(03-08-2019 08:14 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I’d agree if we were talking football.

We can do more than keep up with Penn State in women’s hoops if we have the institutional will.

That's pink elephant level delusion.

At Rice, a reasonable goal is to make the tournament; at Penn State, a reasonable goal is to win a national championship.

BIG difference.

(03-08-2019 10:17 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  ]

At Rice, a reasonable goal is to make the tournament;

THIS year.

Next year, more.

(03-09-2019 12:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 10:17 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  ]

At Rice, a reasonable goal is to make the tournament;

THIS year.

Next year, more.

An anomaly though. The norm Is making excuses for a best case of "unprecedented success"

Old habits die hard. Old cronies, seemingly live on.

(03-08-2019 08:14 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:08 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 07:24 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Ultimately we’ll keep losing coaches until we start paying up.

It isn't that simple. We'd have to offer all the tea in China to keep a coach from jumping to Penn St, unless for some reason she just wants to be at Rice.

Much more to it than offer/counteroffer. All other things are not equal.

I’d agree if we were talking football.

We can do more than keep up with Penn State in women’s hoops if we have the institutional will.

That's pink elephant level delusion.

Tell that to Gonzaga. Or Marquette. Or DePaul.

(03-09-2019 09:36 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:14 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:08 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 07:24 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Ultimately we’ll keep losing coaches until we start paying up.

It isn't that simple. We'd have to offer all the tea in China to keep a coach from jumping to Penn St, unless for some reason she just wants to be at Rice.

Much more to it than offer/counteroffer. All other things are not equal.

I’d agree if we were talking football.

We can do more than keep up with Penn State in women’s hoops if we have the institutional will.

That's pink elephant level delusion.

Tell that to Gonzaga. Or Marquette. Or DePaul.

Any one of which could hire Langley away if they wanted to.

RIGHT NOW in the real world and not some fantasy future, Rice WBB is not a destination for a coach with Top 25 ambition.

I am not saying women's basketball can't be that someday. I did not say that before. In fact, I never said that, and believe the opposite.

Go back to what I said: Rice's counteroffer would have to be enormous to keep Langley here if Penn State offered, and even then she probably would leave.

For coaches like her, it isn't just about the money. You have an insultingly low opinion of their character if you think all they care about is the money. Unless she really wants to be at Rice, at present we can't retain her.

The bottom line is Rice can afford any amount necessary to keep any coach we want. The only question is are we willing to pay that much.

This whole issue of retaining Coach Langley is one of the most important issues in Rice athletics over the next 3-6 months. It is up to the AD to address this issue and retain the talent we have in place (both coaching talent and athletic talent).

It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

(03-09-2019 10:35 AM)TFW Wrote:  The bottom line is Rice can afford any amount necessary to keep any coach we want. The only question is are we willing to pay that much.

This whole issue of retaining Coach Langley is one of the most important issues in Rice athletics over the next 3-6 months. It is up to the AD to address this issue and retain the talent we have in place (both coaching talent and athletic talent).

This is exactly what I meant.

The fiction some of you are maintaining is that Rice is a place that any coach would love to be, if the pay is right.

I think you know better.

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

Exactly.

Control what we can control (our financial offer/contract package). Don’t worry about what you can’t control (whether she wants to be here or not).

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

It isn't a question of not being happy. It's a question of ambition and getting to the top, which is what drives the best coaches more than money.

(03-09-2019 10:38 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The fiction some of you are maintaining is that Rice is a place that any coach would love to be, if the pay is right.

I think you know better.

It's not a fiction. It's a fact of life. People make their decisions based on multiple factors. One of those factors is what they want/where they want to be. Another factor is income/other financial incentives.

Most people try to balance all of the factors and make the best possible choice given their options. Usually, when you have more than one good option (in this case Langley staying at Rice with a nice pay raise vs. accepting a hypothetical offer from Enormous State University) there are things you like about each offer and you have to balance the good vs. the great of the different offers.

At least that is how I approach such decisions and I think most people would have a similar approach.

The point is that if she likes Rice but loves ESU, maybe the package of liking Rice with $$$$$ is one she would choose over loving ESU with $$$$. I don't know what her relative value system is in particular to money vs. "happiness" vs. status in the community. Unless you have talked to her you probably don't either.

Let's just drop the assumption that any of us know and focus on what we (Rice) can control.

(03-09-2019 10:45 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

It isn't a question of not being happy. It's a question of ambition and getting to the top, which is what drives the best coaches more than money.

I don't think it is just ONE thing that drives anyone. Ambition is one. Recognition in your field is one. Personal happiness is one. The affect on family is one. Geographical location/weather is one. Money is one. Length of contract is one. I could go on and on.

To assume ambition is the only thing that drives Coach Langley or any coach is an oversimplification.

I am hoping she wants to stay here at least one more year during the Mulkey era and see where she can build this program to. Increased success next year will lead to better offers, both financially and situationally.

OTOH, if she leaves, the team she leaves behind will be a great draw to get a top coach in here.

Moderators, can you please split this off into a "Future of Coach Langley" thread? I'm sure this will be an ongoing topic of discussion as we go through the postseason and into the off season.

(03-09-2019 10:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am hoping she wants to stay here at least one more year during the Mulkey era and see where she can build this program to. Increased success next year will lead to better offers, both financially and situationally.

OTOH, if she leaves, the team she leaves behind will be a great draw to get a top coach in here.

I agree.

I fully expect our AD to be working on a contract extension with a substantial pay raise. I also fully expect him to be looking at possible replacement coaches "just in case." There is no reason to NOT be prepared for any possible outcome. If we can see the situation on the horizon then he should be able to see it too.

I will be very disappointed if Coach Langley leaves. I will be angry if we appear to be unprepared for her departure.

(03-09-2019 10:50 AM)TFW Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:45 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:37 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  It's up to her, not Rice. It's her life.

What if she doesn't want to stay?

If she truly, truly doesn’t want to stay, then I hope she moves on. Seriously. If she isn’t happy, then fine.

My point is, we should make it as hard as possible for her to say “yes” to Penn State from a financial perspective.

It isn't a question of not being happy. It's a question of ambition and getting to the top, which is what drives the best coaches more than money.

I don't think it is just ONE thing that drives anyone. Ambition is one. Recognition in your field is one. Personal happiness is one. The affect on family is one. Geographical location/weather is one. Money is one. Length of contract is one. I could go on and on.

To assume ambition is the only thing that drives Coach Langley or any coach is an oversimplification.

I'm not assuming anything. It's a fact that most really good coaches keep moving on up and are not going to stop at a mid-major if they get a shot at the big time. Coaches like Wayne Graham, who are both very good and very happy to stay at a small mid-major, are very rare. Is Langley one of those coaches? Maybe - I hope so. Statistically improbable, though.

(03-09-2019 10:54 AM)TFW Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 10:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am hoping she wants to stay here at least one more year during the Mulkey era and see where she can build this program to. Increased success next year will lead to better offers, both financially and situationally.

OTOH, if she leaves, the team she leaves behind will be a great draw to get a top coach in here.

I agree.

I fully expect our AD to be working on a contract extension with a substantial pay raise. I also fully expect him to be looking at possible replacement coaches "just in case." There is no reason to NOT be prepared for any possible outcome. If we can see the situation on the horizon then he should be able to see it too.

I will be very disappointed if Coach Langley leaves. I will be angry if we appear to be unprepared for her departure.

The angry part - I agree.

The disappointed part - somewhat. As I said, I am hoping for one more year. But we have spent years in the football and baseball threads saying how we wanted our coaches to be coveted by other programs, and now we have one. We have to survive the cycles of losing coaches/hiring better ones until we become a coaching destination

She would be taking a big risk going to Penn State so soon. Krista McKinney, the most successful coach at Rice, jump ship and went to Clemson and was a complete flop. She owes the players to stay at least till next year. There will be plenty of opportunities in the future if she has the patience.

(03-08-2019 10:17 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:14 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 08:12 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I’d agree if we were talking football.

We can do more than keep up with Penn State in women’s hoops if we have the institutional will.

That's pink elephant level delusion.

At Rice, a reasonable goal is to make the tournament; at Penn State, a reasonable goal is to win a national championship.

BIG difference.