08-2019 09:05 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 03:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:44 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:38 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Thanks for the updated stats. Kind of proved my point. USF attendance, whether announced or actual, whichever you choose to use, was better than Memphis' attendance. That was my point...a rebuttal to a Memphis fan who said otherwise.

Yeah... no. No, it wasn't.

Your argument is with the Memphis newspaper, who reported the figures, not me. Take it up with them. I simply reported the facts, as stated by your own newspaper.

Email them if you're disgruntled over it.

I'm wondering why he's cherry picking one year as opposed to maybe a more indicative 3-5 year sample. I'm guessing that wouldn't fit his twisted narrative.

We can go back to Big East days when we had crowds of nearly 70K for teas like WVU. I believe we were averaging in the mid 40K range and we were only 10 years old at that point.

We can all cherry pick data if we want. I just stick with things like who was really looked at or invited to the Big East and Big 12. It tells me what other conferences and presidents think and honestly thats all that matters.

What it tells me is that your fan base was infatuated with being in a BCS/p5 conference moreso than actually USF fans because when the party ended no one seemed to care anymore. Sorry to be harsh but once you were in the AAC your program has not displayed any advantages over the left behind teams that were still toiling in CUSA up to that point. That will be in the minds of whatever teams are left to rebuild a decimated big12. They'll want growth stocks like Houston, Memphis, UCF,maybe even Temple. USF is a stock with a low ceiling, but I do think after the schools I've named USF would for sure deserve the next invite. So good luck if that unlikely scenario ever comes.

(05-08-2019 09:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You want to mention weather... we have Fwking Hurricanes. 3 of them came through during our season last year. That does indeed put a bit of a damper on our attendance too... along with Noon time games that have on field temperatures of over 100. It was 115 on the field the last game I was at. So please dont use weather. Were in Florida. Yall dont even know.

Yeah... I can tell you've never been to Memphis in August and September. But guess what... I HAVE been to Tampa in August and September. It is YOU, sir, who "dont even know". Here's a fun-fact. Tampa FL has NEVER reached 100 degrees F since weather records have been kept.

Tell you what. You come up here for our Ole' Miss game this coming season and experience our heat in pretty much ZERO wind and 80% humidity, and THEN you can talk about comparing our weather to yours.

(all that being said, yes, our fans are a bunch of puzzies who don't like to get wet.)

(05-08-2019 09:54 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You want to mention weather... we have Fwking Hurricanes. 3 of them came through during our season last year. That does indeed put a bit of a damper on our attendance too... along with Noon time games that have on field temperatures of over 100. It was 115 on the field the last game I was at. So please dont use weather. Were in Florida. Yall dont even know.

Yeah... I can tell you've never been to Memphis in August and September. But guess what... I HAVE been to Tampa in August and September. It is YOU, sir, who "dont even know". Here's a fun-fact. Tampa FL has NEVER reached 100 degrees F since weather records have been kept.

Tell you what. You come up here for our Ole' Miss game this coming season and experience our heat in pretty much ZERO wind and 80% humidity, and THEN you can talk about comparing our weather to yours.

(all that being said, yes, our fans are a bunch of puzzies who don't like to get wet.)

I grew up in Indiana and have been to Memphis... at least the parts that are safe enough to walk in.
and ya, Cat 3 and 4 hurricanes are just some water that fans are afraid to get wet....

(05-08-2019 09:40 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:05 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 03:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:44 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:38 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Yeah... no. No, it wasn't.

Your argument is with the Memphis newspaper, who reported the figures, not me. Take it up with them. I simply reported the facts, as stated by your own newspaper.

Email them if you're disgruntled over it.

I'm wondering why he's cherry picking one year as opposed to maybe a more indicative 3-5 year sample. I'm guessing that wouldn't fit his twisted narrative.

We can go back to Big East days when we had crowds of nearly 70K for teas like WVU. I believe we were averaging in the mid 40K range and we were only 10 years old at that point.

We can all cherry pick data if we want. I just stick with things like who was really looked at or invited to the Big East and Big 12. It tells me what other conferences and presidents think and honestly thats all that matters.

What it tells me is that your fan base was infatuated with being in a BCS/p5 conference moreso than actually USF fans because when the party ended no one seemed to care anymore. Sorry to be harsh but once you were in the AAC your program has not displayed any advantages over the left behind teams that were still toiling in CUSA up to that point. That will be in the minds of whatever teams are left to rebuild a decimated big12. They'll want growth stocks like Houston, Memphis, UCF,maybe even Temple. USF is a stock with a low ceiling, but I do think after the schools I've named USF would for sure deserve the next invite. So good luck if that unlikely scenario ever comes.

Growth stocks? Why take something that needs to grow instead of a previously proven commodity.
We put 45K fans in the seats on average with crowds of nearly 70K when we had decent competition. Hate to say it but fans arent as excited to watch many AAC teams. Thats the difference. Memphis fans were used to CUSA... and ours were used to Big East. Hard to get excited over the AAC when youve had better. What we dont need to build is a market and ours makes Memphis look small and an academic ranking that makes memphis look pretty bad.

Memphis used to have an amazing basketball program and a bottom dweller football. Your football has gotten better and basketball worse. Neither of our programs are the ideal piece that any conference is wanting but we have intangibles that you dont.

Like I said, we got into the Big east and were a finalist for Big 12. Memphis wasnt on either and those two events were 20 years apart. The perception of what Memphis is, hasn't changed.... and apparently what they think of USF is that we are strong enough to at least be considered.

No denying that.

(05-08-2019 09:54 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You want to mention weather... we have Fwking Hurricanes. 3 of them came through during our season last year. That does indeed put a bit of a damper on our attendance too... along with Noon time games that have on field temperatures of over 100. It was 115 on the field the last game I was at. So please dont use weather. Were in Florida. Yall dont even know.

Yeah... I can tell you've never been to Memphis in August and September. But guess what... I HAVE been to Tampa in August and September. It is YOU, sir, who "dont even know". Here's a fun-fact. Tampa FL has NEVER reached 100 degrees F since weather records have been kept.

Tell you what. You come up here for our Ole' Miss game this coming season and experience our heat in pretty much ZERO wind and 80% humidity, and THEN you can talk about comparing our weather to yours.

(all that being said, yes, our fans are a bunch of puzzies who don't like to get wet.)

I would definitely say the Memphis humidity wore UCLA down in 2017. That was a miserable day, weather wise.

Also check out what our attendance will be coming up... having games against Texas, BYU, UF, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech and other higher profile schools, attendance will be up where it was when we were in a better conference.
Dont get me wrong, Memphis is doing well but I remember those CUSA days where your stadium was damn near empty. We all have ups and downs.

In a perfect world the Leftover 8 of the B12 would take most of us. Id LOVE to see Memphis get in there because I think they belong . If I was a betting man, BYU and Houston would be the first two invited. USF and UCF would be the second paring. If I had my dream scenario they would go to 16 by adding Cinci, Uconn, Memphis and Temple. I love Navy but they will do fine as an Indy and I am not a fan of football only arrangements.

(05-08-2019 10:17 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Also check out what our attendance will be coming up... having games against Texas, BYU, UF, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech and other higher profile schools, attendance will be up where it was when we were in a better conference.
Dont get me wrong, Memphis is doing well but I remember those CUSA days where your stadium was damn near empty. We all have ups and downs.

In a perfect world the Leftover 8 of the B12 would take most of us. Id LOVE to see Memphis get in there because I think they belong . If I was a betting man, BYU and Houston would be the first two invited. USF and UCF would be the second paring. If I had my dream scenario they would go to 16 by adding Cinci, Uconn, Memphis and Temple. I love Navy but they will do fine as an Indy and I am not a fan of football only arrangements.

West Virginia
Temple
UConn
Cincy

UCF
USF
Memphis
Houston

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
BYU

Texas Tech
Oklahoma State
Baylor
TCU

I’d be fine with Navy not getting in and going Indy again if we got this spicy beast of a conference.

(05-08-2019 10:27 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 10:17 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Also check out what our attendance will be coming up... having games against Texas, BYU, UF, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech and other higher profile schools, attendance will be up where it was when we were in a better conference.
Dont get me wrong, Memphis is doing well but I remember those CUSA days where your stadium was damn near empty. We all have ups and downs.

In a perfect world the Leftover 8 of the B12 would take most of us. Id LOVE to see Memphis get in there because I think they belong . If I was a betting man, BYU and Houston would be the first two invited. USF and UCF would be the second paring. If I had my dream scenario they would go to 16 by adding Cinci, Uconn, Memphis and Temple. I love Navy but they will do fine as an Indy and I am not a fan of football only arrangements.

West Virginia
Temple
UConn
Cincy

UCF
USF
Memphis
Houston

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
BYU

Texas Tech
Oklahoma State
Baylor
TCU

I’d be fine with Navy not getting in and going Indy again if we got this spicy beast of a conference.

Id honestly love that conference. I used to dream of USF being in the ACC (which I know wont happen) since Miami and FSU are already there, but in all honesty this would be a great conference I could really enjoy and would like more than the ACC.

Then, I would love to setup a scheduling agreement with Navy and Army!

(05-08-2019 10:08 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:40 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:05 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 03:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-07-2019 01:44 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Your argument is with the Memphis newspaper, who reported the figures, not me. Take it up with them. I simply reported the facts, as stated by your own newspaper.

Email them if you're disgruntled over it.

I'm wondering why he's cherry picking one year as opposed to maybe a more indicative 3-5 year sample. I'm guessing that wouldn't fit his twisted narrative.

We can go back to Big East days when we had crowds of nearly 70K for teas like WVU. I believe we were averaging in the mid 40K range and we were only 10 years old at that point.

We can all cherry pick data if we want. I just stick with things like who was really looked at or invited to the Big East and Big 12. It tells me what other conferences and presidents think and honestly thats all that matters.

What it tells me is that your fan base was infatuated with being in a BCS/p5 conference moreso than actually USF fans because when the party ended no one seemed to care anymore. Sorry to be harsh but once you were in the AAC your program has not displayed any advantages over the left behind teams that were still toiling in CUSA up to that point. That will be in the minds of whatever teams are left to rebuild a decimated big12. They'll want growth stocks like Houston, Memphis, UCF,maybe even Temple. USF is a stock with a low ceiling, but I do think after the schools I've named USF would for sure deserve the next invite. So good luck if that unlikely scenario ever comes.

Growth stocks? Why take something that needs to grow instead of a previously proven commodity.
We put 45K fans in the seats on average with crowds of nearly 70K when we had decent competition. Hate to say it but fans arent as excited to watch many AAC teams. Thats the difference. Memphis fans were used to CUSA... and ours were used to Big East. Hard to get excited over the AAC when youve had better. What we dont need to build is a market and ours makes Memphis look small and an academic ranking that makes memphis look pretty bad.

Memphis used to have an amazing basketball program and a bottom dweller football. Your football has gotten better and basketball worse. Neither of our programs are the ideal piece that any conference is wanting but we have intangibles that you dont.

Like I said, we got into the Big east and were a finalist for Big 12. Memphis wasnt on either and those two events were 20 years apart. The perception of what Memphis is, hasn't changed.... and apparently what they think of USF is that we are strong enough to at least be considered.

No denying that.

This proves it! You can twist facts with the best of them LOL. 45k yea right. I guess you don't see Memphis basketball as back either. Anyways good luck here in our humble abode of a conference because I don't think any of us are going anywhere anytime soon.

(05-08-2019 11:06 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 10:08 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:40 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:05 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 03:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I'm wondering why he's cherry picking one year as opposed to maybe a more indicative 3-5 year sample. I'm guessing that wouldn't fit his twisted narrative.

We can go back to Big East days when we had crowds of nearly 70K for teas like WVU. I believe we were averaging in the mid 40K range and we were only 10 years old at that point.

We can all cherry pick data if we want. I just stick with things like who was really looked at or invited to the Big East and Big 12. It tells me what other conferences and presidents think and honestly thats all that matters.

What it tells me is that your fan base was infatuated with being in a BCS/p5 conference moreso than actually USF fans because when the party ended no one seemed to care anymore. Sorry to be harsh but once you were in the AAC your program has not displayed any advantages over the left behind teams that were still toiling in CUSA up to that point. That will be in the minds of whatever teams are left to rebuild a decimated big12. They'll want growth stocks like Houston, Memphis, UCF,maybe even Temple. USF is a stock with a low ceiling, but I do think after the schools I've named USF would for sure deserve the next invite. So good luck if that unlikely scenario ever comes.

Growth stocks? Why take something that needs to grow instead of a previously proven commodity.
We put 45K fans in the seats on average with crowds of nearly 70K when we had decent competition. Hate to say it but fans arent as excited to watch many AAC teams. Thats the difference. Memphis fans were used to CUSA... and ours were used to Big East. Hard to get excited over the AAC when youve had better. What we dont need to build is a market and ours makes Memphis look small and an academic ranking that makes memphis look pretty bad.

Memphis used to have an amazing basketball program and a bottom dweller football. Your football has gotten better and basketball worse. Neither of our programs are the ideal piece that any conference is wanting but we have intangibles that you dont.

Like I said, we got into the Big east and were a finalist for Big 12. Memphis wasnt on either and those two events were 20 years apart. The perception of what Memphis is, hasn't changed.... and apparently what they think of USF is that we are strong enough to at least be considered.

No denying that.

This proves it! You can twist facts with the best of them LOL. 45k yea right. I guess you don't see Memphis basketball as back either. Anyways good luck here in our humble abode of a conference because I don't think any of us are going anywhere anytime soon.

Um, not certain where you see anything twisted. Our attendance is public record. the point was that we have already proven what level we can be at when allowed to participate in a conference that isnt continually dragged on tv as inferior.
We averaged in the 40-45K range. Feel free to look it up. I believe our highest year was around 2008. Our record crowd I looked up and it was just under 68K against WVU when we were both top 20 ranked. Those are verifiable facts.

I see Memphis basketball as having a new coach who may very well do great things. Ive also seen a lot of coaches in the AAC who were suppose to do big things accomplish little.
USF just got an amazing OC who runs a breakneck high scoring offense but I am not about to tout our offense as anything special until it does something.

What cannot be debated is the last part of my above statement and the one Memphis fans ignore. 20 years ago the Big East didnt want you and just a couple years ago, you didnt make the cut for the final round of the Big 12.
That says more than any numbers debating we can do. No way to twist that. It is what it is.

with that said, I hope to see you in the Big 12 with us in a few years. Would be a great, fun, and equitable conference.

I’d give Memphis the edge over usf if nothing else for geographical relevance. One thing is for certain, usf doesn’t get any invite on its own. It’d need for UCF to be offered to be considered as a pair. However UCF could get in on its volition.

(05-08-2019 11:27 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  I’d give Memphis the edge over usf if nothing else for geographical relevance. One thing is for certain, usf doesn’t get any invite on its own. It’d need for UCF to be offered to be considered as a pair. However UCF could get in on its volition.

Id disagree. We made it into the Big east without yall and did just fine. Do I think either of us will go alone, nope but in a theoretical world where UCF doesn't exist, I still think a top ranked academic school in the #11 DMA has a pretty solid chance over anyone.

and for UCFs ups, yall have had MASSIVE downs and enough controversy to scare people. NCAA sanctions were actually mentioned as a criteria of exclusion when the Big 12 was talking. Essentially, yall have some great features but you also have some warts, just like all of us. Nobody made it in.

With that said, Ive shifted from wanting to get away from UCF to embracing the rivalry. We hate you, but its also fun and makes the game have so much meaning.... but we also have a weird bond. My heart hurt for Milton when he went down. As much as I hate UCF, I am rooting for the kid.

(05-08-2019 09:54 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 09:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You want to mention weather... we have Fwking Hurricanes. 3 of them came through during our season last year. That does indeed put a bit of a damper on our attendance too... along with Noon time games that have on field temperatures of over 100. It was 115 on the field the last game I was at. So please dont use weather. Were in Florida. Yall dont even know.

Yeah... I can tell you've never been to Memphis in August and September. But guess what... I HAVE been to Tampa in August and September. It is YOU, sir, who "dont even know". Here's a fun-fact. Tampa FL has NEVER reached 100 degrees F since weather records have been kept.

Tell you what. You come up here for our Ole' Miss game this coming season and experience our heat in pretty much ZERO wind and 80% humidity, and THEN you can talk about comparing our weather to yours.

(all that being said, yes, our fans are a bunch of puzzies who don't like to get wet.)

LOL, now we're arguing about weather.

For the record, Tampa is one of the most miserable places in summer. The combo of heat and humidity is never ending. Yes, the actual temp may only be in the 90's. That's because a large body of water artificially holds it down a little. But the humidity is FAR higher than Memphis, which sits hundreds of miles away from any large body of water. The heat index in Tampa is over 100 degrees EVERY SINGLE DAY in summer, and many days over 110. It is also never ending, lasting well into Oct and November, when Memphis is drastically cooling down. The hot season in Tampa lasts virtually all year, save a few months around Dec - Mar when it is actually comfortable. Anyone arguing their city is hotter (real feel, not air temp), has never lived in Tampa or doesn't have a clue about heat indexes.