(11-20-2018 10:29 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 11:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:51 PM)Claw Wrote:  Your taxes will go up to pay for the civil war.

Rebellion was tried before...it failed...if we have the votes to do it, we will do it. If you'd like to commit treason or rebellion, I suppose that's up to you. But know that we're sick of violent threats from the right.

lol @ the hypocrisy.

It's not even funny at this point. Thinking like Tom's is just pathetic and smug.

(11-20-2018 10:11 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:44 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.
That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.
I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.
Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

I do to - but that's not the same a single payer as is being discussed by those on the left.
Governments generally suck and are terribly inefficient at whatever they attempt because their continued existence as an entity doesn't require them to be efficient and cost effective. Why anyone would think the government will be better is beyond comprehension..........remember the disaster of rolling out Obamacare - the website wouldn't even work for some time, or how about Vets getting their education GI Bill funds allocated on time.
We can go on and on listing where government is crappy at administering programs already in place - and we want to give them more power????

Right now, there is just talk... no plans have been laid out. Medicare for all is the closest thing I’ve seen mentioned.
I’d like to see a basic level of care and catastrophic care... covered through single payer and then cafeteria style private insurance to cover everything in between.

Bismarck is a basic level covered by private insurance plans paid for by government. Government goes to insurers, says I'll pay you, say, $2500 per capita next year, figure out what policy you can offer for that. They put competing basic policies out there and people make their choices. Then people are free to supplement via a cafeteria plan.

In French Bismarck, catastrophic is covered by government on essentially a single-payer basis. They keep costs down by paying for med school for people who agree to commit so many years to the "free" side and by providing malpractice coverage for docs.

(11-20-2018 10:31 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:29 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 11:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:51 PM)Claw Wrote:  Your taxes will go up to pay for the civil war.

Rebellion was tried before...it failed...if we have the votes to do it, we will do it. If you'd like to commit treason or rebellion, I suppose that's up to you. But know that we're sick of violent threats from the right.

lol @ the hypocrisy.

It's not even funny at this point. Thinking like Tom's is just pathetic and smug.

It truly demonstrates the power of the MSM. Some people simply can not think for themselves any longer.

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

(11-20-2018 09:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:51 AM)banker Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

And pray that if we get single payer that you don't need an knee replacement surgery.

Right...I hear there's never been a knee replacement surgery in a country with universal HC.

Until the costs of being everything to everyone start to spiral out of control.

That knee surgery will become the subject of scrutiny like "do you REALLY need surgery or can we get by with filling you full of pain killers".

If you can't raise prices, the option is to deny services.

(11-20-2018 10:50 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:51 AM)banker Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

And pray that if we get single payer that you don't need an knee replacement surgery.

Right...I hear there's never been a knee replacement surgery in a country with universal HC.

Until the costs of being everything to everyone start to spiral out of control.

That knee surgery will become the subject of scrutiny like "do you REALLY need surgery or can we get by with filling you full of pain killers".

If you can't raise prices, the option is to deny services.

This. Pills are cheap compared with surgery. Give them a wheelchair and a bottle of pills and push them out the door.

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Some surgeries can cost upwards of $800k or more.
Good luck with the out of pocket. If you require it, God forbid, the taxpayer will cover your costs.

(11-20-2018 09:59 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:51 AM)banker Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

And pray that if we get single payer that you don't need an knee replacement surgery.

Two months ago my mother had her hip replacement surgery denied by obamacare. I took out a loan to help cover the cost so she could have the surgery and be able to walk again.

As for the cancer comment. In the course of human history... cancer was a terminal condition. If you got it, you accepted it and dealt with it until you died.
Sure i'd like to life longer... but if I get cancer. I'm not going to run myself into the poor house just to die a year or two later. I'd rather live our my remaining life however I can, instead of doing the hospitals/Chemo shuffle.

How exactly did the ACA do this? Specifics please.

(11-20-2018 10:44 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:44 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:44 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

(11-20-2018 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:44 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-864024-post-15...id15683890

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:44 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

I'm sure the number is quite small, but the point is that they have that option if they choose. They also have the option to seek employment where a "better" plan is available.

I don't like the idea of government telling me THIS is your plan, if you don't like it, tough.

Options and competition are NEVER a bad thing.

(11-20-2018 12:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:44 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  Even those people still have the ability to opt out and acquire private insurance on their own if they wish. Forcing people into a "one size fits all" system eliminates ANY individual choice or say into their own health.

Not to mention, even Medicare requires people to purchase supplement policies because they don't cover everything or everything completely.

What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-864024-post-15...id15683890

Do you think between employee premiums, employer premiums and government payments there is not enough money in our current system to reallocate without raising costs for individuals?

(11-20-2018 01:10 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-864024-post-15...id15683890

Do you think between employee premiums, employer premiums and government payments there is not enough money in our current system to reallocate without raising costs for individuals?

What makes you believe this isn't just another take more from the payers and give to the non-payers in return for votes?? Another redistribution attempt, with of course the government eating up half of the money or more in administration costs.

Yeah, let's grow the federal government bigger.........because they do such a bang up job with everything now....

(11-20-2018 01:10 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-864024-post-15...id15683890

Do you think between employee premiums, employer premiums and government payments there is not enough money in our current system to reallocate without raising costs for individuals?

Another question isn't an answer. As was requested show your work.

Or admit you are just parroting a leftist talking point.

(11-20-2018 01:10 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What percentage of American's opt out of their employer provided healthcare plan so they can venture out into the open market and purchase their own plan?

We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-864024-post-15...id15683890

Do you think between employee premiums, employer premiums and government payments there is not enough money in our current system to reallocate without raising costs for individuals?

No. More access plus more comprehensive coverage plus less competition equals more money to fuel the single payer medicare system you propose. Wouldn't you agree that it's obvious?

Ok so someone tell me how with math you are going to get rid of Obamacare and the individual mandate and still ensure coverage for those with preexisting conditions like Trump and the rest of the GOP says?

(11-20-2018 01:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 01:10 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  We will provide the answer you desire just as soon as you provide the answer that was requested of you earlier in the thread.

What was that?

https://csnbbs.com/thread-864024-post-15...id15683890

Do you think between employee premiums, employer premiums and government payments there is not enough money in our current system to reallocate without raising costs for individuals?

Another question isn't an answer. As was requested show your work.

Or admit you are just parroting a leftist talking point.

It is just a leftist talking point to dupe the sheeple into thinking they will be getting something for nothing..........ie. - someone else will pay for it.

Bottom line - the tax paying American public will never go for it unless the left lies about it knowingly JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH OBAMACARE.

(11-20-2018 01:27 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Ok so someone tell me how with math you are going to get rid of Obamacare and the individual mandate and still ensure coverage for those with preexisting conditions like Trump and the rest of the GOP says?

Great question. Before this question is tackled, I'd like to hear from those who think medicare for all is doable; i.e., how will it be paid for? And...you must show your work.