This doesn’t “upset” me in the least. Dumb ad, stupid marketing ploy IMO, we’ll see how well it sells outside of Manhattan, Austin and Beverly Hills.
It’s more the consistent, persistent, perpetual carpet bombing of this kind of crap that makes me wonder it’s collective effect on our kids and yes, our young men and their outlook on life, pursuits, how they conduct themselves and view themselves.
Esp. With the crisis of often no men being in kids lives at all these days. I think this stupid ad would have been better used/focused on that major, cultural issue than trying to further neuter the handful of Dads still in there trying to do things the right way.
But, of course, we know THAT would never happen...
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 10:37 AM by JMUDunk.)
Another point about the 'Toxic Masculinity' subject, that the social justice types like to ignore...
I read the other day that something like 42% of boys are raised by a single woman.
Something like 80% of school teachers are female.
Women are the primary ones raising and influencing these young men. Almost have have 100% female influence at home, and 80% female influence at school. There are no men in their lives. You can't blame this one on men when men aren't even in the equation.
You don't fix the problem of a drowning person by handing them a glass of water. You can't raise boys to be strong respectable men by removing and demonizing men in their lives.
Toxic masculinity, if it really exists, isn’t the problem... its a symptom. The lack of true masculinity and lack of men raising raising boys properly is.
But the social order will refuse to acknowledge that men can be a positive force in the world. So they will keep refusing to look at the problem, and continue to blame men for the problem. Besides admitting this would be admitting that women can't raise a boy properly, and that would go against he narrative that women are the best at everything.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 10:55 AM by q5sys.)
(01-18-2019 10:53 AM)q5sys Wrote: Toxic masculinity, if it really exists, isn’t the problem... its a symptom. The lack of true masculinity and lack of men raising raising boys properly is.
IMO, that's the entire point of the ad. Encourage other men to be a better example, and if you have boys of your own, raise them properly (i.e., don't let some of this behavior slide as 'that's just how guys are.') That's why I say saying this ad is an "attack on men" or "attack on masculinity" is ridiculous - it's not saying masculinity is toxic - it's saying that there are some behaviors that have been waved off as just part of "being a man" that are toxic.
I do agree that lack of a GOOD male role model in their lives certainly affects boys. If the only men they see behave in this aggressive, demeaning way, that's what they'll model. That's why it's important as the ad shows for men to speak up against it and expect better of their peers.
(01-18-2019 10:02 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: What does “in this culture” even mean? Are men oppressing women more in this culture than others?
Women can’t rise to the top? Do they have to follow us by 10 steps when we go on walks together? Are they not allowed to drive? Must wear head coverings and can’t go for a swim when and where they’d like?
How many on here has actually even HEARD a “catcall”? Truthfully.
Me? Likely downtown DC circa 1982 or so on some fenced off construction site.
No, this propaganda isn’t attacking that kind of “bad behavior”, it’s attacking boys and the men raising them to be men as well.
I think I’ll give up on it, and likewise insist my wife forget about our daughter learning to act as a “lady”.
Maybe she can dye her dreads purple, get all tatted up and live in a tent city. You know, live the good life.
You don't get out much if you don't hear men cat-calling women. Seriously.
I said this in the other post, but the ad is not an "attack on men" or "attack on masculinity" - it's not saying masculinity is toxic - it's saying that there are some behaviors that have been waved off as just part of "being a man" that are toxic.
As an example on the flipside, there's a difference between teaching your daughter to act like a "lady" and expecting her to defer to men in her work and education, as norms in the past have been.
TOXIC masculinity demands that the man be heard over her - that's how it was, that's how they want it to continue to be.
REAL men respect her and her views/thoughts as an equal.
(01-18-2019 10:53 AM)q5sys Wrote: Another point about the 'Toxic Masculinity' subject, that the social justice types like to ignore...
I read the other day that something like 42% of boys are raised by a single woman.
Something like 80% of school teachers are female.
Women are the primary ones raising and influencing these young men. Almost have have 100% female influence at home, and 80% female influence at school. There are no men in their lives. You can't blame this one on men when men aren't even in the equation.
You don't fix the problem of a drowning person by handing them a glass of water. You can't raise boys to be strong respectable men by removing and demonizing men in their lives.
Toxic masculinity, if it really exists, isn’t the problem... its a symptom. The lack of true masculinity and lack of men raising raising boys properly is.
But the social order will refuse to acknowledge that men can be a positive force in the world. So they will keep refusing to look at the problem, and continue to blame men for the problem. Besides admitting this would be admitting that women can't raise a boy properly, and that would go against he narrative that women are the best at everything.
It goes against an even more core claim by the feminists. Not only does the male child not fare well in the home of a single woman, but it also screams that the child fares best with the nurture of a mother and the guidance of a father in a nuclear, traditional family model, which just happens to be a truth that they simply don't want to acknowledge.
It gets back to the issue that anything that smacks of traditional morality (a husband and wife) is anathema to their whole paradigm.
(01-18-2019 10:02 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: What does “in this culture” even mean? Are men oppressing women more in this culture than others?
Women can’t rise to the top? Do they have to follow us by 10 steps when we go on walks together? Are they not allowed to drive? Must wear head coverings and can’t go for a swim when and where they’d like?
How many on here has actually even HEARD a “catcall”? Truthfully.
Me? Likely downtown DC circa 1982 or so on some fenced off construction site.
No, this propaganda isn’t attacking that kind of “bad behavior”, it’s attacking boys and the men raising them to be men as well.
I think I’ll give up on it, and likewise insist my wife forget about our daughter learning to act as a “lady”.
Maybe she can dye her dreads purple, get all tatted up and live in a tent city. You know, live the good life.
You don't get out much if you don't hear men cat-calling women. Seriously.
I said this in the other post, but the ad is not an "attack on men" or "attack on masculinity" - it's not saying masculinity is toxic - it's saying that there are some behaviors that have been waved off as just part of "being a man" that are toxic.
As an example on the flipside, there's a difference between teaching your daughter to act like a "lady" and expecting her to defer to men in her work and education, as norms in the past have been.
TOXIC masculinity demands that the man be heard over her - that's how it was, that's how they want it to continue to be.
REAL men respect her and her views/thoughts as an equal.
(01-18-2019 10:02 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: What does “in this culture” even mean? Are men oppressing women more in this culture than others?
Women can’t rise to the top? Do they have to follow us by 10 steps when we go on walks together? Are they not allowed to drive? Must wear head coverings and can’t go for a swim when and where they’d like?
How many on here has actually even HEARD a “catcall”? Truthfully.
Me? Likely downtown DC circa 1982 or so on some fenced off construction site.
No, this propaganda isn’t attacking that kind of “bad behavior”, it’s attacking boys and the men raising them to be men as well.
I think I’ll give up on it, and likewise insist my wife forget about our daughter learning to act as a “lady”.
Maybe she can dye her dreads purple, get all tatted up and live in a tent city. You know, live the good life.
You don't get out much if you don't hear men cat-calling women. Seriously.
I said this in the other post, but the ad is not an "attack on men" or "attack on masculinity" - it's not saying masculinity is toxic - it's saying that there are some behaviors that have been waved off as just part of "being a man" that are toxic.
As an example on the flipside, there's a difference between teaching your daughter to act like a "lady" and expecting her to defer to men in her work and education, as norms in the past have been.
TOXIC masculinity demands that the man be heard over her - that's how it was, that's how they want it to continue to be.
REAL men respect her and her views/thoughts as an equal.
A real man doesn't take a knee, show weakness, overshare emotions, allow himself to be disrespected, walk away from his kids, or sit on his arse while collecting government assistance checks. As far as view and thoughts are concerned, it depends on the woman. Sometimes they are equal, sometimes they just aren't equal.
(01-18-2019 10:02 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: What does “in this culture” even mean? Are men oppressing women more in this culture than others?
Women can’t rise to the top? Do they have to follow us by 10 steps when we go on walks together? Are they not allowed to drive? Must wear head coverings and can’t go for a swim when and where they’d like?
How many on here has actually even HEARD a “catcall”? Truthfully.
Me? Likely downtown DC circa 1982 or so on some fenced off construction site.
No, this propaganda isn’t attacking that kind of “bad behavior”, it’s attacking boys and the men raising them to be men as well.
I think I’ll give up on it, and likewise insist my wife forget about our daughter learning to act as a “lady”.
Maybe she can dye her dreads purple, get all tatted up and live in a tent city. You know, live the good life.
You don't get out much if you don't hear men cat-calling women. Seriously.
I said this in the other post, but the ad is not an "attack on men" or "attack on masculinity" - it's not saying masculinity is toxic - it's saying that there are some behaviors that have been waved off as just part of "being a man" that are toxic.
As an example on the flipside, there's a difference between teaching your daughter to act like a "lady" and expecting her to defer to men in her work and education, as norms in the past have been.
TOXIC masculinity demands that the man be heard over her - that's how it was, that's how they want it to continue to be.
REAL men respect her and her views/thoughts as an equal.
Who’s “they”?
He sees this thing as man vs woman. They is man. He has taken a knee and picked a side in this fake fight.
I went to a strip club last year and there were definitely some cat calls.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 02:32 PM by EverRespect.)
(01-18-2019 02:31 PM)fsquid Wrote: I took a knee in my soccer game last week due to my knee popping out, do I have to mail in my man card or turn it in at an ACE hardware?
(01-18-2019 02:31 PM)fsquid Wrote: I took a knee in my soccer game last week due to my knee popping out, do I have to mail in my man card or turn it in at an ACE hardware?
There are those who would suggest that you should turn it in for playing soccer in the first place. I'm not one of them. More power to you.
(01-18-2019 02:31 PM)fsquid Wrote: I took a knee in my soccer game last week due to my knee popping out, do I have to mail in my man card or turn it in at an ACE hardware?
No but be careful out there as you get older playing sports like that. Not saying you are old though lol.
In related news, the Navy has fired a submarine captain for ordering up 10 prostitutes while in the Philippines. Comments on Navy discussion boards have been quite mixed, to say the least.
(01-18-2019 02:31 PM)fsquid Wrote: I took a knee in my soccer game last week due to my knee popping out, do I have to mail in my man card or turn it in at an ACE hardware?
No but be careful out there as you get older playing sports like that. Not saying you are old though lol.
(01-18-2019 02:31 PM)fsquid Wrote: I took a knee in my soccer game last week due to my knee popping out, do I have to mail in my man card or turn it in at an ACE hardware?
No but be careful out there as you get older playing sports like that. Not saying you are old though lol.
(01-18-2019 02:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: In related news, the Navy has fired a submarine captain for ordering up 10 prostitutes while in the Philippines. Comments on Navy discussion boards have been quite mixed, to say the least.
Yeah I think the cutoff is 7. Did he bring them Sub?
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Gillette Attacks Men and Masculinity.
