You still haven't explained how you'd pay for it using simple math. We're waiting Tom with Talking Points. BTW even if you have the votes wouldn't Trump have to sign it in?

(11-19-2018 06:58 PM)Kronke Wrote:  Loony left Vermont went down this road, and scrapped it because they couldn't afford it. I think california is currently in the process of realizing the same thing.

gillum in Florida admitted he wouldn't be able to afford it, and wanted a "confederation of states" to come together to make it work, essentially admitting to a giant pyramid scheme where he steals taxpayer money from other states to pay for Floridians.

Exactly. You need hard working healthy people to basically pay punishingly confiscatory tax rates so the freeloader class can live well. Im good with the "free ride" heavy states setting up their own healthcare confederation so they dont screw up the hard working states. I like that idea. Within a decade all "free ride" confederation states will look a lot like downtown Detroit. Dilapidated and devoid of anyone seeking to excel.

Who is John Galt?


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(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

(11-20-2018 12:10 AM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Who is John Galt?


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Ayn Rand sucks. However, she does make a number of good points in her works. Atlas Shrugged is the worst offender in her works where she caricatured her characters to such an extreme that the reader is led to one conclusion - Objectivism is good...

Rand's fatal flaw is that zero people exist in this world who are "live and let live" type of people. Yesterday's oppressees typically become tomorrow's oppressors. Everyone wants to control the gov't to enforce their POV.

The MN government used to allow dealers to put license plate renewal tabs directly on your new car.
The MN government thought this was !Bad! so now the MN government send the tabs directly to the vehicle owner.

I received my tabs from the MN government two days after my temporary plate expired.

This is how the government will run single payer healthcare.

Health insurance is not the same as health care. Even if that single payer somehow passed care would not be readily accessible to all. You’d have the government system and then the rich who would have their own care outside the system. See congress as an example.

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

Yeah...so? Taxes would go up and your cost for health insurance would evaporate bigly and thousands of lives would be saved. Sign me up!

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

I do to - but that's not the same a single payer as is being discussed by those on the left.

Governments generally suck and are terribly inefficient at whatever they attempt because their continued existence as an entity doesn't require them to be efficient and cost effective. Why anyone would think the government will be better is beyond comprehension..........remember the disaster of rolling out Obamacare - the website wouldn't even work for some time, or how about Vets getting their education GI Bill funds allocated on time.

We can go on and on listing where government is crappy at administering programs already in place - and we want to give them more power????

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

(11-20-2018 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

And pray that if we get single payer that you don't need an knee replacement surgery.

(11-20-2018 09:51 AM)banker Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

And pray that if we get single payer that you don't need an knee replacement surgery.

Right...I hear there's never been a knee replacement surgery in a country with universal HC.

(11-20-2018 09:51 AM)banker Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:41 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

plot twist. I dont have a healthcase premium... because I dont have health insurance. So this would be a net loss for me.
When Obamacare came into being, it was going to cost me $800 a month for my premiums as a single unmarried male in his mid 30s.
F that... I'll bank that money myself and pay for my healthcare needs out of my pocket if I need them.
For emphasis... as an ex service member... I can go to the VA for free if I want. Gov run health care is so bad, that I opt out of my free option and pay out of my hard earned money when I need medical care.

Pray you don't get cancer...doubt you'll be able to bank enough money to pay for that!

And pray that if we get single payer that you don't need an knee replacement surgery.

Two months ago my mother had her hip replacement surgery denied by obamacare. I took out a loan to help cover the cost so she could have the surgery and be able to walk again.

As for the cancer comment. In the course of human history... cancer was a terminal condition. If you got it, you accepted it and dealt with it until you died.
Sure i'd like to life longer... but if I get cancer. I'm not going to run myself into the poor house just to die a year or two later. I'd rather live our my remaining life however I can, instead of doing the hospitals/Chemo shuffle.

The coming sugar and red meat taxes will help a lot.

(11-20-2018 09:44 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:27 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 07:59 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:05 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Your taxes would go up but your healthcare premium would go away... which would likely be a net gain.

The difference is that I choose where my money gets spent, who is my provider, and what coverage level works best for me.

That ISN'T an option when government takes my money for "healthcare" then deems what's best for me.

I should have the CHOICE.

The vast majority of Americans have employer provided insurance and do not have any say in who provides their insurance. Moving to a single provider for basic care would free up money for employer and employee, alike.

Here, I like Owl’s Bismark Plan.

I do to - but that's not the same a single payer as is being discussed by those on the left.

Governments generally suck and are terribly inefficient at whatever they attempt because their continued existence as an entity doesn't require them to be efficient and cost effective. Why anyone would think the government will be better is beyond comprehension..........remember the disaster of rolling out Obamacare - the website wouldn't even work for some time, or how about Vets getting their education GI Bill funds allocated on time.

We can go on and on listing where government is crappy at administering programs already in place - and we want to give them more power????

Right now, there is just talk... no plans have been laid out. Medicare for all is the closest thing I’ve seen mentioned.

I’d like to see a basic level of care and catastrophic care... covered through single payer and then cafeteria style private insurance to cover everything in between.

I think we've found the left's talking point.

(11-19-2018 11:26 PM)gdunn Wrote:  You still haven't explained how you'd pay for it using simple math. We're waiting Tom with Talking Points. BTW even if you have the votes wouldn't Trump have to sign it in?

There is no math. If there was actual math that worked you'd better bet they'd be blabbering about it all over this board. It's a talking point, nothing else.

(11-19-2018 11:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:51 PM)Claw Wrote:  Your taxes will go up to pay for the civil war.

Rebellion was tried before...it failed...if we have the votes to do it, we will do it. If you'd like to commit treason or rebellion, I suppose that's up to you. But know that we're sick of violent threats from the right.

lol @ the hypocrisy.