The WCC seems like the number two Western basketball conference these days.
Makes me wonder if private non football schools have an advantage over public schools .
I will check out an occasional game from each of these conferences.
Seems like the WCC has full exciting game day atmospheres with smaller arenas.
The MWC games seem half empty less lively crowds.
I don't watch enough of them to really know though.
The MWC arenas are twice as big seems like they would dominate the WCC.

Gonzaga is really good. The next best school is USF (San Francisco) and they got thumped by Gonzaga. So the gap is massive. So massive in fact that a 2nd bid is far from certain. They beat a horrible Cal and a not very good Stanford team and a equally uninspiring BYU, and losing to Gonzaga by 30. The over under is probably about 1.5 and then under looks a lot better than 50-50. BYU and St. Mary's are about the same level. (too bad the USF vs ASU game got cancelled, looking back they needed that ... or not if they would have been hammered)

That tells you remove Gonzaga and there is not much else, maybe a couple NIT teams.

That of course is why the MWC wanted to poach Gonzaga, and why they were tempted before the WCC threw them a far larger share of tournament money to keep them.

Nevada is the best team in the MWC, senior laden, but while better than the 2nd-4th in both MWC and WCC, they are not close to Gonzaga. The question is are Utah State, Fresno State and San Diego State any different than USF, SMC and BYU? Maybe maybe not.I think they are all in that same mediocre NIT level range. But I think the MWC 1.5 over under for NCAA bids is more likely to be over than under (if nothing else it's not implausible one of those 3 schools knock off the Wolfpack in the MWC Tourney.)

The bottom teams of both conferences are terrible, but that is nothing new.

I find it hard to say conference A is stronger than conference B based on a single school. That is why some power ranking methods throw out the top and the bottom school. In these two conferences cases we are not talking about schools, after the top one, which have more than a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of pulling a first round upset; they just plain lack the talent.

One conference is 8th in RPI, the other is 16th. My Chicago State Cougars are in a better league.

The WCC is a decent league. About on par with the MWC IMO most years. BYU and St. Mary's are usually better.

MWC usually have 5 or 6 teams with 20+ wins a season.

A few years back the MWC got five bids.
The WCC conference probably has had more bids since that year.
St. Mary's was a solid two BYU solid three the WCC is actually down this year.
Nevada has taken SDSU place as the MWC big dog.
The problem is UNM loses to NMSU regularly now and is down.
UNLV has been average to below average they used to be great.
Utah ST and Colorado St are playing below historical levels.
When you look at mid majors it seems like the small private schools have an advantage.
Gonzaga , Butler, Loyola the list goes on for good basketball schools.
With gyms and students bodies that are usually half to a fourth as big.
Creighton , Butler and Xavier got golden tickets to a power conference even.
Cincinnati could get a Big 12 spot and Xavier would still be an equal in basketball.
Gonzaga is number one in all of the West last ten years.
St Mary's is close to any other mid major last five six years.
I know a definitive answer is impossible but seems like private schools have an advantage in basketball.
When their at least equal and are smaller have much smaller arenas.

Add BYU, Gonzaga, and NMSU to the MWC and you have a pretty great conference.

St. Mary's and BYU are a little down this year; but, San Francisco and San Diego are up. I believe this is the first time ever that the WCC has had 5 teams in the Kenpom top-100.

#3 - Gonzaga
#45 - St. Mary's
#49 - San Francisco
#73 - BYU
#92 - San Diego

The new WCC schedule format is great. The better teams play more games against each other and fewer against the dregs.

(02-20-2019 01:52 PM)YNot Wrote:  St. Mary's and BYU are a little down this year; but, San Francisco and San Diego are up. I believe this is the first time ever that the WCC has had 5 teams in the Kenpom top-100.

#3 - Gonzaga
#45 - St. Mary's
#49 - San Francisco
#73 - BYU
#92 - San Diego

The new WCC schedule format is great. The better teams play more games against each other and fewer against the dregs.

Nevada 17
USU 32
Frersno St 63

Some random privates
Wofford 27
Furman 55
Belmont 64
Liberty 66

MWC is just having a down year. Still they are the #2 conference in the west behind the PAC-12.

The WCC is the better conference this year, but I'd still take the MWC over the WCC in the long run. Frankly, I feel the WCC is boring. Gonzaga has won the regular season title every year except 1 since 1998 and have won 16 out of the last 20 WCC tournaments.

The WAC has a 6-3 record versus the MWC this season. In both conference NET rankings and conference RPI rankings, the MWC is #15 and the WAC is #16.

With the Duke loss to UNC tonight, Gonzaga will become the #1 ranked team in the country next week, assuming they beat Pepperdine and BYU in the next few days.

(02-20-2019 05:42 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  MWC is just having a down year. Still they are the #2 conference in the west behind the PAC-12.

It's not even up for debate. When's the last time Pepperdine, Portland, San Francisco, Marymount or Santa Clara even approached the NCAA's? When Marymount choked to Adam Morrison and crew in the '06 title game?

I watched Utah State tonight and have seen several San Francisco and St. Mary's games. Utah State looks much better than those teams.

Right now if I'm betting, Gonzaga is a lock, Nevada a near lock, and Utah State a very likely at-large.

Bottoms of the conferences still suck. My alma mater is embarrassing. They don't even try anymore.

(02-20-2019 12:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga is really good. The next best school is USF (San Francisco) and they got thumped by Gonzaga. So the gap is massive. So massive in fact that a 2nd bid is far from certain. They beat a horrible Cal and a not very good Stanford team and a equally uninspiring BYU, and losing to Gonzaga by 30. The over under is probably about 1.5 and then under looks a lot better than 50-50. BYU and St. Mary's are about the same level. (too bad the USF vs ASU game got cancelled, looking back they needed that ... or not if they would have been hammered)

That tells you remove Gonzaga and there is not much else, maybe a couple NIT teams.

That of course is why the MWC wanted to poach Gonzaga, and why they were tempted before the WCC threw them a far larger share of tournament money to keep them.

Nevada is the best team in the MWC, senior laden, but while better than the 2nd-4th in both MWC and WCC, they are not close to Gonzaga. The question is are Utah State, Fresno State and San Diego State any different than USF, SMC and BYU? Maybe maybe not.I think they are all in that same mediocre NIT level range. But I think the MWC 1.5 over under for NCAA bids is more likely to be over than under (if nothing else it's not implausible one of those 3 schools knock off the Wolfpack in the MWC Tourney.)

The bottom teams of both conferences are terrible, but that is nothing new.

I find it hard to say conference A is stronger than conference B based on a single school. That is why some power ranking methods throw out the top and the bottom school. In these two conferences cases we are not talking about schools, after the top one, which have more than a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of pulling a first round upset; they just plain lack the talent.

I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

My overall ranking of generally Western conferences:

1. PAC (clear #1)
2. MWC (clear #2)
3. BIG WEST (academics are solid and economically sound with strong athletic representation)
4. BIG SKY (good football with decent basketball; stable in its current form)
5. WCC (it’s really just Gonzaga and BYU; both of which are flight risks)
6. WAC (entry-level conference with deadweight)

(02-22-2019 12:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  My overall ranking of generally Western conferences:

1. PAC (clear #1)
2. MWC (clear #2)
3. BIG WEST (academics are solid and economically sound with strong athletic representation)
4. BIG SKY (good football with decent basketball; stable in its current form)
5. WCC (it’s really just Gonzaga and BYU; both of which are flight risks)
6. WAC (entry-level conference with deadweight)

Current Conference Net Ranking for Western Conferences:
#7 - PAC-12
#9 - WCC
#15 - MWC
#16 - WAC
#22 - Big West
#27 - Big Sky

The WAC was #16 in RPI in 2018 and #17 in 2017. They are obviously not the worst western conference. The Big Sky is the worst, with the Big West just ahead. The WCC and MWC flip each year. The MWC is not the clear #2. Gonzaga is not a flight risk and neither is BYU. Why would Gonzaga leave the WCC?

(02-22-2019 01:46 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 12:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  My overall ranking of generally Western conferences:

1. PAC (clear #1)
2. MWC (clear #2)
3. BIG WEST (academics are solid and economically sound with strong athletic representation)
4. BIG SKY (good football with decent basketball; stable in its current form)
5. WCC (it’s really just Gonzaga and BYU; both of which are flight risks)
6. WAC (entry-level conference with deadweight)

Current Conference Net Ranking for Western Conferences:
#7 - PAC-12
#9 - WCC
#15 - MWC
#16 - WAC
#22 - Big West
#27 - Big Sky

The WAC was #16 in RPI in 2018 and #17 in 2017. They are obviously not the worst western conference. The Big Sky is the worst, with the Big West just ahead. The WCC and MWC flip each year. The MWC is not the clear #2. Gonzaga is not a flight risk and neither is BYU. Why would Gonzaga leave the WCC?

My rankings were not intended to be basketball-only or year-specific which the NET rankings are.

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga is really good. The next best school is USF (San Francisco) and they got thumped by Gonzaga. So the gap is massive. So massive in fact that a 2nd bid is far from certain. They beat a horrible Cal and a not very good Stanford team and a equally uninspiring BYU, and losing to Gonzaga by 30. The over under is probably about 1.5 and then under looks a lot better than 50-50. BYU and St. Mary's are about the same level. (too bad the USF vs ASU game got cancelled, looking back they needed that ... or not if they would have been hammered)

That tells you remove Gonzaga and there is not much else, maybe a couple NIT teams.

That of course is why the MWC wanted to poach Gonzaga, and why they were tempted before the WCC threw them a far larger share of tournament money to keep them.

Nevada is the best team in the MWC, senior laden, but while better than the 2nd-4th in both MWC and WCC, they are not close to Gonzaga. The question is are Utah State, Fresno State and San Diego State any different than USF, SMC and BYU? Maybe maybe not.I think they are all in that same mediocre NIT level range. But I think the MWC 1.5 over under for NCAA bids is more likely to be over than under (if nothing else it's not implausible one of those 3 schools knock off the Wolfpack in the MWC Tourney.)

The bottom teams of both conferences are terrible, but that is nothing new.

I find it hard to say conference A is stronger than conference B based on a single school. That is why some power ranking methods throw out the top and the bottom school. In these two conferences cases we are not talking about schools, after the top one, which have more than a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of pulling a first round upset; they just plain lack the talent.

I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

Portland State and Long Beach State don't really make sense here. Not sure Hawaii does either, but I guess NMSU doesn't want to be the only public school.

One other thing worth considering is fan support. In 2017 (I couldn't find the 2018 report), the MWC was 7th in attendance with teams averaging 6,456 per game, one spot behind the PAC 12. WCC was a distant 11th, averaging 3,946. And if you take out BYU, who averages 14,000+, the WCC drops to about 2,700, 16th place overall.

UNLV, SDSU, UNM, Fresno, Boise, Utah St, and Nevada all finished within the top 100 teams attendance wise. Air Force and San Jose State both pull under 2k, which brings the conference averages as a whole down.

Just BYU and Gonzaga are in the top 100 in attendance.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...d/2017.pdf