(12-05-2018 01:54 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 01:16 PM)VA49er Wrote:  OK, I'll play. So we get regime change in Saudi Arabia. Then what?

Then the left will complain about US imperialism.

The only winning move is not to play.

Is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist "not playing"?

(12-05-2018 02:13 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist "not playing"?

Who are you saying is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist? The Saudis, or the Americans?

(12-05-2018 02:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 02:13 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist "not playing"?

Who are you saying is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist? The Saudis, or the Americans?

Many Saudis and one particularly important American

(12-05-2018 02:46 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 02:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 02:13 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist "not playing"?

Who are you saying is openly lying and trying to cover up the dismemberment of a US resident and journalist? The Saudis, or the Americans?

Many Saudis and one particularly important American

OK, thank you.

I still think that the outrage surrounding this situation is ginned up Because Trump, not out of some self-righteous concern for the guy, his family, or the fact that he was a journalist. So maybe instead of going on an America-is-always-wrong apology tour, you start with a position of strength. And that position of strength includes not being dragged into internecine conflicts as some sort of world policeman.

And because I think that way, I know that any harsh measures taken against the Saudis would quickly be criticized by liberals as acting as world policeman..

Hence the only winning move is not to play.

(12-05-2018 10:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's what I don't understand. Why this time?

The Saudis and the Iranians have killed Christians for being Christians, women for being raped, some of them American citizens, not just residents. We did nothing. So why this one?

There is even a lot of information suggesting that Khashoggi is a bad guy--Muslim Brotherhood and so forth.

So why is this the one where we go ballistic?

Because...



and

Getting rid of MBS isn't exactly "regime change", but King Salman feels weak and thinks MBS can be his strong arm man. If you want the King to replace him you have to offer him an alternative he feels safe with from inside the royal family.

Regime change is not something we've done very successfully. Vietnam? No. Iran (we didn't make the change but we gave it a wink and a noid)? No, Iraq? No. Afghanistan? No. Not an impressive record.

(12-05-2018 01:16 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 01:08 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 10:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's what I don't understand. Why this time?

The Saudis and the Iranians have killed Christians for being Christians, women for being raped, some of them American citizens, not just residents. We did nothing. So why this one?

There is even a lot of information suggesting that Khashoggi is a bad guy--Muslim Brotherhood and so forth.

So why is this the one where we go ballistic?

Legal US resident, journalist with US citizen children who was critical of this and SA administrations winds up tortured and murdered in an embassy and President openly tries to lie for and cover for SA administration. And gets caught.

Sounds like perfect media storm material.

OK, I'll play. So we get regime change in Saudi Arabia. Then what? I have a feeling what replaces what is there now could be much worse.

Didn't we try that with the Shah and Iran? I wonder how that turned out.

We aren't going to screw up international relations over a Muslim Brotherhood member. Let the Turks and Saudis handle this one on their own.We can't start messing with every country that do bad things otherwise when will it stop.

Don’t hide from the truth. Don’t cover over the truth. Trump saying MSB May have he may have not. It’s totally the wrong message to send to everyone

(12-05-2018 02:13 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 02:02 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 01:18 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Shrug. Out of my wheelhouse to advocate for a regime change. I'll leave that to people with expertise/degrees in that field. I will say though that the current slap on the wrist this administration is giving (AT BEST) is not enough.

It doesn't take a PhD in international politics to know this administration royally blundered how they dealt with this.

This sums up the left's response. I don't know what should have been done differently, but whatever Trump did isn't enough.

What Trump himself did was moronic. What his administration is doing is not enough.

Do you want me to pretend I'm an expert in geopolitical diplomatic affairs and throw out some bull**** action of choice I regurgitated from a talking head? Because I can do that. Or I can be honest and I say I don't know what course of action is best but I can attest to disagreeing with the current modus operandi.

Great. I have no clue what should be done-but I’m positive what is/was done is insufficient..........but I can’t say what should be done.

Should we bomb the palace?? Kill the price? Cut off all economic activity? What’s good enough for you? What would meet with your approval??

(12-05-2018 06:07 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 02:13 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 02:02 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 01:18 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Shrug. Out of my wheelhouse to advocate for a regime change. I'll leave that to people with expertise/degrees in that field. I will say though that the current slap on the wrist this administration is giving (AT BEST) is not enough.

It doesn't take a PhD in international politics to know this administration royally blundered how they dealt with this.

This sums up the left's response. I don't know what should have been done differently, but whatever Trump did isn't enough.

What Trump himself did was moronic. What his administration is doing is not enough.

Do you want me to pretend I'm an expert in geopolitical diplomatic affairs and throw out some bull**** action of choice I regurgitated from a talking head? Because I can do that. Or I can be honest and I say I don't know what course of action is best but I can attest to disagreeing with the current modus operandi.

Great. I have no clue what should be done-but I’m positive what is/was done is insufficient..........but I can’t say what should be done.

Should we bomb the palace?? Kill the price? Cut off all economic activity? What’s good enough for you? What would meet with your approval??

that poor boy is a prime example why today's democrat is the epitome of tarnation...

#brainwashedregurgitation

(12-05-2018 10:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Here's what I don't understand. Why this time?

The Saudis and the Iranians have killed Christians for being Christians, women for being raped, some of them American citizens, not just residents. We did nothing. So why this one?

There is even a lot of information suggesting that Khashoggi is a bad guy--Muslim Brotherhood and so forth.

So why is this the one where we go ballistic?

I agree, Saudi Arabia is a stable nation, taking the Royal family out has head of state would most certainly cause some level of instability. Let the people of Saudi Arabia decide if it's time for regime change, the US should not involve itself in this decision.

I'm trying to figure out how someone that 90% of the world had never heard of, had ties to the former Saudi intelligence services & a Muslim Brotherhood proponent who isn't an American citizen is so important that the only way the mindless leftist drones will be satisfied would be if we took such drastic action that we push the country with a full fifth of the world's oil supply and the holiest spot of the world's largest religion into the sphere of influence of Russia.

What's especially ironic is the fact that the biggest leftist complainer in this thread blames Putin if he breaks a shoestring, yet he's here advocating us taking a hardline approach over something that doesn't involve the United States in any way whatsoever.

Don’t lie...... how hard is that??? Evidently too hard.

(12-05-2018 08:10 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Don’t lie...... how hard is that??? Evidently too hard.

Must be since you lied about using a message board as a source only once or twice.

(12-05-2018 06:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I'm trying to figure out how someone that 90% of the world had never heard of, had ties to the former Saudi intelligence services & a Muslim Brotherhood proponent who isn't an American citizen is so important that the only way the mindless leftist drones will be satisfied would be if we took such drastic action that we push the country with a full fifth of the world's oil supply and the holiest spot of the world's largest religion into the sphere of influence of Russia.

What's especially ironic is the fact that the biggest leftist complainer in this thread blames Putin if he breaks a shoestring, yet he's here advocating us taking a hardline approach over something that doesn't involve the United States in any way whatsoever.

There are things for which the hard decision to risk American lives is necessary. This is not one of them.

(12-05-2018 06:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I'm trying to figure out how someone that 90% of the world had never heard of, had ties to the former Saudi intelligence services & a Muslim Brotherhood proponent who isn't an American citizen is so important that the only way the mindless leftist drones will be satisfied would be if we took such drastic action that we push the country with a full fifth of the world's oil supply and the holiest spot of the world's largest religion into the sphere of influence of Russia.
What's especially ironic is the fact that the biggest leftist complainer in this thread blames Putin if he breaks a shoestring, yet he's here advocating us taking a hardline approach over something that doesn't involve the United States in any way whatsoever.

Dude, Orange man bad.

(12-05-2018 08:10 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Don’t lie...... how hard is that??? Evidently too hard.

What lie?

Trump will never allow the removal of his terrorist buddy.

(12-05-2018 11:08 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  Trump will never allow the removal of his terrorist buddy.

So you are in favor of pushing a fifth of the world's oil supply into the sphere of influence of Russia over a guy you didn't know existed until your leftist media overlords told you to be offended?