(04-09-2019 09:49 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

LOL, very true.

About 10 years or so ago I was at a dinner with some colleagues from Virginia and one of the guys (an atheist) went on a rant about Christianity, Christians and Church customs/rituals. I proceeded to ask him what he did as an atheist and he told me:

- he went to a weekly discussion group
- every night he would study some atheist literature
- he donated some money to his discussion group
- he vowed to speak/educate others on what it means to be an atheist.

After he pointed all these things out I told he was more of a devout evangelical than most of the people he purported taking issue with. I told him I took no issue with his personal belief system, but noted the hypocrisy.

On the surface you appear to be correct. However, I'd challenge that this is hypocritical. Any hobby or leisure activity someone engages in could be argued that they are a "devout Evangelical". I know big time college football fans who do the following:

• Attend games weekly and/or regularly set time aside to watch CFB on TV for 3.5 hours or more on at least one day a week
• Go to a message board to regularly discuss college football
• Regularly visit sports news sites to read articles about current events in college football
• Study various types of offenses and defenses to better learn the game.
• Pay for premium services - premium sports channels, premium discussion board sites, purchases of team merchandise, etc
• Get into discussions on why college football is better than other sports - like the NFL
  

(04-09-2019 10:07 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:49 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

LOL, very true.

About 10 years or so ago I was at a dinner with some colleagues from Virginia and one of the guys (an atheist) went on a rant about Christianity, Christians and Church customs/rituals. I proceeded to ask him what he did as an atheist and he told me:

- he went to a weekly discussion group
- every night he would study some atheist literature
- he donated some money to his discussion group
- he vowed to speak/educate others on what it means to be an atheist.

After he pointed all these things out I told he was more of a devout evangelical than most of the people he purported taking issue with. I told him I took no issue with his personal belief system, but noted the hypocrisy.

On the surface you appear to be correct. However, I'd challenge that this is hypocritical. Any hobby or leisure activity someone engages in could be argued that they are a "devout Evangelical". I know big time college football fans who do the following:

• Attend games weekly and/or regularly set time aside to watch CFB on TV for 3.5 hours or more on at least one day a week
• Go to a message board to regularly discuss college football
• Regularly visit sports news sites to read articles about current events in college football
• Study various types of offenses and defenses to better learn the game.
• Pay for premium services - premium sports channels, premium discussion board sites, purchases of team merchandise, etc
• Get into discussions on why college football is better than other sports - like the NFL
  

True- I would have taken no issue with my dinner guest if he didn’t insist that people who disagree with him are rubes. Whether it is Christianity, Atheism, or sports fandom- all three are worshipping at the alter, they are just worshipping to a different deity.

daily wire. meh

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's not exactly fair.

I would probably fall into that category.

You might say wishy-washy, I'd say having the sense and logic to determine that just because we don't know the answers to "questions" doesn't mean there aren't answers.

I'm open enough to admit I don't know and at this point in our evolution we aren't capable of knowing.

(04-09-2019 09:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 08:59 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  This should come as no surprise to anyone. The public education system is an indoctrination into atheism.

I think mass media and music has more to do with it.

Compare movies/TV shows/pop music from the 60s to now. The Byrds even had a hit pretty much straight from Ecclesiastes. The anti-establishment song "Signs" had the church as the place where everyone was welcome. Things that are positive about religion are quarantined on the Christian rock stations now.

They both play MASSIVE roles. I don't think we can underestimate either one.

Most conservatives feel uncomfortable expressing their views on college campuses, its even worse for devout Christians.

(04-09-2019 10:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 10:07 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:49 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

LOL, very true.

About 10 years or so ago I was at a dinner with some colleagues from Virginia and one of the guys (an atheist) went on a rant about Christianity, Christians and Church customs/rituals. I proceeded to ask him what he did as an atheist and he told me:

- he went to a weekly discussion group
- every night he would study some atheist literature
- he donated some money to his discussion group
- he vowed to speak/educate others on what it means to be an atheist.

After he pointed all these things out I told he was more of a devout evangelical than most of the people he purported taking issue with. I told him I took no issue with his personal belief system, but noted the hypocrisy.

On the surface you appear to be correct. However, I'd challenge that this is hypocritical. Any hobby or leisure activity someone engages in could be argued that they are a "devout Evangelical". I know big time college football fans who do the following:

• Attend games weekly and/or regularly set time aside to watch CFB on TV for 3.5 hours or more on at least one day a week
• Go to a message board to regularly discuss college football
• Regularly visit sports news sites to read articles about current events in college football
• Study various types of offenses and defenses to better learn the game.
• Pay for premium services - premium sports channels, premium discussion board sites, purchases of team merchandise, etc
• Get into discussions on why college football is better than other sports - like the NFL
  

True- I would have taken no issue with my dinner guest if he didn’t insist that people who disagree with him are rubes. Whether it is Christianity, Atheism, or sports fandom- all three are worshipping at the alter, they are just worshipping to a different deity.

You're on to something.

The devout Christian and the devout Atheist are the opposite sides of the same coin, more alike than different. Same with the ALt-Right and Progressive Left.

I've had conversations with both. Both believe that they're ABSOLUTELY right and everyone else is ABSOLUTELY wrong. Believe as I do or else, no room for opposite opinions.

Maybe that's why they seem to "dislike" each other so much, they see WAY too much of themselves in those others.

(04-09-2019 10:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 10:07 AM)miko33 Wrote:  On the surface you appear to be correct. However, I'd challenge that this is hypocritical. Any hobby or leisure activity someone engages in could be argued that they are a "devout Evangelical". I know big time college football fans who do the following:

• Attend games weekly and/or regularly set time aside to watch CFB on TV for 3.5 hours or more on at least one day a week
• Go to a message board to regularly discuss college football
• Regularly visit sports news sites to read articles about current events in college football
• Study various types of offenses and defenses to better learn the game.
• Pay for premium services - premium sports channels, premium discussion board sites, purchases of team merchandise, etc
• Get into discussions on why college football is better than other sports - like the NFL
  

True- I would have taken no issue with my dinner guest if he didn’t insist that people who disagree with him are rubes. Whether it is Christianity, Atheism, or sports fandom- all three are worshipping at the alter, they are just worshipping to a different deity.

There is more truth here than most want to admit. When your favorite sports team/game or favorite form of entertainment or a political /social ideology becomes an "identity" its a practice of worship. Most Americans today engage in worship of their favorite things. This actually opens a whole other can of worms on what the bible calls "idolatry", but that is a whole other discussion.

A couple of things about this article...

1. They are admitting what all of us have known all along: that is, atheism is a faith-position. Some say atheism is not a religion, but atheists have a codified statement of faith in the Humanist Manifesto signed in 1933. That document has come to be known as Humanist Manifest I because it has been updated twice since. The Humanist Manifesto II was signed in 1973 and The Humanist Manifesto III was signed in 2003.

The common theme among these documents is that man is the supreme being.

There is even such as thing as Religious Humanism. Religious Humanism is an integration of humanist ethical philosophy with congregational but non-theistic rituals and community activity which center on human needs, interests, and abilities.

So not only do Humanists consider themselves religious, but the courts and other agencies have ruled the same.

For example, in Oct 2014 a federal judge in Oregon ruled that secular humanism is a religion. The American Humanist Association (AHA) and federal prisoner Jason Holder sued for the ability to establish a humanist study group in prison but was denied because "humanism wasn't a religion."

The ruling:

Quote:The court finds that Secular Humanism is a religion for Establishment Clause purposes. Allowing followers of other faiths to join religious group meetings while denying Holden the same privilege is discrimination on the basis of religion.

In his ruling, Judge Ancer Haggerty cited the 1961 Supreme Court decision, Torcaso v. Watkins, which referred to secular humanism as a religion.

In April 2014 the US Army added "Humanist" to its list of religious affiliations that soldiers can select. The Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF) called the ruling a "big victory."

Bottom line: The AHA considers Humanism a religion and federal courts and agencies concur.



2. The report considers atheism as a monolithic group but breaks Christianity into subsets. Would the membership of Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity and Mainline Protestantism combined outnumber the block number of atheists? By far.

Bottom line: The article counts all atheists in one group and Christians in separate groups.

(04-09-2019 09:41 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  The way the so called Christian's in our government behave, this will only grow. I'm not shocked.

Yes, they force millions of people to adopt an ideology that is responsible for the mass murder of well over 100M people.

(04-09-2019 09:47 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's wrong. The leap of faith is believing in something. Burden of proof is for those who make the positive claim. If you cannot prove it but elect to believe anyways, then that's faith.

Atheists believe there is no God. That requires a "leap of faith" to assume the universe just came into being. Most fail to acknowledge that. As I said, agnostics are different. They are waiting to be convinced either way.

(04-09-2019 10:28 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 10:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 10:07 AM)miko33 Wrote:  On the surface you appear to be correct. However, I'd challenge that this is hypocritical. Any hobby or leisure activity someone engages in could be argued that they are a "devout Evangelical". I know big time college football fans who do the following:

• Attend games weekly and/or regularly set time aside to watch CFB on TV for 3.5 hours or more on at least one day a week
• Go to a message board to regularly discuss college football
• Regularly visit sports news sites to read articles about current events in college football
• Study various types of offenses and defenses to better learn the game.
• Pay for premium services - premium sports channels, premium discussion board sites, purchases of team merchandise, etc
• Get into discussions on why college football is better than other sports - like the NFL
  

True- I would have taken no issue with my dinner guest if he didn’t insist that people who disagree with him are rubes. Whether it is Christianity, Atheism, or sports fandom- all three are worshipping at the alter, they are just worshipping to a different deity.

There is more truth here than most want to admit. When your favorite sports team/game or favorite form of entertainment or a political /social ideology becomes an "identity" its a practice of worship. Most Americans today engage in worship of their favorite things. This actually opens a whole other can of worms on what the bible calls "idolatry", but that is a whole other discussion.

Or political party. That's when it really becomes dangerous.

(04-09-2019 10:20 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's not exactly fair.

I would probably fall into that category.

You might say wishy-washy, I'd say having the sense and logic to determine that just because we don't know the answers to "questions" doesn't mean there aren't answers.

I'm open enough to admit I don't know and at this point in our evolution we aren't capable of knowing.

Taking it too seriously. I guess I should have added a

(04-09-2019 12:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:47 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's wrong. The leap of faith is believing in something. Burden of proof is for those who make the positive claim. If you cannot prove it but elect to believe anyways, then that's faith.

Atheists believe there is no God. That requires a "leap of faith" to assume the universe just came into being. Most fail to acknowledge that. As I said, agnostics are different. They are waiting to be convinced either way.

Regarding the burden of proof for positive claims, this applies to atheists as well, even though they try to deflect from having to provide proof.

The statement that God does not exist is a truth claim just as the statement that God does exist is a truth claim.

Regardless, both ideologies must explain the origin of the universe, life, etc. Of those arguments, theistic arguments are much more persuasive and logically sound.

(04-09-2019 07:35 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  And there you have it, America is on its death bed.

whole planet is on death bed.

pollution, sodomy, and socialism... these are end times.

(04-09-2019 12:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:47 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's wrong. The leap of faith is believing in something. Burden of proof is for those who make the positive claim. If you cannot prove it but elect to believe anyways, then that's faith.

Atheists believe there is no God. That requires a "leap of faith" to assume the universe just came into being. Most fail to acknowledge that. As I said, agnostics are different. They are waiting to be convinced either way.

No. It's more along the lines of accepting or rejecting the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis would be the default position is all aspects of the universe are governed by natural laws. There's not faith there. As you learn more about the universe, you can push certain subjects into being almost certainties and work with reasonable guesses for the rest with repeated experimentation as we. The alternative hypothesis would be that the universe contains a combination of natural laws plus supernatural events. If at the end of the day if you can show that it's logical to assume that a supernatural being created the universe - you still cannot make that assumption that said supernatural being is the God mentioned in the Christian bible. Unless God make himself (herself?) available to directly interact with humanity in clear and obvious ways - there's no way to prove it. Therefore faith.

I think most atheists would simply answer "we don't know" when it comes to the question of how the universe came into being.

(04-09-2019 12:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 12:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:47 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's wrong. The leap of faith is believing in something. Burden of proof is for those who make the positive claim. If you cannot prove it but elect to believe anyways, then that's faith.

Atheists believe there is no God. That requires a "leap of faith" to assume the universe just came into being. Most fail to acknowledge that. As I said, agnostics are different. They are waiting to be convinced either way.

Regarding the burden of proof for positive claims, this applies to atheists as well, even though they try to deflect from having to provide proof.

The statement that God does not exist is a truth claim just as the statement that God does exist is a truth claim.

Regardless, both ideologies must explain the origin of the universe, life, etc. Of those arguments, theistic arguments are much more persuasive and logically sound.

No, that's not how it works. You don't ask the accused to prove his/her innocence in a court of law. IRL, people living in free societies don't function that way when it comes to other things - like prove Santa Clause does not exist, prove that Elvis was not taken to a planet 20 light years away from earth to be worshiped as a deity, etc.

Saying that something does not exist is not a positive truth claim. It's actually a claim stating that there is insufficient evidence to prove one way or the other that something exists.

No, there is no demand that the origin of life on earth and the origin of the universe must be explained. Why would you have to? Theistic arguments are not sound in this regard. Otherwise, there would be no need for faith.

(04-09-2019 12:41 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 07:35 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  And there you have it, America is on its death bed.

whole planet is on death bed.

pollution, sodomy, and socialism... these are end times.

The world has been like this since the first humans evolved.

(04-09-2019 12:48 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 12:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:47 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's wrong. The leap of faith is believing in something. Burden of proof is for those who make the positive claim. If you cannot prove it but elect to believe anyways, then that's faith.

Atheists believe there is no God. That requires a "leap of faith" to assume the universe just came into being. Most fail to acknowledge that. As I said, agnostics are different. They are waiting to be convinced either way.

No. It's more along the lines of accepting or rejecting the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis would be the default position is all aspects of the universe are governed by natural laws. There's not faith there. As you learn more about the universe, you can push certain subjects into being almost certainties and work with reasonable guesses for the rest with repeated experimentation as we. The alternative hypothesis would be that the universe contains a combination of natural laws plus supernatural events. If at the end of the day if you can show that it's logical to assume that a supernatural being created the universe - you still cannot make that assumption that said supernatural being is the God mentioned in the Christian bible. Unless God make himself (herself?) available to directly interact with humanity in clear and obvious ways - there's no way to prove it. Therefore faith.

I think most atheists would simply answer "we don't know" when it comes to the question of how the universe came into being.

You are defining the "null hypothesis" your way. Its a leap of faith which you fail to acknowledge. When you say "we don't know how the universe came into being but God didn't do it, " you are making a positive assertion that you can't prove. That's the essential hypocrisy of most atheists. They believe there is some absolute truth that needs no faith, which is false.

(04-09-2019 12:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 10:20 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:31 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:24 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I'm confused....

...atheists constitute the largest religious group in America. According to the General Social Survey, the number of Americans who have no religion ...

So the largest religious group in America consists of Americans that have no religion?

Some of the most "evangelical" people I know are committed Atheists. They preach that **** all the damn time.

Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's not exactly fair.

I would probably fall into that category.

You might say wishy-washy, I'd say having the sense and logic to determine that just because we don't know the answers to "questions" doesn't mean there aren't answers.

I'm open enough to admit I don't know and at this point in our evolution we aren't capable of knowing.

Taking it too seriously. I guess I should have added a

No worries, didn't take it as a shot. It's a subject that can be tenacious.

(04-09-2019 01:09 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 12:48 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 12:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:47 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 09:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  Atheism is a religion. It requires a "leap of faith."
Agnostics-they're just the Charlie Browns of faith-wishy, washy.

That's wrong. The leap of faith is believing in something. Burden of proof is for those who make the positive claim. If you cannot prove it but elect to believe anyways, then that's faith.

Atheists believe there is no God. That requires a "leap of faith" to assume the universe just came into being. Most fail to acknowledge that. As I said, agnostics are different. They are waiting to be convinced either way.

No. It's more along the lines of accepting or rejecting the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis would be the default position is all aspects of the universe are governed by natural laws. There's not faith there. As you learn more about the universe, you can push certain subjects into being almost certainties and work with reasonable guesses for the rest with repeated experimentation as we. The alternative hypothesis would be that the universe contains a combination of natural laws plus supernatural events. If at the end of the day if you can show that it's logical to assume that a supernatural being created the universe - you still cannot make that assumption that said supernatural being is the God mentioned in the Christian bible. Unless God make himself (herself?) available to directly interact with humanity in clear and obvious ways - there's no way to prove it. Therefore faith.

I think most atheists would simply answer "we don't know" when it comes to the question of how the universe came into being.

You are defining the "null hypothesis" your way. Its a leap of faith which you fail to acknowledge. When you say "we don't know how the universe came into being but God didn't do it, " you are making a positive assertion that you can't prove. That's the essential hypocrisy of most atheists. They believe there is some absolute truth that needs no faith, which is false.

Again, most atheists will respond with "I don't know" regarding whether the universe was created by a god or not. I disagree with your assertions of a positive claim, but agree to disagree. BTW, I'm RCC.